doctor_wu |
flail snail is non verbal and can find details in misfit monsters redeemed. Also drow have there own sign langauge darklnads languages
KnightErrantJR |
Hah, I found the reference about Absalom and hand signs. There was a feat in the original (3.5) campaign setting hardcover that talked about natives of Absalom using hand signs.
However, this wasn't so much a distinct language as a feat that made you good at teaching your companions a unique set of hand signs that gave them a competence bonus on your bluff checks to communicate hidden messages.
Every so often this comes up, and I remember it, but I don't think that feat or the tendency of people from Absalom to make up hand signs for the people that are "with them" has come up in any other products referencing Absalom. I could be wrong, but it seems like I always have to go back to the original campaign setting to find the reference.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
I always assume that a culture has a sign language developed by the hearing impaired or mute. These types of sign are more for those who have developed it, but in any large population the use of sign language would be wide spread enough that there would a unified language for that region. Not only that, but chances are there are enough similarities in the sign languages in neighboring areas that after about 20 minutes two people from different areas would be able to communicate decently with each other.
I feel it is safe enough to look at the real world for sign language when it comes to fantasy games. After all, unless the deaf is made to hear, or forced to deal with communication in some other way, sign language is a natural solution for communication.
In my own games, I allow players to learn regional sign languages if they want.
BUT to help you out in the way you want to be helped, here are some links!
James Jacobs speaks up here.
Someone else asked the same question.
James Sutter Contributor |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Seekers of Secrets talks about the complex system of Pathfinder hand signals taught in the Grand Lodge, and it's mentioned a number of times in Dave Gross's novels. That said, that's a created code rather than a natural language.
As folks have said, any time you have a number of deaf, mute, or hard-of-hearing folks in the same place, you're going to develop a natural sign language. I think it's safe to assume that there are such communities all over the Inner Sea region, and that while they are undoubtedly regional rather than universal (as is true in our own world), they probably have a relatively easy time bridging the gap.
And thanks for pointing out the flail snails! :D
\\@...
HappyDaze |
As folks have said, any time you have a number of deaf, mute, or hard-of-hearing folks in the same place, you're going to develop a natural sign language. I think it's safe to assume that there are such communities all over the Inner Sea region, and that while they are undoubtedly regional rather than universal (as is true in our own world), they probably have a relatively easy time bridging the gap.
I'd actually say that this wouldn't happen. Remove Blindness/Deafness is of low enough level that it's fairly commonplace. Enough so that significant numbers of deaf folk are not going to accumulate.
James Sutter Contributor |
James Sutter wrote:I'd actually say that this wouldn't happen. Remove Blindness/Deafness is of low enough level that it's fairly commonplace. Enough so that significant numbers of deaf folk are not going to accumulate.As folks have said, any time you have a number of deaf, mute, or hard-of-hearing folks in the same place, you're going to develop a natural sign language. I think it's safe to assume that there are such communities all over the Inner Sea region, and that while they are undoubtedly regional rather than universal (as is true in our own world), they probably have a relatively easy time bridging the gap.
All depends on the magic level of your game, and the prevalence of clerics (especially altruistic ones). Magic or not, poor is still poor, and there are plenty of easily curable diseases and afflictions in the real world that go untreated for assorted social or financial reasons. But how far you twist that utopia/dystopia knob is all up to the GM!
W E Ray |
This came up in our game this weekend.
We've ruled that one can spend a Skill point in Linguistics to learn the sign language as if it were another language such as undercommon or giant.
We briefly discussed it over the gaming table, whether sign language for undercommon would be different from sign language for giant.
That's where we struggled and I was asked to ask on the Boards what other Paizonians felt.
What do you guys think?
Judy Bauer |
We briefly discussed it over the gaming table, whether sign language for undercommon would be different from sign language for giant.
That's where we struggled and I was asked to ask on the Boards what other Paizonians felt.
What do you guys think?
I would guess that they would be distinct and not mutually unintelligible, just like real sign languages that arose separately (like American Sign Language and British Sign Language).
Just curious, though—by "sign language for undercommon" do you mean Sakvroth, the drow sign language, or quite literally the common sign language of the Darklands? This distinction doesn't change what I said above, but might impact whether that is a regular sign language or uses tactile signing. Sakvroth is likely a regular sign language since drow have darkvision, but a sign language used in total darkness by creatures that lack darkvision would likely make use some form of tactile signing—in which case, only adjacent creatures can use it to communicate (and there may also be fun flavor effects regarding what counts as acceptable personal space and physical contact in social situations etc.).
W E Ray |
@ Judy,
We were not talking about Sakvroth -- this group still plays in Greyhawk. We're just talking about generic D&D sign language. We did, however, talk about the Menzoberranzen sign language and the Pathfinder Society sign language.
The one point I made in our conversation was that what exists in sign language in real life should have no bearing on our game decision, just like real life physics, for example, shouldn't affect how we interpret spell descriptions or how real life history shouldn't affect D&D women in heavy armor. It should only matter about game balance.
As a result, I'm more in favor of D&D sign language being a universal or "common" language, not individual "giant sign language" and "undercommon sign language." But I would have no problem with a DM who additionally included a specific sign language or two such as Sakvroth. BUT, no more than a couple, too many languages makes having any one language stronger, not to mention sometimes harder to play.
And we certainly don't want to encounter the fiasco that Innuendo turned out to be back in 3.0.
Thomas LeBlanc RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |