Lakesidefantasy |
Inspired by this thread I thought it might be nice to compile a list of all possible potions.
Here are all the 1st level wizard spells suitable as potions. I’m not sure about hypnotism and sleep. These two spells affect creatures within an area. One surprise is magic missile.
Endure Elements
Hold Portal
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Shield
Grease
Mage Armor
Comprehend Languages
True Strike
Enchantment
Charm Person
Hypnotism?
Sleep?
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Disguise Self
Magic Aura
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Animate Rope
Enlarge Person
Erase
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall
Jump
Magic Weapon
Reduce Person
Feel free to join in, or point out any mistakes I’ve made.
Does this list already exist somewhere?
Lakesidefantasy |
Thanks for the heads-up.
I went back through the list of core 1st level wizard spells and divided the ones that qualify into three groups: potions, oils and cursed. Potions work on the imbiber, oils are applied to objects, and cursed potions are harmful to the imbiber.
POTIONS
Endure elements
Protection from evil
Mage armor
Enlarge person
Feather fall!
Jump
Reduce person
OILS
Hold portal
Grease
Shocking grasp?
Magic aura
Animate rope
Erase
Feather fall!
Magic weapon
CURSED
Charm person!
Hypnotism?
Sleep?
Magic missile?
Shocking grasp
Cause fear
Chill touch
I'm not sure if hypnotism, sleep, and magic missile actually qualify, but if magic missile does qualify it would be very comical to see someone drink it.
Charm person is funny because you charm yourself. Feather fall is problematic because you typically don't have time to drink it.
I also don't know how shocking grasp would work as an oil, but it might make a good splash weapon.
Some of the oils are interesting. Hold portal could be useful. Grease might make a good splash weapon. And, erase could really ruin a wizard's day.
All-in-all this is an interesting exercise.
ZomB |
A charm person potion has to be the best anti-depressant ever. Be your own trusted friend. ;-)
Its also great for low self esteem or for giving yourself super confidence. Write down what you want to do but are doubtful of, then drink the potion while holding the note. Your trusted friend (you) will view the contents of the note very favourably and carry it out.
A shame it only lasts an hour and a has a low saving throw!
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
Maldollen |
I'm not sure if hypnotism, sleep, and magic missile actually qualify, but if magic missile does qualify it would be very comical to see someone drink it.
I'd say yes to Magic Missile, but no to Hypnotism and Sleep, neither of which meet the potion criteria of "targeting one or more creatures or objects", as they have no "Target", only an "Area." Area spells are cast not on a creature or object, but at an area of space.
I've been compiling similar data for a random treasure generator I'm building, and I agree that there are some very odd results for "valid" potions.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
"It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects."
I have been under the impression that personal range spells don't qualify for potions. Is that correct? Those seem to target one creature, even it is yourself.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
All possible potions document. I can add people to the list of accepted editors if I am given a gmail email. I really don't want to add this to my several projects, but this discussion has me interested enough to put some effort into completing a list.
edit: the list is by no way correct, as all I did was use my own spell guide spread sheet to remove personal range spells, spells that were above level 3, and any spell that didn't have a specified target.
Maldollen |
"It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects."
I have been under the impression that personal range spells don't qualify for potions. Is that correct? Those seem to target one creature, even it is yourself.
Correct, "personal" spells cannot be made into potions. This rule is found in the magic item creation rules
The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.
All ingredients and materials used to brew a potion must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each potion. (Economies of scale do not apply.)
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing a potion can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing a potion requires 1 day.
The problem with Sleep and Hypnotism is they don't target a creature or object, but an area. The affect creatures, but do not "target" them. The spell must have a "Target" line in the descriptor to qualify.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
I just used Hero Lab to compile a list. Below the 3rd level spells is a list of spells that came up when I used my spread sheet but didn't qualify according to Hero Lab. If I find time, or I need a break from other projects I will double check those spells, but others can do that as well and post here about it.
Question: If a spell have a range of Close, Medium, or Long but still targets someone, can it be a potion? I know rays can't be potions, but what about other distance spells?
Lakesidefantasy |
Thanks for the list Caleb. This gives us an idea of how many potions we should expect to find.
I agree that hypnotism and sleep don't qualify, but considering the witch spell beguiling gift, magic missile could be cool and useful.
Here is the list of 2nd level spells wizard spells.
POTIONS:
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Invisibility
Magic Mouth!
Blur
Misdirection
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Darkvision
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Levitate
Owl's Wisdom
Spider Climb
OILS
Arcane Lock
Obscure Object
Continual Flame
Darkness
Shatter
Invisibility
Magic Mouth
Misdirection
Phantom Trap
Knock
Pyrotechnics
Rope Trick
CURSED
Daze Monster
Hideous Laughter
Touch of Idiocy
Shatter!
Blindness/Deafness
Command Undead!
Ghoul Touch
Scare
When I think about it, these are a lot like 4th edition rituals.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
Lakesidefantasy |
"Potion" also covers oils, which are used by coating something. Maybe you could have an oil of "magic mouth" or "shatter" and use those by coating what you want affected.
This raises a question of if oils could be thrown to use their effects. Missing would be expensive, so I would recommend it.
You could drink a potion of magic mouth and stipulate that the mouth activate your catching cape when someone fires an arrow at you. You can get a free swift action that way.
What fun.
Lakesidefantasy |
Here are all the 3rd level wizard potions and oils. Some really good stuff here but expensive.
A potion of dispell magic could save your butt. Again, suggestion is useless like charm person. Halt undead only works if you can get an undead to drink it. Maybe you could force them to drink it with a grapple check. Vampiric touch is interesting because it turns hit points into temporary hit points.
POTIONS
Dispel Magic
Nondetection
Protection from Energy
Tongues
Heroism
Rage
Displacement
Invisibility Sphere
Fly
Gaseous Form
Haste
Water Breathing
OILS
Dispel Magic
Explosive Runes
Nondetection
Daylight
Illusory Script
Gentle Repose
Flame Arrow
Keen Edge
Magic Weapon, Greater
Shrink Item
CURSED
Hold Person
Suggestion
Halt Undead
Vampiric Touch!
Slow
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
CalebTGordan wrote:"Potion" also covers oils, which are used by coating something. Maybe you could have an oil of "magic mouth" or "shatter" and use those by coating what you want affected.
This raises a question of if oils could be thrown to use their effects. Missing would be expensive, so I would recommend it.
You could drink a potion of magic mouth and stipulate that the mouth activate your catching cape when someone fires an arrow at you. You can get a free swift action that way.
What fun.
I wouldn't allow that at my table. I am pretty sure it shouldn't work like that.
Derwalt |
...hmmm, I think that with spells like Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch, which are touch-attack spells where you can hold the charge, I would say that the person drinking the potion has done the same as cast the spell - and is now holding the charge of said spell. Then all the normal rules for touch attacks and holding/dissipating the charge would take effect. I think this would eliminate a lot of weirdness, and I would guess this could very well be RAI.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
So after asking in the rules section, I have discovered that you cannot throw oils and expect them to work. It takes a standard action to apply oil to an object or a full-round action to apply oil to yourself or a willing person. Attacks of opportunity are provoked as well. This pretty much makes it seem as if you need to have the oil evenly applied over as much area as you can, so splashing it on wouldn't work.
Awesome interpretation Derwalt. I would probably allow that at my table, though the would only have one touch attack. I do agree that there is some weirdness with some of these qualifying spells, but for the most part ignoring those weird spells seems to be the best solution.
Lakesidefantasy |
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I agree with Derwalt that allowing potions of touch spells to target creatures touched by the imbiber would help eliminate some of these strange harmful and recursive potions like shocking grasp and charm person. On the other hand, many, if not most, of these potions have a range of touch, like bull's strength and darkvision, and that doesn't really present a problem if imbibers want to drink the potion and transfer the effects to a creature touched, but this would require a special exemption for or a reinterpretation of the way cure light wounds potions work (probably the most used potion in the game). Because cure light wounds has a range of touch, an imbiber could drink the potion then heal a dying comrade or even attack an undead enemy.
I agree some of these potions don't make any sense, but I don't think invoking RAI helps because I suspect developers never intended some of these spells to be made into potions. At this point I'm just going to put these problem harmful and recursive potions into a special category "cursed" to point out that they are problematic.
This project was inspired by a thread where someone pointed out that even if a potion of fireball were legal the imbiber would be the target of the spell.
Lakesidefantasy |
Lakesidefantasy wrote:I wouldn't allow that at my table. I am pretty sure it shouldn't work like that.CalebTGordan wrote:"Potion" also covers oils, which are used by coating something. Maybe you could have an oil of "magic mouth" or "shatter" and use those by coating what you want affected.
This raises a question of if oils could be thrown to use their effects. Missing would be expensive, so I would recommend it.
You could drink a potion of magic mouth and stipulate that the mouth activate your catching cape when someone fires an arrow at you. You can get a free swift action that way.
What fun.
You're right Caleb. I misread the spell description as stating that the mouth can (rather than cannot) utter command words. However, you could drink the potion before going to bed and have the mouth shout an alarm if anyone approaches closer than 5 ft. while you're sleeping. That would be cool,albeit expensive, since alarm doesn't qualify as a potion.
Maldollen |
...hmmm, I think that with spells like Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch, which are touch-attack spells where you can hold the charge, I would say that the person drinking the potion has done the same as cast the spell - and is now holding the charge of said spell. Then all the normal rules for touch attacks and holding/dissipating the charge would take effect. I think this would eliminate a lot of weirdness, and I would guess this could very well be RAI.
Potion rules are very clear about this--the imbiber is both the caster and the target of the spell, so no holding the charge.
Lakesidefantasy |
So after asking in the rules section, I have discovered that you cannot throw oils and expect them to work. It takes a standard action to apply oil to an object or a full-round action to apply oil to yourself or a willing person. Attacks of opportunity are provoked as well. This pretty much makes it seem as if you need to have the oil evenly applied over as much area as you can, so splashing it on wouldn't work.
Awesome interpretation Derwalt. I would probably allow that at my table, though the would only have one touch attack. I do agree that there is some weirdness with some of these qualifying spells, but for the most part ignoring those weird spells seems to be the best solution.
Thanks for getting an answer to this question Caleb. I'm going to link to it here because I think it is a valuable conversation considering what we're doing here.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
Lakesidefantasy |
Below is a list of all core 0th level wizard cantrips that qualify as potions and oils.
At some point during this exercise I believe we will find a spell (or two)that qualifies as a potion but is completely unsuitable as such. The "cursed" harmful and recursive potions get close to this but have so far not been much of a problem. However, some of these cantrip potions and oils are very problematic.
POTIONS
Resistance
Detect Poison!
Bleed!
Message?
Prestidigitation?
OILS
Detect Poison!
Light
Mage Hand?
Open/Close!
Prestidigitation?
CURSED
Daze
Touch of Fatigue
Prestidigitation?
Detect poison is cool as it is kind of like a litmus test for poison. A bleed potion would need to be trickled down a dying creature's throat, and in that case you might just want to perform a coup de gras.
Message brings up this whole issue of the the imbiber as the target of the spell brewed into the potion, because message allows the imbiber to point to creatures and allow them to receive whispered messages even though they did not drink the potion. (Invisibility sphere has a similar effect.) Does message work as a potion or can you just hear your own messages?
Mage hand targets an object and so is an oil, but it seems to work best as a potion that is imbibed. Maybe as an oil you could coat a sword and then step back and cause it to float via telekinesis and impress the local villagers. In a similar way if you're spending time spreading an oil of open/close over a door you might as well open or close it the door while your at it.
Prestidigitation, as an oil it can act as laundry soap, or food spices, or temporary dye, as a potion it could warm your belly or turn your head blue.
spalding |
Inflict spells are healing potions for undead, and also exceptionally good magical poisons. When you drink a potion, you auto-fail the save if I recall correctly.
That makes drinking offensive potions bad, bad juju. :P
Um... this is the first I've ever heard such a thing -- not saying you are wrong but I would love to know where that is in the book (whichever one it is in).
Lakesidefantasy |
Ashiel wrote:Um... this is the first I've ever heard such a thing -- not saying you are wrong but I would love to know where that is in the book (whichever one it is in).Inflict spells are healing potions for undead, and also exceptionally good magical poisons. When you drink a potion, you auto-fail the save if I recall correctly.
That makes drinking offensive potions bad, bad juju. :P
Are you reefering to the auto-failed save bit?
Ashiel |
Yes -- exactly to the auto-failure bit for potions.
I said if I recall correctly. I don't think I did. I went and double checked some stuff, and as best as I can tell, there is no mention of effects of saving throws in potions, and the only time saving throw and spell resistance is ignored with spells is if you willingly lower them, or the spell has a target of "You".
However...
This means that you get a saving throw to resist most spells found in potions. Even healing spells allow saving throws, but most people voluntarily give up their saving throw. Which makes an inflict spell swapped for a cure spell possible; since they are going to forgo their saving throw when drinking it, because they believe it to be something beneficial.
So if an assassin slipped some potions of inflict serious wounds into a box of cure potions, you might end up with some dead people on your hands. :P
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
As has been stated (but I'm not sure if people noticed), the potion rules state:
The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect
So if you drink a potion of inflict serious wounds expecting to be able to poke someone in the eye with it afterwards, you're in for a nasty surprise.
To point out another gem in the list:
Grab an oil of invigorate and give your local barbarian a nice shoulder rub!
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
It takes a standard action to apply oil to an object or a full-round action to apply oil to yourself or a willing person.
I don't know who told you this, but it's incorrect. Drinking a potion or applying an oil is a standard action unless you're applying it to an unconscious creature.
It's right there in the rules.
CalebTGordan RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
CalebTGordan wrote:It takes a standard action to apply oil to an object or a full-round action to apply oil to yourself or a willing person.I don't know who told you this, but it's incorrect. Drinking a potion or applying an oil is a standard action unless you're applying it to an unconscious creature.
It's right there in the rules.
This is why I need to stop posting at 3am in the morning.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Jiggy wrote:This is why I need to stop posting at 3am in the morning.CalebTGordan wrote:It takes a standard action to apply oil to an object or a full-round action to apply oil to yourself or a willing person.I don't know who told you this, but it's incorrect. Drinking a potion or applying an oil is a standard action unless you're applying it to an unconscious creature.
It's right there in the rules.
Well, anyway, given that applying an oil to a conscious creature is a standard action anyway, I'd let you attempt to smear it on a foe. Of course, the action provokes anyway, and since they're unwilling you'd need to succeed on a touch attack to get it onto them, so it might not be a great idea unless they're flat-footed. (Hm, possibly a good use of vanish or the ninja's Vanishing Trick...)
If you miss... Hm, I guess I'd have to say you lose the oil (dumped onto the floor where they had been standing).
Lakesidefantasy |
After a careful reading of the rules I realized that only spells that target one or more creatures qualify as potions. Thus far I have been categorizing spells that target objects as oils and spells that target creatures as potions (which can also be made into oils). This is convenient because all we have to do is eliminate all spells categorized as oils in the above lists to correct this mistake.
Lakesidefantasy |
Here is a list of all core cleric spells that qualify as potions.
CORE CLERIC 0th
POTIONS
Detect Poison
Guidance
Resistance
Stabilize!
Virtue
CURSED
Bleed!
CORE CLERIC 1st
POTIONS
Cure Light Wounds
Endure Elements
Hide From Undead
Protection From Evil
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Shield of Faith
CURSED
Cause Fear
Doom
Inflict Light Wounds
RECURSIVE
Command
CORE CLERIC 2nd
POTIONS
Aid
Bear’s Endurance
Bull’s Strength
Cure Moderate Wounds
Delay Poison
Eagle’s Splendor
Gentle Repose!
Owl’s Wisdom
Remove Paralysis!
Resist Energy
Lesser Restoration
Silence
Undetectable Alignment
CURSED
Hold Person
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Shatter!
RECURSIVE
Death Knell!
Enthrall
Shield Other
Status
CORE CLERIC 3rd
POTIONS
Animate Dead?
Cure Serious Wounds
Dispel Magic
Magic Circle Against Evil
Protection From Energy
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Water Breathing
Water Walk
CURSED
Bestow Curse
Blindness/Deafness
Contagion
Inflict Serious Wounds
Magic Circle Against Evil!
One very problematic spell here is death knell. It technically qualifies as a potion but it doesn't work. If you have negative hit points, and you are still conscious (it can happen), drinking this potion will kill you and give you temporary hit points, but those temporary hit points won't help you because you are dead. This is a recursive potion and I think it is the first one that breaks the potion rules as written.
Other interesting potions are stabilize and bleed; both require that you be dying (and hence most likely unconscious) to use them.
Gentle repose and remove paralysis are both impossible for the imbiber to administer to themselves.
I categorized both shatter and Magic circle against evil (inward version) as cursed potions because they do bad things to the imbiber.
Finally, I am curious as to whether an animate dead potion could be poured down a dead man's throat (this bears on gentle repose as well) since the rules state that one can use a full round action to carefully pour a potion down the throat or spread an oil over an unconscious person's body.
Lakesidefantasy |
Here are the core druid spells that qualify as potions.
DRUID CORE 0th
POTIONS
Detect Poison
Guidance
Resistance
Stabilize
Virtue
DRUID CORE 1st
POTIONS
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Endure Elements
Hide From Animals
Jump
Magic Fang
Pass Without Trace
RECURSIVE
Charm Animal
DRUID CORE 2nd
POTIONS
Barkskin
Bear’s Endurance
Bull’s Strength
Cat’s Grace
Delay Poison
Owl’s Wisdom
Reduce Animal
Resist Energy
Restoration, Lesser
Spider Climb
CURSED
Hold Animal
RECURSIVE
Animal Messenger
Animal Trance
DRUID CORE 3rd
POTIONS
Cure Moderate Wounds
Magic Fang, Greater
Neutralize Poison
Protection From Energy
Remove Disease
Water breathing
CURSED
Contagion
Poison
RECURSIVE
Dominate Animal
Nothing really interesting here concerning problematic potions. Mostly we run into recursive animal enchantments since the imbiber, the animal, is also the effective caster.
Lakesidefantasy |
Here are the core wizard spells that qualify as potions.
WIZARD CORE 0th
POTIONS
Resistance
Detect Poison!
Bleed!
Message?
Prestidigitation?
CURSED
Daze
Touch of Fatigue
Prestidigitation?
WIZARD CORE 1st
POTIONS
Endure elements
Protection from evil
Mage armor
Enlarge person
Feather fall!
Jump
Reduce person
CURSED
Charm person!
Hypnotism?
Sleep?
Magic missile?
Shocking grasp
Cause fear
Chill touch
WIZARD CORE 2nd
POTIONS:
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Invisibility
Magic Mouth!
Blur
Misdirection
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Darkvision
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Levitate
Owl's Wisdom
Spider Climb
CURSED
Daze Monster
Hideous Laughter
Touch of Idiocy
Shatter!
Blindness/Deafness
Command Undead!
Ghoul Touch
Scare
WIZARD CORE 3rd
POTIONS
Dispel Magic
Nondetection
Protection from Energy
Tongues
Heroism
Rage
Displacement
Invisibility Sphere
Fly
Gaseous Form
Haste
Water Breathing
CURSED
Hold Person
Suggestion
Halt Undead
Vampiric Touch!
Slow
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
After a careful reading of the rules I realized that only spells that target one or more creatures qualify as potions. Thus far I have been categorizing spells that target objects as oils and spells that target creatures as potions (which can also be made into oils). This is convenient because all we have to do is eliminate all spells categorized as oils in the above lists to correct this mistake.
Technically, a spell that targets an object can be made into a potion... it just can't be drunk by an object. ;)
Can an enlarge person potion be used to dispel a reduce person spell?
I don't see why not. Drinking the potion means you're effectively having the spell cast on you, so if you're already affected by reduce person, I presume the enlarge person would dispel it as normal.
Archaeik |
I've been off and on browsing this thread...
Seems like it's worth noting that Metamagics can be combined into potions if it doesn't increase it past 3rd level.
So, MM + toppling
any damaging L1 + sickening
persistent *might* be worthwhile
curious if bouncing has any interesting uses...
I'm sure there's some others, like intensify if you're already crafting these with a higher caster level
Are you working on a list for summoner spells? They sneak a few things in otherwise unavailable...