Scorpion Whip and Sneak Attack


Rules Questions


Whip Definition

"The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).

Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon."

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I wanted to make a ninja and use the scorpion whip. Can you use sneak attack with it?


Yes, provided the target is flat-footed or flanked by you.


I don't know why you couldn't - you wouldn't be able to flank (without a couple of the whip fighting feats, I think), but otherwise it'd be like using any ranged melee (thrown) weapon in terms of when SA would apply


Short answer, yes. Long answer, like others say flanking with a whip requires special feats or some other means of threatening, thus making sneak attack harder to achieve. Mind you when you get those feats it gets very interesting.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Short answer, yes. Long answer, like others say flanking with a whip requires special feats or some other means of threatening, thus making sneak attack harder to achieve. Mind you when you get those feats it gets very interesting.

Just for curiosity what feats?


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You do not need to threaten in order to flank. You only need to make a melee attack against someone who is threatened on the opposite side.

Flanking: "When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner."

Are you making a melee attack with the whip? Yes.

Is the opponent threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or corner? Yes.

Then you get the +2 flanking bonus, and you can sneak attack.

That said, there are two weapons that are both called Scorpion Whip.

Scorpion Whip from the Adventurer's Armory is awesome. It's a whip that deals lethal damage even to creatures with armor bonuses, has a better die, and shares proficiency with the whip.

Sean K Reynolds (Developer) says about it: "A scorpion whip uses the same rules as the whip in the PFRPG Core Rulebook, except (1) it deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses, and (2) the stats in the table."

The Scorpion Whip Gladiator Weapon from Ultimate Combat is a confusing mess.

James Jacobs (Creative Director) says about it: "if you're proficient with a whip, you can use a scorpion whip. Doesn't mean you can use a scorpion whip to do all the things a whip can do, though... just what a scorpion whip can do."

Which I think means the (UC) scorpion whip doesn't have reach, trip, or disarm. It's also Light instead of One-handed.

This Thread has some FAQ requests, if anyone is interested.


Grick wrote:
You do not need to threaten in order to flank. You only need to make a melee attack against someone who is threatened on the opposite side.

Agreed. The confusion comes from the rarity of being able to make a melee attack into a space you do not otherwise threaten.

It is worth noting that while you do get the advantages of having flank, you do not provide a flank for your ally.

The Improved Whip mastery feat is probably something to look into.


Nicos wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Short answer, yes. Long answer, like others say flanking with a whip requires special feats or some other means of threatening, thus making sneak attack harder to achieve. Mind you when you get those feats it gets very interesting.
Just for curiosity what feats?

Well Grick is right, you can flank without threatening, you just dont give flanking to your ally. But you would still want the whip mastery line of feats from ultimate combat if you are going to be a whip specialist.

Either that or if you use 3rd Party Material I recommend highly the blasksnach archtetype from the supergenius games guide to Martial Archetypes.

In the end they offer similar things, not provoking attacks of opportunity, being able to deal lethal damage, threatening (including at reach) with the whip. But the archetype if you can use it offers somewhat more then just the 3 feats, and it is far more flexible. It is also not dependant on your bab, which is aboon for non-full bab characters like a bard, or inquisitor.

Scarab Sages

what about a standard whip against an armored foe do you get sneak attack damage if your base weapon does nothing?


Benjamin kitiyakara wrote:
what about a standard whip against an armored foe do you get sneak attack damage if your base weapon does nothing?

Maybe? You wouldn't do any damage and you wouldn't get the benefit of any rider effects (like bleed or poison or any of the crit feats) but conceivably, there might be some benefit you could get. I can't think of any off the top of my head.


A normal whip against an armoured foe deals no damage, Whether you deal 1 damage or 100. Sneak attack just adds to your damage. It doesn't change any other aspects of that damage.

If, for example, the whip did 10 less damage against armoured foes, then sneak attack would help you get past that limit.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Only certain weapons can add sneak attack to non-lethal damage, isn't that the issue?

The whip isn't a sap?


James Risner wrote:

Only certain weapons can add sneak attack to non-lethal damage, isn't that the issue?

The whip isn't a sap?

No. Sneak attacks can be made with any weapon designed to do nonlethal damage. They just can't do nonlethal damage if the weapon isn't made for it.

Scarab Sages

Correct. So if you have the blade of mercy trait as a 5th level knife master rogue, and you use a kukri to do non-lethal damage on a sneak attack, you will do 1d4+1 non-lethal + 3d8 lethal.

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