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Books you would like to see rewritten by Paizo


Paizo Publishing General Discussion

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The books I would most like to see Paizo's take on are the Epic Level Handbook and Deities&Demigods.

I would also like to see a psionics book, though subtracting the spellpoint mechanic which it seems most Paizo devs are either not fond of or actively dislike, the psionic classes would be best done as archetypes for other classes. (Psion/Wilder->Sorcerer, Erudite->Wizard, Psychic Warrior->Paladin, Soulknife->Rogue)

Others have mentioned Magic of Incarnum, and while the incarnum classes are interesting from a mechanic standpoint of turning your body into a magic item, the flavor of incarnum was never particularly appealing to me. It strikes me that something similar would be best done as archetypes of Monk or Druid.


In order

1) Epic/Mythic/Legendary, whatever you want to call it but +20 campaign stuff.

2) Librum Mortus, whatever the name of that book was. Mostly I'd like to see a White Necromancer.

3) Tome of Magic. In particular the Shadowcaster. It was an interedting concept if not executed as well as it should have been. Though Paisley did make a Summoner class and that was 1/3 the book right there.

Grand Lodge

I liked the concept of savage progressions from Savage Species. (Good GM's guide to creating weaker version of common monsters.) And I was disappointed that so little of the actual book was given over to them. I'd love to see Paizo actually do something with that concept.

Andoran

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Beckett wrote:


DJEternalDarkness wrote:
For me it's exactly because of things like this thread, or the Ask James Jacob thread. They have people who listen and respond.
As did Wizards?

You mean like 4E? LOL!

Let's face it. I LOVE Pathfinder... but if WotC had done with 4E D&D what we wanted, we would have had D&D SAGA and Paizo probably would be a 3PP, like so many others during the d20 era.

What Paizo has done has been amazing, and all because they DID listen to their customers.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I think each company listened to different customers, personally.

It would be weird if WoTC made a game without thinking it was what people wanted, wouldn't it?


As far as Magic of Incarnum and the Tome of Battle are concerned, I think they're fine the way they are. I just wish my players would take an interest in them. The upcoming Ultimate Equipment will probably suit me as far as a Magic Item Compendium goes, though I'd love to see the items given "levels" to better help deciding what doodads to give to who. And Ultimate Races will be a good substitute for Savage Species, I think.

I would like to see the following Paizo-ized, however:

Tome of Magic
Rules Compendium
Spell Compendium (even going back as far as 2e with the Wizard's and Cleric's Spell Compendiums. There were some awesome spells in those old tomes).
The 2e Magic Item Compendiums
The Epic Level Handbook

That's all I can think of for now.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
As far as ... the Tome of Battle [is] concerned, I think they're fine the way they are. I just wish my players would take an interest in them.

If they do, you'll be sorry! At least if they have a single min-maxing bone in their body, you will. Holy crap that book has the most broken stuff of any book put out by WoTC.

I allow it in my game, because I allow all official WoTC material, but the ToB maneuvers really make gameplay difficult for a poor GM. That and the crazy Wild Shape feats are the two main things that make life difficult.


Probable:
Psionics
Rules Compendium
Spell Compendium
Epic Level

Improbable:
Greek Campaign Setting (various third parties)
Egyptian Campaign Setting (various third parties)
Modern/Future
Licensed Campaign Settings (AGoT, Conan, Star Wars, etc)

Near impossible:
Greyhawk
Forgotten Realms
Dark Sun
Ravenloft
Etc.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It'll never happen, for reasons already stated by others, but I can dream of a Paizo take on Magic of Incarnum. I've been rereading my copy of MoI recently, and while I love the basic mechanical concept, boy, did they ever miss the ball on the fluff side of things. "I draw upon the secret power of souls to... give myself this rockin' new scarf?" Again, I know it'll never happen, but we've seen how Paizo's redeemed some of the goofier monsters of editions past - I can only imagine how they'd redeem an abandoned subsystem with equally-goofy lore attached.

While I'm a massive fan of psionics in my games, I'm actually not that eager to see a Paizo psionics book. While I have no doubt that Paizo would do the concept justice, 3.5 psionics have already found worthy custodians in the Dreamscarred people, who seem genuinelly passionate about their work.


I'd like to see a "pocket" edition of the core rules. Minimal artwork, no fluff, just the rules as we need them. It would supplement the core rulebook, and be a lot handier on the gaming table than the coffee-table monster.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
pachristian wrote:
I'd like to see a "pocket" edition of the core rules. Minimal artwork, no fluff, just the rules as we need them. It would supplement the core rulebook, and be a lot handier on the gaming table than the coffee-table monster.

This. Well not exactly this (I'm not a fan of the whole "pocket book" thing), but something a heck of a lot like this.

I remember when the WoTC Rules Compendium came out. I especially remember thinking "what a stupid idea, I already have all the rules" ... until it came out.

Then I realized how truly awesome it was. Slim, nothing but rules, well organized, and all those pesky clarifications and updates in a single, well-indexed volume.

To heck with Pathfinder 2.0; I love Pathfinder as it is (not to say I agree with every single rule, but who does?), something like this could very well become the only book many GMs need at a table.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
pachristian wrote:
I'd like to see a "pocket" edition of the core rules. Minimal artwork, no fluff, just the rules as we need them. It would supplement the core rulebook, and be a lot handier on the gaming table than the coffee-table monster.

Might I suggest SORD PF? Yeah, it's probably a lot more compact than you were thinking, but it does a remarkably good job of distilling the Pathfinder system down to about 40 pages.


Masks of Nyarlathotep.

It may sound an odd suggestion, but its one of the greatest campaigns ever published for *any* game system, and would fit perfectly into Golarion ... A murdered pathfinder expedition you say?

Maybe as an adveture path...

Andoran

SAVAGE TIDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
csdershem wrote:
SAVAGE TIDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The contact e-mail for Wizards of the Coast Legal and Intellectual Property Department is ...


DJEternalDarkness wrote:
Honestly, aside from the Incarnum, I'd love to see a re-write of Tome of Magic with updated Shadowmage and the Pact mages.

We're not Paizo, but we've got half of your wish covered. ^_~

Sort of, at least.

Linky Linky.


Something like Cry Havoc combined with Heroes of Battles. I'd like to see a more detailed mass combat system than the one included in Kingmaker.


TheLastBaron wrote:
Something like Cry Havoc combined with Heroes of Battles. I'd like to see a more detailed mass combat system than the one included in Kingmaker.

I just want a mass battle system that doesn't demand a high dollar calculator, slide ruler, and a spell to resurrect Pythagoras to understand and implement.


Ha! I'm looking for exactly that kind of mass combat system, actually. Well, maybe not THAT detailed. But pretty detailed. I'm a dedicated wargamer, so that would be right up my alley.


I really thought "Cry Havoc" was just too complicated. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not have a mind for mathematics and it just confused the crap out of me. Maybe "Cry Havoc" was easy compared to others? I've not seen any other rules sets for mass combat for 3.5/Pathfinder though, so I dunno.

Shadow Lodge

TheLastBaron wrote:


Ha! I'm looking for exactly that kind of mass combat system, actually. Well, maybe not THAT detailed. But pretty detailed. I'm a dedicated wargamer, so that would be right up my alley.

Best mass-combat system for a fantasy RPG I've ever seen was in the BECMI edition of D&D (can't quite remember which set it was in). It's also in the Rules Cyclopedia, and the free Dark Dungeons retro-clone.


Kthulhu wrote:
Best mass-combat system for a fantasy RPG I've ever seen was in the BECMI edition of D&D (can't quite remember which set it was in). It's also in the Rules Cyclopedia, and the free Dark Dungeons retro-clone.

Thanks! Downloaded and ready to be read!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Best mass-combat system for a fantasy RPG I've ever seen was in the BECMI edition of D&D (can't quite remember which set it was in). It's also in the Rules Cyclopedia, and the free Dark Dungeons retro-clone.
Thanks! Downloaded and ready to be read!

If you have any Q's about Dark Dungeons, be sure to do ask 'em here. You'll be able to get a response directly from the author.

Shadow Lodge

BOED/BOVD
Incarnum
Tome of Battle
Tome of Magic
Book of Templates
Magic Item Compendium
And probably others

That said, most of my games are PF/3.5 hybrids using PF rules and all the resources my players have at hand, so other than adjusting some skills and feats and such my group uses this stuff already =)

I would still like to see Paizo's take on the concepts, even if legal issues prevent them from redoing the exact books. A book or two on what Good and Evil truly mean? I'll take it, especially if it's more coherent than the previous, and nothing about that concept is copyrighted.

A book that gives martial characters options that put them on par with casters? YES PLEASE! I've DMed for a couple Crusaders and a whole bunch of Swordsages and found them no more powerful than a well-built Wizard.

I'd like to see someone else's take on the Goetia, and a proper - and FUNCTIONAL - skill-based caster in the vein of the Truenamer. Shadowcaster... meh.

And more templates and interesting non-Big Six magic items all around please =D


zagnabbit wrote:
Drejk wrote:
zagnabbit wrote:
I don't buy that anyone would be happy with an updated TOB or Warlock class. Those classes were beyond "power creep" they were "power jumps". Paizo versions would be so radically toned down that they'd be unrecognizable.
Warlock toned down? It wasn't overpowered in 3.5, quite contrary it was quite unimpressive - it worked as one-trick specialist or even better as opponent when it could rely on very small selection of abilities but to be a decent PC class in Pathfinder it would need powering up.

Now see I found it to be quite powerful in it's own way.

The class was surprisingly lackluster in a 15 minute adventuring day. Not so in a "running of the gauntlet".

It sniped better than an archer

It blasted better than a sorcerer

It required very few feats, with very little trade off decisions.

It got a very limited number of SLAs, but it got the best ones;
Unlimited flight
Unlimited invisibility
Unlimited dispel magic, with a damaging secondary
Unlimited dimension door, with a decoy left behind
Unlimited Evard's Black Tentacles

He self healed
He almost auto checked on UMD
He got material based DR

I found it to be a very strong class
While it lacked the versatility of a full caster, it was exceptional at what it did.
Again it depended on the game, but in a game where there were multiple encounters, he could full out everytime.

I felt the Swordsage was similar in it's superiority to combat casters for similar reasons. Not that this was necessarily a bad thing.

The Warlock was a strong class at even low levels if you only compared to how many times you could use magic per day. But otherwise at low levels the class was really weak.

Like all spell casting classes, it got far stronger the more you leveled up in the class & depending on what skills/feats you choose.

With the way i played my first and only Warlock, by the time i had played it to epic levels (25th level) there was only two creatures in existance that weren't god's who could even give my character a hard time. The gear my character had was for the most part made by my own character (which i love how in pathfinder it no longer cost's experience to make most magic item's) under DM's approval. Getting gold wasn't hard cause dragons weren't rare in my DM's world but they were super strong (stronger than the books version by 20+ levels) & having a touch attack ment all i had to beat was their spell resistance if they were immune to acid damage.

So in the long run Warlock's did turn out far stronger if you only focused on how to cover up the character's defenses to the point they were either hard to hit or took no damage.

But for the most part i think the class was balanced out well by how limited the choices were in the Invocation's list that were for Warlocks. If they had allowed you to make new invocations through having your character study like a wizard could, then i would have considered the class far too strong.


I know this has been mentioned already but the Epic Level Handbook would be amazing!

Shadow Lodge

Tom Sawyer


I wish Paizo could do 2 books from 3.0 and 3.5 edition of Dungeons & Dragons. Those two books being Epic Level Handbook and Complete Arcane.

The reasons being is I like to adventure characters beyond 20th level and sometimes use them in other campaigns I DM so the Epic Level Handbook would be a great addition.

I'd also like them to redo the Complete Arcane handbook cause my favorite class has been a Warlock so far and after buying and checking out the 3rd party publishers that have tried to make a Warlock for the pathfinder settings I have to say they didn't really hold up the Warlock's true abilities.

But there is the issue of WoTC to deal with unfortunately.


I want books in the spirit of the Rules Compendium and Spell Compendium. Follow that up with some sort of Ultimate Classes that includes all the classes and feats from across the Pathfinder line.

Qadira

csdershem wrote:
SAVAGE TIDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ This. I'd like to see old Paizo adventures get upgraded into Pathfinder.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
kevin_video wrote:
csdershem wrote:
SAVAGE TIDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^ This. I'd like to see old Paizo adventures get upgraded into Pathfinder.

Not gonna happen, WotC property.

Qadira

Gorbacz wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
csdershem wrote:
SAVAGE TIDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^ This. I'd like to see old Paizo adventures get upgraded into Pathfinder.
Not gonna happen, WotC property.

I'd figured on that. Still though, something close. Even if they released web enhancements of what changes you could make. Unofficially, perhaps. Side hobby project.

Shadow Lodge

With WotC venturing back into PDF publishing, who knows? They might make the final issues of Dungeon and Dragon available at some point. They might even put together their own PDF compilations of the 3.5 Dungeon APs. It would be pretty easy for Shackled City, as I understand it, WotC retained the rights to the files used to create the hardcover compilation of that AP...they could simply convert to PDF and throw it on OneBookShelf. Age of Worms and Savage Tide would take a bit more layout work, but the potential for profit above what would needed to put the layout together would seemingly make this a no-brainer.

Cheliax

I applauded Paizo for making the new systems in the APG like:
creating your own eidolon
weak at will abilities of the which, like the warlock but better
the inquisitor judgement, like Martial Stances from Book of Nine Swords, though BO9S was better
Alchemist/rogue/ninja discoveries/tricks

But I would really like to see innovative subsystems again. I loved BO9S, Psionics, Incarnum, Tome of Magic(OK, maybe just like that one).

I was really looking forward to Paizo's MIC but feel they really dropped the ball on it. Next to no reasonable cost interesting items. Next to no swift action items(same goes for spells).


A few of the things I would love to see:
Psionics Handbook,
Legends & Lore (for mythic gods and unique mythic monsters),
Epic Level Handbook,
Book of Vile Darkness (but Golarion specific),
Arabian Adventures (also Golarion specific).

Shadow Lodge

Psionics Handbook - Dreamscarred Press has psionics in Pathfinder pretty much locked up...Paizi has expressed a profound lack of interest in doing psionics, and if they ever do put out psionics rules, I doubt it will be much more than a psionics sorcerer bloodline or two. seriously, waiting for the official Paizo psionics is stupid at this point. Just get the Dreamscarred psionics book when it comes out.

Legends & Lore + epic Level Handbook - Mythic Adventures should scratch this itch.


Kthulhu wrote:

Psionics Handbook - Dreamscarred Press has psionics in Pathfinder pretty much locked up...Paizi has expressed a profound lack of interest in doing psionics, and if they ever do put out psionics rules, I doubt it will be much more than a psionics sorcerer bloodline or two. seriously, waiting for the official Paizo psionics is stupid at this point. Just get the Dreamscarred psionics book when it comes out.

Legends & Lore + epic Level Handbook - Mythic Adventures should scratch this itch.

Well...although Paizo probably will never do a update of the old psionic rules, they probably will develop some sort of psychic magic system that doesn't use a point system. At the very least a few of the developers have suggested it will happen.

Shadow Lodge

MMCJawa wrote:
Well...although Paizo probably will never do a update of the old psionic rules, they probably will develop some sort of psychic magic system that doesn't use a point system. At the very least a few of the developers have suggested it will happen.

Like I said...expect a psionic sorcerer bloodline at some point. Expecting more than that is, in my less than humble opinion, setting yourself up for failure.

Silver Crusade

1. Epic
2. Ravenloft
3. more shadow magic


Kthulhu wrote:
Like I said...expect a psionic sorcerer bloodline at some point. Expecting more than that is, in my less than humble opinion, setting yourself up for failure.

If they keep publishing rule books every year they are bound to start looking at the more niche things like this to fill the space.

The advantage of having psionics in the pathfinder product line is that it can then be integrated with other products like adventures and gazetteers.
I don't imagine there will be a dedicated psionics handbook though, but it might be bundled together with some other new classes or rules.

Silver Crusade

golem101 wrote:
A book about implementing war in actual play and not in some abstract sub-system (Heroes of Battle).

Ultimate Campaign is supposed to address this in detail.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

shamrock13 wrote:
3. more shadow magic

Have you checked out Shadowsfall: Shadow Plane Player's Companion? It has new shadow spells in it as well as other shadow-related character options.


I'm honestly impressed they're giving even two pages of content to young characters. Most RPG games ignore children entirely.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Been said more than once but: something like Lords of Madness and I would certainly second a Libre Mortis clone (was that the name?) Those were two of my favorite books from WotC. Unfortunately, some of my favorite monsters are not open content...
M

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Huh. I guess there really isn't anything I'd like to see them rewrite.

Qadira

I think the Core book does a great job providing the rules so I'm not a big fan of more rule books (like a Rules Compendium). However, having a Spell Compendium book that puts all the spells from Core, Ultimates and other Pazio pubs. and rewrites the spells that have issues would be desirable.


I think a Epic Level Book would be the greatest addition to the pathfinder books

Andoran

Book of Erotic Fantasy. Because these dirty fanfics ain't gonna write themselves :P.*

On a more serious note, I'd love to see something like The Binder Class from The Tome of Magic, maybe using voudoun-ish themes (BEcause the way they work is quite similar), and I'd also love a book like Heroes of Horror addressing mechanics for the metaphysical stain of evil (Hopefully with a less giggle-worthy name than Taint this time)

And also, an equivalent to Gamma World by the Pathfinder guys. Because everyone loves mutant bunnies.

*Note that I am only half joking here

Qadira

Shin-Do wrote:
I think a Epic Level Book would be the greatest addition to the pathfinder books

There currently is one done by Little Red Goblin Games if you're in need of one right now, but a Paizo one might be a bit more accurate for what they had in mind originally.

Personally, I want to see a Savage Species book. Necromancers of the Northwest is already starting to do one up with their renditions of the kyton, medusa, ogre mage, and succubus. But an actual book would be great. Maybe team up together and put it out?


Advanced Bestiary.

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