Can the weapon "Life Drinker" be created as a battle axe instead of a greataxe?


Rules Questions


Life-Drinker
Aura strong necromancy; CL 13th Slot none; Price 40,320 gp; Weight 12 lbs.

Description
This +1 greataxe is favored by undead and constructs, who do not suffer its drawback. A life-drinker bestows two negative levels on its target whenever it deals damage, just as if its target had been struck by an undead creature. One day after being struck, subjects must make a DC 16 Fortitude save for each negative level or the negative levels become permanent.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I dunno what the official ruling is, but you could probably just note the cost difference between the greataxe and the battle axe and call it good. The specific magic weapon entries have always seemed like more of a guideline to me than stone-cold-immutable-truths. Isn't there an adamantine battle axe listed in the magical weapons section? Likely not the only weapon that can be made of adamantine, and only serves to reinforce my position. Of course, magic item construction always falls under the purview of the GM, so that's the final arbiter.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Sure, why not? It would cost 40310 instead of 40320.


That is entirely up to your GM, there are no rules supporting switching out weapons like that, but there aren't really any rules preventing it either.


I don't see why you couldn't swap the weapons out like that. Makes sense to me.

Dark Archive

Obviously some swaps don't make sense.

A Cudgel of Puncturing, for instance.

Liberty's Edge

By RAW, no. However, there's no real reason not to.


Switching the life-drinker "property" over to a battleaxe should be no problem, assuming this is not for Pathfinder Society Organized Play; PFS does not allow one to custom-build items. I can think of at least one module that gives an NPC a kukri of life-stealing (instead of using a longsword as the base).


Blue Star wrote:
That is entirely up to your GM, there are no rules supporting switching out weapons like that, but there aren't really any rules preventing it either.

The problem with this statement is that there doesn't have to be a rule preventing something, if there isn't a rule to enable it in the first place. There's no rule specifically saying I can't fly, because unless I have something that lets me fly, I can't.

While it's perfectly reasonable to, as a house-rule, allow these enchantments to be switched around, I wouldn't allow it. There's a reason these custom weapon abilities aren't just listed on the table of abilities which can be added to a weapon. Often, they have abilities you can't get in any other way, which makes it a trade-off between having the type of weapon you want and having the special property you want. Trade-offs are interesting. Also, allowing them to be switched creates more headaches: Why can't I get a Fanged Falchion enchant on a Sword of Life Stealing (or vice versa)? I'd do 2 points of Con damage and a negative level each time I crit! Additionally, these enchants don't factor towards the +10 cap for magic weapons. I could have a Fanged, Life-Stealing Sword of Subtlety that's still only a +2 weapon (highest of the existing items), which I can then add +8 more enchantments to!

Sczarni

Well the price does come in for the max price of a weapon or armor. Now I know it may not have it written out in Pathfinder, but in 3.5 ( and if memory serves was said by one of the main Pathfinder writers) you could not exceed the total cost of a +10 item, regardless of what magic was on it. This was more specifically used in regards to armor. Along with this statement was a general guideline for using total cost to also determine further costs of upgrade, not just the +x cost. (ie energy resist price+enhancements; round to nearest +x to see how much it would cost to add an x+1 ability). Where this train comes in the most is with crafting...if I have a budget to get 100,000 (+10 armor) it costs me 50k; then I would want to add another 50k worth of other stuff...at this point it gets a bit much.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

For clarification of my post; I wouldn't in any way consider adding these special-entry abilities to have the option of including any of the "+x" special abilities added. Just give the option of swapping around the base weapon. Assassin's Dagger not quite right? Fine, Assassin's Kukri. Just not Vorpal Assassin's Kukri.


Stockvillain wrote:
For clarification of my post; I wouldn't in any way consider adding these special-entry abilities to have the option of including any of the "+x" special abilities added. Just give the option of swapping around the base weapon. Assassin's Dagger not quite right? Fine, Assassin's Kukri. Just not Vorpal Assassin's Kukri.

Yeah, that would be the most minimal change necessary, and would cause the least disruption. It'd still make the choice less interesting, but it wouldn't cause any larger issues.


I'm pretty sure the "official" answer will be something like: Ask your GM.

The existence of a unique magic item doesn't really affect the balance of weapon choices, so I can't see any reason for a GM to prohibit this, unless they're some kind of purist.


Bobson wrote:


The problem with this statement is that there doesn't have to be a rule preventing something, if there isn't a rule to enable it in the first place. There's no rule specifically saying I can't fly, because unless I have something that lets me fly, I can't.

well I guess since there is no rule saying your characters can go to the bathroom, all your characters are going to die of bladder infections.... not all situations are covered by the rules, and it is not desirable to have every situation covered by the rules... this is a game of interaction between people, and judgement calls on the part of the GM are going to have to be made from time to time, otherwise there is no reason to have a GM at all.


Just being the wierd sort that I am, I would word my permission differently.

Something like, "Someone making a life drinker is going for the most damage possible so it is always created in a greatsword or greataxe. However, this one was made by/for a gnome. So his greataxe can be used by you as a battleaxe."


cwslyclgh wrote:
Bobson wrote:


The problem with this statement is that there doesn't have to be a rule preventing something, if there isn't a rule to enable it in the first place. There's no rule specifically saying I can't fly, because unless I have something that lets me fly, I can't.
well I guess since there is no rule saying your characters can go to the bathroom, all your characters are going to die of bladder infections.... not all situations are covered by the rules, and it is not desirable to have every situation covered by the rules... this is a game of interaction between people, and judgement calls on the part of the GM are going to have to be made from time to time, otherwise there is no reason to have a GM at all.

You missed my point. I said that there doesn't need to be a rule preventing something unless there's a rule enabling it. That has nothing to do with whether or not something is allowed in the first place.


Bobson wrote:
You missed my point. I said that there doesn't need to be a rule preventing something unless there's a rule enabling it. That has nothing to do with whether or not something is allowed in the first place.

All the unique weapons in that section follow the same rules for magic item creation as everything else and are perfectly replicable using the rules. They are examples, if you will, of what can be achieved. An adamantine dagger is even listed in the same section after all.

I would suggest that variants on those unique weapons are quite rare...with some being simply non-existant. However I would generally rule that variants would have to be constructed by the character in question or by a skilled and trusted specialist...provided he is aware of the item in question and the magic involved.

They are unique because of the very specific combinations of magic/spells involved or due to the preferences of the craftsman who construct them. It will be up to the GM how accessaible such knowledge is to your characters though.


One thing to consider when changing the base weapon is if the new weapon has synergy with the special affects. For example, Life Drinker going from a two handed axe to a one handed is not going to change much, but if you made it a dagger, you could have people duel-weilding them and handing out a boat load of negative levels. You can get the same thing with crit range. If the weapon is balanced with doing something cool when you crit with a 20, it can get game-breakingly good when it starts doing it's thing on a 18-20.

It adds a lot of flavor to shake things up every now and then, just keep an eye on what you are doing.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:

I'm pretty sure the "official" answer will be something like: Ask your GM.

The existence of a unique magic item doesn't really affect the balance of weapon choices, so I can't see any reason for a GM to prohibit this, unless they're some kind of purist.

A weapon that has an uber magic effect that goes off on a crit becomes significantly more powerful if it's base type is changed to a weapon that crits more often, especially if "keen" is added to the mix.

Magic item creation is one area where GM's should be encouraged to add as many home rules to the process as they feel neccessary. One rule I add is the requirement for a formula for every magical item to be made with the exception of scrolls. Formulae become new treasure items for PC's to hunt down, either for party crafters or in the employ of one.

In magic item formulae, form is part of function, so yes varying the form of a magic item changes the formula and requires research. In this view the common forms for certain magic items are essentially the formulae most easily researched or most cost-effective to execute.

Shadow Lodge

As long as the resulting weapon makes sense, no problem. However, please leave all vorpal saps at the door.

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