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Rule Verification: Martial Weapon Proficiency


Rules Questions

Osirion

Rule verification:

During the Pathfinder game last night there was a question about the Martial Weapons Proficiency feat. I took the Martial Weapon Proficiency (Slashing). My understanding is if I choose this feat I would choose a TYPE of weapon. The GM ruled that you only choose one weapon. I just want to make sure that I understand the rule going forward.

Here is what the feat states:

[quote = Core Rule Book, page 130]

Martial Weapon Proficiency: Choose a TYPE of martial weapon. You understand how to use that TYPE of martial weapon in combat.

Benefit: You Make attack rolls with the selected weapon (without the non-proficient penalty).

Normal: When using a weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

This is telling me to choose a TYPE of weapons. If you look on page 144 of the Core Rule book, under the Weapon Qualities section it states:

Core Rule Book, page 144 wrote:

TYPE: Weapons are classified according to the TYPE of damage they deal: B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing. Some monsters may be resistant or immune to attacks from certain types of weapons.

Some weapons deal damage of multiple types. If a weapon causes two types of damage, the type it deals is not half one type and half another; all damage caused is of both types. Therefore, a creature would have to be immune to both types of damage to ignore any of the damage caused by such a weapon.

In other cases, a weapon can deal either of two types of damage. In a situation where the damage type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to deal with such a weapon.

Also if you look at the weapons chart, pages 142 and 143. The are three groups of weapons, simple martial, and exotic. And each group of weapons has the following qualities:

Core Rule Book page 142 wrote:

Cost - DMG(S) - DMG(M) – Critical - Range – Weight - TYPE – Special

Here again the weapon has a Type: B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing.

If choosing this feat means you only choose one weapon, (like Longsword or Battle Axe), than the fighter really cleans house with 36 feats from the Core Rule Book, and 8 more from the Advanced Player’s Guide, at first level fighter.

Martial Weapon Proficiency (Axe, Throwing)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Hammer, Light)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Handaxe)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Kukri)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (so on )

This is just an observation, not a criticism. My goal is to understand the rule.


I'd always understood it to be a specific weapon, like exotic weapon proficiency. The difference is damage type (bludgeoning, piercing or slashing) vs weapon type (hand axe or short sword).

Cheliax

You only get to choose a single weapon. Though you could pick up any copy of that weapon. For example, long sword would work for your steel long sword, the cold iron one you buy later and whatever adamantine or silver long sword you find on the adventure.

Having martial weapon proficiency as a class feature is not that big of a deal in terms of how many martial weapons are printed. Most martial weapons are balanced against each other. It just allows those classes to pick a weapon that might have a very slight edge in specific sitsuations. Even than, it is not often utilized because most people do not feel it is worth it to spend feats like weapon focus or specialization on more than one weapon choice. Same problem with spending money to buy a magic bludgeoning/slashing/piercing weapon each. Having a back up weapon is always a good idea. At least a masterwork copy of your regular weapon. Better if it is made of another metal. Holding an extra weapon or three to cover s/p/b and ranged is also good. Bear in mind, when you fight with say a d8 or better weapon that is masterwork and or feat improved with weapon focus. You might be better sticking with that than switching to a d6 or worse weapon with no me/mag or weapon focus bonus to hit. Always rembering you could use the aid another action to help a teammate. Especially if you are doing minor or no damage as an alternative or if your to this bonus is poor vs that target.

More over, martial weapons serve as a way to encourage the average strike of a martial intended class to strike better than the 3/4 class with only simple weapons. Martial weapons are almost always flat out better than simple weapons but once you get one martial weapon proficientcy, spending a feat on another is a very poor choice. If you really want to spend a feat on a better weapon, consider going straight to an exotic weapon weapon.

Shadow Lodge

You're looking at damage types of weapons.

Longsword is a type of weapon. Taking Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword makes you proficient with all longswords. Could this be clearer in the book? Absolutely.

Also this is more of a general rules question and not an issue specific to PFS. I've asked for it to be moved.

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

[Moved thread to rules questions forum]


You get to choose one weapon, not all slashing weapons as an example.

Shadow Lodge

Probably a lot better to just dip a level in fighter (unless your a caster and you don't want to lose spell progression), pick up all martial weapons, all armor and shields and a free feat.

Although if this isn't your first level feat you could get exotic weapon proficiency instead.

Cheliax

You get one specific weapon.
While it can be argued that most blunt type weapons work similarly (mace and warhammer, but less so a quartestaff), swords and axes - both slashing - or spears and daggers - both piercing - are intuitively quite different in the way they're handled and the battle style/strategy involved in using them.

So, one feat, one weapon. If you find this too much restrictive, talk with your DM about weapon groups (a 3.5 concept, but easily adapted to PFRPG).


sorry to say it but you have to read thw whole feat, it reads:

Martial Weapon Proficiency (Combat)
Choose a {type} of martial weapon. You understand how to use that type of martial weapon in combat.
***Benefit: You make attack rolls with the (((selected weapon))) normally (without the non-proficient penalty).***
Normal: When using a weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Special: Barbarians, fighters, paladins, and rangers are proficient with all martial weapons. They need not select this feat.

You can gain Martial Weapon Proficiency multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

the feat short is:
(((No penalty on attacks made with one martial weapon)))

this was done to clearify the RAI vs the RAW that people has a problem with in 3.5.
on the bright side it will allow the gm to focus on what magic weapons hes going to put in the non-random loot


This is entirely not RAW, but you could sensibly allow 1 feat to give all martial weapons from one of the fighter weapon groups, such as heavy blades or bows. Not the exotics, though.


Yeah Mudfoot thats how I have done things since unearthed arcana for 3.x was using weapon groups for not only profs but for any weapon feats as well its never really overpowered much just allows the character to not feel as bad if a really good weapon drops but its a Longsword not a bastard sword.

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