Bodhizen's Guide to the Optimal Paladin & Antipaladin


Advice

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That makes sense.


For those of you who are interested in giving more feedback on this guide, there is a survey that you can take to provide some. Thanks.


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Version 4.0 of Bodhi's Guide to the Optimal Paladin & Antipaladin is now live!


Well once we all take a good solid look at everything in the Familiar Folio, we might have to reexamine the Guide once again. I heard (although this is likely from an excited first account telling) that there was an archetype that involved the Familiar Folio. Something about being able to use Lay on Hands through a familiar and possibly slowing progression on Smite and other effects. If true, then that might change things for both Paladin and Antipaladin.


I don't have the Familiar Folio yet, so I might have to do an update in a few weeks.


I've been considering adding in a section for the Warpath Paladin (or Tempest Paladin; I haven't settled on the name yet, but it's essentially the Raging Paladin) into the Guide for a while now. Does anyone have any constructive advise and/or data that they can pass along to demonstrate the utility of the build? Right now, the best data I have comes from Coinshot Colton and I'm looking for more perspectives.

Thank you for your assistance and interest in the Guide.


Bodhizen wrote:

I've been considering adding in a section for the Warpath Paladin (or Tempest Paladin; I haven't settled on the name yet, but it's essentially the Raging Paladin) into the Guide for a while now. Does anyone have any constructive advise and/or data that they can pass along to demonstrate the utility of the build? Right now, the best data I have comes from Coinshot Colton and I'm looking for more perspectives.

Thank you for your assistance and interest in the Guide.

Are you talking about the Sacred Servant build with the Destruction Domain to gain rage?


I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but I did search for Aegis (handful of hits) and Sacred Shield (no hits unless the search engine messed up), and I did read the whole guide version previous to the one that just came out, and searched the current version for Aegis (handful of hits) and Sacred Shield (no hits). So I might have missed something, but here goes:

Any thoughts on Sacred Shield Paladin? I know you said that Aegis Paladin is unhealthy for your party, but the Sacred Shield archetype focuses on making the rest of your party as hard to damage: Bastion of Good replaces Smite Evil to give your allies a damage divider, and at 4th level Holy Shield replaces Channel Energy to give your shield bonus to your allies. A while ago a thread developed on building a Tower Shieldadin using this archetype and potentially a considerable amount of multiclassing. I even wrote a Tower Shieldadin proto-guide compiling various ideas that came up in that thread and in a related PM thread. (This is a proto-guide for not having had the chance to test any of this stuff. Now if only I could get the chance to test some of this stuff . . . or actually the chance to test anything . . . :-( )

Also (apologies if you put something in about this in version 4.0 and I haven't seen it yet), any further thoughts on going hyper-Dex-based, now including the ACG/ACO feats Slashing Grace or Fencing Grace?


UnArcaneElection wrote:

I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but I did search for Aegis (handful of hits) and Sacred Shield (no hits unless the search engine messed up), and I did read the whole guide version previous to the one that just came out, and searched the current version for Aegis (handful of hits) and Sacred Shield (no hits). So I might have missed something, but here goes:

Any thoughts on Sacred Shield Paladin?

I believe the search engine may have messed up. Here's what I said about the Sacred Shield archetype a few pages back.

Bodhizen wrote:

... When combining these limited tactics with Sacred Shield, you don't gain much benefit at all until 11th level. Your allies take half damage from the target of your smite only if they're pretty much within reach of your target, provided that your target is adjacent to you, since your Bastion of Good ability only works out to 10' prior to level 11. Problem is, you just gave up your offensive aspect of Smite Evil for this limited protection. At level 11, it increases to 20', which allows for more tactical positioning, but you just gave up your Aura of Justice. Three words... Not worth it.

Unless, of course, you're playing a purely defensive paladin (like a tank and/or healer that doesn't worry one bit about offense), in which case, it's not a half-bad exchange... Once you hit level 11, that is.

Essentially, the exchange is not worthwhile. I'll get into that below.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
I know you said that Aegis Paladin is unhealthy for your party, but the Sacred Shield archetype focuses on making the rest of your party as hard to damage: Bastion of Good replaces Smite Evil to give your allies a damage divider, and at 4th level Holy Shield replaces Channel Energy to give your shield bonus to your allies. A while ago a thread developed on building a Tower Shieldadin using this archetype and potentially a considerable amount of multiclassing. I even wrote a Tower Shieldadin proto-guide compiling various ideas that came up in that thread and in a related PM thread. (This is a proto-guide for not having had the chance to test any of this stuff. Now if only I could get the chance to test some of this stuff . . . or actually the chance to test anything . . . :-( )

Bastion of Good, admittedly, gets better with "age" (i.e. leveling), but only because giving your allies the ability to soak half damage gets better the more damage your opponents do anyway. The problem with it, though, is threefold. Number one, what it does for you is lost if you ever lose your Dexterity bonus to Armour Class, which isn't particularly hard to have happen. Number two, it forces your allies to stay within 10 feet of you, so even though they're taking half damage, they're ripe for area-of-effect attacks. Sure, a fireball probably isn't going to kill them, and they might even take a quarter damage on a successful save. That's nothing to sneer at. But, the fact that they get nothing if they're more than 10 feet away from you is pretty limiting, and can cause some tactical problems. Number three, the huge limiter is that they only take half damage from the target of your smite. If they took half damage from any source, it would be considerably better.

Holy Shield is not what I'd call attractive. At the use of two lay on hands, you get to offer your shield bonus to adjacent allies, carrying the same drawback regarding area-of-effect attacks. This is somewhat mitigated at 11th level when they can be 10 feet away from you, and further mitigated at 20th level when they can be 20 feet away. Unfortunately, it doesn't stack with any existing shield bonuses. If it did, it would be stellar, but if you've got a +7 shield bonus, and your ally has a +5, you're giving them +2, which is very lackluster. If your allies don't have shields at all, then it might be game-on, but only if they're close.

Then we go to the Divine Bond ability. It makes sense that it works for shields instead of weapons, but it's not that spectacular, so I'm going to move on.

Improve Bastion is something that really should have been rolled into Bastion of Good, and it's okay, but you have to wait until 11th level to get to it. Most games are drawing to a close by then. It still does nothing to address the first or third flaws to Bastion of Good.

Perfect Bastion would have been spectacular... If and only if it simply worked, period. Unfortunately, it's against the target of your Bastion of Good ability, so it's exceptionally limited.

Essentially, Sacred Shield is pretty good... When you're protecting your party against the Big Bad Evil Guy, but it does nothing for you or your allies when you use it against groups of minions, which it should have been designed for instead. I'm not going to say that it's useless or that it can't make a difference, but it's extremely handicapped.

Never mind that none of that does anything to address the fact that unless your GM is being kind or your antagonists are insane and stupid, you don't attack a tank with your bare hand while the soldiers mow down your forces. You go after the squishies first and kill the slow-moving behemoth when you have enough firepower to do so. Power-turtling equals "why would I want to attack that and get killed?" You wouldn't do something that foolish. Why would your opponents?

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Also (apologies if you put something in about this in version 4.0 and I haven't seen it yet), any further thoughts on going hyper-Dex-based, now including the ACG/ACO feats Slashing Grace or Fencing Grace?

I'll address that later. For now, I'm out of time.

Thanks for your questions, and for your interest in the Guide!


Bodhizen wrote:
{. . .} Bastion of Good, admittedly, gets better with "age" (i.e. leveling), but only because giving your allies the ability to soak half damage gets better the more damage your opponents do anyway. The problem with it, though, is threefold. Number one, what it does for you is lost if you ever lose your Dexterity bonus to Armour Class, which isn't particularly hard to have happen.

I can't find anything in the Sacred Shield/Bastion of Good text that says it doesn't work if you lose your Dexterity Bonus. But if I am reading it wrong and it does, if I was going to make a Tower Shieldadin build, something like a Ring of Freedom of Action would then be a high priority.

Bodhizen wrote:
Number two, it forces your allies to stay within 10 feet of you, so even though they're taking half damage, they're ripe for area-of-effect attacks. Sure, a fireball probably isn't going to kill them, and they might even take a quarter damage on a successful save. That's nothing to sneer at. But, the fact that they get nothing if they're more than 10 feet away from you is pretty limiting, and can cause some tactical problems.

This is a real problem, although just how bad it is depends upon your party composition. You don't want this for a mounted party unless everyone is Small, and you probably don't want it in a campaign where you are going to get AoE'd often (Second Darkness, for instance). As I said in my proto-guide (that I linked in the previous post), the Wizard (or suitably built substitute thereof) is going to be your best friend, to defend against these types of attacks that give you problems. Black Tentacles (especially with 1 level of Heighten Spell) could still be a problem even with an appropriately prepared Wizard on your side, though (and if enemies go higher, add Rock to Mud) -- I would worry more about these than about Fireballs (you can't keep them out with Globe of Invulnerability).

Bodhizen wrote:
Number three, the huge limiter is that they only take half damage from the target of your smite. If they took half damage from any source, it would be considerably better.

Another real problem if your party doesn't have a good means for dealing with the minions. The Pathfinder APs I have followed often seem to have 1 Big Boss sometimes accompanied by a few minions of definitively lesser calibre, so this problem might not be too bad (your other party members can deal with the minions as long as they aren't getting socked by the Big Boss), but if the encounters are redesigned according to recommendations on this board (which I am in agreement with, by the way), this might become a show-stopper. If I worked at Paizo instead of working in Modern Necromancy Life Science research, I actually wouldn't have a good idea off the bat of how to fix this in a balanced way.

Bodhizen wrote:
{. . .} Holy Shield is not what I'd call attractive. At the use of two lay on hands, you get to offer your shield bonus to adjacent allies, carrying the same drawback regarding area-of-effect attacks. This is somewhat mitigated at 11th level when they can be 10 feet away from you, and further mitigated at 20th level when they can be 20 feet away. Unfortunately, it doesn't stack with any existing shield bonuses. If it did, it would be stellar, but if you've got a +7 shield bonus, and your ally has a +5, you're giving them +2, which is very lackluster. If your allies don't have shields at all, then it might be game-on, but only if they're close.

Now THAT I didn't catch. So as you said, this works best if the rest of your party has minimal shields or none. I did mention before that a Shieldadin build is highly dependent upon the rest of your party and the campaign, but good catch nevertheless.

Bodhizen wrote:
Improve Bastion is something that really should have been rolled into Bastion of Good, {. . .}

No disagreement on that or the related point about Perfect Bastion. Fortunately (depending upon particular needs), in most of the builds Sacred Shield was for (as linked in my previous post), you would be getting other stuff instead of these, because most of the builds I was thinking of don't keep going up in Paladin levels past 4 or 8 (the breakout point depends upon the specific build), instead multiclassing into something else, often after multiclassing from something else before getting the Sacred Shield levels (although the default version of my example linked below DOES go the rest of the way up as Sacred Shield Paladin).

Bodhizen wrote:
{. . .} Essentially, Sacred Shield is pretty good... When you're protecting your party against the Big Bad Evil Guy, but it does nothing for you or your allies when you use it against groups of minions, which it should have been designed for instead. I'm not going to say that it's useless or that it can't make a difference, but it's extremely handicapped.

Probably right in a lot of cases, but I have a hypothesis that in the right party, a build based upon Sacred Shield could be pretty good in the upcoming AP Giantslayer. Carrion Crown, Shattered Star, and Mummy's Mask (but Constructs are a problem) might also be good APs for a Tower Shieldadin, although in the latter 2 cases I haven't seen very far into the APs, so that could turn out to be wrong, and in any case the rest of the party has to have the right composition.


Sorry for not reading through all these parts, but I love the guide but do not see mention of the channel smite feat.

For an extra boost of damage with no pre reqs, it seems like a good deal to me, unless of course I am missing something?


First, thanks for your reply. I'm going to try to break it down and address each one of your points in turn.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
I can't find anything in the Sacred Shield/Bastion of Good text that says it doesn't work if you lose your Dexterity Bonus. But if I am reading it wrong and it does, if I was going to make a Tower Shieldadin build, something like a Ring of Freedom of Action would then be a high priority.

I was mistaken; I was thinking of your Dodge bonus being lost if you lose your Dexterity bonus. My apologies.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
This is a real problem, although just how bad it is depends upon your party composition. You don't want this for a mounted party unless everyone is Small, and you probably don't want it in a campaign where you are going to get AoE'd often (Second Darkness, for instance). As I said in my proto-guide (that I linked in the previous post), the Wizard (or suitably built substitute thereof) is going to be your best friend, to defend against these types of attacks that give you problems. Black Tentacles (especially with 1 level of Heighten Spell) could still be a problem even with an appropriately prepared Wizard on your side, though (and if enemies go higher, add Rock to Mud) -- I would worry more about these than about Fireballs (you can't keep them out with Globe of Invulnerability).

You want to be able to control the terms of engagement on the battlefield. That sometimes means that you want your characters spread out. Even having your party wizard on the heels of the paladin is generally not such a good idea, as you typically want them flinging spells from as safe a distance as would be effective. If you're using a Sacred Shield, you likely want to be in the thick of battle so that you can take hits. So... Draw hits as best you can... Until your foes realize that they can't hit you and move on to softer targets, or constantly use Bastion of Good against targets so that you can apply your defensive bonuses to your nearby allies. But, if you're up against a foe that can control the battlefield better than you can, they can pin your paladin down and if his or her allies move away, their ability is lost. That's a pretty serious concern, and it's not too terribly difficult to cause that to happen, even with your wonderful saves. As you had mentioned earlier, black tentacles is one way to do it.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Now THAT I didn't catch. So as you said, this works best if the rest of your party has minimal shields or none. I did mention before that a Shieldadin build is highly dependent upon the rest of your party and the campaign, but good catch nevertheless.

The fact that the Sacred Shield is highly dependent upon the rest of your party and the campaign suggests that it's more of a niche build than a general utility build. Wouldn't you agree? Also, if that's the case, it's doubtless suboptimal in most games. Is that a fair assessment?

UnArcaneElection wrote:
No disagreement on that or the related point about Perfect Bastion. Fortunately (depending upon particular needs), in most of the builds Sacred Shield was for (as linked in my previous post), you would be getting other stuff instead of these, because most of the builds I was thinking of don't keep going up in Paladin levels past 4 or 8 (the breakout point depends upon the specific build), instead multiclassing into something else, often after multiclassing from something else before getting the Sacred Shield levels (although the default version of my example linked below DOES go the rest of the way up as Sacred Shield Paladin).

Multiclassing is something I explicitly do not do in my Guide. So, if the Sacred Shield build is predicated upon multiclassing, it's probably not something that I would include. But, I'll stay away from the multiclassing discussion for the purposes of this intellectual exercise.

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Probably right in a lot of cases, but I have a hypothesis that in the right party, a build based upon Sacred Shield could be pretty good in the upcoming AP Giantslayer. Carrion Crown, Shattered Star, and Mummy's Mask (but Constructs are a problem) might also be good APs for a Tower Shieldadin, although in the latter 2 cases I haven't seen very far into the APs, so that could turn out to be wrong, and in any case the rest of the party has to have the right composition.

This is a concern; the idea that you need the right party or the right Adventure Path. A genuinely solid build should work in most situations, rather than only working in specific ones. I'm not saying that the build is worthless, but its worth shouldn't be conditional.


malaketh wrote:

Sorry for not reading through all these parts, but I love the guide but do not see mention of the channel smite feat.

For an extra boost of damage with no pre reqs, it seems like a good deal to me, unless of course I am missing something?

Thanks for your input on the Guide. The concern I have with the Channel Smite feat is threefold. First, if you're a paladin, it's only going to work against undead, so it doesn't have full-range utility. Secondly, your target gets to make a Will save to halve the damage, and your channel damage generally isn't super-impressive to begin with. Third, if you attack misses, you still use the channel. It's a pretty big gamble without a fantastic payout even if it does work.

At level 5, you get one 3d6 shot per day, so you're going to get in an average of 11 points if you hit, but only 6 if they make the Will save. You're better off grabbing another feat to grant you more uses of your Lay on Hands ability while you wail on your foes. I'm not confident that it's worth 33% of your total feats (minus any extras from being Human) at level 5.


Indeed I did not think it through all the way. Thanks for the input!


malaketh wrote:

Sorry for not reading through all these parts, but I love the guide but do not see mention of the channel smite feat.

For an extra boost of damage with no pre reqs, it seems like a good deal to me, unless of course I am missing something?

I can't see a use for Channel Smite at all for a Paladin except in a really weird case, or almost anyone else.

Channel Smite wrote:

You can channel your divine energy through a melee weapon you wield.

Prerequisite: Channel energy class feature.

Benefit: Before you make a melee attack roll, you can choose to spend one use of your channel energy ability as a swift action. If you channel positive energy and you hit an undead creature, that creature takes an amount of additional damage equal to the damage dealt by your channel positive energy ability. If you channel negative energy and you hit a living creature, that creature takes an amount of additional damage equal to the damage dealt by your channel negative energy ability. Your target can make a Will save, as normal, to halve this additional damage. If your attack misses, the channel energy ability is still expended with no effect.

The above means that you do just as much damage to one target with the Channel Smite (+ your attack damage) as you would if you just Channeled Energy the normal way to harm Undead (or other valid targets if you have something like Alignment Channel), but ONLY IF YOU HIT (and just to one attack, not your whole Full Attack), and ONLY TO THE ONE TARGET. Why not just Channel Energy the normal way, then, except in a corner case like you have a Dhampir ally, but in that case you should have spent the feat on Selective Channeling.

The only use I have been able to find for Channel Smite is as the prerequisite to Guided Hand, which lets you add your Wisdom modifier to your attack rolls instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. But Wisdom is not a high-priority Ability Score for Paladins in Pathfinder, unless you are multiclassing as a Monk; otherwise, leave this to the warrior Clerics and Warpriests (and Inquisitors with Channel Scourge or the Cold Iron Warden archetype), and even for them, Channel Smite is just a feat tax. (The other corner case would be a villain who normally does the Necromancy schtick but also has too many living allies for Selective Channeling to avoid hitting.)

Bodhizen wrote:
{. . .} The fact that the Sacred Shield is highly dependent upon the rest of your party and the campaign suggests that it's more of a niche build than a general utility build. Wouldn't you agree? Also, if that's the case, it's doubtless suboptimal in most games. Is that a fair assessment? {. . .}

Fair enough. Still handy to have when that niche does come up, but I can understand that you wouldn't want to spend much time/space on it in a general purpose guide.


Channel Smite is actually fantastic for anti paladins.
Combined with a conductive weapon and fit the cost of 4 loh you get oodles of additional dice, plus with your aura and an intimidate check you can reduce their saves by 4 before delivering your cruelty effect through your weapon.


For the Castigator, what do you think about:

1: Power Attack
1/Human bonus: Fey Foundling
3: Weapon Focus (Falchion)
5: Greater Mercy
7: Extra Lay On Hands
9: Critical focus
11: Dazing Assault
13: Staggering Critical

Only thing I have a problem with is the weapon focus- I like the +1 but is it worth it by itself in such a feat starved class?

Also, what do you think about Noble Scion of war feat and dipping Oracle to get Nature's Whispers?


Actually, Channel Smite is as poor for antipaladins as it is for paladins. You're going to expend two uses of channel negative energy, not touch of corruption, to use your channel smite, even through a conductive weapon. However, combining it with a conductive weapon is a poor idea anyway since the channel smite feat already lets you do that.

So, instead, you'll expend a use of your channel smite in the attack. If your attack is successful, you get to inflict an additional 3d6 (average 11) points of damage to your target (incredibly underwhelming at 5th level; comparing apples to apples in the previous example), 6 on average if they make the Will save. At 8th level when you acquire your Aura of Despair, your opponents are only going to take a -2 to their saving throws if you don't take the standard action to Intimidate first, -4 if you do. On action economy, it's poor. On resource use, it's exceptionally poor, and for what? An average of 14 points of additional damage if you hit (at 8th level now, since we're counting in the Aura of Despair).

Warhawx wrote:

For the Castigator, what do you think about:

1: Power Attack
1/Human bonus: Fey Foundling
3: Weapon Focus (Falchion)
5: Greater Mercy
7: Extra Lay On Hands
9: Critical focus
11: Dazing Assault
13: Staggering Critical

Only thing I have a problem with is the weapon focus- I like the +1 but is it worth it by itself in such a feat starved class?

Also, what do you think about Noble Scion of war feat and dipping Oracle to get Nature's Whispers?

Instead of taking Weapon Focus, why not consider Furious Focus so that you can ignore the penalty from Power Attack on the first hit? While it's not a standard +1 bonus to every attack, you get to mitigate the -1 penalty to attack from using Power Attack on the first hit per round at 3rd level, -4 at 13th. If you're making standard attacks, it's of better benefit to you since Weapon Focus will only ever grant you the +1 bonus to hit and you're not going for any feats that require Weapon Focus. If you're making full attacks, instead of taking a -3 (after accounting for Weapon Focus' +1) to hit on every attack, you ignore the -4 to hit on the first attack (slightly better than a +1 across three attacks; +14/+5/+0 at minimum Strength of 13 versus +11/+6/+1 with Weapon Focus at minimum Strength).

Noble Scion of War is fine to get better Initiative, but assuming that you get a +2 bonus to Intiative from your Dexterity, Noble Scion of War would only improve that marginally by calculating with your Charisma (assuming a +4 bonus) instead. If it stacked, it would be worth it, but you can do better with Improved Initiative. The only time Noble Scion of War outstrips Improved Initiative is if you have a negative Dexterity modifier and at least Charisma 18, or you have a positive Dexterity modifier and your Charisma is 20 or higher. If you're putting it to use on top of Improved Initiative, then it's good.

I do not give advise regarding dipping levels. I state that very clearly in the discussion thread on multiple occasions, and in the Guide itself.


I have 10 Dex and 20 Cha in my build right now. What would you value more between Furious Focus and Noble Scion of war in this case?


I would advise you to take Furious Focus over Noble Scion of War.


It just occurred to me that in some situations you might want to be an Aegis Paladin after all, even without the Sacred Shield aspect of it. If the rest of your party is also really tanky, YOU might be the glass cannon from the point of view of anything you could Smite (and who suspects or knows that you could Smite). If the only arcane caster in the party is a Scarred Witch Doctor or Synthesist Summoner with good protections substituting for armor, or (at higher levels) a Magus or either of a couple of Bard archetypes that eventually get Heavy armor, or even something that doesn't have heavy armor but has Dex through the roof, and the divine caster managed to get hold of the equivalent of Heavy armor, you might be only slightly less squishy than them, and be more of an attractive target because your Smite hurts more. This kind of party composition wouldn't be in the majority, but I would be surprised if it was unheard of. In this case, might as well shield up!


looking for paladins of rage input?

while i'm not too good at rules breakdowns and how's and why's of things, I did make an example build a while back:

PALADIN OF RAAAAAAGE

Spoiler:
tiefling sacred servant (ragathiel [rage]) paladin 20

str 28 (5+2), dex 18 (2), con 20 (5), int 18 (2) , wis 16 (1-2), cha 28 (5+2)
str/str/cha/cha/wis (level), +6 all (gear), +4 str/cha (book/wish)

traits: magical knack (paladin) / ???

divine bond: +5 LoH/day
LoH: 25/day (w/ bracers of merciful knight)

rage powers:
15 - lesser celestial totem
19 - reckless abandon

feats:
1 - Fey Foundling
3 - Power Attack
5 - Channel Smite
7 - Vital Strike
9 - Greater Mercy
11 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - Furious Finish
15 - Devastating Strike
17 - Greater Vital Strike
19 - Ultimate Mercy

example weapon: +5 furious courageous conductive impact inheritor's light (ISG pg 256, despite the name it's not actually iomedae worshipper-specific far as i can tell)

impact longsword (2d6) -> GVS (8d6), +7 enhancement, +15 PA, +18 STR, +6 devastating strike, +10d6 conductive (LoH), +10d6 channel smite, +40 smite, +11 destructive smite, +2d6 bane baldric

Pop furious finish to deal 222-277 damage (145 + 22d6 (77 avg, 132 max)) BEFORE smite or buffs like bloodsworn retribution, greater heroism, etc.
You can then cure your fatigue via swift action LoH (fatigue mercy) on yourself.

while the whole combo eats 5 LoH uses each (2 conductive, 2 channel smite, 1 to heal fatigue next turn) and this is definitely a 'nova' tactic, not everything is a viable target for LoH/channel energy damage, so this wouldn't come up too often, and you certainly needn't pour all of them in like this against lesser enemies.

aside from that you can just heal yourself for ~111 (11d6 (avg ~38.5) +20 totem +22 FF +20 FCB +11 weapon) hp, as a swift action (or an immediate action with heroic defiance if an enemy somehow slogs through all that healing). on every round for 25 rounds straight if need be.

due to weapon choice it frees up an arm for a buckler for extra AC, since you can go:
(put hand on weapon for 2H bonuses -> make attacks/VS -> take hand off weapon for free hand (casting/LoH/buckler AC) -> end turn)
- - - - - - - - - -

this build basically combines the Lay-on-Handiman (fey foundling+tiefling FCB+lesser celestial totem+inheritor's light) core with the Big Hit core with rage (greater VS+devastating strike with furious finish) for silly self-healing and the ability to keep his damage output high even when he can't stand and full attack.

off the top of my head i can say that it's certainly great to be able to combine the 2H furious+courageous barbarian (usually) always-on weapon boosts with the offensive spike and defensive bulk of the paladin.

.

also, somewhat related--in the equipment section (if you haven't already), be sure to make note that the Boots of the Battle Herald are fantastic for pretty much any build, and possibly worth the courageous enchant by itself for raging paladins.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

It just occurred to me that in some situations you might want to be an Aegis Paladin after all, even without the Sacred Shield aspect of it. If the rest of your party is also really tanky, YOU might be the glass cannon from the point of view of anything you could Smite (and who suspects or knows that you could Smite). If the only arcane caster in the party is a Scarred Witch Doctor or Synthesist Summoner with good protections substituting for armor, or (at higher levels) a Magus or either of a couple of Bard archetypes that eventually get Heavy armor, or even something that doesn't have heavy armor but has Dex through the roof, and the divine caster managed to get hold of the equivalent of Heavy armor, you might be only slightly less squishy than them, and be more of an attractive target because your Smite hurts more. This kind of party composition wouldn't be in the majority, but I would be surprised if it was unheard of. In this case, might as well shield up!

UnArcaneElection,

Thanks for your input. To be quite honest, it is not particularly likely that your party arcane caster is going to have a high enough armour class that you're the glass cannon. If that turns out to be the case, you want to have a low enough armour class to make yourself the attractive target regardless. The goal of the tank is to take the hits so that other members of your party don't have to, not to be able to take hits and not take damage. There is no solid "threat" mechanic in Pathfinder that forces targets to attack the paladin, so there is no mechanical reason for your foes to attack you and not the party wizard. After all, the conventional wisdom is that you go after the casters first.

----------

AndIMustAsk,

Thank you for your input. I'm going to look over this specific build a bit, but I was wondering if you had a bit more generic advise. The build you presented certainly seems to work, but I can't recommend anything unless it has a bit more general utility in terms of race and feat selections, so I have to look to see if it's still as good (or almost as good) with some alternate combinations.

Best wishes!


Do you have anything on Eldritch heritage? Orc bloodline seems good.


master_marshmallow,

I do mention Eldritch Heritage in the Guide.

It's not all that good. In order to get the good benefits of bloodlines like the Orc bloodline, you need to take Improved and Greater Eldritch Heritage, so that's more feats. Touch of Rage is fine, but it's not a must-have. If I want Strength of the Beast, I have to take two feats to get there. That's not a good use of my limited resources in order to get +2 to Strength (which admittedly increases to +4 and +6 later on, but you can get Strength bonuses in other ways).

If paladins got more feats, then I'd feel a lot differently about a few feats, Eldritch Heritage included, but they don't, and there are other, higher-priority feats.

Best wishes!


In response to some of the survey feedback:

Anonymous Survey Respondent #5 wrote:

I really like Thallin's Valkyrie/Avenger RP suggestion.

The Valkyrie (or Avenger): Think Judge Dread, or Avenging Angels, or Batman. You are here for a purpose, and you will not accept surrender as an option. You will let the party generally work in whatever parameters they want, including setting traps and taking the enemy by surprise, as long as they are brought to justice and no innocents are hurt. When you are talking with enemies, you don't talk nice, you strike PURE FEAR into their hearts (high skill:Intimidate). When you find their head, you will not accept surrender for the terrible deeds they have done.

The Valkyrie tends to push the bounds of Lawful Good; they are the purest form of Lawful, with a desire to bring back order to society. They will not compromise situations to hurt innocents, but by the same token they take a hard hand to enemies. The party will actually accept you into their plans; they aren't going to have to plan behind you in order to use poisons or traps or lying to get what they need from enemies.

First off, thank you for your interest in the Guide!

This is already covered, to be honest. Judge Dredd is generally an uncompromising jerk, totally dedicated to his cause. This falls perfectly into The Vindicator, as does Batman. In fact, I explicitly mention Judge Dredd in the Vindicator entry as-is.

The Valkyrie is a variation on this theme. They both fall under the umbrella of the Vindicator; they just have different names for what is essentially the same concept.

Anonymous Survey Respondent #5 wrote:
I love the pro layout! About the only think I would look more into would be a general feat section for non build-specific feats (and particularly why they're less amazing than they look on paper - *cough*eldritch heritage*cough*, or an "Other Shenanigans" section on dipping or ways to get the benefits of dipping without sacrificing pally advancement (ie Amateur Swashbuckler for the Parry/Riposte deed) or picking up rage.

Thanks you! I get mixed feedback about the layout. Some people love how professional it looks, and that's really what I'm going for. Others feel that it should be a plain old Google Document in black and white (plus the rating colour scheme). Still others want a "printer friendly" version of the Guide. To be fair, if someone really wants a "printer friendly" version of the Guide, there's a nifty set of functions known as "Select All", "Copy", "Paste Special" (into a new document, and they can paste the text only), and then "Print". A whole lot of work goes into the content of the Guide, and even more goes into the layout. Plus, people get it for free. If they're really concerned about having a "printer friendly" version, they can go through those complex steps that I went through just a few sentences ago. Then again, I pity their printer ink expenses for all of the official Pathfinder products that they might purchase and want to print out.

Honestly, I put a lot of time and effort into getting the Guide to look as good as it does, and some day, I hope to make even more improvements to make it look just as professional as any official Pathfinder .pdf. I want the Guide to look different than your average Google document. Not only does it minimise the chance of tampering (which Broken Zenith has taken it upon himself to fix for older Guides), but I feel that it enhances the product in general. Thank you very much for your support of the layout!

So... Getting to the meat of this comment. One of the wonderful things about the Guide is that it tells you where the discussion board is located, and I've had the discussion about why feats like Eldritch Heritage don't give you enough bang-for-your-buck, as it were. If you refer to the post right before this one, you'll get a quick-and-dirty run down as to why, but if you go back further in the discussion thread, I go into greater detail.

Also, as is mentioned in the Guide and the discussion thread, I don't write for dipping, period. It would bloat the Guide unimaginably. The amount of work involved, plus the amount of pages that it would add to the Guide pretty much ensures that this will never happen.

Thanks for the feedback, though. I really appreciate you taking the time to write out your comments to me, and I hope that you make it over here to the boards to add to the discussion!

Best wishes!


Typo:Angel-Blooded Aasamar don't get glitterdust, they get alter self. For castigator, that's a +2 to strength (not to mention the other things you could use it for out of combat).


One thing that makes the Aegis paladin more playable in a group is the antagonize feat, I am not sure the antipaladin would take it, but.......

Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you.

Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and has a DC equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. Before you make these checks, you may make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on these Diplomacy or Intimidate checks equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn. The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.

Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.


Bodhizen,

I tend to veer away from guides with respect to straight copying builds and use them more for reference or looking for ideas I might not have had myself. Yours has raised some to me that I likely wouldn't have noticed without it. If you would, here's a paladin I recently created. How would you weigh it? Forgive the formatting as I don't use Hero Lab. Mostly, I'm just curious if you see any glaring holes and am simply sharing a build. I'm also curious about how you'd classify it according to your guide. I could see it working well in a few roles.

Oath of Vengeance Paladin of Sarenrae, Level 16:

Aasimar, angel-blooded

Ability Scores
STR 23, DEX 14, CON 18, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 24

Initiative +7

HP 187, resist acid/cold/electricity 5

AC 31, Touch 12, FF 29
Fort 25, Ref 17, Will 22; Immune disease, charm, fear

CMB 22, CMD 34

Weapon: Sun Blade +24/19/14/9 (1d10+8, 19-20/x2; +2 inc. enh. vs. evil)
vs. Negative Energy Plane creatures and undead damage is doubled, crit mod increased by 1
Smite: +7 Atk, +20 Dmg

Lay on Hands: 15/day, 8d6
Mercies: fatigue, staggered, nauseated, paralyzed, stunned

Feats
Radiant Charge, Fearless Aura, Dragonbane Aura, Greater Mercy, Ultimate Mercy, Divine Interference, Adept Champion, Noble Scion (War)

Traits
Planar Savant, Magical Knack

Spells (simply go-to's), Concentration +22, CL 15
1 (5/day) - Veil of Positive Energy, Hero's Defiance, Liberating Command x2, Sign of the Dawnflower
2 (5/day) - Fire of Entanglement, Litany of Righteousness x3, Flameblade
3 (4/day) - Blade of Bright Victory, Litany of Escape, Shield of Fortification Greater
4 (2/day) - Angelic Aspect Greater, Sunbeam

Spells from gear
Feather Fall, Overland Flight (or Fly), Bless, Sanctuary, Arcane Mark, Prayer, Enter Image

Magical Gear
Amulet of Natural Armor +3
Cassock of the Clergy
Bracers of the Avenging Knight
Boots of the Battle Herald
Headband of Inspiring Charisma +6
Cloak of Resistance +4
Ring of the Ecclesiarch
Ring of Foe Focus
Belt of Physical Might (Con, Str) +4
Celestial Plate
Celestial Shield


Akin DT wrote:
Typo:Angel-Blooded Aasamar don't get glitterdust, they get alter self. For castigator, that's a +2 to strength (not to mention the other things you could use it for out of combat).

Thank you for spotting that. I have changed that for the next update of the Guide.

KenderKin wrote:

One thing that makes the Aegis paladin more playable in a group is the antagonize feat, I am not sure the antipaladin would take it, but.......

Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you.

Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and has a DC equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. Before you make these checks, you may make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on these Diplomacy or Intimidate checks equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn. The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.

Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.

Thank you for your input, KenderKin.

Antagonise is kind of a junk feat. It seems really awesome at first, but then you realise that you only get to use it once per day on any individual creature. So... It doesn't "hold aggro" like a paladin in World of Warcraft might. It's also got some other drawbacks, such as the action economy and the conditions under which it doesn't work that make it something that I wouldn't recommend. You're much better off doing other things than spending the standard action on something that you can't (generally speaking) extend, and you can't use on the same creature more than once per day. Granted, the diplomacy effect is marginally better, but that's not saying much.

If the Antagonise feat lasted more than a single round, or required that the target use their most powerful spell, attack action, make a full attack (if possible), or was extendable (even via a secondary feat, although I am not a fan of feat taxes), or granted greater penalties on the Diplomacy side, or you could use it more than once per day... Then it might be worth consideration.

Buri Reborn wrote:

Bodhizen,

I tend to veer away from guides with respect to straight copying builds and use them more for reference or looking for ideas I might not have had myself. Yours has raised some to me that I likely wouldn't have noticed without it. If you would, here's a paladin I recently created. How would you weigh it? Forgive the formatting as I don't use Hero Lab. Mostly, I'm just curious if you see any glaring holes and am simply sharing a build. I'm also curious about how you'd classify it according to your guide. I could see it working well in a few roles.

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for your input on the Guide, Buri Reborn.

There's a reason that I don't post "example builds" in my Guides. People tend to gravitate toward example builds as "one true builds" and not really play anything else.

Now as far as evaluating builds, I generally don't, but I might consider it if you resubmit the entire build with a few points of added information:

  • The level of the character. (I'm assuming it's level 15.)
  • The god/goddess you worship. (I assume Sarenrae.)
  • The intended role of the character.
  • What you intend to play this character in: a module, an adventure path, a homebrew game (submit details, please).

I can't point out holes in the build without some knowledge of what the intention is behind the character. I could point and say that you have no defense against fire damage or bleed damage or level draining, but that's not particularly useful if you're going to be playing in games where that's not particularly likely to happen.

Best wishes, all!


Buri Reborn wrote:

Bodhizen,

I tend to veer away from guides with respect to straight copying builds and use them more for reference or looking for ideas I might not have had myself. Yours has raised some to me that I likely wouldn't have noticed without it. If you would, here's a paladin I recently created. How would you weigh it? Forgive the formatting as I don't use Hero Lab. Mostly, I'm just curious if you see any glaring holes and am simply sharing a build. I'm also curious about how you'd classify it according to your guide. I could see it working well in a few roles.

** spoiler omitted **...

You need sicken mercy ....


Bodhizen wrote:

Thanks for your input on the Guide, Buri Reborn.

There's a reason that I don't post "example builds" in my Guides. People tend to gravitate toward example builds as "one true builds" and not really play anything else.

Now as far as evaluating builds, I generally don't, but I might consider it if you resubmit the entire build with a few points of added information:
The level of the character. (I'm assuming it's level 15.)
The god/goddess you worship. (I assume Sarenrae.)
The intended role of the character.

What you intend to play this character in: a module, an adventure path, a homebrew game (submit details, please).

I can't point out holes in the build without some knowledge of what the intention is behind the character. I could point and say that you have no defense against fire damage or bleed damage or level draining, but that's not particularly useful if you're going to be playing in games where that's not particularly likely to happen.

The level is 16.

Goddess is Sarenrae.

Intended role is front-liner, "buffer" via auras, and tertiary healer. The party kind of has healing and condition removal overall covered by everyone else as there is no single character dedicated to those things. That paladin helps fill in the gaps where the group needs just a little more or a once/day "oops" raise dead. The character carries several consumables along those lines.

The character is being played in Rise of the Runelords. We just started book 6.

Thanks!


Bodhizen,

my DM is letting me use an anti-paladin as a PC in our current campaign. I was hoping that you would be able to recommend traits and feats for a Human Devastator Paladin.


This file seems to have disappeared; the link on "Guide to the Class Guides" gives an error message.

Dark Archive

The link from this page seems to still work fine Makarion.


Hello there, might I bring up the Orc bloodline (via eldritch heritage feat line) again? As you have already said it is a very feat demanding chain (4+1 feats and it even needs a trait really) to make it work and I might add it only works on levels +10 and above. However castigator paladin really only needs 1 feat to faction (power attack) leaving us plenty to play around so let’s see if we get value for money.

Skill focus survival is a feat tax no matter how you see it (even if human or half-elf can help soften the blow) and ideally should be taken before lvl 10, so out of our 5 feats till level 10 one is given to power attack and one to skill focus leaving us 3 feats to play with… enough for a castigator to branch out.

Now the first eldritch heritage feat grants us Touch of Rage (Sp). On its own its sounds really cool but then you notice the 1 round duration and the standard action cost to activate and people go meh… Also it is a moral bonus that at small levels scales slowly ( at level 4 its +1 while at 13th when you get access to 4th lvl spells its +5 equal to what you get for the spell Bloodsworn Retribution). The thing is that the ability gets better as you level up reaching a +10 moral bonus at lvl 20. The duration can be improved with either of 2 traits (optimistic gambler a campaign depended trait & community minded a regional trait (although some rp limitation might apply). This alleviates one problem. The second issue can be alleviated by another feat Quicken spell like ability available at lvl 11. So now for 2 feats and a trait you get a +5 to +10 moral bonus to attack damage and will saves ( or +0 to +5 over spell Bloodsworn Retribution). I think it is a worthwhile investment at higher levels if you aim to increase damage. Are there any better combinations of feats at level 11+ to increase damage output?

The second eldritch heritage feat gives us Strength of the Beast (Ex) gives us up to +6 inherent str increase. This is 1 above what we could normally get if you have started game with an even number is str and used your ability score increase from leveling up to charisma this nets you +1 to hit and +1,5 to damage and saves you 25.000,00 gp x4. If not it just saves you 25.000,00 gp x5 and nets you the same results as if you had used wish 5 times. The way wealth by levels work the bonuses you get might come online earlier as well. Not too bad for a feat (better than weapon focus). I addition with the money saved you could perhaps add the property that increases your effective bloodline level by 4 from the robe (don’t remember the name of the item) to whatever you are currently wearing.

The third eldritch heritage feat I believe most people find worthwhile right? It improves the requirements its gives you large size on demand (that works regardless of creature type) and is overall vastly superior to enlarge person and better than righteous might.

The cost are high but so are the returns. This does not take into consideration the courageous enchantment as it would work with the spell Bloodsworn Retribution the same and it’s going to be errated soon anyway but there is that as well to push the numbers higher. A castigator has feats to spend and at higher levels the above combination shines. Now I wouldn’t say they are Blue as feats but with the exception of skill focus survival (red) and the third eldritch heritage feat (blue) the rest are green to yellow and thus should have a place in your guide.

Anyway that’s my thoughts I really wish to hear yours (especially on the better alternatives and why at higher levels) as I plan to build a paladin for a costume campaign that will go all the way up to 20.

Silver Crusade

The new Tyrant Anti-Paladin won't affect this guide much. It was kind of underwhelming as the first Alternative Class Archetype.


The Dread Vanguard is still the best archetype for an Anti Paladin and IMO is better than the base class. What Tyrant does is let you play a LE anti paladin for those groups whose DMs will not allow an AP to be anything but CE in alignment.


After many moons on hiatus, I'm finally able to get back to the forums again!

So... tabling discussions of builds for just a brief moment, has there been anything critical that has come out since the last iteration of the Guide that anyone feels requires a good look for inclusion?

Best wishes, all!

Silver Crusade

The Chosen One archetype from the Familiar Folio is huge. You get a familiar instead of your mount or bonded weapon. Because you get the familiar at level 1, everything from levels 1-4 gets rearranged. But once you hit level 4, you pretty much have all the standard paladin stuff.

Put aside for a moment that the familiar can cast Guidance at will and use a 1st level domain power once per day after level 3, on top of the normal scouting and fluff of having a familiar.

The key reason this archetype is such a big deal is that the familiar can Lay on Paws and even Channel Energy, which adds an extra healer to the group. The paladin no longer has to choose between healing his allies or attacking the enemy that damaged them - The Chosen One can do both in the same round with the help of his familiar. It's not something you'll be doing constantly, but in the tough fights, that boost in action economy is game changing.


Fromper wrote:

The Chosen One archetype from the Familiar Folio is huge. You get a familiar instead of your mount or bonded weapon. Because you get the familiar at level 1, everything from levels 1-4 gets rearranged. But once you hit level 4, you pretty much have all the standard paladin stuff.

Put aside for a moment that the familiar can cast Guidance at will and use a 1st level domain power once per day after level 3, on top of the normal scouting and fluff of having a familiar.

The key reason this archetype is such a big deal is that the familiar can Lay on Paws and even Channel Energy, which adds an extra healer to the group. The paladin no longer has to choose between healing his allies or attacking the enemy that damaged them - The Chosen One can do both in the same round with the help of his familiar. It's not something you'll be doing constantly, but in the tough fights, that boost in action economy is game changing.

I'm definitely going to check into this.


There have been some feats and spells that are worth considering for the added utility or options that are fun. Blade Tutor Spirit from Melee Tactics Toolbox is an amazing addition for any type of melee focused Paladin/Antipaladin, as it can reduce the attack penalty for using Power Attack and even lower the penalty you take for charging. Really increases the damage potential by virtue of making it easier to hit the target.

Divine Fighting Technique from Weapon Master's Handbook has an interesting feature. It is totally modular. If you don't meet the prerequisites to use Iomedae's technique, you can give up a mercy at the appropriate level. That gives new choices when choosing a mercy, as it could be given up for a buff that doesn't need you to use Lay on Hands.


What are your thoughts on the Insinuator archetype for the Antipaladin, Bodhizen? It's probably one of my favorite archetypes for the sheer flavor, but I'm not sure if losing access to Antipaladin spells is worth what it gives in return.


Ventnor wrote:
What are your thoughts on the Insinuator archetype for the Antipaladin, Bodhizen? It's probably one of my favorite archetypes for the sheer flavor, but I'm not sure if losing access to Antipaladin spells is worth what it gives in return.

Ventnor,

I'm sorry that I haven't been around in some time. To answer your question, I'm not sold on the Insinuator archetype as something that would be awesome to play. The idea that you can sort-of change your patron once per day to something within one step of your alignment and then you detect as that is oh-so-abusable. I'd always create lawful evil characters and then I could choose a neutral evil patron or a lawful neutral one (most of the time) just so that I could walk around fooling the masses. Being a neutral evil Insinuator gives you the best bang for the buck, though, since you can detect as lawful evil, chaotic evil, or true neutral. Still, I like fooling the paladin into thinking that I'm a trustworthy ally (muahahahaha!).

Smite Impudence doesn't thrill me, but it doesn't make me cringe, either. Most of the rest is a grab-bag, though Aura of Indomitability is twice as strong as the aura it replaces. Doubling its strength in exchange for dropping the penalty against compulsion effects isn't exactly balanced. Neither is the capstone ability, particularly since it doesn't define how often you can re-invoke an outsider.

Despite what it gives in return, I wouldn't drop the utility of your spellcasting. While you're not a full spellcaster, spellcasting comes in oh-so-handy in so many situations.

It's interesting, I'll grant you, but I think there's better out there.

Best wishes!

Grand Lodge

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So mercies got a huge buff with the healers handbook...like, I love paladins but some of these are balls to wall. I'm actually wondering if extra mercy is now a viable feat.
3rd level
Deceived: The target can immediately attempt a new saving throw to disbelieve any ongoing illusions that it failed to disbelieve within the last minute. Source PPC:HH
Riled: The paladin’s lay on hands also acts as calm emotions, but only for the purpose of suppressing morale bonuses (such as from the rage spell) and emotion effects that aren’t fear effects. Use the paladin’s level as the caster level. Source PPC:HH

6th level
Enfeebled: The paladin dispels any magical effects that are reducing one of the target’s ability scores (paladin’s choice). Source PPC:HH
Haunted: The paladin’s lay on hands also acts as protection from evil, but only for the purpose of allowing a new saving throw against enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) effects, making the target immune to any attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target, or preventing a life force from controlling the target (all as described in the second effect of protection from evil). Use the paladin’s level as the caster level. Source PPC:HH
Targeted: The paladin’s lay on hands also acts as sanctuary, using the paladin’s level as the caster level. The saving throw DC to negate this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the paladin’s level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier. Source PPC:HH

9th level
Confused: The target is no longer confused. Source PPC:HH
Injured: The target gains fast healing 3 for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the paladin’s level. Source PPC:HH
Restorative: The target heals 1d4 points of ability damage from a single ability score of the paladin’s choosing. The paladin must have the enfeebled mercy before selecting this mercy. Source PPC:HH

12th level
Amputated: The paladin’s lay on hands also acts as regenerate, but only for the purposes of regrowing severed body members, broken bones, and ruined organs. The paladin must have the injured mercy before she can select this mercy. Source PPC:HH
Ensorcelled: The paladin’s lay on hands also acts as dispel magic, using the paladin’s level as her caster level (maximum 20). Source PPC:HH
Petrified: The paladin’s lay on hands ability also acts as stone to flesh, but only for the purpose of removing the petrified condition from a creature. Source PPC:HH


Good to have some free paladiny and not-so-paladiny guide stuff out there. ;)


Any Advice for this Mercys?


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Friends and fans, the Guide is in the process of getting an update.

Best wishes!


Bodhizen wrote:

Friends and fans, the Guide is in the process of getting an update.

Best wishes!

any chance there will be a section on antipaladin cruelties?

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