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RPG Superstar 2015

To get better at throwing


Advice

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

So what are all the ways (in Pathfinder only, please) to increase range increments and/or reduce range increment penalties for thrown weapons? For a second I thought the Archer fighter archetype might help me, but alas, their stuff only works with bows. :P

Liberty's Edge

Barbarian[Hurler] archetype ...+10 to range increment (and, of course, you're a barbarian, meaning your damage increases when raging). Then you work your way up the Hurling rage-powers to do giant type stuff chucking massive boulders, etc.

Dark Archive

theres a trait called strong arm supple wrist (i think) it adds to range inc's


strong arm, supple wrist gives an extra ten feet if you move before throwing.

Edit: ninjad

Dark Archive

Luring Cavalier archetypes let's you ignore first 3 range increments with ranged ATT at 3rd level. + some real good benefits if you use firearms.


Hurler Archetype: +10' range
Far Shot feat: -1 per increment (instead of -2)
Distance Thrower feat: reduce range penalties by 2

Combining those three lets you throw, something with a 10' increment 60' with no penalty. 10' range + 10' from hurler = 20' range. -1 per increment from Far Shot, so 60' is at -2, and Distance Thrower ignores the first -2 range penalty.

That's not too shabby.

What's your goal here?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A light melee/throwing weapon with the agile enchantment? It's dex to damage.

Star Voter 2015

Too bad it's not very cost effective to throw magic weapons. If only we get some magic gloves that do for thrown weapons what magic ranged weapons do for ammunition.

Liberty's Edge

Strong Arm, Supple Wrist is ideal for a Hurling barbarian.

(Annoyance: like most of the rage power chains, you can't do your schtick until barb6, and will suck at it until high level.)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Beebs wrote:
What's your goal here?

To be able to shuriken people from across the room like a bad mutha. ;)


Take the arcane strike feat, and they are ALL magic weapons. Weapon Focus and Specialization would also work.

And, of course, all the myriad ways to add to attack rolls will also help.


I don't see any reason you couldn't craft a custom pair of gloves that treats shuriken or daggers exactly the same way a bow treats arrows. I would probably even use the same pricing structure.

The one point that might be worth bringing up is that you have to pay extra for strength adjusted bows, but usually by level four that cost is not significant.

Liberty's Edge

Petty Alchemy wrote:
Too bad it's not very cost effective to throw magic weapons. If only we get some magic gloves that do for thrown weapons what magic ranged weapons do for ammunition.

Yes, please. It would probably function much like an amulet of mighty fists.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Too bad it's not very cost effective to throw magic weapons. If only we get some magic gloves that do for thrown weapons what magic ranged weapons do for ammunition.

Sounds like next year RPG Superstar submission....

Liberty's Edge

Jiggy wrote:
Beebs wrote:
What's your goal here?
To be able to shuriken people from across the room like a bad mutha. ;)

So...you're liking that Flurry of Stars Hurler ninja I cooked up the other day, eh? :-D

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

That's what first made me think of it, though the idea of a guy whose M.O. is throwing shurikens from 30ft away regardless of the situation sounds kinda fun all on its own. :D


I fell in love with this feat when i read it:

Charging Hurler (Combat)

You know how to use your momentum to enhance your thrown weapon attacks.

Prerequisite: Point-Blank Shot.

Benefit: You can use the charge rules to make a thrown weapon attack. All the parameters of a charge apply, except that you must only move closer to your opponent, and you must end your movement within 30 feet of that opponent. If you do, you can make a single thrown weapon attack against that opponent, gaining the +2 bonus on the attack roll and taking a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

It does not reduce the penalties technically but the plus 2 takes care of the first range increment.

Dark Archive

Petty Alchemy wrote:
Too bad it's not very cost effective to throw magic weapons. If only we get some magic gloves that do for thrown weapons what magic ranged weapons do for ammunition.

GAUNTLETS OF THROWING

Price (Item Level): 2,000 gp (6th)
Body Slot: Hands
Caster Level: 3rd
Aura: Faint; (DC 16) transmutation
Activation: Swift(command)
Weight: -

This pair of flexible but tough maroon leather gauntlets has a complex sigil on each palm.

Gauntlets of throwing turn any handheld weapon into a deadly throwing weapon. When you activate gauntlets of throwing, you grant any one melee weapon you hold the throwing and returning properties (DMG 225-226) for 1 round.

This ability functions three times per day.

Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, magic stone, telekinesis.
Cost to Create: 1,000 gp, 80 XP, 2 days

From 3.5 MIC book

Gauntlet of Infinite Blades (MIC 101)

- produce a normal dagger (as a swift action) each dagger lasts 3 rounds- unlimited per day

the item has 5 charges (charges renew each day at dawn)

1 charge - dagger summoned is a +3 dagger. now that's an 18k gp item - but it lasts only 3 rounds

3 charges - dagger summoned is a +3 dagger of seeking (negates any form of miss chance)

5 charges - dagger summoned is a +3 bane dagger of seeking - you get to pick the type of bane when you summon it.

All for 6,500 gold pieces

Gauntlets of Extended Range
•Price (Item Level): 2000 gp (5th)
•Body Slot: Hands
•Caster Level: 5th
•Aura: Faint; (DC 17) transmutation
•Activation: --
•Weight: 1/2 lb
◦Each of these well-made gauntlets is set with small purple crystals that rest across the tops of the knuckles.
◦Whenever you throw a weapon or other object, gauntlets of extended range give the weapon a telekinetic push, doubling its range increment.

Liberty's Edge

Gauntlets of Extended Range are the only ones that fit the bill. Typically, bows don't have a limited number of charges in which to grant arrows +2 and keen, or whatever.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A large number of scabbards of vigor can allow a throwing weapon user to nova a few times per day.


Mergy wrote:
A large number of scabbards of vigor can allow a throwing weapon user to nova a few times per day.

How is that? A scabbard of vigor is a belt slot item. How do you get more than one to work?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Mergy wrote:
A large number of scabbards of vigor can allow a throwing weapon user to nova a few times per day.
How is that? A scabbard of vigor is a belt slot item. How do you get more than one to work?

You use one, take it off, put on a new one, use it, take it off, and rinse and repeat.


Ravingdork wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Mergy wrote:
A large number of scabbards of vigor can allow a throwing weapon user to nova a few times per day.
How is that? A scabbard of vigor is a belt slot item. How do you get more than one to work?
You use one, take it off, put on a new one, use it, take it off, and rinse and repeat.

I thought multiple items in one slot rendered all items unusable. Even if not, you are talking about taking a move action at least between draws. So no full round attacks for sure. As much as I would roll my eyes at a player who wanted to do this, I would allow it since he's just restricted himself to standing in one place and doing a single attack each round.

Of course I'd resolve the question about multiple items in one slot making them all fail first.

Edit: Hmm... using rings as an example I suppose if you wore a dozen scabbards, one of them would work. But the rest would not. If you took off the one that was working, then another one would become active. So technically I suppose this could work. But it's still going to ruin your chances of full attacking.

Dark Archive

Well let me contribute to the silliness...

Wand Bracelet (MIC): You can store four items to this bracelet, which appear as charms. It's a swift action to grab one of the items to your hand and a move action to store them back to the bracelet, or to swap a stored with a held item. Despite its name it can store any item that weights less than or equal to three pounds and can be held in one hand.
* You can wear two one on each arm.

Scabbard of Vigor

Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th

Slot belt; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 3 lbs.


WhipShire wrote:

Well let me contribute to the silliness...

Wand Bracelet (MIC): You can store four items to this bracelet, which appear as charms. It's a swift action to grab one of the items to your hand and a move action to store them back to the bracelet, or to swap a stored with a held item. Despite its name it can store any item that weights less than or equal to three pounds and can be held in one hand.
* You can wear two one on each arm.

Scabbard of Vigor

Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th

Slot belt; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 3 lbs.

So, you're saying that the scabbards would be fully active while on the bracelet? Or are you saying that you could take them off the bracelet, put them on your belt, then use them, then take them off and put them back on the bracelet again.

I thought slot items had to be equipped in a slot to work. From "Magic items on the body:"

prd wrote:
However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body, known as a “slot.”

Update: Also, since the scabbard itself weighs 3 pounds, the scabbards would have to be empty on the charm bracelet, meaning you'd not only have to put them on your belt, but you'd have to also put a weapon IN them before you could draw a weapon FROM them.

Dark Archive

I was not actually saying anything... lol Just 2 cents worth of thought following the path of the conversation. I agree with you my eyes would be rolling as well.

Once per day, as part of the action of drawing forth the weapon held by the scabbard, the wearer can order it to endow the weapon with an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The duration of the effect depends on the desired enhancement bonus for the weapon.

The Scabbard has to have the weapon drawn from it in order to grant the bonus so even with quick draw you would still be very limited by actions.


I was honestly very disappointed to learn that the scabbard of vigor occupied a belt slot. I was definitely going to buy one until I realized it would conflict with my belt of dexterity. Sigh. I love the item.

Of course you could possibly have a slotless scabbard created at a higher cost and strap it to your thigh... I think I will try that when I get my next load of treasure. Although I think I'll make it fit over my druid's shoulder and be made to hold a bow....

Slotless means twice the cost, right? So 3,600g? Meaning it would take four days to craft it?

Heh, but if it's slotless, now we've got Mergy's scenario that actually works... Hm..... interesting.

Dark Archive

PF SRD:

Adding New Abilities

Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection 2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

That could solve your problem.

Dark Archive

If 3.5 is allowed... the MIC book has a list of "common" effects, and locations where you can put them. As long as you are upgrading an existing magic item with one of these enchantments in one of the indicated slots, there is no 50% markup. Simply sum the cost of the two together and that is the total.

Another item that plays well is this...

Glove of Storing

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 6th

Slot hands; Price 10,000 gp (one glove); Weight —

Description

This device is a single leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds And must be able to be held in one hand. While stored, the item has negligible weight. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. a glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Spell durations Are not suppressed, but continue to expire. If the glove's effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly. a glove of storing uses up your entire hands slot. You may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot.

Liberty's Edge

A Hurling Charger cannot make effecting use of Returning weapons because they return to where he used to be, not where he went.

Quote:
A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.


Mike Schneider wrote:
A Hurling Charger cannot make effecting use of Returning weapons because they return to where he used to be, not where he went.
Quote:
A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.

As a GM I rule the weapon, being MAGICAL returns to the thrower wherever he/she is. I consider this the "GM trumps stupid rule" rule.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
As a GM I rule the weapon, being MAGICAL returns to the thrower wherever he/she is.
Since Returning is a magical weapon enhancement, I'd think it obvious that those who wrote the rule weren't overlooking anything.
Quote:
I consider this the "GM trumps stupid rule" rule

It's not a stupid rule -- it's to preclude 2hPA barbarians using the same weapon (uber falchion of doom) for both ranged and melee attacks.

Returning exists to help a fighter plink at cowards too chicken to come deal with him in melee (so he keeps a couple +1/Returning axes hanging on his belt to Quick Draw).


Mike Schneider wrote:
Quote:
As a GM I rule the weapon, being MAGICAL returns to the thrower wherever he/she is.
Since Returning is a magical weapon enhancement, I'd think it obvious that those who wrote the rule weren't overlooking anything.
Quote:
I consider this the "GM trumps stupid rule" rule

It's not a stupid rule -- it's to preclude 2hPA barbarians using the same weapon (uber falchion of doom) for both ranged and melee attacks.

Returning exists to help a fighter plink at cowards too chicken to come deal with him in melee (so he keeps a couple +1/Returning axes hanging on his belt to Quick Draw).

This is precisely what makes it a "stupid rule" in my opinion.

Let's say I'm an adventurer and I go to a magical craftsman and say "I want a dagger I can throw that will return to me." And the craftsman says "how about one that returns to the square you threw it from?"
"Are you an idiot? Do you have any idea at all how combat works?"

Liberty's Edge

Salesman, back to you: "I understand enough about combat to know that if you move, you're not making a full-attack, and therefore not doing much damage. So, if you stand still and throw four or five returning daggers, they all come back to you -- so watchya complaining about?"

= = =

Yeah; I'd like to make a hurling charger barbarian with a +1/returning giant boulder that does 2hPA 8d6 area attacks, then comes back to me after I complete my charge (with Quick Drawn keen slasher). :-P


My charger does not care about the weapon returning to him anyways (that's why i got ten)...

GOKAKU CR 5
Male Human (Shoanti) Fighter (Polearm Master) 6
CN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 19, touch 12, flat-footed 17 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +2 Dex)
hp 62 (6d10+18)
Fort +8, Ref +4, Will +2
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Adamantine Longspear +12/+7 (1d8+9/20/x3) and
Club +11/+6 (1d6+5/20/x2) and
Javelin +8/+3 (1d6+6/20/x2) and
Longspear +12/+7 (1d8+8/20/x3) and
Sickle +11/+6 (1d6+5/20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +11/+6 (1d3+5/20/x2)
Special Attacks Pole Fighting -3, Steadfast Pike +1
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 18/20, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Charging Hurler, Deadly Aim -2/+4, Far Shot, Improved Charging Hurler, Opening Volley, Point Blank Shot, Quick Draw, Two-Handed Thrower
Traits Nomadic (Bas'o): Knowledge (Geography), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +1, Climb +11, Escape Artist +1, Fly +1, Handle Animal +2, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (Geography) +9, Profession (Gardener) +4, Ride +7, Stealth +1, Survival +10, Swim +9
Languages Common, Orc, Shoanti
Combat Gear +1 Adamantine Longspear, Club, Javelin (10), Longspear, Masterwork Buckler, Rhino Hide, Sickle; Other Gear Backpack (12 @ 33.5 lbs), Bedroll, Belt of Giant Strength, +2, Blanket, winter, Flint and steel, Grappling hook, Pouch, belt (1 @ 0 lbs), Rations, trail (per day) (6), Rope, hempen (50 ft.), Shaving Kit, Soap (per lb), Spade or shovel, Waterskin, Whetstone
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Charging Hurler May use charge rules to make thrown weapon attack
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Far Shot Halve the range increment penalty for extended range.
Improved Charging Hurler Every muscle in your body adds its force to your thrown weapons.

Prerequisites: Charging Hurler, Point-Blank Shot.

Benefit: When you use Charging Hurler, your target can be at any range up to your weapon's maximum range. If your t
Opening Volley Successful ranged attack grants +4 on next melee attack roll
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Pole Fighting -3 (Ex) Use a spear or polearm against adjacent targets with a -3 penalty.
Quick Draw Draw a weapon as a free action. Throw at full rate of attacks.
Steadfast Pike +1 (Ex) +1 to hit on readied attacks and AoO with polearms & spears.
Two-Handed Thrower Gain Str bonus when using two hands to throw a one or two-handed weapon

Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
..................................................................
I mean the Javelins serve a purpose but the Rhino Hide armor and the other feats just allow me to ping damage better then most while i close the gap and benefit from opening volley.

Star Voter 2015

Too bad returning comes back just before the next turn, so you can't full attack with a single returning thrown weapon. It's really tough for the thrown weapon users out there, at least, the ones that want to make it their main combat style.

Whipsire, I'm thinking something much simpler. Something like:

Magic Throwing Gloves +1 (2k gp)
When you throw something while wearing these gloves, that weapon gets a +1 enhancement bonus.

And you can customize them the same way you customize any magic ranged weapon.


Petty Alchemy wrote:

Too bad returning comes back just before the next turn, so you can't full attack with a single returning thrown weapon. It's really tough for the thrown weapon users out there, at least, the ones that want to make it their main combat style.

Whipsire, I'm thinking something much simpler. Something like:

Magic Throwing Gloves +1 (2k gp)
When you throw something while wearing these gloves, that weapon gets a +1 enhancement bonus.

And you can customize them the same way you customize any magic ranged weapon.

Why can't I shake the thought of peppering a ghost with +1 ghost touch rotten tomatoes?

Star Voter 2015

Mr. Greene wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:

Too bad returning comes back just before the next turn, so you can't full attack with a single returning thrown weapon. It's really tough for the thrown weapon users out there, at least, the ones that want to make it their main combat style.

Whipsire, I'm thinking something much simpler. Something like:

Magic Throwing Gloves +1 (2k gp)
When you throw something while wearing these gloves, that weapon gets a +1 enhancement bonus.

And you can customize them the same way you customize any magic ranged weapon.

Why can't I shake the thought of peppering a ghost with +1 ghost touch rotten tomatoes?

Not even death can free you from the reach of jerks.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Mr. Greene wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:

Too bad returning comes back just before the next turn, so you can't full attack with a single returning thrown weapon. It's really tough for the thrown weapon users out there, at least, the ones that want to make it their main combat style.

Whipsire, I'm thinking something much simpler. Something like:

Magic Throwing Gloves +1 (2k gp)
When you throw something while wearing these gloves, that weapon gets a +1 enhancement bonus.

And you can customize them the same way you customize any magic ranged weapon.

Why can't I shake the thought of peppering a ghost with +1 ghost touch rotten tomatoes?
Not even death can free you from the reach of jerks.

It was just an image that popped into my head. Ghost stand up comedian on stage getting killed as it were. The wording that "you though something" instead of "you throw a ranged weapon" leaving it open in my mind for fruits, vegetables exc. My brain went off on a interesting tangent and the image made me laugh so I though I would share it.

I am sorry if it came off jerkish, that was not the intent.


Mike Schneider wrote:

Barbarian[Hurler] archetype ...+10 to range increment (and, of course, you're a barbarian, meaning your damage increases when raging). Then you work your way up the Hurling rage-powers to do giant type stuff chucking massive boulders, etc.

We had a halfling go this route. He spent a bunch of money on feather tokens (anchor) and then used vital strike. Sometimes he would drop them on targets (touch attack), dealing 3d6 damage. Other times he had to throw them dealing 1d10 damage. It was rather humorous.

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