Mark Moreland Director of Brand Strategy |
I won't lie; it was Final Fantasy that got me into gaming way back in my youth. While the franchise and I have had a tumultuous relationship over the years, namely as some games became more future/tech-oriented and less fantasy/steampunk, I still get every game that comes out on a system I own as soon as possible. So today my preorder of FFXII-2 came. I was less than thrilled with XXIII, with its railroad movie-watching experience and then grinding-intensive post-game to get all achievements, but I've heard this one solves a lot of the problems in the previous outing.
Anyone else playing it, and if so, what are your thoughts?
Thursty Canadian Maplecakes |
Mark Moreland Director of Brand Strategy |
I played the intro over lunch, and my first impression is that the live cinematic interaction is neat. It certainly keeps one engaged when the visuals get extra flashy without it feeling like you're just watching a movie and clicking A to progress to the next line. Still waiting to see how I like the whole monster-in-my-party aspect, but I should have a better grasp on that when I get a bit farther.
Lathiira |
Mine just arrived today. Too bad I started Skyrim last week, so it'll just have to wait. A sad thing, that I won't put aside another game for a Final Fantasy. I'm hoping they've given us more room to explore; the more linear nature of the last few games in the series has been a serious flaw IMO.
For me, I learned about FF1 while in high school from a friend. Purchased it for my Nintendo, loved it, played it to death (or nearly so). I've enjoyed the series, even if there have been elements in any given game I dislike (e.g. FF 8 and having to drain magic out of enemies). My true problem has been the more linear nature of the story as we've gotten to more advanced consoles, in exchange for prettier graphics. Sure, I think Lightning and Fang are both quite attractive, but I want to explore the world and put the plot aside from time to time!
As for random encounters, I coined a term way back with FF 4: "Final Fantasy Syndrome". When you try to take 4 steps and get 3 random encounters due to the insane encounter generator. It's like that for me in most of those games; I'll have periods where moving is nigh-impossible. Luckily, I tend to end up over-leveled for the next boss fight that way :)
I also miss the original composer's music. Not that the stuff from X-2 onward was bad, but the pieces I remember best are Nobuo's work in the series (e.g. Maria & Draco, One-Winged Angel, Bombing Run, etc.).
Gururamalamaswami |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I covet this game. Haven't finished XIII. I got distracted by the Dragon Age games (which I've played through about a gazillion times to see all the different story lines).
I enjoyed the hell out of XII and I've completed it as far as the plot goes but have never had the ambition to go after the really badass bounty hunter fights.
Sunderstone |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The "monster in the party" thing is a nod to the DQ series from Enix most likely.
I first got into FF back on the SNES with FF3 (later 6 on the PSOne). I bought the PSOne because of it. Same with the PS2 and FFX. I even bought the PSP because I heard VII was going to be downloadable.
As for square dropping the ball, the last good games from them were FFX and DQVIII, both on the PS2. I was never a fan of DQ until VIII, I always considered it the cutesy, kiddie alternative to FF. It grew on me.
My favorite FF games are VI, VII, and X, in that order too. I also recommend Xenogears and Chrono Trigger both are available on the PS network as downloadable PSOne classics. I will likely buy a Vita (though I never get to use a handheld, my psp and DSI XL are paperweights) just to store the PSOne classics.
Square needs to go back to the old formula with control over all party members and an open world of random encounters to grind up levels if we want to.
Jenner2057 |
I'll admit, I was obsessed with the Final Fantasy series back in the day. Tore through them as sooon as they came out. But FFXI broke me. Just had no desire to see the series as an MMO (and also saw my college roommate nearly fail out due to a horrible Ever-Crack addiction... kids, just say "no.")
After XI, just had no desire to go back for XII or XIII (plus I was far too busy with WoW. ... Don't judge me. LOL)
HOWEVER, a continuation of any of the older ones (VI-2, VII-2, etc) very well could be an irresistable pull back. I'd be curious to see that. Shrug.
Sissyl |
Sissyl wrote:I want and do not want a FFVIII-2. So so so much.Have to admit, I never much cared for VIII. I wasn't a fan of the draw system.
Well now, the draw system is inane, terribly bad design, and a time waster beyond reason. Lucky thing is, you can refine those spells from cards instead, meaning you really have to draw very few times. They made some central error there. Even so... The rest of the game is brilliant. Conpared to the universally beloved VII, the game is far more than a simple chase, handling several diferent plotlines, numerous suggested themes and so on.
Jenner2057 |
Well now, the draw system is inane, terribly bad design, and a time waster beyond reason. Lucky thing is, you can refine those spells from cards instead, meaning you really have to draw very few times. They made some central error there. Even so... The rest of the game is brilliant. Conpared to the universally beloved VII, the game is far more than a simple chase, handling several diferent plotlines, numerous suggested themes and so on.
I too hated the draw system but found VIII's storyline very engaging. Yes some of the characters were kind of corny (SEED? Really?) and the main protagonist a bit of a standoffish jerk, but it still had some of my favorite cut scenes of the whole series.
Mark Moreland Director of Brand Strategy |
I don't think they'll ever revisit one of the older games in the series with a sequel. My impression of both sequels is that they were done because a lot of the character design and mechanical backbone of the game was already programmed. I imagine they'd need to start over from scratch to get something that wasn't originally in HD up to the graphical and interface standards we expect of modern games.
All that said, I really like the time travel aspect of the game. If it weren't Oscar season I'd be playing it non-stop when not working but I have 62 movies to get through by the 26th.
BenS |
I just played XIII last month; finished main plot and did all but a handful of the most difficult Marks at the end. So in a way, I was primed to jump into this one. But even though it supposedly fixes a lot of the complaints about XIII, I'll wait until the price is halved before buying it.
Why? Reviews have noted it is significantly shorter than any FF game has a right to be. About 30 hours for the main quest?! Yes, like XIII, that doesn't end the game, but w/ XIII I didn't finish the main quest until well past 60-70 hours.
Another thing that annoys me: DLC to come to pad out the stories of different characters. There's no way I'm paying extra for something that should already be in the game. Especially a shorter than reasonable (for a FF) game.
I'll check the price again come summer. In the meantime, I hope those who have it now, enjoy it.
lastknightleft |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sissyl wrote:Well now, the draw system is inane, terribly bad design, and a time waster beyond reason. Lucky thing is, you can refine those spells from cards instead, meaning you really have to draw very few times. They made some central error there. Even so... The rest of the game is brilliant. Conpared to the universally beloved VII, the game is far more than a simple chase, handling several diferent plotlines, numerous suggested themes and so on.I too hated the draw system but found VIII's storyline very engaging. Yes some of the characters were kind of corny (SEED? Really?) and the main protagonist a bit of a standoffish jerk, but it still had some of my favorite cut scenes of the whole series.
I'm the opposite, I loved the draw system, and thought the story of FF8 was mind numbingly stupid (altough I am a sucker for a happy ending). My favorite FFs are 7 and 9, I also stopped playing after ten as I never upgraded to a PS2 so the only reason I beat 10 was that a roommate let me use his.
lastknightleft |
I don't think they'll ever revisit one of the older games in the series with a sequel. My impression of both sequels is that they were done because a lot of the character design and mechanical backbone of the game was already programmed. I imagine they'd need to start over from scratch to get something that wasn't originally in HD up to the graphical and interface standards we expect of modern games.
All that said, I really like the time travel aspect of the game. If it weren't Oscar season I'd be playing it non-stop when not working but I have 62 movies to get through by the 26th.
Actually they made a sequel for 4 that is downloadable over the Wii virtual console.
Arnwyn |
Actually they made a sequel for 4 that is downloadable over the Wii virtual console.
With the superior version on the PSP combined with the original and a new interlude, for the fraction of the price of the Wii 'episodes'.
Final Fantasy was definitely one of my earliest games, and I've picked up every one since. They've never been that good since IX, but still decent (though XIII was quite bad). Heard XIII-2 was better than the first, so I picked it up. (Though there are problems already... too short, DLC to pad the game...)
Still... it's disappointing where this series has gone. As Sunderstone notes above, FF needs full control over all party members and an open world to come back as an absolute minimum for this series to shine again. How the mighty have fallen.
HUGE XIII-2 spoiler:
Jenner2057 |
Still... it's disappointing where this series has gone. As Sunderstone notes above, FF needs full control over all party members and an open world to come back as an absolute minimum for this series to shine again. How the mighty have fallen.
Absolutely agree with you, Arnwyn (and Sunderstone). Though -in all fairness- that's just from what I've heard and read.
Like I said: they lost me at XI with the MMO route.archmagi1 |
As a fan who like XIII, XIII-2 is leagues better and is right up there with VI, VII, and XII in my top 4. Its less of a corridor shooter like X and XIII, and quite like XII in scope of roam ability.
Only being about 10 hours into it (Completed 1.5 zones after new bodham), I haven't really got to the juicy bits yet (Gold Saucer whatever clone, please!).
A lot of people complain about their DLC scheme, but honestly guys, its just the JRPG market trying to mimic the West. Look at ME2: There are like 4 DLC which are fleshing out other characters, and little more than half a dozen missions each. Take the 8 or so DLC for Dragon Age, same boat. Criticizing XIII-2 for using our traditional western money grab method of expansion is a bit pot-kettle.
archmagi1 |
HUGE XIII-2 spoiler:
** spoiler omitted **
I've read a spoiler of the ending already, but I don't see it any worse than:
FF8 was fun, but the story was like dried glue, dull and gray.
BenS |
A lot of people complain about their DLC scheme, but honestly guys, its just the JRPG market trying to mimic the West. Look at ME2: There are like 4 DLC which are fleshing out other characters, and little more than half a dozen missions each. Take the 8 or so DLC for Dragon Age, same boat. Criticizing XIII-2 for using our traditional western money grab method of expansion is a bit pot-kettle.
Two wrongs don't make a right. No matter how much I've enjoyed a game--and to be on the record, ME2 became my favorite video game of all time, toppling Deus Ex--I have never, and never will, go for the money grab of DLC.
What I could contemplate is something akin to the old "expansion packs", downloaded digitally, warranting paying extra for. But they would need to be massive, and of very high quality.
Am I in the minority among gamers? I have no idea, but it's a line in the sand I'm not willing to cross. So I hope the Japanese don't emulate the Western gaming trend too much in that direction. It's bad enough most of my favorite JPRGs are simply not being made any more for actual consoles (if at all). I'd hate to have to give up FF too b/c they thought it would be cool to do an "Alan Wake" episodic treatment.
Off my soapbox, I'm glad you're enjoying the game. Is the monster hunting/collecting similar to DragonQuest VIII (?)? If so, that could be cool.
Dorje Sylas |
I had to stop without beating 10 because I totally messed up the sphere grid system and couldn't beat the mid-point Seymour at the wedding. Then I learned you could swap out items mid-battle and my min-maxer mind just said "okay what's the point, I auto-win this by having all the immunity gear, I don't even have to *try* and break this like back in FF8."
The straw that broke my groups collective back came in FF-12 when one of my friends (call him Player) got to the end fight. Unfortunately I wasn't there for this but one of my other friends (call him Watcher) was. Paraphrasing:
Watcher: I think this the final fight.
Player: No, I don't think so. It can't be. It's to easy
Watcher: Maybe your right (thinking of FF7's 3 in a row full on boss fights)
... Not to long later ...
Player & Watcher: Are those the end credits? It just ended. Guess that was the end fight.
When a game gets to a point where even two long time players of Final Fantasies have difficulty figuring out of whether or not the game is ENDING, kinda says a lot about where the franchise has ended up.
-- Although I will admit I did enjoy Chaos Rings (not Final Fantasy, but not far removed from it) on iOS. I just wish Square Enix was charing twice of the "HD" iPad version. If it was half-priced in-App upgrade I may have gone for it. As it is I've stayed away from their other titles on iOS for the pricing scheme. I haven't even updated CR recently because they loaded it down even voice tracks, taking up extra space that isn't really needed. I'll still keep an eye and see if they change that and get iCloud support for storing/transferring saves across iOS devices.
archmagi1 |
The monster hunting is interesting.
You only have 2 party members (Serah and Noel), and your third party member is filled out by the "Paradigm Pack", a trio of captured monsters. Each of the monsters you capture has a role (COM, SEN, SYN, etc.) and you use the three in your pack to customize your available paradigms.
Past that, each monster has a crystarium grid, which rather than upgrading with xp (sorry, CP), you upgrade with combat loot (some of which can be purchased). Say you have a cait sith and a flanitor. Both are MED roles. You spend time upgrading both of them with loots, and at a point in time where you want, you can have one monster eat the other. This works like the weapon upgrade system in XIII, with some of the traits being locked and some transferring over (but not stacking, so 2 HP+10% won't make a HP+20%). You can also transfer over spells if the monster being eaten is the same role as the eating monster.
As far in the game as I'm in, I only have shop access to the tier 1 loot at the shop, so my tier 2 monsters (either base tier 2 or already upgraded the crystarium once) and higher have to rely solely on loot drops to advance.
Its pretty engaging, and allows for some unique cherry picking of abilities. I imagine some of the tier 5 monsters late game have some spells and traits that would be excellent if you have a low tier monster eat them.
TriOmegaZero |
TriOmegaZero wrote::D Isn't that one of the fun things to do on the internet, point out when one thinks Final Fantasy died?Arnwyn wrote:Final Fantasy was definitely one of my earliest games, and I've picked up every one since. They've never been that good since...Flame on! :)
Yeah, I was sad they stopped at VI. :3
Alkwraith |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I got the game the day it came out, but didn't actually get a chance to actually sit down and play it till last night. Not very far, just to the point where you get your first monster partners. But so far.. I don't know. Like XIII before it, it slowly introduces concepts and ideas over the course of the first several hours, so I haven't really gotten the chance to see the all the parts of the system at once in action.
Like many people on this thread I've played (not necessarily beaten) all the non-MMO Final Fantasy games that I could get my hands on. While I was initially disappointed with XIII once I accepted the design chooses that the developers made I was able to sit back and enjoy the game. I've found that if you don't try to compare the various Final Fantasy games to each other they are all fairly enjoyable and well made games. I suppose it's only inevitable that we compare them since they all have Final Fantasy in their titles. I also wonder sometimes if "The Time Before Final Fantasy Started To Suck(TM)" isn't a product of our nostalgia as much as any perceived increase/decrease in the quality of the games. When the first few FF games came out there wasn't many other RPGs to compare them to so they all seemed ground-breaking and innovated because we'd not played many things like them before, but now that RPGs are common the bar is much higher to just stand out from the crowd.
Sunderstone |
It has nothing to do with nostalgia for me.
Back then, Square put some good games besides FF like Chrono Cross and Xenogears. There wasn't much innovation throughout them all or much by way of comparable games, but they had great story and atmosphere with freedom to roam an open world and grind for levels or better more interesting ways to beat the game (like chocobo breeding for the Knights of the Round or whatever it was called). Also being able to control your whole party is one sacred cow of FF that is well liked.
I don't like comparing newer offerings to the old ones but a spade is a spade. Square has changed much as far as their games go. XII for example, had no intersting characters for me as well as an extremely uninteresting world. XIII had nice cinematic scenes but that was it for me. It was just going through a tunnel with control of only one party member to boot. X-2 was the first nail in the square coffin for me, I enjoyed X but the rehashed areas with the Charlie's Angels overtones spoiled it. YMMV.
XIII-2 is the first FF that I have ever passed on.
The above of course is purely my opinion. Nostalgic memories are nice but it's not where Alot of us are coming from with our not liking the latest FFs.
:)
Jenner2057 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
+1 to everything Sunderstone said.
I know it's not all nostalgia because just 2 years ago I dusted off FFVI and played all the way through it again.* It's STILL a great game that kicks the pants right off a lot of other CRPGs today.
*Oddly enough, I did this because some of us were wondering exactly what you asked: were these games good just because of a lack of competition? Answer: FFVI (at least) still stands up just fine.
Arnwyn |
I also wonder sometimes if "The Time Before Final Fantasy Started To Suck(TM)" isn't a product of our nostalgia as much as any perceived increase/decrease in the quality of the games.
Since I've been playing the older games today (or rather, watching as my wife plays them for the first time), I can definitively say that:
"Nope. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it. The quality of the new FFs is an issue."
Dal Selpher |
XII for example, had no intersting characters for me as well as an extremely uninteresting world.
Wow. I had a TOTALLY opposite feeling for XII - the only character I didn't like was Penelo - all the other I found fascinating and sweet. I agree with you on the world though - that was a bit lackluster and drab, but man did I enjoy the characters. Basch, Vossler, Balthier, Fran... loved them all.
VIII was the last FF I've been able to get all the way through and beat. IX, for some reason, is just missing some kind of "it" factor for me so I can't stick with it. I've seen X and XII beaten, but I was at college and the console wasn't mine, and as such never got the opportunity to finish either of those on my own.
Haven't seen anything about X-2 or XIII or XIII-2, but if I had a PS3 I can pretty well guarantee you I'd have them.
Lathiira |
IMHO, FF7 began a change in priorities for the series. Graphics became much more important around this point. Mind you, I don't mind better-looking games, but we have an increased emphasis on the appearance of the world. This is good, as it creates an immersive experience. Gameplay and story kept up for a while, but I think about the time we got to XII the graphics took priority; I couldn't deal with most of the characters except Balthier and Fran and found combat annoying due to the AI of the NPCs, for example. Beautiful to look at, not that much fun to play. In XIII, same deal with better AI but more plot rail-roading. I'm hoping that when I eventually get to XIII-2 (sorry, Skyrim was here first!) that I like the characters more and the story is more open.
Dragon78 |
FF6 is my favorite in the series by far. I liked 9, 10, and 10-2, 7 is not bad but a lot story was cut from it and it was a strange game. I like the characters from 7 but the graphics, I can't play it anymore. I haven't played 13 yet and have no interest in online games. As for 12, it is the most hated one in the series for me.
Enevhar Aldarion |
archmagi1,
You should be far enough in to encounter it, so capture a Spiranthes (I think that is how it is spelled). I am about 30 hours in now, though not all of that is main story, and I just replaced it with a Green Chocobo. For me, it seems the hardest to get are the Sentinel monsters.
As for the previous FF's, I have played and beaten 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 12, and 13. I have played, but not beaten, all of the first five except the one only released in the US on the DS. I also love FF Tactics, but I just can't seem to get through to the end of it. As much as I enjoyed 6 and 7, the graphics just keep me from going back and playing them again. Oh, and I played 4 and 6 while the SNES was still a new console, not as some retro thing with a re-released version, so I am not some youngster who can't handle old school graphics. As for 7, even though it is a PS1 game, there is something about the graphics that keeps me away. It would also be very hard for me to say which one is my favorite, but if they were all laid out before me to pick one to play again, I think it would be a toss-up between 9 and 12.