I currently play a very similar concept, with only minor deviations.
I think almost every single advice given by Porpentine makes perfect sense; but if you play the archer from level one, which I did not, I'd still say grab Clustered Shots.
There is at least one other zen archer guide around that really isn't half that good.
Improved Precise Shot is not needed if you can get a seeking bow, because seeking is even better than IPS.
I took Big Game Hunter instead of Hammer the Gap, because I do not like the mechanics of the latter, already calculating enough things during combat. I made some other minor feat changes, but I would not generally recommend them, just a matter of style.
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I currently play a very similar concept, with only minor deviations.
I think almost every single advice given by Porpentine makes perfect sense; but if you play the archer from level one, which I did not, I'd still say grab Clustered Shots.There is at least one other zen archer guide around that really isn't half that good.
Improved Precise Shot is not needed if you can get a seeking bow, because seeking is even better than IPS.
I took Big Game Hunter instead of Hammer the Gap, because I do not like the mechanics of the latter, already calculating enough things during combat. I made some other minor feat changes, but I would not generally recommend them, just a matter of style.
actually, Improved Precise Shot IS needed for any and all archers as it ignores cover and some concealment, while the seeking property inores ALL concealment miss chances.
So the 2 abilities overlap, on some things, but BOTH are required to get by all of cover, except Total cover.
Again, seeking is good, and overlaps a small amount with IPS (concealment), but not everything, so both are needed.
I also made some feat changes, but kept hammer the gap. The zen archer and sohei are the only real ranged characters that can benefit greatly from hammer the gap, with so many attacks. Big game hunter is an amazing feat, especially later on where many more enemies are more likely to be large or bigger.
Happy to see this is still proving useful.
In Pathfinder terms the guide is quite old now, so please do continue to update it with new gear, feat and etcetera options - and older alternative feats, too.
Clustered Shots is certainly a strong feat, for example. It doesn't do much for One, though - or for any archer at very high levels - since a +5 bow renders it largely redundant (Epic DR withstanding). I'm not fond of having that looming redundancy, myself, but if you're not playing to high levels, Clustered Shots is gold. (And I suppose it comes back into play if you're heading into epic levels, but that's a whole 'nother ballgame).
I swear I will post that sorcerer guide soonish.
My DM likes to throw out dr/- types now and then so a +5 bow won't help with that. For this, clustered sorts is the only real route to go when dealing with that. Otherwise, epic dr is the only issue.
I think it's:
+2 bow: +2 enhancement damage
Composite bow: +2 strength damage
Deadly aim: +4 damage (and -2 to hit)
Weapon Specialization feat: +2 damage
Point Blank Shot: +1 damage (assuming close range)
(And no, it's not a stupid question. Keeping track of what all these feats and bonuses do isn't easy.)
2-3 ST + 2 WS +4 Deadly Aim + 1-2 enhancement +0-1 Point Blank Shot = +9-12
Just check the math:
+12 to hit makes an average of 8.2 of damage per attack,
+10 to hit gives you a DPA of 9.3
@crippledlord:
The attack at 6th Level should be +6BAB +6Wis +2magic (Bow) +1Point Blank Shot +1Weapon Focus -2 Deadly Aim -2 Flurry = +12
@crippledlord:
The attack at 6th Level should be +6BAB +6Wis +2magic (Bow) +1Point Blank Shot +1Weapon Focus -2 Deadly Aim -2 Flurry = +12
BAB at 6th level is only +4
BAB at 6th level is only +4@crippledlord:
The attack at 6th Level should be +6BAB +6Wis +2magic (Bow) +1Point Blank Shot +1Weapon Focus -2 Deadly Aim -2 Flurry = +12
Flurry uses monk level as bab.
Ha...I play the class and forgot about that...
(3) A zen archer can certainly take vows, rules as written. This is discussed early in the Guide, in the spoiler section before Beastmass, marked 'bits readers might disagree with.' Essentially, a zen archer lacks Still Mind, just like a ninja: both can take vows; both have nothing to lose.
No. You can not 'double dip' an existing ability that is changed by multiple archetypes, or in this case, Vows. This isn't something that people disagree with, this is something that the RULES disagree with.
Also, how are Ninja, an alternate class from the Rogue, dipping into the Monk vows?The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature, even if the monk abandons all his vows.
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature.
If one thing 'replaces' Still Mind from an Archetype, including Vows, you can not use any other Archetype that also replaces the Still Mind class feature. Vows and the Zen Archer are incompatible.
The only thing that can come close to doing this is the Qinggong monk, as it specifically states:
Can a qinggong monk take a second archetype if the character doesn't swap out abilities the second archetype requires?
Yes. However, the other archetype takes priority over the various abilities granted at each level, and the character can't delay taking an ability that the other archetype replaces—he must allow the second archetype to replace the standard ability at the standard class level.
Using the 'have nothing to lose' doesn't work. If you can get two abilities that specifically say they replace the same feature, then you can also take any number of archetypes and get all of the benefits, which is just silly.
However, despite this, your build is still awesome. It just merely downgrades it from the 'brokenly awesome' category.
I've been considering a Zen Archer build for a long time now. I have considered the Emp. Sorcerer dip and the Inquisitor dip. I've also heard that they work extremely well with ninja, but that character was a gestault, so that would make a big difference. If third party resources were legal, Serene Barbarian would be a wonderful 1 level dip. It subs "serenity" for rage and changes stat boosts to DEX and WIS.
Playing my 4th level zen at her qingong monk for last 2 months. Has been surprisingly very helpful and powerful when needed. Can't wait till higher levels for more zen archer fun.
How has going qingong been helpful? I haven't looked that far into it.
I was referring more to the zen archer overall, but as for the qinngong part of the character it has actually been wuite helpful.
Well on a few separate occasions I knew myself, or the party would be Ina a fight situation fairly soon. I was able to buff my already somewhat decent AC of 19 at level 4 to AC 21 for 40 min with Barkskin. That +2 higher AC even for 40 min really helped save my butt a few times when the DM was rolling particularly well. Didn't do him to much good. I might have had the range but so have some of the opponents, so that added AC boost plus whatever cover or concealment I could get really started to stack up pretty high in my favor.
I plan on later doing a whole bunch of swap outs, next being for restoration at 7th level I believe or 8th.
I'm not sure wether to be insulted or patting devs on the back this archtype.
Honest comment here devs: Why didn't you do what did with this archtype with other classes archtypes? It's perfectly balanced/optimized, and especially perfect for PFS play. Great damage, defense and three great saves. It's probably too good.
"actually, Improved Precise Shot IS needed for any and all archers as it ignores cover and some concealment, while the seeking property inores ALL concealment miss chances."
Thanks for Grizzly the Archer for pointing that out.
Some suggestions for items:
- swarmbane clasp (useful for all martials) for the earlier levels
- golembane scarab (later levels; it is currently helpful as we are fightng adamantine golems)
- ghosttouch arrows (very expensive but handy vs. incorporal enemies)
- jingasa of the fortunate soldier (again, useful for all martials)
- most important alternative arrows are blunt arrows, cheap & superb. besides ghosttouch arrows my zen archer uses no other special arrows, only normal and blunt, until now that was always enough)
Read about the following in another thread: "Weapon Blanch, Ghost Touch"
Cost: 200 gp, usable for ten arrows.
Buy 50 normal arrows, "blanch" them = 50 Ghost Touch arrows for 1.000 gp instead of 8.000 gp.
from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
I'm currently trying to convince my DM that an Inquistor can use the Baldric with a bow. It says non-inquistors have to attune it to light or melee weapon. At least that's how I read it.
I'm building the same character (ZAM/Inquisitor), but I'm adding a level of Serene Barbarian (check it out!) and Empyreal Sorcerer. Probably just 2 levels of Inquisitor, but thinking about the 3rd for teamwork feats like Target of Opportunity.
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I'm currently trying to convince my DM that an Inquistor can use the Baldric with a bow. It says non-inquistors have to attune it to light or melee weapon. At least that's how I read it.
The way I read it, you should be able to use the Bane Baldric on your longbow. You're still an Inquisitor because it specifically says that an Ex-Inquisitor "slipped into corruption or changed to a prohibited alignment." As long as you didn't have to change your alignment too far from your deity's to be able to take the Monk/Zen Archer levels, you should still be seen as an Inquisitor for abilities and items.
I haven't had any luck convincing him. His argument is that a baldric is used to hold a melee weapon and had no useful interaction with a bow to start with and should therefore only be used with a melee weapon. It's hard to argue with that point so I just gave up trying. I might be able to create (or have created) something else that does the same thing though.
Bow with 'merciful' property.
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One tip for PFS players:
Exile is not a viable PFS trait, however you can take Resilient (Combat) and have the +1 fort saves from a couple different sources including: Heart of Clay (Regional - Lingshen) from the Dragon Empire Primer, Isgeri Orphan (Regional - Isger) from the Inner Sea Primer, or Mana Wastes Survivalist (Regional - Mana Wastes) also from the Inner Sea Primer.
Brilliant guide/story of ONE
Now I can't shake the image of a Solar with his garden gloves on weeding the turnip patch.
Question about Perfect Strike and Flurry of blows.
I just wanted a little Clarification. I'm new at pathfinder. So at first level a Zen Archery Monk has two bow shots when I do a flurry of blows. If I use perfect strike with my attack, do I roll two d20s for one of those bow shots or do I roll 2 d20s for each shot. Meaning does perfect strike work for every attack on a full attack or just one attack of a full attack?
Thanks
One attack only and only once pr round.