Zen and the Art of Monk Maintenance: A Guide to the Zen Archer


Advice

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Scarab Sages

Excellent guide, between StreamofTheSky's and this one, I think just about anything you want to know regarding zen archers is thoroughly addressed. Though I think I will not point my GM in the direction of Beastmass just yet in case he is prone to panic. :)

One question that I haven't seen a clear answer to yet:

Perfect Strike - I have been assuming this is one use per attack, meaning a three shot arrow flurry would use three perfect strikes if I wanted it to apply to all three. Is this the correct assumption?


Perfect Strike is for one attack, yes. But, it can only be used once/round.

Once you get Ki Focus Bow, you CAN do a stunning, serenity, punishing, perfect arrow attack combo all in one round though, which is why ki focus bow is so awesome. :)

The Exchange

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Overall I'd have to say I really like your guide. Very useful and although I'd already decided to make a zen archer this has raised some interesting thoughts on how I'll go about it.

One thing I'd like to point out. You recommend taking Pinpoint Targeting at 14th level and using it with Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike. Both must be used as a standard action and so cannot be used together. So that synergy is not really there. However I don't really see that any of the other bonus feat options for 14th are any better.

Also in your optional feat selection builds, for your Reflex Plan you did not mention the need for Rapid Shot to be taken in order to qualify for Snap Shot. I'm assuming you'd take it as one of your bonus feats but you made no mention of which you'd switch it out for.


Thanks for the brilliantly written guide.

Questions:
What do you make of Far Shot? I'd say it has its merits, although I guess it's rather situational.

As Tilquinith has mentioned, Pinpoint Targeting and Vital Strike don't go together - what would you prefer? Or would you take both feats nevertheless?

I guess I do not agree with you on "clustered shots". I think it is a must have.

Until 17th level it is still the unarmed strikes that count as magic, lawful and adamantine or is it already the bow?

Thanks in advance for answers.


porpentine, do you have a Google Docs version of your guide?


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Far shot is really only for when you don't want to purchase a distance enhancement for your bow, or even if you do, you tend to fight in smaller areas. Far shot is only really for large open areas,mor even in just forests, but your in the treetop scouting, or look out, and you spo enemies either 115'+ ( normal composite longbow 110') or 225' (distance composite longbow is 220'). I'd get it if you have some free feats open at later levels.

As for pinpoint targeting vs. vital strike it reallly depends....
If you like to move a lot, vital strike is better.
If you want to hit the enemy better get pinpoint targeting.
More damage, and not by much I might add, at most 4d10--->avg.=22 pts, vs 1d10-->avg. 5.5... Difference of 16,5 pts, for 2 feats. Pinpoint is just one feat but you can't move, and not all enemies have a high natural armor and shield bonus. Pinpoint is situational advantage to hit, disadvantage to move, and disadvantage at options when facing certain enemies. Vital strike is more damage but you can still move, thus providing more options. Honestly I was never a huge fan of vital strike for zen archers, but between the two it seems to be the better choice.

Clustered shots is amazing. Take it and never look back.

Sczarni

Well done Sir! You need to get this into Google Docs and send it on over the Guide to the Guides Thread.


If your GM will allow, get the guided special property put on your bow. Depending on interpretation, the bow may still require the mighty property adjusted to fit your wisdom. You already make attack rolls based on wisdom, but damage based on wisdom is a definite winner.

Attack and damage on wisdom modifier? Hell yes!


If the GM allows Guided, you may as well just not make a Zen Archer. Sohei gets better rate of fire; ranger gets spells, an extra bundle of actions (the companion), better HD, BAB, and skills...


Well done, I really like your guide and how you approached it. I’d like to do something like this for the core monk and all of their archetypes but it’d take forever and be a full sized book when finished xP Over all I think I agree with most everything you said though I have to say beastmass wasn’t exactly fair to the creatures.

Intelligent creatures don’t leave their treasure sitting in a pile in the corner waiting for and adventure to take it after they have been defeated. Try equipping them with some of their treasure and I bet one will be hurting by the end of the first day (if he survives at all) and never make it to the end of the second. Still, it did show off the Zen archer’s abilities nicely even if it wasn’t quite accurate in that regard.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would like to add something adressing halflings:

Once your GM allows you to use a halfling slingstaff instead of a longbow they get much more interesting. Especially with the halfling feats for slings and the warslinger racial trait.

-warslinger racial trait lets you reload for free as fast as with a bow
-halfling slingstaff damage is 1d6 and reach 80 feet (still shorter than longbow and less damage, especially with ki bolts cuz you are small
-arc slinger reduces range penalty by 2 and lets you add point blank shot for your first range increment (with a halfling slingstick 80 feet)
-slingstaffs can be used as a club in melee, even finessable, weapon focus, enhancements, etc apply.
-halfling slinger racial feats adds another racial bonus +1 on attack rolls
-large target gives +1 damage for every size category the target is larger than you

Between that and the guided property i think the penalty on STR doesnt hurt, you can even drop STR to 10 perhaps.
On a medium target in 80 feet range you get +2 damage anyway.
You also get +1 to AC and to hit and better saves, better perception and stealth.
The downside is you are also 10 feet slower, have a lower CMD/B and one feat less compared to a human.
Using a halfling slingstaff is kind of cosmetic for halflings, since longbow are martial weapons for them too. It´s more a decision of flavor.
You have to be aware of ammunition problems though, 10 bullets weight 2,5p for a halfling, which adds up quickly if you only can carry 24p for light weight. A pathfinder pouch as ammunition store can handle that early in game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thinking of it, reckless aim and big game hunter can boost the damage too.


Hayato Ken wrote:
Thinking of it, reckless aim and big game hunter can boost the damage too.

Probably worth mentioning the Oread as a viable option too.

+2 strength, +2 wisdom, -2 charisma - Strength>Dex for the zen archer.

With correct traits, you pick up: 60 foot darkvision, +1 racial bonus to natural armor, and +2 AC vs. ray attacks and 1/day deflect arrows against ray attacks.

Downside is that they're slow. =)

-Cross


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Why wouldnt the pit fiend just wish you were out of arrows? Or that all of the nonmagical wood within 100 meters were turned into tasty tasty butter... or that all of your arrows are tindertwigs...

Or that you were suddenly rich! Wishes always turn out better if they're for the well being of another! I know wishing for money is a gray area but whats fair... 10000 gold pieces worth of copper? thats only like what. 10 tons of copper pieces raining down upon your head. 10 tons of copper rain probably does a number on arrows and might be tough to climb out of before you suffocate... if the damage of 10 tons of copper raining down on you isnt enough to kill you outright... Maybe if he just made you rich by encasing you in a 10 ton block of copper. That seems cruel. maybe if you were just at the center of a 10 ton hollow ball of copper.

Nah. still seems cruel. How about all the empty space in all of your containers is now filled with solid copper! Good luck getting any arrows out of that... Cant wish for money? ok. Hows about all the empty space in your bags is filled with solid lead.

I'm just saying it seems kind of strawman to waste the wish the way he did... Surely a timelessly old and unimaginably intelligent pit fiend could come up with a more useful way to spend a wish than you came up with.


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Maybe the pit fiend is just feeling a little chilly. Maybe he just wishes the cave were a nice toasty 475 degrees. You know. Just to be comfortable... Make sure he doesnt catch cold or somethin.


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Jhidurievdrioshka wrote:

Why wouldnt the pit fiend just wish you were out of arrows? Or that all of the nonmagical wood within 100 meters were turned into tasty tasty butter... or that all of your arrows are tindertwigs...

You do realize wish has been nerfed from 3.5 version.

3.5, you would be right, asd you can wish for money, etc without it being twisted against the Pit Fiend.

But in Pathfinder, it is not as useful.

Now, Wish can likelylower saves using limited wish as a template:
Limited gives -7 to next saves, auto hitting next attack, etc.

So Wish can make a spell auto work (fail save) or next 4 attacks auto hit (likely). But this is debateable.


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The way I read wish is that if you wish for something more powerful than simply wishing for an 8th level spell then the 'power' granting the wish has the free will to subvert it in a cruel and sadistic way.

The question is who's granting a pit fiend's wish? I thought the pit fiend himself was granting his own wish. Why would he twist it against himself? And having your wish subverted is only supposed to apply if you're wishing for something really outlandish.

Wishing the archer suddenly had no fingers might make the wish subject to spell resistance, so a supergenius devil wouldnt wish for something like that. Anything the OP came up with obviously does nothing so the pit fiend wouldnt wish for that. Wishing his bag of holding were sealed shut is trying to effect a magic item so maybe the magic item gets a saving throw...

300 of the OP's arrows are non magical. Wishing the arrows were something else like jelly beans might only effect one arrow. So lets not do that. Even wishing his items were teleported into a wall would maybe give them a save. So no wishing on the archer himself or the items he carries. The target of your wish has to be 'not the archer or his gear'

You have to start by wishing for something that doesnt get a saving throw, and maybe changing the temperature to 470 degrees is 'too powerful' of a wish since it basically makes the zen archers eyeballs explode and his lungs collapse...

So instead you just make a little lead. It's not valuable. Fill the empty space in the bag with solid stone? Its not changing a magic item. its not breaking his gear or hurting him in any way. It doesnt kill anyone or create value. Its not wishing for money or magic items. If its not destroying the caster or any of his equipment then why is it subverted?

Where do you draw the line before you decide the most powerful spell in the game is weak enough to not be subverted?

The notion of this showdown is that this is representing the honor of your entire race, you think a pit fiend is going to waste a wish on a puff of air? You have seriously underestimated the imagination and resourcefulness of the best hell has to offer. Its a strawman wish. The OP neuters the possibility that any wish at all would even slow him down. Why bother giving the most powerful devil with the most powerful spell and the highest intelligence the clever idea to cast a worthless puff of air on you when the 'honor of hell itself is on the line'

I wont say its total cr@p but seriously. Basically the implication is that the only wish the pit fiend can make is for a bag of popcorn that he can eat while watching his own @ss get kicked.


Maybe I missed it while reading, but I think Bracers of Falcon's Aim are worth mentioning. They are much better (and cheaper) than Bracers of Archery. Ah, and the "Adaptive" weapon property means Str drain won't be such a problem ever again.

And multi-classing into Inquisitor or Cleric with the Conversion Inquisition means you're also very good at social encounters, increasing the characters versatility even more. Though it's really hard not to choose the Travel domain.
In fact, I lvoe the idea of a Inq 2/Zen Archer Monk X build. I wonder if getting up to 5th level of Inquisitor is worth it.

AoMF are unecessary for Zen Archers, but a guided +1 silversheen cestus could be a nice secondary option in case you lose your bow, as it's always "on". Although you probably shouldn't invest much in it anyway, as it's just something for those rare emergency occasions.

What are good skils to invest in, other than Perception? (supposing I don't dump Int). I particullary like:

- Sense Motive
- Stealth
- Acrobatics

Maybe Knowledge(Religion)? Or, especially if I multiclass into Inquisitor, Intimidate or other Knowledge skills?


The way wish is interpreted here it seems like wishing the zen archer wouldnt smile such a wide smile while kicking a pit fiends butt might be too poweful of a wish. Heck it would at least be subject to spell resistance because you know. It's targeting the zen archer.


I will admit that maybe my ideas arent the best.

The one thing I know for sure is that no matter if you're smart, clever, or evil. No matter how you interpret the wording of the wish or how you interpret who grants the wish....

If you are trapped in a room with the smartest, most sadistic, most evil thing hell has to offer, and what he's got in his pocket is a wish. The one assumption that you should not be having is

'oh this wont be that bad'

I wont call it wrongbadfun but you are SERIOUSLY selling short the smartest meanest most powerful creature in hells arsenal.

And if the honor of hell is on the line? That pit fiend isnt just going to wish you were dead. You should be expecting that you're not going to get off that easy. You should be expecting that if you're lucky enough to be alive by the time the pit fiend is declared the winner you will have been disabled, stripped of all your posessions, been the recipient of the devil's most depraved arsenal of tender loving snu snu, and almost certainly have had all your fingers snipped off. You should NOT be thinking 'oh, this wont be so bad.'


The monk would make the will save anyway


Wow, fun read. Nice work.


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I don't know if there was errata changing this since the original post, since the wording is different, but a Zen Archer monk most definitely cannot take vows:

PRD

PRD wrote:
The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature, even if the monk abandons all his vows.

Still mind is already replaced by the Zen Archer monk, so vows are not legal.

Against the shoggoth:
How is the monk moving through the ocean? It's a broom of flying, not swimming. A fly speed does not allow you to move through water as if flying.

Against the pit fiend:
The OP states that wind wall wouldn't work, but he ignores the better version of the spell: fickle winds, which creates a cylinder around the pit fiend just like wind wall, except that it moves with the pit fiend. At CL 18th, the cylinder is 90 ft. high, more than enough to reach the ceiling of the 60 ft. room. Now all the monk's arrows are deflected unless he's directly above the pit fiend. But how would the monk know that's where he has to go? He has no Spellcraft, so he has no idea what spell was just cast, and all he sees is his arrows being deflected. He's got an Int of 7, so he's probably not smart enough to conceive of shooting his arrows directly down on the pit fiend.

Against the ancient gold dragon:
I think other people may have mentioned it, but if the ancient gold dragon uses antimagic field and moves adjacent to the monk, the monk is in a lot more trouble. Changes:

Loses Ki pool (Su)
Loses Quivering Palm (Su)
Loses Evasion (ring of evasion)
Loses flight ability (broom of flying)
Ability to haste (boots of haste)
-5 to hit and damage from enhancement on bow
-3 to hit (Wis) and damage (Str) from belt/headband
-6 AC/CMD (Dex/Wis) from belt/headband
-2 to hit from not having enough Str to use the longbow properly
-8 AC from vest of armor
-5 AC/CMD from ring of deflection
-5 AC from barkskin
-2 to hit and -1 to damage from greater bracers of archery
-5 saves from cloak of resistance
-1 saves from luckstone
-1 AC/CMD from dusty rose prism ioun stone

Add it up:

-12 to hit
-9 to damage
-25 AC
-12 CMD
-6 saves

So, the monk is now adjacent to the dragon with no magic. What's he do?

1) If he full attacks, the dragon's 39 AC is not being hit. Perfect Strike doesn't help here.

2) If he moves any distance at all, he can't use Pinpoint Targeting, so the only way to use that would be to stay still (and by the way, Pinpoint Targeting and Vital Strike do not work together). If he stays still, that means the dragon gets a full attack on him with his suddenly not so impressive 28 AC.

3) Withdraw? The dragon gets one attack of opportunity, which will hit. The monk moves away and then what? Lets the dragon charge him and, oh, how about trip on the charge? 44 CMB + 2 from charging and a automatic 10 = 56, which is the monk's new CMD. Now that he's tripped, he's really screwed - can't use his bow, can't move away without provoking, can't do much of anything. Or, even better, the dragon can sunder the non-magical bow on the charge. Good luck doing anything with your stack of twigs that was once a bow.

4) Move away (take the attack of opportunity) to get out of the antimagic field and use empty body to go ethereal to wait out the spell? Antimagic field has far longer duration - 150 minutes per casting.

5) As 4, but take one shot at the dragon instead of going ethereal. The monk has his full magic arsenal at his disposal in terms of to hit and damage, so he's at a +32 to hit. He fires the arrow, which would hit on the assumed 10, but as soon as the arrow enters the antimagic field, it loses its +5 enhancement modifier. Does that make it lose the +5 to hit? If so, it misses. If not, it still hits, but does not bypass the dragon's DR, considerably weakening the attack. Now the dragon can charge and trip or sunder - again rendering the monk near helpless.

Against the solar angel:
The monk has a Knowledge: Planes check of +20. Assuming a 10 on a single die roll (as per the rules laid out in the original post), he gets a 30 to know about solar angels, which, being a CR 23, requires a 33 to know them. He knows absolutely nothing about them, and therefore all the knowledge he uses to prepare for the fight is null and void. End.


Dot. Incredibly good.


alientude wrote:

Against the pit fiend: so he's probably not smart enough to conceive of shooting his arrows directly down on the pit fiend

Now here I disagree.

Wisdom is enacting a plan. Int is involved in studying to make the plan in the first place.
So he can totally concieve of shooting where arrows will hit.
He may not be able to explain such a plan to others.

It is like the Hulk: he can concieve of amazing strategies when his major attacks are defeated, but he can't explain what he wants due to low Int, high Wisdom (Dr. Banner is High Int low Wisdom, the opposite).


nice guide, but just want to mention that you haven't found a way to kill the tarrasque. It will eat some of itself, thereby not starving, and regenerating as normal (which doesn't cause hunger, it's not like growing, you don't ever need to eat to renerate).

Other than that quite inspiring, but I wouldn't want to play one anyway, too fight focused, not enough fun and too powerful. But this is no critique on your guide.


I really want to understand this guide, but I'm extremely wet behind the ears. I'm attempting to make one for my wife for a game Saturday. This guide has the monk being qinggong and zen, not sure how that's possible? and a human having darkvision? taking stunning fist as a bow user? I'm really clueless here.....

Sczarni

Trueshots wrote:
I really want to understand this guide, but I'm extremely wet behind the ears. I'm attempting to make one for my wife for a game Saturday. This guide has the monk being qinggong and zen, not sure how that's possible? and a human having darkvision? taking stunning fist as a bow user? I'm really clueless here.....

There is some debate on the boards about Qinggong and Zen Archer stacking - but as long as you don't swap out the abilities the Zen Archer loses for Qinggong Ki powers you should be okay.

Darkvision is probably a magic item

Ki focus bow let's you use stunning fist and what not with your arrows - it's very late game coming in at 17th level so I wouldn't sweat that yet!

You only need to know 2 principles to build an effective Zen Archer;

1. Wisdom above all else.
2. Rapid Shot & Manyshot don't work for ZAM with Flurry of Blows. Avoid taking them as bonus feats, you can't use them. They are a trap for the ZAM.

That's it. You will have feats to spare to pick up things like Toughness, Improved Initiative or whatever. Oh, one more piece of advice - take Precise Shot as your first bonus feat, Imp. Precise shot at 6th. You don't need to take Point Blank Shot but you can - just don't get sucked into standing at 30' (charge range) for that extra point of hit & damage.

You will be squishy at low levels so stay out of the fray.


Fickle Winds would stop the monk from hitting(and the pit fiend could wish for that). The spell explicitely states that arrows fired at the target miss.


alientude wrote:

I don't know if there was errata changing this since the original post, since the wording is different, but a Zen Archer monk most definitely cannot take vows:

PRD

PRD wrote:
The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature, even if the monk abandons all his vows.

lol, stealth zam nerf?


I'm debating jump off points on the zen archer, and what classes to pick up

Jump off:

3rd) You snag the immediate stuff, but unless you're going into a full BAB class you do lose some BAB leaving on this level
4th) You get out at a natural BAB/save stopping point, this is probably the best early get-out due to ki/bab/feats
6th) You now have almost everything, but again you're dumping off prior to a bab stopping point
8th) This is probably the best. You now have the extra flurry attack, monk gives you almost nothing after this for a few levels

Anything after 8th is kind of suspect. You could wait for ki leach (which is excellent) but you're not going to be scoring that until 12th at the earliest (and who would give up abundant step?). Personally I really like 8th as a get off.

As far as what classes to pick up, IMO there's only two worth considering, but cleric is another contender if you have two domains/inquisitions you'd rather have:

1) Inquisitor with conversion domain. This is ungodly synergistic. Stack your Wisdom for really insane bonuses, ID your own monsters, become a social mecca and get a huge boost to initiative. The only bad part is the loss of a BAB or two. Jump off after 2 (wisdom to social skills & initiative), 3 (Teamwork feat, solo tactics), 4 (BAB/saves, 2 judgements) or 5 (Bane).

2) Weapon Master Fighter. Purely for the Weapon Training at level 3 and the bonus feats. If you want to snag improved snapshot at the same time then this will give you the feats you need to do it.


Lastoth wrote:

1) Inquisitor with conversion domain. This is ungodly synergistic. Stack your Wisdom for really insane bonuses, ID your own monsters, become a social mecca and get a huge boost to initiative. The only bad part is the loss of a BAB or two. Jump off after 2 (wisdom to social skills & initiative), 3 (Teamwork feat, solo tactics), 4 (BAB/saves, 2 judgements) or 5 (Bane).

2) Weapon Master Fighter. Purely for the Weapon Training at level 3 and the bonus feats. If you want to snag improved snapshot at the same time then this will give you the feats you need to do it.

I'm debating the same thing. About to hit 7th in another couple sessions. Think I'm going to pick up a level of trapper ranger since I'm the party's trapmonkey, then debating going inq or back to ZAM. Inq does have some ammazing synergy, and the first couple levels are loaded with goodies...

Where is the conversion domain found, and what does it get you?


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition


Porpentine wrote:
So the solar was only a narrow victory. Still, One put on a rather good show, didn’t he? Can a wizard or cleric beat Beastmass? Can a paladin or barbarian? How many builds can do it without taking a single point of damage?

Porpentine, you should come take a gander at the Beastmass Challenge thread, if you haven't already. The challenge was set up based on the trials you set for One (perhaps overly so, including the same surprise rounds, environments, spacing, etc.), and so far we've had a few builds that succeed (some with no damage). It's a fun min-maxing challenge, even if, like One, the characters are set up for maximum 20th level power.


Lastoth wrote:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition

Thanks, I found it. You called it a domain and confused me. ;)

Turns out we are leveling tomorrow, so I decided to go with the conversion Inquisitor. There are just so many benefits from a couple level dip, it was too hard to pass up...


Just thought I'd point out that Improved Vital Strike and Pinpoint Targeting do not work together, they both require a standard action to use.


My dot, so people and I can find this


Jehova wrote:
Porpentine wrote:
So the solar was only a narrow victory. Still, One put on a rather good show, didn’t he? Can a wizard or cleric beat Beastmass? Can a paladin or barbarian? How many builds can do it without taking a single point of damage?
Porpentine, you should come take a gander at the Beastmass Challenge thread, if you haven't already. The challenge was set up based on the trials you set for One (perhaps overly so, including the same surprise rounds, environments, spacing, etc.), and so far we've had a few builds that succeed (some with no damage). It's a fun min-maxing challenge, even if, like One, the characters are set up for maximum 20th level power.

Hello all, just checking in (and apologies that I'm not often around to respond to posts or private emails; life and all that)

Jehova, that's smashing, and good to see: in one sense I wrote ZAMM with a lingering sense that the class really might be pushing out the powerboat too far. How splendid that he has peers.

Other stuff here: can't reply to it all, but I like the Wish stuff (though it is a more limited spell in Pathfinder). A fair number of the other queries are actually addressed in the guide - but it's a long and involved read, I know, and I don't have the online layout skills to make it pretty. Flight capability can be used to move underwater, but where the reference for that is I haven't a clue (I did check it at the time I wrote the guide).

Adaptive is a great new (sorta) boon for the zen archer, indeed all archers; and the other gear notes here are all interesting. I stick to pure core in the guide, and it was written pre- the new gear book, so input on equipment will be useful.

On a side note, I'm just finishing up a guide to the sorcerer. I'll post that someday soon.


Pathfinder Adventure, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

dot


So I am in the process of building a Zen/Qing Monk. I have a question on how the Qinggong side works

"A qinggong monk can select a ki power (see below) for which she qualifies in place of the following monk class abilities"

emphasis mine

I assume that one of the powers, like Slow Fall (4th), means the Ability, and the Minimum level you need to be to replace that ability (since you gain slow fall normally at lvl 2

That wording leaves me to believe that you cant "bank" them to swap out for the higher level abilities whenever you want to. It says "In place of", not "swap when you want to"

Now I dont know if this is a simple oversight, or I have missed up update somewhere. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Also, on the Zen side, I noticed that Im not seeing the lvl 18 Bonus Feat


LordBOB wrote:


I assume that one of the powers, like Slow Fall (4th), means the Ability, and the Minimum level you need to be to replace that ability (since you gain slow fall normally at lvl 2

That wording leaves me to believe that you cant "bank" them to swap out for the higher level abilities whenever you want to. It says "In place of", not "swap when you want to"

Now I dont know if this is a simple oversight, or I have missed up update somewhere. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Recheck your core rulebook, Monks get Slow Fall (20 ft) at level 4, not level 2 (level 2 gets you a bonus feat and evasion, which Zen Archers swap for Weapon Focus.)

So the Slow Fall for Barkskin Qinggong swap is totally legitimate, you're swapping a level 4 Monk ability for a level 4 Qinggong ability.

The "Wholeness of Body" for "Restoration" swap, probably doesn't work, though, due to the levels not lining up, unless your GM wants to okay it.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

So the Slow Fall for Barkskin Qinggong swap is totally legitimate, you're swapping a level 4 Monk ability for a level 4 Qinggong ability.

The "Wholeness of Body" for "Restoration" swap, probably doesn't work, though, due to the levels not lining up, unless your GM wants to okay it.

Yeah, I find it annoying the levels of the monk abilities don't just align with the power levels all the way up.


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Hey. I am a bit late to the party.
Very nice guide. I hope some day to try it out.
However, I have a small question. In the trail of beasts, how do the Tarrasque only save on 20s from being stunned? As far as I can see stunning fist it a fort save not a will and it has +31 fort.
It might be that I am missing something obvious somewhere.


Hi all,

I love the flavour of the build, even though I share the scepticism regarding the beastmass challenge. The strength demonstrated is for me that it can be fun to play, even at high levels, and even being a monk (monks have a bad rep, you know).

I made a custom dwarf race, built a culture around the race build (history, city, deity, etc etc) mixing dwarf, 'warhammer beserker'-look, and some duergar.

Now I am playing my ZAM in our custom setting, which we have been playing in for about 25 years, on and off. Campaigns typically take a decade (real life years), so it is worth the effort...

Already the flavour is wonderful, giving a deep immersive gameplay. Working on getting some figures customized to support the character :-).


would you still run a zen archer in a 15 point buy game or is better to look at some other class?


My offering of a pure melee Barbrian/Ninja lol

Spoiler:
Name: Havik. Race: Human. Class/Level: Invul Rager Barb 18/Ninja 2. Favoured
Bonus: Barb/+1/3 to Superstitious. Alignment: CN. Pointbuy: 17/14/14/7/10/11 = 20.
Str 36/45(rage)/51(giant), Dex 20, Con 20/31(rage)/35(giant), Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 17
Initiative +11
Perception +33, UMD +28, Survival +34 Darkvision, Scent while Raging
Hit Points 223(average)/ 323(raging)/363(giant)
Armour Class 37/35(rage)/37(giant)… He’s gonna get hit, but he likes it!
CMD 53/55(rage)/58(giant), Str. Surge 1/Rage +18 CMD
Fort +28/48(rage), Ref +21/36(rage), Will +17/32(rage) (+10 touch of rage); evasion Damage Resistance 9/-, Resist Fire 5
Speed 50, fly 40(overland flight)/60(fly)
Base Attack +19
Falcata +38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8+24 17/20x3)
1. Falcata (rage/power attack/raging brutality) +44/+39/+34/+29 (1d8+47 17/20x3)
2. Falcata (1+Touch of Rage) +54/+49/+44/+39 (1d8+57 17/20x3)
3: Falcata (1+2+Giant Form) 56/+51/+46/+41 (2d6+62 17/20x3)
4: Any of the above +1 ki point is an extra attack at highest bonus
5: +5 damage vs Spell Casters/SLA Users
Traits: Indom. Will, Optimistic Gambler
Feats:
Human: Exotic Weapon Prof: Falcata
Ninja 2: Combat Trick: Power Attack 1st: Skill Focus: Survival 3rd: Raging Vitality
5th: Eldritch Heritage: Orc (touch of rage)
7th: Combat Reflexes
9th: Improved Initiative
11th Improved Eldritch Heritage: Orc (str of the beast)
13th: Raging Brutality
15th: Quicken SLA: Touch of Rage
17th: Greater Eldritch Heritage: Orc (power of giants)
19th: Extra Rage Power
Rage Powers:
2nd: Reckless Abandon (+5/-5)
4th: Lesser Beast Totem
6th: Superstition (+15 to saves)
8th: Beast Totem (+5NA)
10th: Greater Beast Totem
12th: Come and Get Me
14th: Strength Surge (+18CMB/CMD)
16th: Witch Hunter (+5damage vs Spellcasters/SLAs)
18th: Spell Sunder
19th: Scent

Magic Gears:
+5 Keen Furious Courageous Falcata (128,018)
+5 Mithril Breastplate of Heavy Fortification (104,200)
+6 Belt of Physical Perfection (144,000)
+6 Headband Wis/Cha (90,000)
+5 Cloak of Resistance (25,000)
+5 Ring of Protection (50,000)
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor (50,000)
Ring of Evasion and Freedom of Movement (85,000)
Goggles of Night and Eyes of the Eagle (15,750)
Boots of Striding and Springing and Feather Steps (8,500)
Pale Green Ion Stone (30,000)
Dusty Rose Ion Stone (5,000)
Luckstone (20,000)
Handy Haversack (2,000)
Rod of Absorption (50,000)
Wand of Fly (16,000)
Wand of Cure Light x14 (12,000)
Scroll of Overland Flight x4 (5,000)
Scroll of Heal x10 (16,500)
Bottle of Air (7,250)
Bracelet of Second Chances (15,750)
Quick Runners Shirt (1,000)

Uses UMD for Overland Flight twice per day and has the Wand of Fly for a backup. Has Wand of Cure Light for after fights and Scrolls of Heal for emergencies.. His AC sucks, but what decent Barbarian has a good one of those.. Object was to survive if initiative isn’t won, rage and 1 round the monsters.. Normally walks around with his Falcata in one hand and the Rod of Absorption in the other and will fight this way till he gets a full attack, then its drop the rod and go two handed.. If initiative is won than his sop is rage/charge, activating a quickened touch of rage, burning a ki point for an extra attack and power attacking away.. If the enemy survives this than 2nd round will be to swift action raging brutality and repeat.. Has a few once per rage abilities that can be cycled if necessary and scent in case a baddie decided to be sneaky.. His saves are decent not raging, so I think he could survive just about anything these guys could do if he doesn’t win initiative.. Bottom line hes gonan take hella damage himself, but has the ability to 1 round any of these opponents.. A quick rundown:

Vs. Shoggoth he has a 50/50 shot of going first.. If so he rages and waits for baddie to close, using str surge to deny the trample/engulf.. His turn, rage ginsu for an average of 380 damage(power attack/rage/quicken touch of rage/raging brutality) after DR is subtracted..

Vs.Balor again 50/50 initiative.. If so rage pounce ginsu for an average of 395 damage(rage/power attack/raging brutality) with 1 crit involved. If the Balor goes first he hits for 3 times with no crits for measly damage, I laugh and ginsu him.. If he decides to go spell route all but firestorm are sucked into the rod and I make my save vs firestorm on a 2..

Vs. Pit Fiend he has the advantage with initiative so he does something clever with Wish.. Whatever it is I don’t think it kills me, so my turn rage pounce ginsu for an average of 465 damage(rage/power attack/touch of rage) with 1 crit..

Vs. Tarn Linnorm he has the slight initiative advantage.. If he wins I eat double breath weapons for an average of 198 damage(ouch), but survive and rage ginsu for an average damage of 430 damage(rage/power attack/touch of rage) with 1 crit..

Whew!! Day one done and heal wands and scrolls get used up..

Vs. Gold Dragon I win initiative and round 1 I rage and use giant form and close some distance.. His round he probably tries’s to dispel my flight, which works but I have overlapping overland/fly so im still good.. My turn if im in charge distance its rage pounce ginsu for an average or 430 damage (rage/giant form/touch of rage) with 1 crit..

Vs. Solar I go first and 100’ charge rage pounce ginsu for an average of 420 damage with 1 crit after DR, but let’s say that doesn’t happen and he plane shifts to buff up.. Upon returning im in giant form and regardless of initiative or what spells he casts at me(rod) he gets ginsu my first round of funn attacks..

Vs. Tarrasque I go first and leave with around 170 hps after my charge, in which 40 comes back on his turn.. He full attacks me, but his grapple fails with the use of my str surge.. My turn the rest of his hp go away and hired orc force commences beat down again…

In the end the Tarn would prob do the most damage to this character due to going first and double breath weapons.. And im sure many of u will have clever strats they the monsters would have done instead im just simply posting a build that could do it under the original assumptions.. Feel free to criticize, as im sure u will..


Dot.

Liberty's Edge

Dot again.


Dot for me. I'll be checking back later to post a number of issues I have with the build. Love it though. Also glad to have found BeastMass through this.


dotted.

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