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Monstrous Physique - what form to gain pounce?


Advice


I noticed that the spell Monstrous Physique II and above allows the target/caster to gain the oft-coveted pounce ability. However, I have yet to find any monstrous humanoid that actually has the pounce ability.

Do any munchkins out there know any better? Does anyone know of any monstrous humanoids which have the pounce ability?


There were none in Bestiary 1 or 2, I haven't had a chance to check all of 3.


I've actually looked through all 3 bestiaries now. No dice. I suspect we might have to look at some of the chronicles or other supplements...

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Lots of MH with grab and other weird abilities. I could have sworn one of them had pounce.

I see MH as the preferred form for caster types since most of the forms would seem to allow casting in them. Beast shape is probably the better combat forms.

Edit: and I found this guy who has 3 primary attacks, 2 secondary attacks, and rend off one of the primary attacks for whopping six natural attacks which is pretty nuts, particularly when paired with a good fly speed.

Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft., fly 80 ft. (average)
Melee bite +25 (2d6+6 plus 1d4 Cha drain), 2 talons +25 (1d6+6 plus grab and popobala fever), 2 wings +20 (1d6+3)
Special Attacks rend (2 talons, 2d6+9)

Cheliax

Corby, Dread

XP 600
NE Medium monstrous humanoid
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8

DEFENSE

AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+3 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 19 (2d10+8)
Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +5
Defensive Abilities ferocity

OFFENSE

Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.
Melee 2 claws +5 (1d4+3)
Special Attacks leap, rend (2 claws, 1d4+3), screech of doom

STATISTICS

Str 17, Dex 16, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB +5; CMD 18
Feats Blind-Fight, Skill Focus (Stealth)
Skills Acrobatics +12, Climb +15, Perception +8, Stealth +10; Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatics, +2 Perception
Languages Undercommon

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Leap (Ex)

A dire corby can perform a special kind of pounce attack by jumping into combat. When a dire corby charges, it can make a DC 20 Acrobatics check to jump into the air and land next to its enemies. If it succeeds at this Acrobatics check, it can make a full attack (two claw attacks, plus a rend attack if both claws hit) against foes in reach. If it fails, it can still make its one attack as normal for a charge.

Screech of Doom (Su)

Once per day, a dread corby can shriek at a target within 30 feet. The target must make a DC 12 Will save or become frightened for 1d4 rounds. This is a sonic, mind-affecting fear effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Andoran

That does no good whipshire, leap is not one of the abilities you can gain from monstrous physique.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

"Leap Attack (Ex) As a standard action, a morlock may make a single attack during a jump. It can make this attack at any point along the course of the leap—the start, the end, or while in mid-air. While jumping, a morlock does not provoke attacks of opportunity for leaving a threatened square."

Is a morlock ability which is kind of neat itself, but not quite as good. You can pick it up with MP II.

Cheliax

ShadowcatX wrote:
That does no good whipshire, leap is not one of the abilities you can gain from monstrous physique.

Dire Corby came out in Bestiary 3, after MPII.

PF SRD...

Monstrous Physique II

School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 4, magus 4, sorcerer/wizard 4

DESCRIPTION

This spell functions as monstrous physique I, except it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the monstrous humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, freeze, grab, leap attack, mimicry, pounce, sound mimicry, speak with sharks, and trip. If the creature has the undersized weapons special quality, you gain that quality.


Sorry Whipshire, I found that too, but unfortunately leap is not the same as leap attack. As Dennis pointed out, leap attack refers to a different (and lesser) ability altogether.

Cheliax

I guess so... PF SRD did not have a hyper link to the ability but since leap was under the Special Attacks on the monsters... i thought it was covered.

I found nothing else...


Morbid curiosity why not go Beast Shape? What is it specifically you're looking for from monstrous physique?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Jak the Looney Alchemist wrote:
Morbid curiosity why not go Beast Shape? What is it specifically you're looking for from monstrous physique?

The ability to cast spells maybe?


Why can't you cast spells again? Eschew materials and many magical beasts possess the ability to speak.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Jak the Looney Alchemist wrote:
Why can't you cast spells again? Eschew materials and many magical beasts possess the ability to speak.

Magical beasts can speak, other beasts can't.

But the problem are somatic components.
Also eschew materials doesn't help you with foci.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Because of this from the Polymorph section of the magic chapter.

Quote:
Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon.


What class he is playing is why I asked. Right now there isn't enough to know what he can and cannot do.

Dennis I read that and referred to it. Many magical beasts can cast spells with somatic and verbal components.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Using beast shape to turn into a magical beast is Beast Shape III, a 5th level spell. You only get size medium and a +4 strength bump. You can shift into a gargoyle with MP I as a third level spell and fly, get +2 strength, and 4 natural attacks. It's just much better.


Yeah and... the guy seems to want pounce. I'd like to know what else he wants so that we can make informed alternate suggestions since it seems like monstrous physique isn't going to work without dragging outside material in.


At the moment, it's mainly pounce coupled with the ability to use use hands/weapons. The gargoyle is however already one of my favourite forms - back when I was playing 3.5, my last character fought many battles as one. =)


Lamia with the Lamia Harridan template.


Magai get pounce as a spell.

Bladed Dash!

Andoran

I don't believe you can take the form of beings with a template through the use of polymorph spells.

And it has to be the actual pounce ability, equivalents don't work.


I don't think their are any rules preventing you from transforming into a templated creature. If I were the DM, I would rule it would have to be a combination something proven to exist in the Glorian setting. So most vampire humanoid combinations are OK, but a bipedal monstrous centipede, not so much. In the case of the Lamia Harridan template, it can only apply to lamia's and lamia matriarchs, so it's resonable to assume such creatures exist in the Glorian setting.

Andoran

Milo33 wrote:
I don't think their are any rules preventing you from transforming into a templated creature. If I were the DM, I would rule it would have to be a combination something proven to exist in the Glorian setting. So most vampire humanoid combinations are OK, but a bipedal monstrous centipede, not so much. In the case of the Lamia Harridan template, it can only apply to lamia's and lamia matriarchs, so it's resonable to assume such creatures exist in the Glorian setting.
Quote:
Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

Under the rules for polymorph. Link

Also, vampires aren't humanoids, they're undead. Ergo, monstrous physique doesn't work on copying them (besides the fact that they're a template and thus illegal).


Although you cannot become a vampire using Monstrous Physique, you could with Undead Anatomy. There is the consideration of the polymorph rules that you linked, except I believe the specific situation of the spell over-rides the general rule of Polymorph.

"When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie)."

The spell specifically calls out skeleton and zombie, both of which are templates. Additionally, in the later levels of the spell, you gain access to abilities that only come from templates, at least as far as I was able to find.

"burrow 60 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 120 feet (good maneuverability), swim 120 feet, blindsense 60 feet, darkvision 90 feet, lifesense 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 60 feet, breath weapon, constrict, DR 10/magic and silver, DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, fast healing 5, fiery death, fire aura, grab, incorporeal, jet, poison, pounce, rake, rend, roar, spikes, trample, trip, and web"

As far as I know DR 15/Bludgeoning and magic is Lich only, DR 10/Magic and Silver is vampire only, and Fiery Death is burning skeleton only.

If there is someone who can point out why this doesn't work I'd certainly be interested to see why. I have yet been unable to find a campaign where my party would let me use UA but I've always wanted to!

Andoran

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Gertak wrote:

Although you cannot become a vampire using Monstrous Physique, you could with Undead Anatomy. There is the consideration of the polymorph rules that you linked, except I believe the specific situation of the spell over-rides the general rule of Polymorph.

"When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie)."

The spell specifically calls out skeleton and zombie, both of which are templates. Additionally, in the later levels of the spell, you gain access to abilities that only come from templates, at least as far as I was able to find.

"burrow 60 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 120 feet (good maneuverability), swim 120 feet, blindsense 60 feet, darkvision 90 feet, lifesense 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 60 feet, breath weapon, constrict, DR 10/magic and silver, DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, fast healing 5, fiery death, fire aura, grab, incorporeal, jet, poison, pounce, rake, rend, roar, spikes, trample, trip, and web"

As far as I know DR 15/Bludgeoning and magic is Lich only, DR 10/Magic and Silver is vampire only, and Fiery Death is burning skeleton only.

If there is someone who can point out why this doesn't work I'd certainly be interested to see why. I have yet been unable to find a campaign where my party would let me use UA but I've always wanted to!

The thing is, even though those abilities are only on templates, that just means those abilities are unable to be gained. Same as you can't actually gain pounce through monstrous physique because there aren't any humanoids with pounce.

Zombie and skeleton are legal because they are specifically called out in the spell. If the spell had intended for you to gain access to undead forms with any of the undead templates, it would have specifically said as much. (Access to zombies and skeletons is a case of specific trumping general, however the specific rule only allows as much as it says it allows, no more.)


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

It is my belief that by RAI it is intended to allow for templates of creatures like skeleton, zombie, vampire, lich, etc but by RAW it would only allow skeleton or zombie. In fact by some very strict interpretations of RAW it might not even allow zombie and skeleton templates since it does not say it allows the templates, it just uses skeleton/zombie/ghoul as examples of vaguely humanoid-shaped undead creatures.

It has been requested before but I really think this spell should be FAQ'd and/or Erata'd.


Bestiary 4 came with pouncing monstrous humanoids!
The tikbalang may not be the sexiest creature in the world, but you gain 2 hooves and a bite, a decent distance attack that you add strength into and the almighty pounce special attack. My bloodrager is already drooling!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dire Corby has the leap-pounce ability. As DM I'd allow it.

Osirion

ShadowcatX wrote:
Zombie and skeleton are legal because they are specifically called out in the spell.
Undead Anatomy wrote:


(like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie)

What is provided is a brief set of examples, not an exclusive list. An exclusive list would be worded in a very different manner. Compare to the exclusive list of abilities UA can provide.

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