Eric, welcome to Round 2 and nice to see you back!
What you are getting from me in this critique: This round is all about conflict and story. I think the best organizations create interesting and compelling groups that will come into conflict with the PCs. My comments, and my recommendation, will focus on how well you do that. My comments will also focus on writing and use of your allotted content in achieving your goals. What you won't get from me: I don't have the total Golarion-fu that Neil and Sean do, so I will leave to them whether you got the nitty gritty details of some of the setting stuff to them (though apparently I did have enough Golarion-fu to know its Pharasmin not Pharasmian, you know who you are).
So here we go!
Initial Impression: What is wrong with 600 Geisha? That sound good! Wait, 600 demon geisha that don’t care about lust? Hold on, I think this one is losing its way…
Concept (name, title, is it an organization?, overall design choices, is the organization and antagonist and does it create direct conflict for the PCs?, playability): C+
This one is going to die the death of a thousand cuts. The name is good, but then the 666 is SO cliché. Really? You’ve got more than that in you. Slice! Succubii that are into drugs and slaves, hey sure, sounds like a good idea. But then that motto. I don’t like real world stuff. Plus you took out the “woman scorned,” so now it doesn’t even make sense—now it’s just hell hath no fury. Well, that’s lame. Slash! Sure hell has fury. In fact, that is what makes it cool and evil. “Though their patron deity is the goddess of both lust and revenge, the Six-Hundred Geisha care only about the latter.” So you've got lust at your disposal and you throw it out the window to just focus on revenge, and your monsters are succubii? Gash! Isn't that like having an organization of red dragons that don't care about treasure or breathing fire and just want to get together and fly around? You are missing the best part of what the creature brings. Oh, someone stop the bleeding! The death of a thousand cuts is upon me!
Execution (quality of writing, hook, theme, organization, use of proper format, quality of mandatory content, did you milk your idea for all it was worth? did you use your allotted space well?): C
Other than names, you don’t give us much about the leaders. I like the name of the Garden, that is cool. But you don’t even tease us with anything about it. That’s a miss. You write well, I’ll give you that. But I don’t think this one was well thought through. If there are really over 600 succubii actively involved in the River Kingdoms, they would rule it by now. Seriously. You have to think this stuff through.
Tilt (did it grab me?, is it unique and cool?, do I like it?, flavor, are you showing Superstar mojo?): B-
You get points in my book just for saying “succubus” in your entry. I am old school D&D and these monsters are that. Plus, with an avatar of Orcus how can I not be all about this concept. So to use succubii and yet still fail to grab me is an impressive achievement, though not a positive one.
Overall: C
A submission with succubii—and I can’t believe I am about to say this—that just don’t deliver the goods.
Recommendation: I DO NOT recommend this organization submission for advancement.
Eric, I liked your boots quite a bit and I was hoping for a similarly amazing showing in this round. It’s up to the voters now. I wish you the best of luck!
Welcome back to RPG Superstar, Eric. You know the drill. The contest takes a new spin at this level. As judges we're here to comment on your work both in the hopes of guiding you in honing your game design skills and also to help the voting public assess how you measure up. With that in mind, I'm going to talk a bit about what you did well and where I think you still need to demonstrate growth. So, let's see what we've got...
First off, this is the second succubus-driven entry I've reviewed. They're very popular. And, sometimes, I think it's easy to reach for the succubus connection on a lot of things. They're sexy. They're evil. And, in a lot of ways, they're marketable (and maybe even appealing to the voters). But they're also overdone sometimes. When I saw you were using them in connection to the geisha of Minkai, however, I got really excited, thinking you just might use them in a really cool and unique way. You obviously write really well. Always have. And you also think and structure your creative thoughts with almost effortless skill. And you're clearly able to absorb a lot of information about the Golarion campaign setting and string things together while tapping that well of creativity. I love the name of your organization. The Six-Hundred Geisha paints an immediate image. Then, finding out they're actually all succubi, cooperating together, paints an even cooler image. The House of Three is a cool way to organize them. The 666-angle with their membership felt a little convenient/obvious, but the reasoning there makes sense. After that, however, the train kind of jumps the track a bit for me. Here's why...
The image your organization's name imparts to the reader immediately has you envisioning these succubi geisha in Minkai. It was actually very jarring (for me, at least) to see them uprooted and placed in the River Kingdoms. I get your reasoning. They were kicked out of Minkai and want to take revenge on those who cast them out. But, of all the places in Avistan they could have set up shop, they chose the frontier, backwater, river-country of the River Kingdoms? Did the decadence of Taldor not appeal? The chaos of Galt? Or even the "misery loves company" of the Worldwound? Additionally, even your organization's main goal points back to Minkai. So, even they aren't particularly interested in the River Kingdoms other than as a stepping stone for amassing enough resources to go back and avenge themselves. Personally, I feel like there's a lot better places to accomplish that goal than the River Kingdoms. And I'm just not perceiving enough opportunities for conflict with your organization as you've presented it here.
Associating the succubi with Calistria also felt a little odd. I'll concede they could certainly find a connection to the goddess of lust and revenge. She's CN and could easily consort with demons now and then. But I agree with Clark that I would've expected it to focus more on the lust than just the revenge part...or, at least, equally as much. It's also kind of off-putting to read that these 666 succubi have control of several River Kingdoms. Which ones? I didn't realize the faith of Calistria had that much prominence in the River Kingdoms. Yes, she's got some followers there. But the scale your write-up suggests feels misplaced. And, coupled with the already out of place geisha in the River Kingdoms, it's like a double whammy. I don't know. I worked on the Guide to the River Kingdoms...as well as the Kingmaker AP...and Jade Regent AP. So, much of the baggage I'm carrying in my own mind as I read about this proposed organization just feels out of place to me. At the same time, I don't want to ding you too hard for that, because some of it's more my own view and understanding of what the River Kingdoms and Minkai entail.
Here's the bottom line: You've obviously got talent. Your creativity is way up there. Your technical skills at writing are top-notch. Your ability to take and apply things from Golarion to your ideas is on display. This particular swing for the fence just doesn't connect for me. You took a big swing on trying to go for mojo/gonzo/whatever, but many of the pieces don't fit all that well. It's misdirected creativity. And I think you missed a lot of opportunities to give us a much more compelling use of the Six-Hundred Geisha.
Thus, I'm going to put myself ON THE FENCE in terms of this organization advancing you to the next round.
You're a two-time veteran of RPG Superstar now, but you didn't quite sell me on this idea. You've been contributing mightily to the Paizo community for awhile with your design threads in the forums, though. And, I think a lot of people really enjoyed your boots of the phantom staircase (i.e., it was in a few Top 5's that I saw). So, even if I can't champion this entry as it stands on its own merits, perhaps the voters will send you through to see what else you've got? I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that happen. Just make sure if you get to the next round that you crystallize your ideas in ways that naturally fit as opposed to just taking many different awesome things and trying to blend them all together. Because I think maybe that's what happened here in an effort to woo votes. And I believe you can do better.
One, 666 demons is pretty cliché.
Two, 666 8 HD outsiders is a lethal threat against just about any army that mortals could put together, and that's just considering their pure physical power. Throw in flight, energy immunity and resistances, spell resistance, shapechanging disguises, damage reduction, unlimited energy drain, charm monster, ethereal jaunt, and teleport, they're unstoppable. They don't need to use subterfuge, they just teleport to their targets, eliminate 600 guards or soldiers per round, and continue to teleport-kill every 2 rounds until their opponents are completely neutralized. They can control or kill every single person in a city of 1,000,000 people in a matter of hours. They don't need to "peddle" anything. They don't need to deal in slaves or drugs. They've had hundreds of years to have their revenge. Imagine if they just did one hit-and-run attack on Minkai per day... that's more than 200,000 people dead or enslaved per year. For hundreds of years. How long do you think anyone can stand against them?
Yes, this is an antagonist organization, but it breaks my suspension of disbelieve on power level alone, and that doesn't even consider why succubi aren't interested in lust, or why they worship Calistria instead of one of the demon lords, or why they're in the River Kingdoms instead of running a place like Taldor, Cheliax, or even Rahadoum.
I do not recommend this to advance.
I don't really get it. There are 666 geisha succubi. They want to go home and cause a bloodbath. But they don't, despite amassing astonishing treasure. Because, well, I guess the time isn't right. Or something.
Every once in a while they have a little participatory democracy to pick some leaders. Who in turn do not go home to wreak vengeance. Because they'd rather pretend to be tarted up whores when not out doing drug deals or capturing slaves. Hell, I met a bunch of these girls when I lived in Vegas!
[I had a rant here about the "secret" motto, but it felt like piling on.]
Too much power. Too little results.
I do not recommend that you vote for this designer.
: Competitors, remember this item from the Round 2 FAQ, which reminds competitors about the rule against commenting about their own submissions. We're pasting this reminder into the last judge comment for every organization just to make sure all competitors see it and remember.
Hell, I met a bunch of these girls when I lived in Vegas!
I used to live in Vegas, too, as you know. Remember, "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas." :) By the way, I think I know those girls...
I feel like this one needed another draft, but there's a kernel of something truly great, here. And the name is spectacular. You've got my vote, based on the potential that is clearly present.
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Its symbol is a pink butterfly knife.
Oh noes...
I really like the underlying premise. A little too much cliche, but you are getting a vote from me. Can't wait to see your monster!
You started off REALLY well with this organization. I was quite excited to hear the idea, and then I hit River Kingdoms and went 'huh?' I kept reading and found a few bits and pieces that were trying to pull it together, but it just sort of fell apart for me.
The base idea seems like it could have been really amazing, but it's just sort of lacking. Some sort of magical ritual trapping the Succubi's power could have explained why they were banished from Minkai and unable to return and would have made things make a bit more sense.
I tell you what -- Go Bold or Go Home right?
However I fear this might be a go home moment. You swung for a home run but I think you might have been better off bunting.
I got to give it to you this one is fun to read at first, and heck it isn't horrible... but another day or two to think on it would have probably helped a lot.
Excellent try though!
Cut them down to succubi/oni-descendent tieflings and it turns better.
I am writing this and voting after rereading 2nd tome of Shogun so I am very positively stanced towards geisha. Only if I could avoid accidentaly reading l as r in the process ;)
Best name of the bunch. Great basic concept. But 600 demons is way over the top. Maybe if only the leadership were demons...
Still, gets my vote for the mojo factor.
Frankly all the little injokes in this entry made me groan rather than get excited.
You have some good ideas going on in here. And some bad ones. I like the basic idea behind this organization, but I can't wrap my mind around the fact that they are Succubi. Why? You abandoned the lust angle, so why not go with something else? And the fact that there are a LOT of them. Very powerful. I also have no idea why they'd be in River Kingdoms. There are a lot of small things that don't work with this organization, but the basic idea behind an army of demon geishas driven from their homeland and seeking revenge is cool enough to consider voting for this one.
I can not believe this.
At this day and age someone still thinks geisha are prostitutes?!
An army of 600 ticked-off succubi has way better things to do than sit around the River Kingdoms deciding when they're going to have their revenge. Basically, what Sean said.
All other criticisms aside, I'm just tired of tie-ins to Minkai and Tian Xia. For that alone, I'll pass.
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I once judged the 'design an organization' Master DM 3.5 competition on the WotC boards. Someone put in an organization made up 15,000 15th level clerics. Needless to say, it did not score well (the winner was a pudding and slime breeding tribe of goblins which had a city's sewer cleaning contract). Needless to say it was near the bottom.
666 demons have a simular problem.
What Sean said but I will put it emphatically. Not only is this a not keep, if this were the first round you would be in the bottom pile of not keeps.
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Oh man ...
I really wanted to love this one when I saw the organisation name in the list (definitely one of the best names this round IMO), and reading the headquarters and leaders the love continued (although I thought the River Kingdoms seemed a little odd).
And then it all fell apart ... I won’t go into it, I think all four judges hit things pretty firmly on the head on this one.
The name is so cool though ... I just don’t think it makes up for the rest.
Good luck Eric.
The cutesy aspects, including the motto and the pink butterfly knife, are major turn-offs. After I read "hell hath no fury," I pretty much knew I wouldn't vote for this entry.
I agree with many of the criticisms others have raised. My only additional feedback is that this organization didn't seem organic. As Neil pointed out, it doesn't fit in the River Kingdoms. It could have, but we would have needed more connections (a reference to the Outlaw Council would have been appropriate). As it stands, this supposedly vast organization feels alien to the surroundings in which you want to place it.
I liked your first round item and I wish you luck going forward.
As above, if I had 666 succubii at my disposal I would go mess some stuff up.
I had the same reaction as Mothman. And like others, you essentially killed it for me when you had to bring in the 666 cliché. I was hoping that your Six-Hundred had more of a Vedic concept. Or in Zen Buddhism philosophy, when Lao-Tsu writes about the ten thousand things in the Tao Te Ching. To paraphrase from Wikipedia, it is essentially a term that means "all of phenomenal reality."
This killed it for me in the same manner that Arnold Schwarzenegger's End of Days killed all subsequent religio-apocalyptic themed movies from ever being watched. Kirk Cameron never stood a chance.
This is tough. Because I really wanted to see what you'd do in the monster round.
Congratulations and good luck, again.
You had a neat item, and I'll admit I like the basic idea of this.
I do like the thought of an exiled organization.
I do like the idea of succubus in an organization.
I even like the Calistria association.
The name is excellent.
I don't like the 666 thing (now that's not really a killer for me, it's bloody easy to change, but you should've known better than something that Obvious)
I don't like the "all succubus" thing. If I use this, which I might well, there'll be less than a dozen of those left.
I'm also a little confused at how influential you make the faith of Calistria in the River Kingdoms... I think it's a little overstated.
Generally, there's too much of the good thing, much too much. You may still get a vote, but I'm doubting it. The best of luck in rounds to come, though.
Here's my tuppence for this round.
I've never written an organisation, so take as much or as little as you deem worthy of note.
My category of scoring this round will be:
Template fu: A small number of points (max 5) - my template fu isn’t so strong, and due to reviewing time constraints, I'm only likely to dock points for obvious errors here.
Adversarial Potential: (max 5) How they can get in the way of the PCs, cause them issues, direct conflicts, potential for becoming that campaign within the campaign.
Questions Arising: (max 10) Did I have any questions unanswered? This is the area where I will most likely gaff and occasionally make an incisive query.
Overall Impression: (max 5) This is an esoteric measurement that simply reflects how you have wow'd this reader taking into account any other observations not covered in the prior sections.
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Template fu: 5/5
template fu smiles, curls up in a ball and purrs himself to sleep.
Adversarial Potential: 4/5
There is plenty of potential here for both direct and indirect conflict, but getting the PCs to interfere or become noticed is going to take some GM manipulation to get things started. I'm not immediately sure how to start that, which means more work for me as a GM.
Questions Arising: 7/10
Where is the house of three located? Do they reside together or in separate temples? A GM needs to know where the bosses are and how communication between all these divisions of the membership are carried out.
How many temples? At 3 per temple we get 111, at 12 per temple we get 28, either way, that is a lot of temples for one region. Do they share temple space where there are already Callistran temples in existance? What is the internal structure of each temple, e.g. High Priestess and two acolytes?
Overall impression: 3/5
I also picked up on real world elements and catch phrases, so won't duplicate here. Aside from that, the entry was solid but lacking the originality shown in your wondrous item. My questions arising indicate that as a GM, I may need to do quite some additional work in preparing for the PCs to get embroiled with this organisation.
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Final score: 19/25 - 76%
Vote given, despite doubts.
How many temples? At 3 per temple we get 111, at 12 per temple we get 28, either way, that is a lot of temples for one region.
No more 666 and no more too-many-succubi-syndrome/too-many-temples-per-square-mile though. You organization is creative and motivated. And I think I'll throw it at my sister, she wants to play a high-level Tian campaign... "Revenge of the Sit- err, Succubi!"
No, I liked this a lot, and I end up voting for it based on your far more realistic item, your good idea and most definitely not on your succubi-related math.
I think the best piece of advice is to try to walk the path somewhere your item and organization in how much is needed. I hope you haven't used all your ideas for monsters yet!
Best of luck!
Star Voter Season 8
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I would like to thank everyone who voted for me this round, despite your well-warranted reservations.
Also, some answers to frequently asked questions:
Six-hundred-and-sixty-six succubi? Really?
Not necessarily. Unwisely, I used "geisha" as a stand in for "organization member" to cut down on word count. But the numbered geisha are actually the false identities being used by the succubi, not the succubi themselves. Given that a succubus can change her face as easily as she changes her clothes, any given succubus could be posing as an arbitrary number of geisha. Thus, the GM is free to decide exactly how many (or how few) succubi there are. (As a long-time Planescape fan, I probably would say that each geisha is a different succubus in my own campaign, but that's not required. There could easily be a small handful of succubi scattered across Avistan and Casmaron, posing as a larger number of geisha.)The fact that a given succubus could pose as multiple geisha is the reason I felt comfortable declaring the exact number of geisha in this organization (and making it such a contrived number). If the PCs bump off a few succubi, there will still be six-hundred-and-sixty-six geisha. The surviving sisters will just adopt a few more false identities to maintain the quota they've set for themselves. In fact, though the word count didn't let me say it, the sisterhood regularly "recruits new geisha" by initiating young women, killing them, and adopting their identities.
Why are the geisha in the River Kingdoms?
Because they can teleport at will and their enemies can't. Strategically speaking, demons that can teleport across the planet in the blink of an eye shouldn't build their headquarters anywhere near the populations they're manipulating. The Six-Hundred Geisha have their headquarters in the River Kingdoms so they can control thralls in places like Absalom and Taldor without actually risking themselves or the treasures they keep at their headquarters far to the...
Shame you didn't advance to the next level, I voted for you.
I had some problems with it, but I just wanted to see your monster ^^ since posting it earlier might have slimmed your chances, you can read it now.
666 Outsiders: I would have suggested that not all of those would have to the succubi, maybe add some alu fiends - you already addressed this in your reply. This sentence would have softened some of the critique.
River Kingdoms: As a GM quite deep into Kingmaker, it certainly did upset me to learn that suddenly there is a new power that controls acts behind the strings.
Now that you explain that, they are using the remote River Kingdoms to lay low... it makes perfect sense, adding or changing this part in your proposal would have helped it a lot.
Mind controlled by pretty ladies: Been there done that.
My suggestion: After round 3 has ended - others deserve the spotlight at that time - post a/your monster, it may not count for the contest, but people have a good memory. Posting under your real name all your long should help too - I started to do the same keeps me honest ^^.
PS: Eric Morton Epic Meepo (RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32, 2013 Top ..., Contributor) would look great ^^
My suggestion: After round 3 has ended - others deserve the spotlight at that time - post a/your monster, it may not count for the contest, but people have a good memory. Posting under your real name all your long should help too - I started to do the same keeps me honest ^^.
*cough* Epic Meepo monster thread *cough*
PS: Eric Morton Epic Meepo (RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32, 2013 Top ..., Contributor) will look great ^^
Fixed.
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Star Voter Season 8
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My suggestion: After round 3 has ended - others deserve the spotlight at that time - post a/your monster, it may not count for the contest, but people have a good memory. Posting under your real name all your long should help too - I started to do the same keeps me honest ^^.*cough* Epic Meepo monster thread *cough*
PS: Eric Morton Epic Meepo (RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32, 2013 Top ..., Contributor) will look great ^^Fixed.
Thanks for the link, and if he wins wouldn't it be winner instead of Top...^^
Thanks for the link, and if he wins wouldn't it be winner instead of Top...^^
Paizo may decide to commission some work from anyone they find promising - even if they don't win Superstar. Of course reaching high rank in superstar helps being noticed as promising designer.
Man, if only you said half the stuff in your FAQ in your entry.
A sentance about using the River Kingdoms as a remote base and teleporting into major cities on a regular basis (rather than implying they were focused on taking over the River Kingdoms), and reducing the number of demons by explaining the multiple IDs would have won me over on this entry and made it one of my top picks. Without them though, parts just fell flat.
This isn't the only one that seems to have had issues with not trimming the right areas. I hope that you have better luck in the future.
Alignment: CE
Headquarters: The Gardens of Bountiful Yin, location variable
Leaders: The House of Three (Madame Jade, Miko Lily, and Miko Lin)
Structure: Religious sect
Scope: Regional
You should know the drill by now, but in case you missed it the first time round, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is posting from the point of view of a CE aligned succubus:
Important Note:
First impressions always being important, do members of this organization wear nifty robes or uniforms when out on formal business?
It's stated that they work for (or at least in loose affiliation with) Calistria, so it's conceivable some sort of Calistrian themed outfits are the mode when members are not out and in disguise.
Does membership of this organisation seem likely to involve regular tea or dinner parties or other appropriate social occasions?
This one is unclear. It's possible that they're too busy, out manipulating, to engage regularly in sophisticated social activities.
Is the cost of being a member of this organisation likely to be acceptable to a succubus?
These are succubi who at least work alongside Calistria; this makes the question of whether or not another succubus would fit in a highly delicate matter of etiquette. This was originally about a particular sorority of succubi, if I am given to understand correctly, who were exiled from Minkai, and it's conceivable that they might not want any other succubus joining in, feeling that revenge (when exacted) should be delivered solely by themselves (or possibly with the assistance of any daughters who happen to also be fortunate enough to be succubi) to be entirely satisfactory. It depends on the exact nature of the feuds involved, but basically another succubus certainly shouldn't barge in assuming that she has a place in their schemes without checking first if they want such help?
Other comments?
Calistria is actually one of the few halfway sensible deities around that it is worth succubi working alongside (or even for).
Rating: