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Question about Feedback


RPG Superstar™ 2012 General Discussion

1 to 50 of 53 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Andoran

This was my first year participating and I didn't make the cut for top 32. I'm trying to stay positive and I'm curious if those that didn't make it will get to see the thread they created for their item with the judges' initial comments (in the same format that the winner entries is)?

I understand that there's a critique thread that will be opening within the next couple days but I'd really just rather see the judge commentary that my item initially got.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013 aka Shadow-Mask

All we have is the critique thread. It's a really good forum for getting feedback from many perspectives. I suggest you post your item there. I'm going to, as are many others, if past years are anything to go by.

Andoran

Bummer.

Is there any reason the submission threads aren't just made available for viewing?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013 aka Shadow-Mask

My understanding is it's primarily to preserve the integrity of the judging process. The judges tend to use a short hand version of "Keep/Reject" with (maybe) a quick blurb as to why (SIAC, SAK, bad design, not Superstar, etc). They take the weekend prior to the Big Reveal to sanitize all that into the pertinent and targeted critiques we see.

Imagine you had to do that for the entire 1000 or more entries. It's not feasible.

Andoran

Fair enough but lack of transparency doesn't do anything to preserve integrity. If anything, it damages it.

Thanks for the info.

Osirion

Feral wrote:

Bummer.

Is there any reason the submission threads aren't just made available for viewing?

Just kind of guessing, but I imagine they have sections of the site that are reserved for in house employees of the company only. If that's true, then the discussions over submitted items may happen within that area and not be publishable without allowing people to enter that section of the site. Also, I get the feeling they receive a fair number of submissions. I can see the reasoning behind not publishing those threads directly because, when all's said and done, it's generally going to be a single person interested in that particular critique. It would lead to a number of extraneous threads kind of hanging around. Also, making those threads available could create a false sense that they're thought process was open for debate and, unfortunately, there would be those who would try to do just that (which wouldn't be particularly fair to the judges; they worked hard and deserve to be left in peace). Off the top of my head, those are a few possible reasons for not furnishing that information to us. In any event, the comments belong to them and they can do as they will with them (that's they're content, lol :P). I understand your feelings though, I'd love to know what the judges had thought of my submission. Trial and error though, sir, trial and error ;) Good luck next year (I'll need it too) and I hope you post your item up in that thread for people to look at and give some insight! :)

Andoran

That's just the problem. I want insight from the judges, not the participants.

Seeing the commentary in the winning entries actually says a lot. I'd love to see that (whatever it may be) for mine.

It's probably just day one sour grapes, but if this is the process I can't say I'm terribly interested in entering next year. How are we supposed to improve if we can't get direct feedback on how we need to improve?

Shadow Lodge Marathon Voter 2013

Feral wrote:
Fair enough but lack of transparency doesn't do anything to preserve integrity. If anything, it damages it.

I suggest you read Clark's thread here: A Few Words....

It's disappointing not to make top 32 but making comments such as above are perhaps not the best way of dealing with it. Enjoy those who made it today. Post to the critique thread tomorrow and I'm sure you'll receive the copy/paste feedback you are after from one of the judges.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There were hundreds of entries. More than any previous year.

Some of the comments are pretty harsh, like "you didn't bother to spell-check, why are you wasting our time?" and "this person has a poor command of the English language, let alone game rules," or "if you can't bother to use the copy-and-paste format provided in the rules, I'm not going to even read your item."

And some of the comments are blunt, like "SIAK REJECT" or "plot device REJECT."

So... do we reveal all wondrous item entries, with the comments? Whether or not the author wants it posted with their name?

Or do we wait for individual people to ask for their entry to be revealed, and have Ross spend time looking up who did what and moving those threads into a public forum?

Use the "critique my item" thread when it's open. You'll get good feedback from the community, and if your item is noteworthy to the judges, they may have more feedback for you--assuming their initial feedback is more than just a three-word reason to reject it.

Remember that the purpose of the R1 judging is not to provide feedback for the authors, it is for the judges to eliminate hundreds of weak entries so they can reach a consensus on 32 strong ones. The initial judge comments aren't there to help authors, they're there to help judges--and they're usually very curt.


Thanks for responding to this thread Sean. While we could have inferred some of that, I'd rather hear it from the source than infer. It's a shame the system doesn't allow for entrants to view it privately, but I totally understand the limitations of the technology at hand.

Andoran

Thanks for the info Sean.

Perhaps, in the future, might it be possible to allow individuals to privately view the direct feedback (no matter how curt it is)?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Standback

Feral wrote:
Perhaps, in the future, might it be possible to allow individuals to privately view the direct feedback (no matter how curt it is)?

This suggestion is frequently raised, and always rebuffed. Two reasons:

1. It's easy to say "I don't mind rough, curt comments," it's another thing to try to judge hundreds of items knowing that any user might peek later at precisely what you said. The latter encourages you to be more cautious, all the time... and that's just not effective when you're working large-scale.
2. Since the judges' chambers are locked, they often mention one item in the discussion of another item ("this item is like [item X], but with less mechanical issues," or worse, "OMG this sucky item is even WORSE than the pile of suckitude that was [item Y]!!!!"). You can see references like that redacted even within the top 32; you really don't want that open to the public.

Waiting a few days or a week for the critique thread to reach your item is... nerve-wracking, to be sure, but there you get your criticism cleaned up, explained, and clarified as necessary. It's worth the wait, and the system works :)

Spoiler:
By "the system," I of course mean "the superhuman feedback compiler Neil Spicer."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

I know folks love to get feedback, but it's important to keep one thing in mind—this isn't RPG Study Hall. The point of this contest is to find new authors, not to make new authors. That the judges are willing to go the extra mile to provide feedback to folks who didn't make the top 32 is admirable, but it DOES take a fair amount of extra time. Time that the judges don't always have available to give.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter 2013, Champion Voter 2014

Last year I felt like the William Hung of RPG Superstar. Well not exactly, but I was pretty hard on myself. I digested the judges criticisms, worked hard on the areas where I fell short, and read, then reread, the advice that offered (for free!) by various judges and well-versed posters on the boards. My design and balance skills have increased. Now to see if my wordsmithery is up to the challenge ahead.


Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Last year I felt like the William Hung of RPG Superstar. Well not exactly, but I was pretty hard on myself. I digested the judges criticisms, worked hard on the areas where I fell short, and read, then reread, the advice that offered (for free!) by various judges and well-versed posters on the boards. My design and balance skills have increased. Now to see if my wordsmithery is up to the challenge ahead.

congratulations on making it this year. I'm glad the first year XP paid off for you.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Feral wrote:

Thanks for the info Sean.

Perhaps, in the future, might it be possible to allow individuals to privately view the direct feedback (no matter how curt it is)?

Good question, Feral. Some asks this question every year.

The answer is always the same.

One, the judges comments are just that--"our" comments, not your comments. They are for us, not you. We dont make them with the intent of being feedback. In fact, what you see on the top 32 are our edited and expanded comments after the items were sorted into the keep folder. The comments we make on rejected items are much different. Plus, our comments are done in a short handed way between ourselves that we understand, a group of very experienced rpg designers. We make our comments in our private forums knowing them to be private. If we were to have our comments opened up that would likely chill the free discussion.

Two, when you submitted you did so anonymously. So did all the other contestants. When we comment on items, though, we often reference other items in commenting on another item. In your item I may have referenced another item, for instance. That author, and his or her item, is just as entitled to anonymity as yours is. To just open up threads would be to violate that.

Three, frankly, many of you couldnt take what we have to say. Though we are just reviewing an item we have somewhere near a thousand entries to review. Sometimes we just write "Not even close, reject;" or "Monster in a can, reject;" or "SIAK reject." Sometimes two of us just hit the reject button. In fact, lots of times. With no more comment. Lots of people wouldnt want to see their item subjected to that, so its better you dont see it. Of course, we mean no disrespect in those comments. We think everyone who submits is a winner. But we are pros and we can really quickly tell if an item is up to par and decide on it very quickly, and we have to do that or we could never get through all of them. The lack of comment would feel harsh to many. And that is just not representative of the care and appreciation we have for the contestants. So there in many cases isnt much there to review.

That said, there are plenty of items we reject that we DO have long discussions about. That is why we started the critique my item thread. It was a tradition started with the first contest. If you want criticism, post in that thread. Not only will the community offer advice, but hte judges will cut and paste if appropriate or summarize the thoughts or comments we had on your item.

I'm sure I did a better job of explaining this in a thread in a prior year so if someone can find a link please post it.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

I'll tell you what...Feral, (and Feral only) post the name of your item here and I will tell you whether you even want to know.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Feral wrote:
It's probably just day one sour grapes, but if this is the process I can't say I'm terribly interested in entering next year. How are we supposed to improve if we can't get direct feedback on how we need to improve?

That is exactly what it is--day one sour grapes. This is not about YOU, it is about the contest.

If the process turns you off, that is your choice.

I don't know of any contest more transparent, though. We do item feedback every year. There is an amazing community here. And let's not underestimate that. The first year, I struggled whether to do a feedback thread. Most (ok, nearly every other) communities on the net would be way too juvenile to have a constructive discussion about their own failures. Seriously. But the community here is so great, I took a chance and it paid off. The critique my item thread is something I am very proud to have started (It used to be called "Clark, Critique My Item"). And I have to say, the community process of review here has led to general improvement in item design in the contest.

Plus, our transparency doesnt stop there. We compile tons and tons of advice for you. In fact, we even did an audio seminar on the exact step by step process Neil (a former winner) used to create his item and then we did it in seminar fashion with those in attendance and created an item. In so doing, we shared many great insights into the process and how we judge items.

Once you get over the sour grapes, which I understand, do some homework here and find some of those threads. I'm sure the helpful community will link them for you in this thread to make it even easier for you.


Are the feedback threads going to be located in this part of the forum?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Yes: In fact, it's a sticky

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Cydeth

One question I had (as an alternate) is...should I post in the feedback thread when it's unlocked? I don't have any idea whether I'll get pulled in or not, and I'm hesitant to post my item in the feedback thread for fear of incidentally breaking the rules.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Hey, Cydeth. I think Sean has something in mind for providing feedback to the authors of any item which made the Keep pile, but just missed out on the Top 32. That should include the alternates. He's still in the planning of stages of that, however. So, I'm unsure of the specifics. Just be patient. I can tell you right now you'll get feedback one way or another. And, it won't be a problem whether you get pulled up or not...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Cydeth

Okies, I just get nervous. I'll admit it, I have a profound lack of self-confidence in my work once I finish it (definitely my own worst critic), so no one was more surprised than me to find myself even as an alternate.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

We're all our own worst critics, Cydeth. But if you hold yourself to as high a standard as possible, sometimes what you view as a 90% effort is still seen as a 99% effort by everyone else.

Also, consider if you will that the third alternate in 2008 went on to place in the Top 6 that year. His name is Russ Taylor. And he's written extensively for Paizo on a number of hardcover books already. In fact, he's working on a couple of more right now.

Additionally, even if your number doesn't get called and you remain "just an alternate" for this year, you're already ahead of a lot of other would-be designers. Matt Goodall and I are already on record letting everyone know that we didn't even make it as an alternate (much less the Top 32) the first year we tried out for the contest. And yet, we both went on to win the whole thing.

What you need to keep in mind...and my advice to you...is to watch everything closely. You can learn a lot about game design and how this contest functions (including the ebb and flow in the reactions and support of the voting public) just by sitting back and keeping up with how the contest plays out.

I'll also note that many of the names you see in the Top 32 this year are also names I recall from those who followed along with the "Critique My Item" thread and all the other advice threads about the contest here on Paizo's messageboards. So, paying attention, applying yourself to learning more, and absorbing everything you can as the contest moves forward definitely can pay off for you.

It's all a matter of how seriously you take it. And how much you can grow between now and when you do crack the Top 32. And, from there, how much you can grow over the course of each round within the contest.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 aka Cydeth

Of course, and thank you for your words, Neil. I'm primarily a lurker, but I do watch things closely, and have for the past three years. Each year I know I've improved, which was almost enough for me out of the contest.

But I'm not going to give up. Giving up just isn't part of my nature...just ask my girlfiend (correct spelling) about how I am with brick walls in games.

Andoran

Clark Peterson wrote:
I'll tell you what...Feral, (and Feral only) post the name of your item here and I will tell you whether you even want to know.

Wow, really? Thanks.

I submitted Bracers of Skillful Maneuvers.

Also, after day one I do feel quite a bit better about the process. I don't agree with it, but I understand why the organizers choose to favor such large amounts of secrecy. I work in an industry that requires me to constantly deal with ironclad confidentiality. I had hoped this whole thing would be a bit more transparent.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Feral wrote:
...I had hoped this whole thing would be a bit more transparent.

It's actually a lot more transparent than you might think. Especially last year. Have you found your way to the forums for the prior years of RPG Superstar? Check out the "Critique My Item" thread from 2011. We pretty much responded to everyone who asked for feedback. And we copied-and-pasted just about the entire discussion each person's item elicited among the judges.

Now, some people weren't ready for that. I think a lot of folks think we go through some kind of in-depth analysis like the deeper dive commentary I gave some people in that same thread last year. But that was advice. We don't have time to frame our analysis to advise each submitter when we're sorting items in the judges' forum. We're not looking to provide feedback with our comments. Instead, we're seeking to achieve a quick opinion about an item. And we definitely challenge each other on how we view things. A lot of that kind of discussion isn't necessary to highlight for people.

That's why...when we're doing our utmost to be supportive of everyone who expressed an interest in the contest by submitting an item...we go to the extra effort to "sanitize" the comments. The "Critique My Item" thread is where we're able to translate and re-cast our comments in such a way that they do provide some measure of helpful feedback. And that's far more helpful to the contest than throwing back the curtain just to achieve full transparency. Even if we did that, you wouldn't get what you're looking for as a competitor who wants insight into why their item didn't make it.

So, Clark has already asked the Paizo tech team to help him dig out your item for him. I suspect he'll lead off with that one in the "Critique My Item" thread or post something here for you. Again, it'll be sanitized commentary based on the overall view of what the judges discussed. And, he may widen that analysis to give you a bit more of his personal take on it. I hope you realize that's a tremendous amount of access you're being granted. Clark doesn't do that for just everyone. I'm sure he wants very much to help set your mind at ease about the process, while also engaging you in the most supportive, encouraging way possible.

EDIT: I just took it upon myself to also look up your item. Unfortunately, I think you're going to be very disappointed. It wasn't received well at all by the judges. It only took two of them to Reject the entry. You did a somewhat decent job on the presentation, but the mechanics and core idea behind it were really rather mundane. Now keep in mind, I'm only talking about your item here. That's not a reflection on you as a person or even as a game designer. This short, 111-word item is all we have to assess. On its own, it isn't entirely indicative of what you may or may not be capable of doing as a would-be freelance game designer. So, my advice to you is to watch the remainder of the contest. And read through the critiques offered to the other items in the "Critique My Item" thread. Even go back through prior years and apply yourself to gaining a better idea of what a Superstar item brings to the contest. And then, try again. You can't get better if you don't keep learning and trying.

Andoran

I definitely recognize Clark is going above and beyond for me (or even abover and beyonder than usual).

Also, I immediately recognized a couple problems with my entry upon submitting it. I'm curious if my item was denied for the same flaws I recognized.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Feral, I just checked the judges' forum on your item.

Your item, and our comments on it, are a perfect example of why we should NOT open up our forum for private view.

Seeing us cull out items would only unnecessarily bruise egos and hurt feelings. There is no need to do that and that is NOT what this contest is about. We judges need to be able to evaluate quickly and often in a brutally honest way, in a way much different from how we would interact with you face to face. So there is just no need for you to see that.

Really, you can divide submitted items into several rough categories:

The Good

1. Superstar Top 32
2. Potential Superstar, but doesn't make the final cut
3. Interesting but flawed, like it enough to keep it initially, doesnt hold up once all the "kept" items are examined together

[the above three categories make it initially into the keep folder for later sorting]

The Not Quite Good Enough

4. good execution of an average idea, the item would make a book of wondrous items, but not good enough to be superstar
5. poor execution of a above average idea (if it was a little better, this likely would have been in category 3, above, and gotten into the keep folder)

[the above two types of items represent the BULK of all items submitted, which is a credit to this community. normally we require three of the four judges to review and vote to reject before the item is moved into the reject pile]

The Bad

6. the clear reject item--the spell in a can, the boring skill bonus item, etc. See Sean's list of bad item stereotypes.
7. the auto-reject item--over word count, wrong format, gag item, other clear rules violations.

[items in this category don't require three judges to even see. items in this category can be rejected by two judges.]

[by the way, these arent formal rules, they are just our practice. if an item is a clear reject and we all know that NO judge would keep the item then two judges are enough to boot the item into the reject bin. If there is any question that any judge might find the item worthwhile, we wait until at least 3 judges have reviewed it and if they all three reject it then it is rejected before the 4th even sees it.]

Your item fell into category 6.

It was a clear reject, and the comments were about what you would expect. I didn't even see your item. Two judges saw it and nuked it right away, which was appropriate. One noted basically "a skill bonus item, that is your superstar entry?" and another just said "boring" and hit reject.

Candidly, I don't think people really want to see that. And it isnt that helpful to you. You will get much more helpful feedback in the critique my item thread where not only can the community come in and comment, but the judges do, too. Neil is a machine. I usually burn out about half way through. :) And in that forum we can actually give you what you want--more constructive and detailed feedback and advice. That stuff simply is not in our judges forums, so opening them up wont help you.

Plus, we dont know anything about the authors. Imagine if one of the submissions that we thought was boring and we were amazed was even submitted--imagine if that submission was by a 15 year old Paizonian. We would be horrified for them to see our comments because that is not how we mean them. So even if a reasonable adult might want to see, there is still good reason not to just open up our chambers comments.

Andoran

Understood. Thanks for your time.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Feral wrote:
I understand why the organizers choose to favor such large amounts of secrecy. I work in an industry that requires me to constantly deal with ironclad confidentiality. I had hoped this whole thing would be a bit more transparent.

It's not secrecy, its privacy. That is different. Secrecy means I am intentionally hiding something from you. That is not what we are doing. Privacy is respecting the privacy and confidentiality of the contestants as well as the judges. True, both may share a common result--namely, that there is something you want to know that you dont get to know. But that doesnt mean they are the same thing. They are not, though they may look the same to your vantage point.

I also think if you stick around you will come to change your mind on transparency too. I dont think there is any way to really be more transparent, while at the same time respecting the confidentiality and privacy of the judges and contestants. This is the most dissected and discussed competition that I have ever seen, involving the actual judges helping the community over and over and over and over and explaining to you our reasoning and thoughts.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Feral wrote:
Understood. Thanks for your time.

Thanks for asking and thanks for being a good sport about this process and sort of being in the spotlight on this.

I hope you submit your item to the critique my item thread, because our comments are NOT what we would tell you in that forum. We would offer encouragement and advice and help you. Neil would, for sure. I would, too. Maybe even Sean :) For example, none of the judges talked about the fact that you did a really good job with the template (aside from spell name italics). Had this item been a bit better, it would have been category 4. You'd likely want some feedback on how to get there from where you are--though I'm not sure your item as envisioned would ever be better than that, but that is a limitation on the item you chose, not a comment on you as a designer. But that is the kind of stuff we could discuss in the thread.

I hope this helps highlight why we DON'T open our threads up.

Please stick with it. Don't get discouraged. Remember, we are NOT judging you as a person, we are only judging the singular item you submitted this year. That's it. Even Kobe Bryant misses free throws. :)

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Clark Peterson wrote:
This is the most dissected and discussed competition that I have ever seen, involving the actual judges helping the community over and over and over and over and explaining to you our reasoning and thoughts.

Ditto that.

The judges and companies who put on most contests completely wash their hands of those who don't make the cut. You never hear back from them. No rejection notice. No feedback whatsoever. Instead, it's the strength and passion of the gaming community, Paizo as a whole, and their supporters which fosters this deeper level of interaction with those who miss out on the top 1%-3% of everyone submitting to RPG Superstar. That's part of what makes this contest different (among a great many other things). And that's why I'm happy to keep giving back to it.

By the way, I posted this earlier for another contestant. If you want a sense for what the "Critique My Item" threads have been like in the past, visit some of those links. The first one is currently locked, but it'll be the thread to request feedback on your item this year...assuming you still want additional commentary on it, of course.

Andoran

Looking over the categories you presented I definitely think my item was a category 4 and I understand why it didn't make the cut.

My approach for my entry was this, find a niche that I'd like to see filled and create something that filled that niche in a balanced and efficient manner. I wanted to create something I could see characters/players realistically using. Looking over my entry now, I see it for what it is - something to put in an item book (APG 2.0?!). That said, for this contest the judges don't want to see that. Even if the end result isn't something that's terribly practical or likely to ever see use, you guys want to see design.

Thanks again. I'll strongly consider posting in the public critique thread.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now I'm looking through Clark's post to figure out where I think my item landed. Very interesting.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter 2013, Champion Voter 2014

If you want real and honest feedback, don't edit or proofread what you submitted. Neil will call you out!

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Feral wrote:
Looking over the categories you presented I definitely think my item was a category 4 and I understand why it didn't make the cut.

Actually, I still agree with Clark that it was more of a category 6 item. You were on the cusp of reaching category 4, but not quite there yet.

Feral wrote:
My approach for my entry was this, find a niche that I'd like to see filled and create something that filled that niche in a balanced and efficient manner. I wanted to create something I could see characters/players realistically using.

Those are very reasonable goals to pursue. You were definitely touching upon a niche that hadn't quite been explored yet. It just wasn't a very exciting or innovative one. And, it was definitely an item you could see PCs realistically using (which is what edges it toward category 4), but again, it just wasn't Superstar.

Feral wrote:
Looking over my entry now, I see it for what it is - something to put in an item book (APG 2.0?!). That said, for this contest the judges don't want to see that. Even if the end result isn't something that's terribly practical or likely to ever see use, you guys want to see design.

You know what, Feral? That is a very wise and astute personal assessment. You're lightyears ahead of many others who submit to this contest. Many go down this exact same development path and never understand why their item design isn't helping them stand out. But I think you've already learned a tremendous lesson on just your first time through the contest.

Feral wrote:
Thanks again. I'll strongly consider posting in the public critique thread.

You do that. Clark and I (and maybe Sean) will be around to engage folks there in a more thorough manner than what goes on in the judging chambers.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
If you want real and honest feedback, don't edit or proofread what you submitted. Neil will call you out!

Darn right I will! ;-P

Taldor RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I concur, Neil is an incredibly astute observer of writing styles and design-fu. The feedback I got from him during my runs at Superstar-dom were very helpful and spot-on. I look forward to seeing the judges' critique of this year's submission.

Dedicated Voter 2013

To any of the judges, I'm the other alternate left right now (along with Benjamin Medrano) from the first round. I am in the midst of finishing my organization for the next round for submission in case anyone else drops out. However, I find myself at a bit of a disadvantage in that I haven't seen the feedback from any of the judges as the Top32 contestants have available. Is there any way to get some of that feedback, even if in a private email or such, in case some of the comments may help improve the quality of my work?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Shadow Lodge null - Palouse Games , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Clark Peterson wrote:


Really, you can divide submitted items into several rough categories:

The Good

1. Superstar Top 32
2. Potential Superstar, but doesn't make the final cut
3. Interesting but flawed, like it enough to keep it initially, doesnt hold up once all the "kept" items are examined together

[the above three categories make it initially into the keep folder for later sorting]

The Not Quite Good Enough

4. good execution of an average idea, the item would make a book of wondrous items, but not good enough to be superstar
5. poor execution of a above average idea (if it was a little better, this likely would have been in category 3, above, and gotten into the keep folder)

[the above two types of items represent the BULK of all items submitted, which is a credit to this community. normally we require three of the four judges to review and vote to reject before the item is moved into the reject pile]

The Bad

6. the clear reject item--the spell in a can, the boring skill bonus item, etc. See Sean's list of bad item stereotypes.
7. the auto-reject item--over word count, wrong format, gag item, other clear rules violations.

[items in this category don't require three judges to even see. items in this category can be rejected by two judges.]

Any chance that if/when people decide to post their item in the " critique my item thread" they can request to get their item's number off this scale? Because now, like Feral, I'm curious to see where my item fell (as, I'm sure, are most people). If not I completely understand, after reading through your posts Clark/Neil.

Andoran

^ Pretty much what he said.

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

This years going to be weird for me.

The last four years, I kind of new I had goofed in some auto reject way as my knowledge grew from year to year.

This year, the only thing I can think of is I reigned in my enthusiasm too much.

So I will be posting my item for feedback when it opens because for the first time, I actually don't *know* where I goofed.

That is a very weird feeling right now.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How do you know if your item was auto-reject or got discused but didn't make it to the top 32?

I would asume if you were an alternated, you would be told, correct?

Shadow Lodge null - Palouse Games , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Dragon78 wrote:

How do you know if your item was auto-reject or got discused but didn't make it to the top 32?

I would asume if you were an alternated, you would be told, correct?

Yessir. The alternates were announced along with the 32 that made the cut.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013 aka Shadow-Mask

Dragon78 wrote:

How do you know if your item was auto-reject or got discused but didn't make it to the top 32?

I would asume if you were an alternated, you would be told, correct?

If you made alternate, you were notified by email at the same time as the Top 32.

As for whether your item was auto/clear rejected, post it in the critique thread when it opens up. The judges may or may not tell you specifically if it was a "clear" reject. You'll be told what you did well, and you'll get tons of advice on what to do better next time. :)

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

WalterGM wrote:
Any chance that if/when people decide to post their item they can request to get their item's number off this scale? Because now, like Feral, I'm curious to see where my item fell (as, I'm sure, are most people). If not I completely understand, after reading through your posts Clark/Neil.

That list is just my gut ranking of categories. Its not "official," and it is nothing we have ever discussed. It does reflect how we behave, however. I imagine the judges will likely agree with my three rough groups--keepers, good items but not quite keepers, and the ones we reject right away. I just used numbers to help break down what goes in those various three groups. So its not like this set of numbers was even discussed by the judges. I'm sure we can tell you, though, if your item was a keeper, a close but not enough, or a clear reject.

Shadow Lodge null - Palouse Games , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Clark Peterson wrote:
WalterGM wrote:
Any chance that if/when people decide to post their item they can request to get their item's number off this scale? Because now, like Feral, I'm curious to see where my item fell (as, I'm sure, are most people). If not I completely understand, after reading through your posts Clark/Neil.
That list is just my gut ranking of categories. Its not "official," and it is nothing we have ever discussed. It does reflect how we behave, however. I imagine the judges will likely agree with my three rough groups--keepers, good items but not quite keepers, and the ones we reject right away. I just used numbers to help break down what goes in those various three groups. So its not like this set of numbers was even discussed by the judges. I'm sure we can tell you, though, if your item was a keeper, a close but not enough, or a clear reject.

Awesome. Can't wait for that thread to open up. Thanks Clark.

Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

2 people marked this as a favorite.

If you dinnae want to use numbers this might help :)

Clark Peterson wrote:

Really, you can divide submitted items into several rough categories:

The Good

Great Wyrms. Superstar Top 32
Ancient Dragons. Potential Superstar, but doesn't make the final cut
Old Dragons. Interesting but flawed, like it enough to keep it initially, doesnt hold up once all the "kept" items are examined together

[the above three categories make it initially into the keep folder for later sorting]

The Not Quite Good Enough

Mature Dragons good execution of an average idea, the item would make a book of wondrous items, but not good enough to be superstar
Young Adult Dragons poor execution of a above average idea (if it was a little better, this likely would have been in category 3, above, and gotten into the keep folder)

[the above two types of items represent the BULK of all items submitted, which is a credit to this community. normally we require three of the four judges to review and vote to reject before the item is moved into the reject pile]

The Bad

Wyrmlings the clear reject item--the spell in a can, the boring skill bonus item, etc. See Sean's list of bad item stereotypes.
Not yet hatched dragons the auto-reject item--over word count, wrong format, gag item, other clear rules violations.

...

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Looks for "Decrepit Dracolich with Severe Arthritis"

Sighs, Not there.

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