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More Prominent Brevoy? (Spoilers)


Kingmaker


I'm planning on running Kingmaker with a heavier emphasis on Brevoy. This may mean replacing the last adventures, or changing them substantially. Here's an outline of what I'm planning:

Background:
The campaign will start before the vanishing of King Rogarvia's family. Brevoy will be in the middle (ok, end-ish) of one of their most stable periods. This is why they are turning their sights south. The Swordlords are acting under the King's orders in mapping the Stolen Lands.

Later on in the campaign, the Vanishing will happen in the background. The PC's will unfortunately be too busy to join the long debates on what to do about it (although they may send a representative). Lord Surtova (who I'm going to introduce in person before this) will be chosen Regent. They'll order Restov to cease supporting the settlers, eventually building up talk of a civil war.

At this point someone will point out a "loophole" in the PC's oaths of featly to the King, which actually mean the Independent Barony/Earldom (see below) is independent in truth, no longer bound to the Brevoy throne. (Has the old King planned this? Why?) Lord Mayor Sellemius will back the PC's claim, and Regent Surtova will accept it in exchange for either their or the Lord Mayor's backing when taking the throne.

(This assuming the PC's havent either allied themselves with house Surtova, or alienated the Lord Mayor before this. And assuming they won't renew their oaths, in which case they can probably negotiate something else for themselves.)

So I have a few questions. Three at first, probably more to come.

1. Has anyone done anything like the above? Or maybe included the Vanishing in their campaign in another way? (I want to steal your best ideas;)

2. Is there a canonical hierarchy for the nobles of Brevoy? Or has someone detailed their own? Below are my plans, but I could change it, especially if there are NPCs to be used.

Brevoy Nobles:
The nobles in the chapter on Brevoy are the King, the Lords and the Lord Mayor. The kingdom rules mention Barons and Dukes.

I'm thinking that Lords are the highest landed nobles, equivalent to Dukes in other kingdoms. Below them are Earls and Barons, also landed, hereditary nobles. The Lord Mayor is a special honorary title outside this system, generally taken to be equivalent to Earl (although some Earls and Barons naturally contest this). Non-landed titles include at least Lord Knight (non-hereditary, granted for valour or military service) and Lord Steward (non-hereditary, for high ranking administrators).

I'm planning on not using the size based titles in the kingdom rules. Instead the PC's "kingdom" starts as an Independent Barony, owing featly only to the King himself. (This is the loophole. If House Rogarvia is no longer on the throne, they are no longer bound by their oaths. Usually oaths are to the Dragonscale throne.)

Many Earls and Lords oppose this viciously, House Surtova foremost. Once they annex Varnhold (another such barony), the King names the combined land an Independent Earldom, also giving them a right to grant a limited number of titles to raise vassals. (This further inflames the already deteriorating relations between north and south.)

3. Any ideas or plot hooks regarding Brevoy and especially the King's Vanishing, beyond those in the AP? Any nice stories about incorporating any of those in your campaigns? Comments on the above?


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Maps, Modules Subscriber

I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).

My Kingmaker campaign is nearing the end of Chapter 1 right now, but I'm planning a couple of things that might interest you.

First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as "You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests?" (Other questions asked for info on their immediate family, an ally and an enemy "back home in Brevoy," as well as a "troubling mystery for which they don't know the answer.")

I'm using the information from their backgrounds to supplement a guest list for a large gala party in Restov at which they will receive their charter to found their kingdom. For most of the NPCs attending, I'm using random tables from a variety of sources to create secret motivations and plot hooks. The PCs will probably only interact with a limited number of these hooks at the gala - but they might choose to recruit some of these NPCs as members of their ruling council, and they'll certainly have future opportunities to interact with the NPCs. (Some of the NPC plots are things that will just wait until the PCs stumble across them before I develop them further - a few, however, might continue to develop in the background.)

The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:

Spoiler:
In my version of the story, Choral visited Nyrissa (similar to how Irovetti did) prior to conquering Brevoy, and gained something from her which aided his ability to form his army (or charm his dragons) and thus create Brevoy in the first place. Nyrissa retained something from him, perhaps some blood or hair.

At the time of the Vanishing, Nyrissa used the Oculus of Abaddon (and some magic mirrors which opened a magical portal) to snatch all the descendents of House Rogarvia, using Choral's blood/hair/whatever as a link to only call Choral's descendents through the mirror portals, while everyone else slept an enchanted sleep). The Rogarvians are in soul jars similar to those which will be holding the kidnapped folk of Varnhold in chapter 3; Nyrissa is using them as part of a web of components to power her ritual for the end of chapter 6.

Sometime after the end of chapter 1, Nyrissa uses another mirror (which then shatters in place) to deliver the Oculus to Vordakai's Tomb, where Vordakai can discover and use it once he awakens. I'm also planning on having a lock of Nyrissa-hair on Willas Gunderson (sp?) along with enough of a rough map to imply that Nyrissa somehow arranged for him to discover the Tomb and awaken Vordakai.

Related details - Nyrissa used a similar magic-mirror portal to kill the unicorn that is found in Stolen Land - my PCs found mirror shards at the site from the shattered mirror she had to leave behind. Nyrissa can "step through" a mirror portal, but she's really only projecting a reflection of herself, so if she leaves line-of-sight, the mirror shatters and she is jolted back into her body. This way, she can do things like kill the unicorn, but still be trapped. The Rogarvians stepped through the mirror portals when called by the oculus, so those mirrors may still be intact in the various manor houses etc. that they left, or there may be a shattered mirror in each such structure - I haven't decided yet.

(Presumably, there's a magic-mirror-maker somewhere in Brevoy to create and deliver these things - or maybe Nyrissa makes them herself and has a minion who can deliver them, I haven't decided that part yet.)

I should note that the other consequence of this storyline is, assuming the PCs defeat Nyrissa at the end of chapter 6, they'll find a whole bunch of soul jars with Rogarvians inside - including Choral! (After all, where else would he have gone when he departed Brevoy?) They'll have to decide whether or not to release the Rogarvians; doing so could plunge Brevoy into war (again?), but failing to do so would mean leaving all of them (including children) trapped forever. I expect that our campaign won't end when they defeat Nyrissa, it will only end after they deal with the aftermath of this decision, and determine the fates of their own nation and Brevoy/Issia/Rostland once and for all.


Wow Cintra that is awesome!!!, its ties up many loose ends and extends the campaign nicely. I'm stealing it, Thanks.


In my campaign one of the characters is a bastard of the house of Rogarvia and when he finds all the soul jars at the end he has additional option of only releasing his mother and father who disowned him to prove his lineage and leaving him as one of the only surviving members of the house of Rogarvia. It would be pretty evil and I would force an alignment change but he’s a Magus so it won’t impact his stats much.

Also if they release Choral the conqueror he will immediately try to destroy the party and take command of all of Brevoy and then try and conquer the stolen lands.


Cintra Bristol wrote:
I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).

Yes. Especially if some players choose relevant campaign traits.

Cintra Bristol wrote:
First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as [...]

I'd like to see my players do something like that, but I'm lucky if half of the PCs have names when the campaign starts. ;)

I usually get character background material only once they get to know their character better.

Cintra Bristol wrote:

The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks, that's good stuff. I might use it as is except:

Spoiler:
I'm concerned two BBEGs using soul jars on a large scale would cause a bit of a deja vu. The Oculus of Abaddon would also by the time of the Vanishing in my campaign likely be in the PC's hands.

That reminds me: Are Nyrissa and Vordakai supposed to know about each other?


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Maps, Modules Subscriber

Biobeast - Thanks!

For my campaign, I figure there might be a Rogarvian heir or two still out there, although I haven't defined any yet. They need to have been "not at home" when the Vanishing occurred, and not somewhere that she would have discovered their presence to include them - which should be fairly simple to justify for your disowned PC.

Hassy - Regarding your last spoiler tag:

Spoiler:
Vordakai's been gone for thousands of years, so as written, I don't believe there's a connection.

As far as the deja vu and timing issues...My PCs won't discover the Vanishing was related until much later, possibly not until they enter Nyrissa's home. So for my group, it will be more a foreshadowing/connecting of events rather than a "haven't we done this before?" situation.

If you like the idea, but the timing throws you off, just consider if there's any way for Nyrissa to steal the Oculus when the time is right. If not, she can still be responsible, just not by using the Oculus - taking everyone of a single bloodline is different from taking everyone in an area, after all, and I had to explain that away to make my version work.

As for background information, a few years ago, I started giving my players one- or two-page questionaires suited to the campaign. Here's the list of questions I used for Kingmaker. They're very wordy, because I've found I get better results if I explain my reason for asking each question. With 10-point Calibri font and limited response space, it fit onto two pages.

Spoiler:

There is someone in Brevoy with whom you’ve had substantial conflict. Who is it? Why is there conflict between you? How does the conflict usually play out? The idea is to create a connection to someone back home that can be a source of friction.

Someone back home has been a substantial ally of yours; you get along very well. Who is it? Describe an occasion when the alliance came into play. The idea is to create a connection to someone back home that has been a positive influence for you. They need not belong to a PC class. Perhaps they will communicate news and rumors to you, or send new settlers or quests your way. They might even come to your assistance (or expect you to come to their assistance) in time of great need. OPTION: Briefly define up to three separate allies, each with a different relationship to you (parent/sibling/mentor/friend/colleague).

You carry a possession that has great meaning to you. What is it, and why is it so important? Preferably something other than a weapon, implement, armor, or standard gear. It is most interesting when it has a bit of story connected to it.

You have a secret that you hide from others (including the other PCs). What is this secret? e.g. A shameful failure or misdeed in your past that continues to haunt you; a bastard child; a broken betrothal; a fear or desire that affects your decisions. NOTE: This secret should affect the way you play your character, and/or reasonably be brought into play by the DM (eventually).

There is a troubling mystery for which you don’t know the answer. What is this mystery? e.g. A sibling (or your betrothed/ lover/ best friend/longtime rival/mentor) vanished while traveling abroad (or from home or their workplace); you lost something precious to you; an unusual object keeps reappearing in your possessions no matter how often you lose or destroy it; an animal or person keeps watching from a distance, though you never get close (or learn nothing useful when you do); you were once found wandering in the woods with no recollection of how you got there or what happened for a missing period of 10 days/2 weeks/2 months. NOTE: This should be a mystery your character wants to solve, that can reasonably be brought into play by the DM at some point in the campaign; the DM has creative control of this mystery’s final answers.

You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests? The intent is to give you a connection to someone with a political axe to grind. Possible “interests” might include: stabilize the southern border as an future ally for Rostland against the north (Issia); report to someone whose loyalty is to the north (Issia); find means to help prevent civil war between Rostland and Issia; find valuable resources that can be exploited for profit by wealthy investors from Brevoy; represent a specific noble house or other person or group’s interests; OR, your patron might be someone who is politically connected and to whom you owe a debt, and you may not know their actual agenda at this time.

Describe your ideal spouse. This campaign will span years of game time – and many if not all PCs will eventually have families of their own. Assume this, and give some thought to how you want this to develop for your PC. You may already be betrothed or have a beloved. You may already be married. More likely, you will find your true love during the campaign – but it is up to you as the player to help make this happen, both by being open to it, and by providing the DM with enough information to ensure that good candidates can be introduced. You are quite welcome to help create your NPC future spouse, within reason.

What do you like to do when you have down-time? What sorts of hobbies and interests does your PC have? The idea is to make your PC more rounded and interesting by thinking about things other than adventuring that he likes to do – and what sorts of businesses he’ll eventually be interested in promoting. Does he collect something? Make something? Play a musical instrument? Would he rather carouse in a tavern or read a book? Does he enjoy the theater? Dancing? Gambling? Fine food?

Define your family. You have some options here. Choose ONE, and provide the answer on the back of this page:
Create your immediate family tree. Provide name and gender; for at least five still-living relatives (siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins), give a sentence-fragment comment about them or their relationship with you.
Briefly define three to five members of your family who are (or may become) important to you. These may be immediate family or distant kin; provide appropriate names. You needn’t have a strong relationship with them (e.g. the titled cousin you’ve never met), but then you leave them to the DM to develop…
If your background doesn’t allow for this many relatives, define caregivers and others who are your “effective family” i.e. people you grew up around, for better or for worse. This can be in combination with the above options (e.g. family tree shows two living relatives, and you list three people who were like family: your kindly but clueless nanny, your cruel tutor, and the saxophone player who lived under a nearby bridge and gave you your love of music.)

What non-Ruler posting(s) will you as a player be aiming for? For optimal player cooperation, aim for a listed role, and let the eventual “ruler” be chosen by the party for in-game reasons. Each role utilizes ONE of the two attributes listed.
• Councilor: WIS or CHA
• General: STR or CHA
• Grand Diplomat: INT or CHA
• High Priest: WIS or CHA
• Magister: INT or CHA
• Marshal: DEX or WIS
• Royal Assassin: STR or DEX
• Spymaster: DEX or INT
• Treasurer: INT or WIS
• Warden: STR or CON


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Cintra Bristol wrote:

Hassy - Regarding your last spoiler tag:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

After thinking about it some more it actually makes more sense to me if N doesn't use the Oculus, but some kind of blood magic.

She might still get the soul jar idea from scrying on V and/or the PCs. One of those can get "lost", and she'll copy the design. Maybe she took Choral earlier and couldn't keep him alive long enough for her rituals, but the soul jars get around that problem.

If someone rolls a natural 20 on Perception to notice scrying, he'll hear a voice say: "I should have thought of that!"

Yes, I think I'll use this. Unless my players get uncooperative with my plans. :)


In a weird turn of events, I have done this almost exactly, except

Spoiler:
mushroom rings instead of mirrors. My next step, for book 3, was reintroducing them to Brevoy nobility. Now I know how. :)


Woe, this worked brilliantly. After hours battling Nyrissa and finally taking her down. I mention that this ends the written part of the campaign the players thought they were just wrapping things up by releasing the Nobles from the house of Rogarvia. They do it at their castle with the grand diplomat releasing and welcoming them one by one explaining what happened. The Duke and Duchess are sitting on their thrones trying to impress all these released nobles. My player who was a bastard meets his father (a Rogarvian noble) for the first time who does remember his mother and welcomes him as a lost son.

Then the 86th soul jar gets opened and out pops an Ancient Red Dragon who says he is Choral the conqueror and everyone must immediately swear fealty to him or die. All the Rogarivian lords do so immediately after all he is why they ruled for 200 years. The party refuses thinking rightly so they will lose control of their kingdom and we stopped our session there. Next week we start the fight; the party with no buffs against choral as written in the pack of the AP. I think the party is going to get their lunch handed to them and they will eventually have to retreat. Choral will then take over the players kingdom and now we have more adventuring to do while the party attempts to reclaim their kingdom.


Interesting development indeed.

However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.

On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.

The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).

It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.

I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make for interesting adventures as well. After all Choral's enemies will be powerful enough to provide more than enough challenge for the party and they might explore some exotic locations when they deal with them. And if it turns out that for example Choral is a key player in keeping the Whispering Tyrant locked up, could even a paladin plot against him?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Old Drake wrote:

Interesting development indeed.

However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.

On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.

The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).

It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.

I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make for interesting...

That's pretty interesting Old Drake.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
PJ wrote:
Old Drake wrote:

Interesting development indeed.

However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.

On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.

The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).

It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.

I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make

...

I've yet to come up with a satisfying story to what happened to the Whole Rogarvia line not just Choral.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
PJ wrote:
PJ wrote:
Old Drake wrote:

Interesting development indeed.

However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.

On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.

The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).

It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.

I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but

...

My best bet was that whom ever he made a deal with came for payment.... I'm not sure why the whole line disappeared though. Unless he hid or ran to another plane of existence and whoever he crossed took it out on anyone with even a drop of Choral in them.


Old Drake wrote:

Interesting development indeed.

However Choral didn't win the kingdom by being stupid or trying to chew more than he could. Why would he want to destroy the party? They saved him. More importantly, they are powerful and would make the best generals/agents he could hope for.

On the minus, they defied him in the open. Of course that can be excused in the long run because they were surprised by his nature. And if he can simply shrug off their assault and shock and awe them into an alliance, that would be even better for him.

The party probably is not high enough level to defeat him at this point, but with both sides unprepared, I wouldn't bet on it. Depending on how you want to develop him, I'd add a few character levels (cleric, druid, witch, or wizard seem appropriate, depending on how you want to portrait him) and let him simply weather the parties initial assault, concentrating on defense, if he feels he needs to act at all. He could also release his dragon friends/mates/allies/whatever from other soul jars; how would the party react to another two dragons? lol.
After he shrugs off their attacks, I'd grapple two spellcasters (everyone probably is within reach as combat starts), and then request (obviously sad at the unnecessary violence) that they immediately stop their attacks, using his aura to overawe people (and sending all NPCs running so they can negotiate in private).

It might still end in combat with the players fleeing and then trying to regain their kingdom, but I believe Choral should at least attempt to negotiate. I'd go so far as to propose that the players act as his regents for their lifespan (a minor amount of time for him) and manage not only their kingdom, but all of Brevoy as well in his name. And maybe a lot more beyond the current borders. It would give him time to manage all his other plots and handle his rivals and whatever schemes they have put into place since his disappearance.

I don't know if your players would ever consider it, but it could make for interesting...

Basically the oath of fealty was the him offering them to run their kingdoms as a dukedom to his greater kingdom and the party refused. There is also an alignment difference, the party members are either NG and LN, while Choral is CE. I'm playing him as utterly ruthless, if the party doesn't play by his rules they must be disposed off, he wants absolute obedience to his rule.


PJ wrote:

I've yet to come up with a satisfying story to what happened to the Whole Rogarvia line not just Choral.

My best bet was that whom ever he made a deal with came for payment.... I'm not sure why the whole line disappeared though. Unless he hid or ran to another plane of existence and whoever he crossed took it out on anyone with even a drop of Choral in them.

I'd be glad to help you come up with a satisfying story (as I'm sure would many here), but the question is so open ended, that without any idea of where you want to take your campaign, it's unlikely any speculations will fit perfectly.

But let's try:


  • I.) There was no attack, conspiracy, or running. Choral casts as Sorcerer 19 (without bloodline) and has limited wish on his list.
    [list]
  • 1) Choral knew a descendant was plotting against him and wished the line away. Now limited wish isn't powerful enough, but it could perhaps transport every member of a bloodline to a prison he constructed, and since he was stretching the powers of the spell, it took him along for the ride.
  • 2) Choral was experimenting with an artifact he found and failed to correctly identify it.
    [list]
  • a) The artifact was designed to cleanse an area of draconic blood. All dragon descendants in Brevoy disappeared that night, but in the turmoil, it was either missed completely or they were classified as clan Rogarvia bastards after disappearance, because they disappeared along with the family.
  • b) The artifact was a sacrificial altar to a power beyond. It was created for devout followers to sacrifice themselves and their family - the magic followed the blood. Choral activated it without knowing what it was, and it got through his SR. Whether the line is dead or their souls are just captured and could still be saved would be up to you.
  • c) The artifact was once created to share knowledge amongst family. When Choral activated it, it summoned every member of the bloodline and linked their minds. Everyone knew what everyone else was scheming to do and really thought; that was the reason it was buried and forgotten! Some were driven insane and the rest took objections to what was planned... so many plotted against Choral, that he decided to finish them all and succeeded, but suffered a mortal would in the process. Or maybe he was one of the insane ones and is recovering now... and with all that knowledge picked up a few class levels in the process... and maybe a new alignment... but how sane is he?
  • d) Choral used an artifact to improve himself. It worked, but there was now so much power in his body, that it broke down. He tried to save himself with a limited wish, redirecting some power to his bloodline, but instead i created a feedback loop that overpowered every member of the family. They could have ascended like in Stargate or merely died.

  • 3) A member of the family is a high powered wizard and tried to use Wish to boost the family.
    • a) He wanted to turn everyone into a dragon. It worked, after a fashion. But they all turned into the same dragon and have been locked for decades in a struggle of who controls the mind. Once it's sorted out he will reappear, but have multiple personality disorder - with each personality having different class levels to boost his powers. And contradicting plots and desires.
    • b) The wish was ill formulated and to give them a better understanding of the world turned every member of the family into humans of the opposing gender and alignment... that arrived somewhere on Golarion without any money or access to their abilities. Some are now approaching the power needed to reverse the transformation... in fact a well known female paladin might turn out to Choral.

  • 4) Choral wanted to boost his own power by getting a sorcerer bloodline. The ritual (possibly involving multiple wishes) locked on his blood and tried to change it... it worked, but the new blood couldn't support the life of either Choral nor any descendants.
    [/list]
  • II.) A deal made
    • 1) Choral made a deal centuries ago for the souls himself and all his descendants. The contractor collected.
    • 2) Someone else made a deal with some great power to remove Choral and his bloodline. Given how far Choral's plots stretched, it might not have anything to do with Brevoy. Of course Choral is merely imprisoned and can be rescued.
    • 3) Choral was involved in a combat and at the verge of defeat and offered anything to any power that would aid him - and something answered. Now the debt came due.
      [list]
    • a) Choral and his family are now slaves to some power beyond and serve as gladiators or slaves.
    • b) Choral and family now serve as mercenaries in a great war. Not many live, but those that do have gained much experience. Their term of service is nearing it's end.
    • c) Their souls were collected and are now used as money, but some outsiders have decided that Choral and some of his blood may be worth more if they are let free and are even now negotiating the terms of release.

    [/list]
  • III.) Choral's machinations
    • 1) Choral has discovered something of critical importance and needed time to study it but was afraid of what his family would do - that it would dispose him and destroy the kingdom. So he arranged for them all to be killed before going into hiding.
      [list]
    • a) He stopped a great evil from returning. Maybe the Whispering Tyrant. Maybe Rovagug.
    • b) A force for good or evil that was specifically targeting him was plotting behind the scenes. Now they no longer do.
    • c) There's a prophecy about his death. He's trying to understand it and failing.

  • 2) Choral has grown tired of his families struggle to dispose him or impress him and simply killed them. He then left, because he grew bored with Brevoy.
  • 3) Choral found/developed a ritual that required the sacrifice of people related by blood. After killing them all he has been hibernating and transforming.
  • 4) Choral has found a place with greener grass and taken his whole family along to build something new, something better. If he returns it might be at the head of armies.
    [/list]
  • IV.) Outside attack. It could be another dragon or other interest group.
  • V.) The aboleth did it. Somehow. They are after all responsible for everything.
  • VI.) Family infighting. A number of plots happened to come to fruition at the same time leaving few if any members of the family alive.
    [/list]

    Edit: Well, looks like the site can't handle three lists at once... oh well, it should still be readable.


  • With regard to your point V.) I offer in refute The Aboleth Flowchart.


    Bigrin da Troll wrote:
    With regard to your point V.) I offer in refute The Aboleth Flowchart.

    :)

    I thought the sarcasm was obvious, but I guess not.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
    Old Drake wrote:
    PJ wrote:

    I've yet to come up with a satisfying story to what happened to the Whole Rogarvia line not just Choral.

    My best bet was that whom ever he made a deal with came for payment.... I'm not sure why the whole line disappeared though. Unless he hid or ran to another plane of existence and whoever he crossed took it out on anyone with even a drop of Choral in them.

    I'd be glad to help you come up with a satisfying story (as I'm sure would many here), but the question is so open ended, that without any idea of where you want to take your campaign, it's unlikely any speculations will fit perfectly.

    But let's try:


    • I.) There was no attack, conspiracy, or running. Choral casts as Sorcerer 19 (without bloodline) and has limited wish on his list.
      [list]
    • 1) Choral knew a descendant was plotting against him and wished the line away. Now limited wish isn't powerful enough, but it could perhaps transport every member of a bloodline to a prison he constructed, and since he was stretching the powers of the spell, it took him along for the ride.
    • 2) Choral was experimenting with an artifact he found and failed to correctly identify it.
      [list]
    • a) The artifact was designed to cleanse an area of draconic blood. All dragon descendants in Brevoy disappeared that night, but in the turmoil, it was either missed completely or they were classified as clan Rogarvia bastards after disappearance, because they disappeared along with the family.
    • b) The artifact was a sacrificial altar to a power beyond. It was created for devout followers to sacrifice themselves and their family - the magic followed the blood. Choral activated it without knowing what it was, and it got through his SR. Whether the line is dead or their souls are just captured and could still be saved would be up to you.
    • c) The artifact was once created to share knowledge amongst family. When Choral activated it, it summoned every member of the bloodline and linked their minds. Everyone knew what everyone else was
    [/list][/list]...

    We should expand on these.

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
    Cintra Bristol wrote:

    I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).

    My Kingmaker campaign is nearing the end of Chapter 1 right now, but I'm planning a couple of things that might interest you.

    First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as "You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests?" (Other questions asked for info on their immediate family, an ally and an enemy "back home in Brevoy," as well as a "troubling mystery for which they don't know the answer.")

    I'm using the information from their backgrounds to supplement a guest list for a large gala party in Restov at which they will receive their charter to found their kingdom. For most of the NPCs attending, I'm using random tables from a variety of sources to create secret motivations and plot hooks. The PCs will probably only interact with a limited number of these hooks at the gala - but they might choose to recruit some of these NPCs as members of their ruling council, and they'll certainly have future opportunities to interact with the NPCs. (Some of the NPC plots are things that will just wait until the PCs stumble across them before I develop them further - a few, however, might continue to develop in the background.)

    The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:
    ** spoiler omitted **...

    I like this solution, it's incredibly elegant and ties the entire campaign together without negating anything. I might borrow this for my own game. Well done.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
    Cintra Bristol wrote:

    I assume you're already incorporating the noble house members listed in the Brevoy article (in the same issue as Stolen Land).

    My Kingmaker campaign is nearing the end of Chapter 1 right now, but I'm planning a couple of things that might interest you.

    First, I had each player fill out a Background Questionaire which included questions such as "You have a particular patron who suggested you for the exploration of the Greenbelt. Who is it? What is their interest in this project? What is it about your relationship that makes them think you’ll be a particularly good agent for their interests?" (Other questions asked for info on their immediate family, an ally and an enemy "back home in Brevoy," as well as a "troubling mystery for which they don't know the answer.")

    I'm using the information from their backgrounds to supplement a guest list for a large gala party in Restov at which they will receive their charter to found their kingdom. For most of the NPCs attending, I'm using random tables from a variety of sources to create secret motivations and plot hooks. The PCs will probably only interact with a limited number of these hooks at the gala - but they might choose to recruit some of these NPCs as members of their ruling council, and they'll certainly have future opportunities to interact with the NPCs. (Some of the NPC plots are things that will just wait until the PCs stumble across them before I develop them further - a few, however, might continue to develop in the background.)

    The second thing I'm planning involves the Vanishing. I'm putting this in spoiler, because it necessarily involves many specific plot elements from throughout the adventure path:
    ** spoiler omitted **...

    I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to use your Rogarvia story but it definitely lends itself quite well.


    Great thread. I'm in Chapter 2 now and one of my PCs is an abandoned member of the Rogarvian line. He was out of Brevoy at the time and didn't speak Common so Cintra's plotline works well for why he wouldn't have disappeared too. He's now a 5th level cavalier and in New Stetven side-questing by checking out the family's abandoned villa. My goal is to feed him a little clue, but give him the sense that this is much bigger and beyond his current ability to handle or even comprehend.

    Thanks so much!


    Just an update on what I ended up doing so far.

    The players and Varn were sent first to tame the Stolen Lands and Urzen* discreetly named them (Varn and a PC) Barons of their respective domains once they had mapped the area. Once this became public knowledge the Issian Lords, Surtova foremost, complained about Rogarvia gathering too much power, what with Skywatch having been established a while ago and now two new Baronies.

    As an offering of peace King Urzen gave apparently neutral** House Lebeda permission to send two parties of their own to the western part of the Stolen Lands to found Baronies that would swear fealty to them. Surtova agreed, since he had already made an alliance with House Lebeda (Natala will be marrying young Lord Lander once he comes of age).

    Everything in court seems to be settling down, but most Lords are quietly forging alliances and making sure their troops can be quickly raised if need be.

    * Not missing, yet, see OP.
    ** Lebeda was never a part of Issia, but is hardly an ally of the Conquerors either.

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