Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.
Which post? I thought I responded to you.
Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.
I think she means this one.
Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.
No. I think I am standing on that "unspoken line" and that has drawn a lot of attention. :(
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Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.
Nope. I've been worried. I am seriously in a position where I cannot trust my own mind. My upbringing and surrounding influences have screwed me in the head that badly. I don't open up like this often and usually I fear I have screwed up my attempt to get anything meaningful. The dark side of feminism and cultural norms loom over me like stormclouds and I've been struck with lightning more times than I'd like.
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Nope. I've been worried. I am seriously in a position where I cannot trust my own mind. My upbringing and surrounding influences have screwed me in the head that badly. I don't open up like this often and usually I fear I have screwed up my attempt to get anything meaningful. The dark side of feminism and cultural norms loom over me like stormclouds and I've been struck with lightning more times than I'd like.Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.
Whatever happened there, it probably wasn't your fault.
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Nope.Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.
Forgive us if it seems like we were ignoring your post. HD replied, I attempted, in my next post, to indicate solidarity with that position. As did Mama Kelsey, btw.
Don't overthink who you're attracted to, it's not worth it. Just go out there and try to get in their pants. If it makes you feel too guilty, you can go and try to be in a relationship with someone you're not attracted to--although, in my experiene, those don't usually end well.
As to some unspoken line, no, I don't think so. I think if you go back and read through this thread, you'll see that it's like 17 different conversations going on all at the same time that don't really have anything to do with each other except they're about geekdom and gender issues. You'll notice, for one example, that Houstonderek and Evil Lincoln aren't arguing about the same thing.
Umbral Reaver, I actually meant to respond to your post earlier, but by the time I got to it there were like three pages of something totally else being discussed. :)
I'm not really sure what to say other than I think you summed up my feelings on the matter really well. Being a woman who is attracted to other women means you can't win for losing when this kind of stuff is discussed. The guilt can really get to you in subtle ways. And the double standards are enough to make me want to scream.
I have my petty moments too. I once got so tired of having a self-proclaimed feminist that was in my gaming group complain about the way I portrayed my female characters that I deliberately made a female character who embodied every bad male stereotype I could think of. I thought her head was going to explode. And when she complained I pointed out that I was only doing the exact same things that all of the male characters had been doing all along without any complaints from her. Object lesson achieved in probably the least mature manner possible. But sometimes it's harder to get other women to see when they're being obnoxious about gender roles.
I don't think it's the sexy art that offends most people as much as when making snarky or serious remarks about how the majority of women are portrayed that way being told "you don't get what it means to be an empowered woman" as if being a sex idol is the only way to be empowered.
It's not really as common an occurrence as the article would imply, and it doesn't only happen to women. I remember back when I was in elementary school when the media portrayed manly men as overbearing in muscles and chests covered in hair. I don't really see that as attractive, but apparently it was what the media portrayed as the popular thing.
Point is, it's nice to see sexiness all over the place, but it'd also be nice to know that you don't have to be selling sex to be empowered.
I don't think it's the sexy art that offends most people as much as when making snarky or serious remarks about how the majority of women are portrayed that way being told "you don't get what it means to be an empowered woman" as if being a sex idol is the only way to be empowered.
It's not really as common an occurrence as the article would imply, and it doesn't only happen to women. I remember back when I was in elementary school when the media portrayed manly men as overbearing in muscles and chests covered in hair. I don't really see that as attractive, but apparently it was what the media portrayed as the popular thing.
Point is, it's nice to see sexiness all over the place, but it'd also be nice to know that you don't have to be selling sex to be empowered.
That sounds great in theory. The problem comes with defining what qualifies as a 'sex idol'. There are so many different definitions that the whole thing ends up as one big mess.
That sounds great in theory. The problem comes with defining what qualifies as a 'sex idol'. There are so many different definitions that the whole thing ends up as one big mess.I don't think it's the sexy art that offends most people as much as when making snarky or serious remarks about how the majority of women are portrayed that way being told "you don't get what it means to be an empowered woman" as if being a sex idol is the only way to be empowered.
It's not really as common an occurrence as the article would imply, and it doesn't only happen to women. I remember back when I was in elementary school when the media portrayed manly men as overbearing in muscles and chests covered in hair. I don't really see that as attractive, but apparently it was what the media portrayed as the popular thing.
Point is, it's nice to see sexiness all over the place, but it'd also be nice to know that you don't have to be selling sex to be empowered.
I don't know, how about knowing that I don't have to have huge boobs, a huge ass, a tiny waist (and possibly have a rubber spine to show off all the features), wear skimpy clothes, and look like I'm in heat to be empowered.
There are quite a few females protagonists that go against that grain, but it's ridiculous when you run into someone who truly believes that particular archetype is the embodiment of an empowered woman.
Nope.Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.Forgive us if it seems like we were ignoring your post. HD replied, I attempted, in my next post, to indicate solidarity with that position. As did Mama Kelsey, btw.
Don't overthink who you're attracted to, it's not worth it. Just go out there and try to get in their pants. If it makes you feel too guilty, you can go and try to be in a relationship with someone you're not attracted to--although, in my experiene, those don't usually end well.
As to some unspoken line, no, I don't think so. I think if you go back and read through this thread, you'll see that it's like 17 different conversations going on all at the same time that don't really have anything to do with each other except they're about geekdom and gender issues. You'll notice, for one example, that Houstonderek and Evil Lincoln aren't arguing about the same thing.
I'm going to stand with my favorite goblin on this, Umbral. His advice to you is really good.
Nope. I've been worried. I am seriously in a position where I cannot trust my own mind. My upbringing and surrounding influences have screwed me in the head that badly. I don't open up like this often and usually I fear I have screwed up my attempt to get anything meaningful. The dark side of feminism and cultural norms loom over me like stormclouds and I've been struck with lightning more times than I'd like.Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.
You don't control what turns you on, and it's useless to try. After all, you didn't choose to be a lesbian, did you? The same applies to artwork. What turns you on turns you on. It's not a choice, and you bear no guilt over it. Also, remember that these images are purposely sexualized. People are supposed to find them attractive. So, you are turned on by something that was supposed to turn people on. Maybe you don't agree that this should be the primary intention of the art, but at the moment it often is. You can't control that, so it's best to accept what turns you on while saying you'd like more sensible women. As a lesbian myself, I'm in the same position as you. I love sexualized art, but I also want images of women I want to be, and I would appreciate more practicality in female artwork. I both greatly love the art and take issues with certain elements. No dishonor in that position. You deserve better than to have to agonize over what you are attracted to.
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That sounds great in theory. The problem comes with defining what qualifies as a 'sex idol'. There are so many different definitions that the whole thing ends up as one big mess.
Point is, it's nice to see sexiness all over the place, but it'd also be nice to know that you don't have to be selling sex to be empowered.
I don't know, how about knowing that I don't have to have huge boobs, a huge ass, a tiny waist (and possibly have a rubber spine to show off all the features), wear skimpy clothes, and look like I'm in heat to be empowered.
There are quite a few females protagonists that go against that grain, but it's ridiculous when you run into someone who truly believes that particular archetype is the embodiment of an empowered woman.
That is what I would call the Barbie isn't sexy response. I agree. A real person who looks like that would look utterly ridiculous. Not attractive at all.
But that's not what I meant. What happens when you show up to the gaming table with a picture of a female character with normal proportions wearing practical clothing that covers well, darn near everything, but you still get that oh, she's perpetuating the stereotypes response because she's still attractive. Had it happen. Actually lost track of how many times. Because according to the people that I was gaming with that image fits under their definition of sex idol. I would never make a character with big boobs. I have big boobs and the extra curvature in my spine to go with them. One of these days I'll save up enough for breast reduction surgery, but I digress.
I think I'm looking at this from the opposite side because I more often run into those who think that any female who is the least bit attractive is somehow less empowered. I can't even think of when I met anyone who would consider that Barbie type to be the archetype of the empowered woman. Maybe it's because I live in a college town. I don't know. I'd just really like it if people would get off my case about wanting to play someone who has the body type I wish I had, in this case slender and athletic. That's the type I wish I could be. On the other hand the type I'm more attracted to would be more curvy. I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier. Seoni on the other hand doesn't appeal at all from either perspective.
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Speaking of female proficiency in science, my girlfriend just
.
I can think of no better argument for female worship.
omg, just had to edit it for the sake of how much you wrote!
But seriously, have you read Picnic on Paradise by Joanna Russ? You will fall in love with that junk :)
EDIT: For the sake of grammar, whatever!
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Joining the consensus Umbral Reaver, don't sweat the way the thread went. It wasn't anything you said so much as the usual internet chaos theory/meandering conversation thing.
You did pretty much sum up exactly what's so frustrating about being stuck between two things that are so often forced to be at cross purposes when they don't have to be that way if neither is taken to an unhealthy extreme.
I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier.
You are well-informed and have opinions which are quantifiably correct.
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Kind of tempted to pull out older RPG material to see just how things stack up compared to PF, as far as varied portrayals of female characters.
Forgotten Realms may have had some reasonably dressed female warrior types, but honestly, I don't remember them being as common as they seem to be today. Could be remembering wrong.
Dark Sun may be an odd duck. I don't think there's going to be any consensus over the various pieces of artwork of Neeva for example(in pieces like "Dominator" and "Wings"). That particular mascot falls squarely into chainmail bikini territory, but then so do a lot of the guys. That and she's pretty damn built. Then again that might be seen as something to fetishize(and a lot of Brom's art does have that air about it) and now I might be overthinking it, I don't know. Now I'm second-guessing myself on how I'm "supposed" to view that art. She always struck me as "cool" and "badass" more than anything else in the past.
Have a feeling Planescape was probably the strongest in that area out of anything TSR put out. Maybe it's on equal standing with PF in that regard, or possibly even better, but I can't really view that material with an unbiased eye.
That is what I would call the Barbie isn't sexy response. I agree. A real person who looks like that would look utterly ridiculous. Not attractive at all.
But that's not what I meant. What happens when you show up to the gaming table with a picture of a female character with normal proportions wearing practical clothing that covers well, darn near everything, but you still get that oh, she's perpetuating the stereotypes response because she's still attractive. Had it happen. Actually lost track of how many times. Because according to the people that I was gaming with that image fits under their definition of sex idol. I would never make a character with big boobs. I have big boobs and the extra curvature in my spine to go with them. One of these days I'll save up enough for breast reduction surgery, but I digress.
I think I'm looking at this from the opposite side because I more often run into those who think that any female who is the least bit attractive is somehow less empowered. I can't even think of when I met anyone who would consider that Barbie type to be the archetype of the empowered woman. Maybe it's because I live in a college town. I don't know. I'd just really like it if people would get off my case about wanting to play someone who has the body type I wish I had, in this case slender and athletic. That's the type I wish I could be. On the other hand the type I'm more attracted to would be more curvy. I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier. Seoni on the other hand doesn't appeal at all from either perspective.
That's the other extreme end where a woman can't even be interested in a man without apparently being seen as a slut. What you do is ask if all men that are even slightly attractive are man whores. You could also ask why they hold the double standard that only men should have sex (if that's what they're getting at) and if they're only having sex with other guys since all women should apparently be virgins. I don't know why extreme opinions pop up so much from both men and women.
Too be honest though, I don't actually run into the extremes a lot aside from the initial reaction, "OMG girls can have sex without being a slut!?!?" responding with "Women are people too, get over it." It really has to do with the maturity of the people and the amount of social interaction they actually manage to get...
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I'm talking about why the 4th Edition PHB cover was particularly annoying, and why the most annoying similar Paizo art from the same time period was worthy of a little exasperation, maybe, but makes more sense from the business perspective of Paizo.
I don't know where your "except" comes in. I'm explaining how much context has to do with whether a piece of art annoys me, not trying to start something. Are you?
Actually, yes I am trying to start something.
But, my point was that Paizo, if anything, has made a great deal of effort to include a wide variety of portrayals of female characters - from the "stripperiffic (Alahazra) to the very realistic/practical (Reiko) with a variety of stops in between (Seelah). From the "marketing" perspective, should they not have all been "fanservice" art?
Actually, they all look like wannabe anime characters to me, but I just can't stand WAR's work, to be honest. He seems like a cool enough fellow, but his style isn't my cup of tea by a long shot.
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Actually, yes I am trying to start something.I most manifestly am not. I have addressed all this previously, and will cordially leave this part of the conversation as is.
I'm totally hearing Michael Jackson music now...
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That's the other extreme end where a woman can't even be interested in a man without apparently being seen as a slut. What you do is ask if all men that are even slightly attractive are man whores. You could also ask why they hold the double standard that only men should have sex (if that's what they're getting at) and if they're only having sex with other guys since all women should apparently be virgins. I don't know why extreme...That is what I would call the Barbie isn't sexy response. I agree. A real person who looks like that would look utterly ridiculous. Not attractive at all.
But that's not what I meant. What happens when you show up to the gaming table with a picture of a female character with normal proportions wearing practical clothing that covers well, darn near everything, but you still get that oh, she's perpetuating the stereotypes response because she's still attractive. Had it happen. Actually lost track of how many times. Because according to the people that I was gaming with that image fits under their definition of sex idol. I would never make a character with big boobs. I have big boobs and the extra curvature in my spine to go with them. One of these days I'll save up enough for breast reduction surgery, but I digress.
I think I'm looking at this from the opposite side because I more often run into those who think that any female who is the least bit attractive is somehow less empowered. I can't even think of when I met anyone who would consider that Barbie type to be the archetype of the empowered woman. Maybe it's because I live in a college town. I don't know. I'd just really like it if people would get off my case about wanting to play someone who has the body type I wish I had, in this case slender and athletic. That's the type I wish I could be. On the other hand the type I'm more attracted to would be more curvy. I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier. Seoni on the other hand doesn't appeal at all from either perspective.
As a man whore, I don't know what to say here.
And, where the hell do you people find these douchebags anyway? Maybe I'm just blessed to live in a completely different universe than y'all, but I don't see a lot of what y'all describe anywhere in my day to day life.
There are at least some in conservative Virginia. They're easier to find if you meet friends of friends who spend more time watching anime and playing video games alone than actual social interaction... Not saying that watching anime and playing video games is bad (I do that too) but not getting actual social interaction probably prevents them from realizing that there is more of a gradient between the shy virgin and the hyper slut. Just my theory...
Gathering from what you told us about your social life, you probably wouldn't run into many of them.
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Nope. Most of my friends are kind of geeky in a hipster-ish way, but most of them wouldn't pass up a party or a night of clubbing to play Skyrim. I think I know two people with a WoW account that actually gets use. Not many of my friends could name two anime movies. I think one or two may have a comic book lying around someplace. I think the geekiest thing any of my friends do regularly is play RPGs on occasion and post on Reddit a lot. *shrug*
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I, for one, feel privileged that Houstonderek can take time out of his happenin' life to address us dorks. ;)
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See, I read 'hipster-ish' geekery, I picture guys with long hair and goatees wearing ironic 'Arneson' trucker caps with a t-shirts bearing the cover of the BECMI box sets, appropriately pre-faded to look authentic to the original release and/or self-silkscreening, wearing Military Issue Contraceptive Glasses, and talking about the original Chainmail figurine game while drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon and talking about how Retreaux-clones are for posers who never got the 'scene'. Also smoking generic cigarettes and/or being exceedingly vocal about being non-smokers and/or using electric cigarettes so they can 'smoke' at the table.
It's a rather amusing mental image.
There was a hilarious trailer for a movie about a DM being undermined by a hipster geek that someone posted about a year ago. I wonder if I can find it.
EDIT: Here
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See, I read 'hipster-ish' geekery, I picture guys with long hair and goatees wearing ironic 'Arneson' trucker caps with a t-shirts bearing the cover of the BECMI box sets, appropriately pre-faded to look authentic to the original release and/or self-silkscreening, wearing Military Issue Contraceptive Glasses, and talking about the original Chainmail figurine game while drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon and talking about how Retreaux-clones are for posers who never got the 'scene'. Also smoking generic cigarettes and/or being exceedingly vocal about being non-smokers and/or using electric cigarettes so they can 'smoke' at the table.
It's a rather amusing mental image.
Ok, so among my friends we have elements of all of that. I was actually choking down Pall Malls and PBR Tall Boys last night, and I definitely have a strong "if you didn't play 1e in the early '80s, you just don't KNOW, man!" side :-)
And, yah, I was smoking an e-cig at OwlCon so I wouldn't have to leave the table while GMing.
You can stop having your spy follow me any time now :-)
Yeah. Goblins are cool.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Nope. I've been worried. I am seriously in a position where I cannot trust my own mind. My upbringing and surrounding influences have screwed me in the head that badly. I don't open up like this often and usually I fear I have screwed up my attempt to get anything meaningful. The dark side of feminism and cultural norms loom over me like stormclouds and I've been struck with lightning more times than I'd like.Did I step over some unspoken line? This thread diverged significantly after my last post without a single hint that I'd even made it.Which post? I thought I responded to you.
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring your post. I got a combination of sick and busy and kind of fell off this thread for a couple days.
I bet you have some kinds of experiences in common with both me and Mrs. Bell with the conservative religious upbringing. I have friends who have struggled down that path so I am picking up what you're laying down even though I can't completely understand your experiences. I was just trying to figure out how to say that although I haven't lived through it I understand and empathize when I saw what lynora wrote that said it better than I could have in 500 words:
Being a woman who is attracted to other women means you can't win for losing when this kind of stuff is discussed. The guilt can really get to you in subtle ways. And the double standards are enough to make me want to scream.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Also, on feminism and the pulp influence on our hobby, from wikipedia:
(Robert E.) Howard had feminist views despite his era and location which he espoused in both personal and professional life. Howard wrote to his friends and associates defending the achievements and capabilities of women.[159][160] Strong female characters in Howard's works of fiction include the protofeminist Dark Agnes de Chastillon (first appearing in "Sword Woman", circa 1932-34); the early modern pirate Helen Tavrel ("The Isle of Pirates' Doom", 1928), two pirates and Conan supporting characters, Bêlit ("Queen of the Black Coast", 1934) and Valeria of the Red Brotherhood ("Red Nails", 1936); as well as the Ukrainian mercenary Red Sonya of Rogatino ("The Shadow of the Vulture", 1934).[161][Not bad for the 30s. I can't speak for the accuracy of the thesis in that paragraph, except having read them I was in the weird position of explaining to my girlfriend that Conan was "not as misogynist as the cover art makes it appear."
Consider that the sexual revolution of the 60's had not yet occurred. Cheesecake as we know it now just didn't exist at that time. In a sense, REH's female characters who could rock a skimpy outfit and f__k whoever they wanted were about 30 years ahead of their time.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier.
Threadjack (as if this thread could get any more jacked). Merisiel is way hotter. I never got what people see in Imrijka from the purely physical attractiveness standpoint. Is it racism if I don't like tusks and forearms like tree trunks?
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I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier.Threadjack (as if this thread could get any more jacked). Merisiel is way hotter. I never got what people see in Imrijka from the purely physical attractiveness standpoint. Is it racism if I don't like tusks and forearms like tree trunks?
Nah, that's not racism. you like what you like. For me, Imrijka is the sort of curvy, confident female that I find attractive. If Merisiel is more the type that gets your motor running, there's nothing wrong with that. People like different things. It's all good. :)
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Threadjack (as if this thread could get any more jacked). Merisiel is way hotter. I never got what people see in Imrijka from the purely physical attractiveness standpoint. Is it racism if I don't like tusks and forearms like tree trunks?
Sorry battle, Merisiel is nice but just not curvy enough for me. Poor girl could stand to eat a bit more, you know?
If I had to pick, Feiya would be my girl.
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Forgotten Realms may have had some reasonably dressed female warrior types, but honestly, I don't remember them being as common as they seem to be today. Could be remembering wrong.
Dark Sun may be an odd duck. I don't think there's going to be any consensus over the various pieces of artwork of Neeva for example(in pieces like "Dominator" and "Wings"). That particular mascot falls squarely into chainmail bikini territory, but then so do a lot of the guys. That and she's pretty damn built. Then again that might be seen as something to fetishize(and a lot of Brom's art does have that air about it) and now I might be overthinking it, I don't know. Now I'm second-guessing myself on how I'm "supposed" to view that art. She always struck me as "cool" and "badass" more than anything else in the past.
Have a feeling Planescape was probably the strongest in that area out of anything TSR put out. Maybe it's on equal standing with PF in that regard, or possibly even better, but I can't really view that material with an unbiased eye.
The FR art that I recall was for the most part 80s vintage fanservice thinly-disguised as girl-power ("but the Seven Sisters are all like 20th level!"). I mean if you saw Elminster with a female he'd had her, no ifs ands or buts; she was there to prove that Elminster was so awesome he could even shag the Simbul. But FR was always so Mary Sueish that I would shocked not to also find female objectification.
Free-associating on the subject of Neeva, I come up only with "scary" and "roid monster."
diTerlizzi's Planescape stuff was IMO the best D&D art ever. Some of it is highly sexualized: the tiefling, for instance. The Clueless gets bonus points for being sexualized and also vulnerable (vulnerability is the defining theme, even). But much of it is attractive, sexy even, without being sexualized: this female or the cat lord, for instance. The aasimar has the impossible waist and thighs, but you don't even notice them, because the work draws your eye to the aasimar's face and her awesome sword hilt.
OK. All caught up on this thread.
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Threadjack (as if this thread could get any more jacked). Merisiel is way hotter. I never got what people see in Imrijka from the purely physical attractiveness standpoint. Is it racism if I don't like tusks and forearms like tree trunks?
Sorry battle, Merisiel is nice but just not curvy enough for me. Poor girl could stand to eat a bit more, you know?
If I had to pick, Feiya would be my girl.
:< Some people (including me) just have a hard time gaining weight. I do eat, but I have a fast metabolism. Do you know how hard it is growing up feeling like an outcast because everyone calls you skinny? Sometimes I would get called a black hole because everyone is all surprised and they made this theory that I have a black hole instead of a stomach. When I drew girls, people would ask if they were girls because they didn't have visible overbearing boobs. It got so bad that at some point I began drawing everyone with big boobs just so that people could tell when I'm drawing a girl. It took me a while to be confident with my looks (and just make people deal with realistic boob sizes). Sorry thread rant, but it just hits so close to home when comments like "she's anorexic or bulimic" or "she needs to eat more" come up because a girl is slim and not voluptuous...
See, I read 'hipster-ish' geekery, I picture guys with long hair and goatees wearing ironic 'Arneson' trucker caps with a t-shirts bearing the cover of the BECMI box sets, appropriately pre-faded to look authentic to the original release and/or self-silkscreening, wearing Military Issue Contraceptive Glasses, and talking about the original Chainmail figurine game while drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon and talking about how Retreaux-clones are for posers who never got the 'scene'. Also smoking generic cigarettes and/or being exceedingly vocal about being non-smokers and/or using electric cigarettes so they can 'smoke' at the table.
It's a rather amusing mental image.
Ok, so among my friends we have elements of all of that. I was actually choking down Pall Malls and PBR Tall Boys last night, and I definitely have a strong "if you didn't play 1e in the early '80s, you just don't KNOW, man!" side :-)
And, yah, I was smoking an e-cig at OwlCon so I wouldn't have to leave the table while GMing.
You can stop having your spy follow me any time now :-)
Wait, seriously? Damnit, when did I gain a level in oracle?
Now I have to redo my character sheet.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Threadjack (as if this thread could get any more jacked). Merisiel is way hotter. I never got what people see in Imrijka from the purely physical attractiveness standpoint. Is it racism if I don't like tusks and forearms like tree trunks?
Sorry battle, Merisiel is nice but just not curvy enough for me. Poor girl could stand to eat a bit more, you know?
If I had to pick, Feiya would be my girl.
:< Some people (including me) just have a hard time gaining weight. I do eat, but I have a fast metabolism. Do you know how hard it is growing up feeling like an outcast because everyone calls you skinny? Sometimes I would get called a black hole because everyone is all surprised and they made this theory that I have a black hole instead of a stomach. When I drew girls, people would ask if they were girls because they didn't have visible overbearing boobs. It got so bad that at some point I began drawing everyone with big boobs just so that people could tell when I'm drawing a girl. It took me a while to be confident with my looks (and just make people deal with realistic boob sizes). Sorry thread rant, but it just hits so close to home when comments like "she's anorexic or bulimic" or "she needs to eat more" come up because a girl is slim and not voluptuous...
Not to trivialize by any means, especially given how much I've had similar discussions regarding Pandaren on MMO-Champion, but I don't think the intent was body-shaming - there's nothing wrong with Merisiel as a character or concept, to my eyes and likely those of many others. She does come across as very, well...elfin. She looks more fragile than she actually is. Some people find that intensely appealing, if not outright erotic! Others find it nice, and all, but not looking viable for enduring a good vigorous romp in the proverbial hay
And in what has to be the most awkward irony of the night, I think the fact that you felt you had to exaggerate the busts on your ladies because people were too obtuse to infer gender from any other qualities is a bulls-eye right on the title of the thread. I can't explain it any better than that right now, but after seeing lots of 'lol too fat' posts on the aforementioned topic, this just seems like the bizarro counterpoint.
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Not to trivialize by any means, especially given how much I've had similar discussions regarding Pandaren on MMO-Champion, but I don't think the intent was body-shaming - there's nothing wrong with Merisiel as a character or concept, to my eyes and likely those of many others. She does come across as very, well...elfin. She looks more fragile than she actually is. Some people find that intensely appealing, if not outright erotic! Others find it nice, and all, but not looking viable for enduring a good vigorous romp in the proverbial hay
I know, I know. :p I was going on a side rant, people are entitled to their opinion. On the plus side, people are more willing to give me food. ^^
And in what has to be the most awkward irony of the night, I think the fact that you felt you had to exaggerate the busts on your ladies because people were too obtuse to infer gender from any other qualities is a bulls-eye right on the title of the thread. I can't explain it any better than that right now, but after seeing lots of 'lol too fat' posts on the aforementioned topic, this just seems like the bizarro counterpoint.
I was young and impressionable. I did it partly out of spite and jealousy. What made it really ironic, is that even then I would get the occasional, "Her boobs aren't big enough" or "Her boobs aren't really that big". >_> But then again, I've moved around a lot, I've dealt with people of different demographics, different levels of maturity, and different amount of social experience. This period was when dealing with people that watched too much anime.
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Is there any body type that doesn't get hate?
Skinny = Go eat a sandwich.
Busty = Oversexed.
Curvy = Fat.
:|
This period was when dealing with people that watched too much anime.Honestly, in several anime series you NEED to see the body in order to tell the gender of the character. It isn't the long hair, but that the face is also drawn very androgynous on many male heroes.
I'd also note that many series thrive on the cultural predilection towards bishonen beauty ideals and as such enjoy the combination of Sweet Polly Oliver and Dude looks like a Lady.
But then, some series of specific genre tend to go completely in the opposite direction, tending to emphasize not only curves, but the greatest extremes of same.
Mind, I like them. So does the spouse. We're happy pervs like that.
:D
Is there any body type that doesn't get hate?
Skinny = Go eat a sandwich.
Busty = Oversexed.
Curvy = Fat.:|
Why would busty be oversexed?
Wait, why would oversexed be a bad thing?...oh, right, double-standards.
Some of us don't see it that way.
Also, Skinny and Sandwich corollaries are a matter of degrees - I've seen the phrase 'bag of antlers' to describe skinny unto horror.
For me, my leeriness of skinny girls is due to being a not-small person, and having actually had to worry about causing physical harm during bedroom antics. Then again, I would be lying if I claimed I didn't enjoy more cushion for the pushin'.
Nah, that's not racism. you like what you like. For me, Imrijka is the sort of curvy, confident female that I find attractive. If Merisiel is more the type that gets your motor running, there's nothing wrong with that. People like different things. It's all good. :)I might want to be Merisiel, but Imrijka looks a lot sexier.Threadjack (as if this thread could get any more jacked). Merisiel is way hotter. I never got what people see in Imrijka from the purely physical attractiveness standpoint. Is it racism if I don't like tusks and forearms like tree trunks?
I'm alllllll for Imrijka, myself. I love Alhazara's outfit, but she's a *bit* too skinny for me.
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Is there any body type that doesn't get hate?
Skinny = Go eat a sandwich.
Busty = Oversexed.
Curvy = Fat.:|
I love them all. Skinny, thick, well endowed, flat as a board and everything in between.
My only problem in the arena is fashion mags making Kate Moss the norm. They should have a wide array of different body types represented as sexy and desirable, body dysmorphia among women is one thing that really gets to me. I have no idea how much time I've had to spend in my life assuring women who didn't fit the "norm" that they were beautiful, and it pisses me off that magazines like Cosmo make a woman who's a freaking size eight feel like they're fat. And eight. Seriously?
Do people forget Marilyn Monroe was HOT, and a size SIXTEEN???
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Weeeelll....a size 16 NOW is very different than a size 16 then, I think. I've been working on losing weight for over a year now, and I'm juuuust getting to the point where I could consider a size 16 jean (my new 18s are almost too loose...yay!). As excited as I am to be nearing the point I could wear a size I haven't worn since high school, I have no illusions I'm approaching Marilyn Monroe's size. :)
The sentiment in general, however, is appreciated, I think. :)