Well as you may or may not know, Paizo recently made catfolk canon when it comes to Golarion...
Really? I must have missed that. Reference, please.
(Unless you mean Kitsune, which are fox people. In that case I know exactly what you're talking about.)
Why? Because catgirls tend to be problematic and shallow, given that all the lore Paizo has given us for catfolk is "they're cats, they're people, look like cat, talk like people"
You should totally read the Chanur books by C.J.Cherryh before you even believe that...
Clearly your a racist . . . I smell werewolf or perhaps a cowardly ratling;)
Well depending on how much work you want to devote to the fluff or force the PC to come up with, I have always felt there are two ways to go with felines.
"Big Cat"
This is more complex. In this model each clan or racial variant is modeled after a species of big cat. The noble warriors of the lion clan, tiger clan wise and sirene, bobcat tricksters, sabre toothed barbaric tribes and so on.
"House Cat"
This is a far more simple model. Basically catfolk are very diverse in how they look and outlook. Pic a few cat like traits and they can plop in anywhere you want.
Yeah sounds pretty 'normal' if you ask me. Just another flavor of human for the player probably -- just like the elves, dwarves and short humans already in the game.
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Well I'm looking over the character sheet now, first thing I notice is the name "Miyushi T'shar" and I cringe... then I notice she's from Valashmai jungle so it makes sense in context.
She's a sorceress who worships Desna, left tribe out of wanderlust and now adventures to increase personal power, to experience new things, and to slay the stuff of nightmares on Desna's behalf.
Chaotic Good, when asked which three adjectives fit her best the player said "compassionate, reckless, inquisitive."
I'm pretty close to allowing this.
Here is how I would look at it, substitute Human for Catfolk then ask would I allow it in my game, if yes, then allow it.
Most people see Catfolk and immediately think furry or anime and lift the banhammer against it.
A good GM can look past a personal dislike of something to make way for a player to have some fun at the game table.
None taken.
I have not had much experience with Paizo catfolk. My point was there are typically two ways to deal with them. The one you pointed out. You seemed concerned that they were kind of a blank slate. If I gave you the impression that I did not intend them to be humanoid I must have been unclear.
I feel the same way about halflings.
Also, Oracles don't need specific deities. They kinda worship them all. Just sayin'.
Like others have said, it's ultimately up to you what to allow. However, if the race isn't specifically impossible in your campaign, I don't see a real reason to tell her no. It could easily be translated into "You don't think I'm a competent enough roleplayer to make an interesting character concept." I personally prefer the more wild, big cat type catfolk over the house catfolk that the Bestiary 3 seems to portray and that is how I'm going to use catfolk in my campaign; mostly as steppe wanderers.
If you're looking for ways to steer her into making an interesting character, show her the Elder Scrolls games, or have her pick up the Pathfinder Tales novel that was mentioned earlier. I completely agree with the sentiments that a character defined only by his or her race is borning; playing up stereotypes like "she licks herself clean" or "she orders milk at the bar" or "she makes horrible cat puns all the time" will get boring fast.
Off-topic, am I the only person who hates the catfolk art? I'm not digging the Chesire Cat color scheme and off-proportioned feet personally.
Well as you may or may not know, Paizo recently made catfolk canon when it comes to Golarion...Really? I must have missed that. Reference, please.
(Unless you mean Kitsune, which are fox people. In that case I know exactly what you're talking about.)
They're in Bestiary 3, but it doesn't actually mention anything about using them in the Golarion setting. Haven't seen them anywhere else yet.
I have had a couple players - both female - over the years, asking to play catfolk, one in a 3.5 and the other in a 2nd Ed game. I found it was not the characters who were rather shallow and flighty, but the players who were both flakey and a bit self-absorbed. They were nice enough people, but I think the notion of a cat person attracts a certain kind of player of the variety that does not have a lot of stick-to-itiveness. Or much concentration.
In my experience, anyway.
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I know that Catfolk are specifically mentioned in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer to be located in the Valashmai jungle and I know a lot of people are speculating that they could exist in the Mwangi Expanse. Which in all reality works in my opinion. If people would stop looking at them as anime or furry and more like the idea behind the Black Panther comics they might be accepted a little better.
I found it was not the characters who were rather shallow and flighty, but the players who were both flakey and a bit self-absorbed. They were nice enough people, but I think the notion of a cat person attracts a certain kind of player of the variety that does not have a lot of stick-to-itiveness. Or much concentration.
I'm just glad you pointed out that they were both female; up until that point I thought you were a chauvinist or something...
Isn't Black Panther human? He was years go.
I found this write up pretty good it might be 3.5 as opposed to PF but this separated them from the borderline furry or thundercat problem which I think you were worried about.
http://kolidascope.wikia.com/wiki/Catfolk
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Off-topic, am I the only person who hates the catfolk art? I'm not digging the Chesire Cat color scheme and off-proportioned feet personally.
I like it. IMO it managed to look cool and avoid being either a lazy "anime" catgirl(hey, a human with cat ears and a tail) or "furry". Seemed to err more towards Thundercats or Navi territory.
I found it was not the characters who were rather shallow and flighty, but the players who were both flakey and a bit self-absorbed. They were nice enough people, but I think the notion of a cat person attracts a certain kind of player of the variety that does not have a lot of stick-to-itiveness. Or much concentration.I'm just glad you pointed out that they were both female; up until that point I thought you were a chauvinist or something...Girl gamers who play catfolk are a known problem player archetype. Just like people with painted finger nails who insist on playing tieflings/dhampirs/necromancers/having an evil alignment. Just like halfling who pickpocket their own party nonstop.
Sorry, political correctness is a bad joke.
I'm just glad you didn't mention jocks playing dwarves; that never happens.
As long as they have tails its cool with me.
One of my kids loves playing Catfolk, I actually let him play a Tibbit, now I'm sure he's going to want to play a catfolk. The Advanced Race Guide should probably have more info when it comes out!
You should set a condition for allowing the character.
Something like a strange fascination with the idea of raising horses... or something else very non-anime-catgirlish
Another trick is to feign enthusiasm, and get her to talk about her character's childhood, family life, how she became a sorcerer and so on. This will spur some real, genuine personality and get a mindset going. Offer ideas as she goes (with ulterior motive of cliche-slaying close at hand), and get her to write it up. With any luck, you'll end up with some funky culture for her people... like maybe some mesh of voodoo and French revolution kind of culture O_o
Catfolk Wizard with a mouse familiar....
Catfolk who contracts lycanthropy from a Wererat....
Catfolk Bard...Wait I played one of those in Everquest, Kakophonyx Katerwaul...
Catfolk Shadowdancer
Catfolk Monk
Catfolk Druid, Ranger or Cavalier riding a Dire Lion...or Celestial Lion.
...like maybe some mesh of voodoo and French revolution kind of culture O_o
Add a Bayou and you'll have New Orleans.
It sounds like you trust your player. I think if you voice some concerns you have with her and ask for her help to make sure there's depth to what you might fear could end up being a shallow concept; she'd probably be happy to help you. After all, adding more dimensions to her backstory and hooks means something for you to work with as well as more angles for her to RP.
She sounds like she's a lot less annoying than a hundred other core rules stereotypes (the overbearing paladin, the back-stabbing party-robbing rogue, the limelight-loving bard, etc.).
Go for it.
I'm tempted to try a furry campaign with Tengu, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Nagaji, Grippli, and Vanara in it. Just to see what my players come up with.
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Understand this: I have no trouble seeing the catfolk as something other than anime or furry, I also know that a lot of people refuse to see them as anything but and roleplay accordingly.
And one almost has to ask, just what is it you THINK you mean when you say "furry"... Seems you're not the only one who speaks of what he/she does not know or understand--
IMO it managed to look cool and avoid being either a lazy "anime" catgirl(hey, a human with cat ears and a tail) or "furry". Seemed to err more towards Thundercats or Navi territory.
Oddly enough most ACTUAL Furry Fans consider 'Thundercats' and the Navi as great 'Furry' archetypes, and their images as excellent 'Furry' art. I rather like the art in Bestiary 3 for the catfolk-- got news for you though-- it's "furry" to the core.
And then there's this comment.
As long as you check beforehand that the player isn't planning on bringing her sexual fetish to the game it should be okay.
Sure, the "nobre catfork" animu stereotype is annoying but not really more so than a well-played elf.
By visuals along, catfolk aren't that bad. Khajiit from The Elder Scrolls. I like the Falar from Spacemaster: Privateers too. I wouldn't even have a problem with someone playing a Thundercat.
As long as it's not purely played to sexualize the game (which honestly is done just as easily with a transgendered character as a cat character) and cartoon cat, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Sounds like none of you people know a goddamn thing about Furry Fandom except bad stereotypes and CSI episodes. I wasn't really offended until Trikk's comment, now I am. Presuming that the reason someone wants to play a catfolk because she has a sexual fetish? Trikk-- if you know the player, and know she's got fetishes, that might be one thing-- otherwise, WTF? Why is the first thing you can come up with is the idea that the player probably has a sex-fetish that she wants to inflict on the game? Why also is that the last thing you can think of?
Most of the people who are "Furries" (as in, interested in furry stuff, part of 'Furry Fandom') are not the perverts you think we are. Most of the stuff that people in 'Furry Fandom' consider furry stuff, is G rated, boys'n'girls... some of it's PG, a little bit of it's PG-13 and R... Like all parts of Fandom, yes we have some perverts in our midst and there is artwork out there that is 'X' rated-- but it's a small piece of it. You don't get to run around calling all Christians raving right-wing religious fanatic nutjobs that want to burn everyone not of their faith at the stake... why do you think it's okay to blast an entire fandom with your sick fantasies about who/what they are-- when it's not even remotely an accurate stereotype?
BTW-- yes, I like catfolk. I've played two in 3.5 (and several cat-people in RPGs other than D&D/PF), had a lot of fun with it. Some of them were kind of "anime-ish" (then again, I play with a crowd that loves anime, so go figure on that score)-- none of them were played so as to disrupt the party or 'sexualize' the game, at least not in a way that anyone was uncomfortable with.
Also-- yes, I'm part of furry fandom. And I'm straight. Between relationships but usually monogamous when I'm in one. Not into BDSM. Not a pervert. Not into hard-core porn, not into R and X rated art. I don't do sexual things with stuffed animals or mascot suits. Matter of fact, I DON'T wear animal costumes. I'm an average example-- I don't fit your stereotype, so quit throwing it around.
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I'm tempted to try a furry campaign with Tengu, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Nagaji, Grippli, and Vanara in it. Just to see what my players come up with.
If I lived in your area, I might be seriously interested. Could be a good game, so long as you've got players who will treat it as a good roleplaying opportunity, not as a joke.
I'm tempted to try a furry campaign with Tengu, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Nagaji, Grippli, and Vanara in it. Just to see what my players come up with.If I lived in your area, I might be seriously interested. Could be a good game, so long as you've got players who will treat it as a good roleplaying opportunity, not as a joke.
Philippines?
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Philippines?I'm tempted to try a furry campaign with Tengu, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Nagaji, Grippli, and Vanara in it. Just to see what my players come up with.If I lived in your area, I might be seriously interested. Could be a good game, so long as you've got players who will treat it as a good roleplaying opportunity, not as a joke.
Nope. I'm in the USA (specifically California, Greater Los Angeles area, more specifically, Orange County). Ah well... still sounds like an interesting game-- if you get it going, let the rest of us know how it goes. :)
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Sounds like none of you people know a g#*~!!n thing about Furry Fandom except bad stereotypes and CSI episodes.
Personally I thought the prominent "furry" stereotype was being overly defensive on the Internet.
In all seriousness, think you're taking separate remarks and and seeing correlations that aren't there.
Some people are operating on different meanings of "furry" here. For example, when one says the catfolk art doesn't look all that "furry", they might mean "doesn't look like a football mascot". Related is how many may see gnolls and Anubis as decidedly not "furry", while some might. The word is hardly universally quantified. And not everyone is thinking about sex.
People that aren't part of the fandom aren't necessarily speaking the same language, more or less. (nor are those within)
Off-topic, am I the only person who hates the catfolk art? I'm not digging the Chesire Cat color scheme and off-proportioned feet personally.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
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I'm not a huge fan of Catfolk, Ratfolk or any other "human with animal-head-on" folk that don't have a good connection with mythology. Animal headed races strike me as a little lazy usually.
THAT SAID: Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and Gnomes are often long or short humans with pointier or fuzzier bits if someone at the table doesn't put in a bit of effort to think through their character.
I think the idea of a catfolk, ratfolk, tengu, vanara, grippli game would be awesome (the nagaji are too humanlike for me) they could explore a lot of different archetypes and lend themselves to a great Mouseguard-esque setting. The important thing is to play up the cultural aspects and to take those totemistic aspects into the culture to give players something to riff off.
Ultimately though, I just don't like cats. I think living with a cat is like living with a pot smoking cousin. It eats your food, sleeps all day, ignores you when it feels like and sheds on your furniture. So Catfolk being living embodiment to all the behavior I find personally annoying is probably what acts as a sticking point.
If a player in my group asked to play one, I'd give them the first question I ask when they want to play an elf or a Tiefling:
"Ignoring the mechanics, what defining aspect of this race does your character need for his backstory and personality?"
If they can't answer that fundamental question then they haven't thought it through.
From what I read in bestiary, catfolk seem to give me an impression that they are friendly roaming tribal nomads... Not that I dislike them, however I think the info on the playable races from the bestiary books are bit vague and hope their societies/culture/traits/etc. be explained abit more (maybe in the advanced race book?). I like the art btw.
Speaking of ES, I remember the Khajit used to be human with animal-like characteristics (I remember one of them looked like MacDonald burger thief lol). They somehow changed it to "human with animal head and said it was sub-type or something with a book ingame.
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Sounds like none of you people know a g#*~!!n thing about Furry Fandom except bad stereotypes and CSI episodes.Personally I thought the prominent "furry" stereotype was being overly defensive on the Internet.
In all seriousness, think you're taking separate remarks and and seeing correlations that aren't there.
Some people are operating on different meanings of "furry" here. For example, when one says the catfolk art doesn't look all that "furry", they might mean "doesn't look like a football mascot". Related is how many may see gnolls and Anubis as decidedly not "furry", while some might. The word is hardly universally quantified. And not everyone is thinking about sex.
People that aren't part of the fandom aren't necessarily speaking the same language, more or less. (nor are those within)
You may be right that I'm being a little oversensitive, and if I am, my apologies. If it had just been 'Blastoguy's and your remark, I might have still asked 'just what is it you mean by "furry"?' because it does mean, quite reasonably to someone who's involved in furry fandom, that you are drawing some kind of stereotype in your mind about what is and isn't "furry"-- when you cite examples (Thundercats, Navi) that 'Furries' think ARE 'Furry' in the SAME sentence where you say "it doesn't look 'furry'".
Now, I don't mean to say that you were thinking about sex or that sort of thing, and if what you were thinking by "not furry" is not like a cartoon or football mascot-- okay, not so bad, although I wish you'd say THAT instead of saying 'not furry'-- I'd appreciate it if you left that definition up to people in that fandom, unless you know what people who are in 'furry fandom' mean by 'furry'.
Check out Trikk's post, that was quoted in the post of mine that you responded to-- the implications he made, were the ones I really felt insulted by and that I felt required the response I made. Didn't intend to tar you and Blastoguy with the same brush, so again, my apologies for that.
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Not to mention video games...
Fate/Extra (Caster)
League of Legends (Ahri, Teemo, etc)
Sonic
Crash Bandicoot
Star Fox
and on, and on, and on...So yeah you really did cross the line with that comment.