If not, what would I need to add or modify to make it Pathfinder friendly?
It is compatible.
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If not, what would I need to add or modify to make it Pathfinder friendly?
I would have to check my copy of complete arcane, but the list of skills for sure, adjust hit dice to 1d8 if it wasn't already
You should check the RPG conversion section of these boards, I am sure there are a few reasonable versions of warlocks there.
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I have done a conversion here: Warlock
It is not quite a straight conversion, but one that works really, really, really good in Pathfinder. It is balanced against the other classes and performs well.
Master Arminas
I have done a conversion here: Warlock
It is not quite a straight conversion, but one that works really, really, really good in Pathfinder. It is balanced against the other classes and performs well.
Master Arminas
Impressive!
No spell resistance? No essence and blast shape distinction so two can be applied to one eldritch blast? I would prefere to keep the invocations how they are and having no spells for the Warlock.
The d8 Hd and the d8 damage for eldritch blast look resonable.So does adding cha bonus to damage (how 4e, lol).
Looks nice. Anyone playtested it?
I ran a campaign with a warlock player using the d8 HD/EB dmg. Worked out fine. There was some debate as to whether he was underpowered, but my philosophy is that if the group is split down the middle on an issue, then it isn't broke.
Shouldn't they have been arguing whether he was broken or not, instead of underpowered?
But reading some arguments on the fighter vs. wizard, some people think that lack of options means underpower. The warlock definetly has fewer options than some other classes.
I guess a fiendish pool point could solve this, but it involves so much time.
I split the 3.5 invocations into either spells (i.e., shatter, summon swarm, dimension door, fly, baleful polymorph, etc.) or invocations (essence/blast shapes) for a specific reason, Goldomark. Raw damage is never quite as powerful in Pathfinder (or 3.5) for an arcane or even divine spellcaster as it first appears.
Consider a 6th level warlock (my warlock). He would do 4d8+6 damage with his eldritch blast, having to roll a ranged touch attack that provokes attacks of opportunity. Average damage is 24 points (48 on a critical). At that same level, fighters, barbarians, monks, rangers, and paladins have at least two attacks on a full attack, doing their weapon damage plus strength plus magic enhancement plus power attack, etc., etc. A barbarian of this level with a +1 two-handed sword is doing around 2d6+16 (23 points) per hit (46 on a critical).
So the damage is about the same: for a single attack. The fighter types can get two or three or maybe even four at the same level.
Yes, in 3.5 it was the bogey-man of the warlock, his eldritch blast and the infinite damage he can inflict. But that wasn't the real problem with the class.
The problem was all those at-will utility invocations. By making them finite use spells, it brings the warlock back in line with the rest of the Pathfinder classes. He can still do everything he could in 3.5 (heck, he can now do more than he could in 3.5) but he can't do it all day long without rest.
I have run the class in the game that I GM, and really it is less powerful than a magus, especially factoring in the ability spell-strike for that official class. Overall, it landed in that goldilocks area of not too weak, not too strong, but just right. You own mileage may well vary, but that is my experience.
Anyway, feel free to use it, and thank you for your kind comments.
Master Arminas
Ah, forgot something. I went with only one invocation at a time so that I didn't have to have shapes or blasts. Sure, it is a tad more limiting, but every invocation has a unique flavor to it, while the basic eldritch blast is more like common gruel. Bland. It will work, but the invocations are the flashy parts of the class. It also makes the person playing the warlock make a choice: does he use eldritch cone to catch as many of the mephits as he can? Or does he use inferno blast since those ice mephits are vulnerable to fire? He can't do both at the same time, which makes the character consider his selections carefully.
Note that he no longers has all that jive about crafting as part of the class, or the take 10 on UMD checks, or all that stuff. If the player wants to craft, he can still find a way--especially since this version has spells. UMD is still a class skill, but he doesn't really need the ability to take 10. It was part of the 3.5 class I never saw used and just quietly pushed out of the way.
Master Arminas
TriOmegaZero: have you taken a gander at my conversion? I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
Master Arminas
Whenever you find the time, friend. Good luck with cleaning off that hefty platter! lol
Master Arminas
That was my last year reimagining of a warlock (not a conversion): Drejk's warlock
And here you'll find SmiloDan's version.
There was also Detect Magic or Cheapy's version somewhere but I can't find it among lots of adaptations, conversions and homebrew variants. Strange, I thought I added it to favorites.
Stock Warlock is fine with an increase to d8 hit dice.
@Arminas, I'll admit that I haven't looked over your conversion in depth, but I don't care for warlocks with spells. I thought the whole point of the warlock was caster fluff but unique abilities and no need to worry about long spell lists or lots of combat casting. Why play a warlock that's just another kind of sorcerer? I do like the d8 blasts +Cha mod though. Can't fathom why you thought that the blast was the least important part of the class and combined the essence and shape invocations though. I'll admit I don't miss the crafting ability but the blast was the core of the class. Tsk. Shame on you.
Magikot: I'm not sure where you got three eldritch blasts at 20th level; I'll have to go back and look. The get one as a standard and up to five per day as a swift. That is two, five times per day. And yes, I meant to add the one (1) 7th and one (1) 8th level spell as warlock spells. I thought that was in there, but I will go back and look.
Oh mighty Bear who is KUMA (yes, I am familiar with that word, lol), the at-will invocations of the 3.5 warlock were very nice. In my opinion, however, it made the warlock both weaker and stronger than it should have been. Weaker because for the most part the invocations were not comparable spells that sorcerer, wizard, cleric, or druid of similar level would be receiving. Stronger because the warlock, unlike any other arcane class, lacked finite resources other than hit points.
I kept the eldritch blast, but I stand by my statement that being able to reliabily deal an average of 24 hit points once a round every round at 6th level is really nothing. Try giving it a look, I think you might be convinced on how it is put together.
Master Arminas
The 3.5 Warlock works just fine in Pathfinder. I just boost their HD to d8 and add their Cha bonus to their eldritch blast damage.
Oh mighty Bear who is KUMA
Master Arminas
The thing is, I really hate looking up spells. That was one of the best parts of Warlock for me, being a caster (high knowledges, spellcraft, easy mobility, not worrying about weapons/armor) without having to do homework. (Spells known/Spells memorized) I'm not saying that the blast is supposed to be the most impressive damage in the world, it's just that it's always there and can be altered (via shape/essence) to suit the situation. (Which was made significantly weaker by combining shape/essence and saying you can only choose one)
So you don't need damaging spells. The utility incantations were about as strong as they needed to be by virtue of the fact that they were 24 hours, so why use more complicated, shorter duration spells? Spells you have to memorize every day? Keep in mind that as they were formerly written - Warlocks can just recast those incantations if they got dispelled. Making them quite a bit more powerful than similar spells that you'd be lucky to be able to cast twice.
The Warlock was the caster-type who had the same abilities every moment of every day (not unlike, say, a fighter) and I really like that.
***
Having looked your class over, I will say that the capstone is interesting and that the eldritch aura is pretty cool. The spells though... I just don't get it. *shrug*
It's not that it doesn't look like a capable class, it does. Looks like it would play just fine in virtually any campaign. I just don't understand why you'd take something unique like the Warlock and do work to make it another spell-list class.
~Kuma
熊
Kuma, Shoga,
I don't know about your games, but in effect having spontaneous spell casting pretty much gives the warlock (using the same spells per day table as the bard) plenty of spells; not as many as unlimited use, but enough, especially since he has unlimited use of his eldritch blast. At 10th level, he has 5 1st level, 4 2nd level, 3 3rd level, and 1 4th level spell slot per day. If he has a 16 Charisma, that increases to 6/5/4/1. Plus his eldritch blast AND his at-will cantrips. An 18 Charisma is 6/5/4/2, whereas a 20 is 7/5/4/2, a 22 is 7/6/4/2, and a 24 is 7/6/5/2. All of those are easily attainable by 10th level.
My warlock knows 6 zero level, 5 1st level, 5 2nd level, 4 3rd level, and 2 4th level spells; taken from the following list:
0-level Spells: Arcane Mark, Bleed, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Flare, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance
1st-level Spells: Cause Fear, Charm Person, Chill Touch, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Endure Elements, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Hold Portal, Jump, Magic Aura, Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement, Sleep, Unseen Servant, Ventriloquism
2nd-level Spells: Arcane Lock, Bear’s Endurance, Blindness/Deafness, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Darkvision, Darkness, Fog Cloud, Invisibility, Scare, See Invisibility, Shatter, Spider Climb, Summon Swarm, Web
3rd-level Spells: Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Fly, Gaseous Form, Greater Magic Weapon, Major Image, Nondetection, Phantom Steed, Sleet Storm, Slow, Stinking Cloud, Suggestion, Tongues, Vampiric Touch
4th-level Spells: Animate Dead, Bestow Curse, Black Tentacles, Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Dimension Door, Enervation, Fear, Greater Invisibility, Hallucinatory Terrain, Phantasmal Killer, Shadow Conjuration, Solid Fog
Alright, let's say I go with the traditional warlock spells--those that are pretty much invocations in 3.5.
0-level: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigitation, Read Magic (went with detect poison because my warlock's are paranoid and always tests his food and drink before imbiding).
1st-level: Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Feather Fall, Obscuring Mist
2nd-level: Darkvision, Invisibility, See Invisibility, Shatter, Spider Climb
3rd-level: Dispel Magic, Fly, Sleet Storm, Slow
4th-level: Black Tentacles, Dimension Door
I've got more tricks than 3.5 Warlock, just can't do them all day long. And some of my tricks, I get earlier (black tentacles, for example). And I've got only 22 spells to keep track of on paper or in my head. Not exactly as spell-rich as a wizard or sorcerer or cleric or druid, but a good solid class that is a great deal of fun when played well.
Now, I know I won't ever manage to convince everyone who just wants the at will invocations! And that's ok. Because we all play the same game, we just play it in a different way that fits our own campaigns.
Anyway, even if you fellas don't like it, maybe you can mine it for ideas and inspiration. Take care.
Master Arminas
My version is currently being playtested. We started at 5th or 6th level and are up to 8th. The player is kind of rules light, so she really likes the limited options and lack of bookkeeping. It seems to be pretty balanced. She originally started out partnering with an inquisitor and half-ogre barbarian/fighter/warhulk, and after a nigh TPK, is now partnered with a tengu oracle of the winds and a tiefling ranger/rogue/shadowdancer.
Her combat effectiveness is on par with an archer rogue. She currently has the foul dreams, tripping blast, devil's sight unseen, baleful utterance, eldritch glaive, fell flight, wall unseen, and eldritch barrier invocations. Her dark secrets are deceive item, empower eldritch blast, hex (touch of healing), and potent blast.
So she is primarily a ranged striker, but is also extremely stealthy, and has some good utility and healing trump cards.
And if I haven't said so before, Smilodan, that is a great conversion you made. It's like that old song . . . "and ye take the high road, and I'll take the low road, and I'll be in Scotland, before ye."
lol
Master Arminas
And if I haven't said so before, Smilodan, that is a great conversion you made. It's like that old song . . . "and ye take the high road, and I'll take the low road, and I'll be in Scotland, before ye."
lol
Master Arminas
Yeah, I like your class a lot too. I just don't think it's warlocky enough because of its spells per day stuff. It's still a solid class and looks like a lot of fun.
I think the warlock was designed to be mechanically easy. 1 standard, 1 move, occasionally 1 swift action per round. No need to worry about iterative attacks, two-weapon fighting or flurry of blows, etc. etc. It hits pretty consistently, and does decent (but not the most) damage. At 11th level, when you can get Improved Critical on your eldritch blast, you are doing your level in d6s pretty much 9% of the time, and that's not bad. Add to that some great at will 24 hour buffs and the occasional at will utility spell-like ability, and you have a solid character.
If not, what would I need to add or modify to make it Pathfinder friendly?
I played one and it converts pretty nicely. We changed the skills and HD to Pathfinder.
Other than that the only change we made was that iterative EB's were allowed if using an UNMODIFIED blast. The d6 damage, even with iterative attacks, was nowhere near overpowered.
Using a Warlock in Pathfinder you will be in the middle of the pack as far as damage but you will have quite a few great utility options. UMD skill turns out to be really handy. They are a bit on the fragile side though.
They can get very repetitive though, I fell into a
"use invocation-eldritch blast" rut in combat for a while.
I think adding additional invocations known allows the warlock to choose some additional eldritch essences and eldritch shapes, and thus adding additional options in combat for the warlock.
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I always felt that the warlock was what the sorcerer should have been. I had the idea to rewrite the PF sorcerer bloodlines into the warlock chassis but I simply don't have the time to pull off that kind of project right now.
I was just going to go with Smilodon's warlock but Master Arminas' version has me thinking. One of the things that I liked about the 4E warlock was the pacts that allowed for variation between warlocks. I could see keeping the invocations but allowing an extremely limited spell list based on which pact the warlock chooses. Another idea would be to have generic utility invocations and pact specific invocations.
So many ideas and so little time.
Possible pacts:
Celestial
Dark Tapestry
Elemental
Fiend
Fey
Shadow
SM