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I've seen episode 1 and 2. They were fun to watch. Not as good as fringe yet though.
I know things like warrants, trials, rule of law, rights and obligations are out of fashion, but seriously, indefinite detention of a citizen without a trial? Doctor "aided" interrogations? Comic book guy and Madsen had better figure out they are working for a lunatic vigilante group and not a proper branch of the government soon...
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I enjoyed the first two episodes, but would have preferred that it was an actual 2 hour pilot, rather than the first 2 episodes back to back. I also wasn't fond of the narrative structure of the beginning of the pilot. Too much backstory up front, rather than BAM, starting with the action of the current day crime and discovering that it was an Alcatraz inmate involved. The backstory of Alcatraz's "real history" and the cop's partner dying could have been better done more in the middle of the pilot.
I completely agree that other things are not by the book - interrogations, excessive use of force, etc. and that the original Alcatraz seems to have done a LOT that wasn't on the up and up - possibly related to the mystery of what happened there even.
I see a lot of potential over the course of the show to turn assumptions on their heads, and have the main characters question what side they're one, and who the real bad guys are. I don't think it's as simple as - "prisoners gone, recapture them, everyone's happy." (not a surprise considering the show's pedigree.)
The first two episodes were entertaining to watch, but after the fact I have a couple problems with the show:
1. If you knew the prisoners were coming back, why make the prison a park/museum with tours and boat rides? It'd be a helluva lot easier to keep all the cells locked up so the prisoners reappearing are still jailed, and without means of escaping into the general population to kill again. With a body count of at least ten as a result, including two cops plus a third retired one, this should be a no-brainer. I realize there wouldn't be show if it was done like this, but it's an extremely glaring plot hole nonetheless.
2. The psychologist introduced at the very end for Cobbs by the Warden. I can buy a time warp or alien abduction story, but this was so ludicrously introduced as a reason for why Cobbs shot whatshername that I can't help but roll my eyes.
3. Comicbookguy. An overintelligent underachiever who's knowledgable only on the *cover story* for what actually happened. Not only that, but anything useful he does know is superceded by the resources of "the batcave".
4. Hauser is about 15 years too old for the part being played here. If you were a guard 50 years ago, you'd have to be a minimum of 70, now - and more likely 75+ (like was shown with Alan Sylvane). I find it skeptical that he's supposed to be running around climbing multi-storey flights of stairs and "doing battle" with extremely dangerous men in the prime of their physical condition.
I'll stop now, since at the end of the day I did actually enjoy the show.
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** spoiler omitted **
Leaving the weird situation of whether or not they escaped or are even the same people / whether they have time left to serve aside.
The two 63s we've seen so far have done things like shoot police officers and sniper attacks that should generate a massive amount of attention and scrutiny - we haven't seen evidence of a coverup or even acknowledgment that something screwy is going on - Madsen's former colleagues remark to her about 'oh how's the transfer going' instead of - what the hell happened to the cop killer you arrested etc..
Hell, the genius with the criminology phd should at least be remarking on it.
It's weird - and right now seems to be based on the government (G-men, suits, spooks) disappearing people and that being some how normal and accepted. The use of some kind of gas / chemical weapon to knock out madsen and comicbookguy on US soil and that being described as "protocol" like its a normal thing. Has the US ever used knockout gas? The russians did and killed a bunch of people.
:) I guess most people don't have a 'am I working for a supervillan?' checklist or sense that rpg players develop.
On time travel
Cryogenics with programming Demolition Man style?
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I've seen episode 1 and 2. They were fun to watch. Not as good as fringe yet though.
** spoiler omitted **
My prediction is that this show will go the way of Camelot.
I suspect you're right.
They have miscast the lead cop actors. The female half pint and the barrel doctor. Sam Neil and the FBI, in fact everyone else is excellently casted.
I'm a fan of the 2 leads. Call me weird, but I like them together. I'm hoping to see Sarah Jones in a bikini before it's cancelled.
I wanted to like it, but it was far too brutally violent for my taste. Not my cup of tea. I'm really intrigued by the background, but couldn't get past the brutal murders of innocents. Kind of exhausting to watch.
So, color me unimpressed. I won't cry if it's cancelled.
My prediction is that this show will go the way of Camelot.
Well considering all the critics love it, we will see. However I would not be surprised.
Some shows take awhile to get rolling. I was sorta "meh" about Community, but I love it now.
The 2 shows I saw that the leads came from (Lost and SOA) started out with a bang, and kept moving, for the most part. This one, I think, needed more exposition. It's not bad, it just needs to really get moving.
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So far, I've found it interesting. And I like both Sam Neil and Jorge García. I look forward to seeing where this is going.
In the mean time, apparently some people are having trouble with reality.
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Oh dear, what a mess.
If this gets a second season I'll eat my Firefly boxset.
It's just so ... monster of the week, with a tagged on end sequence blatantly trying to make you want to watch next week, just to learn about the arc plot. So in other words, unless you do as I was doing by episode 3 and watch the first and last 5-10 minutes, you watch 30 minutes of 'criminal of the week being bad' which is dull, to get to the 5 minutes or so that is actually what you want to see.
That isn't good tv. I want the whole of a show's episode to be interesting, not just the 'please keep watching' bit at the end.
As other's have said the main leads are miscast. Except Sam Neil and some of the senior prison staff (the bald head warden guy is kinda great). The fat guy isn't just miscast, his character is entirely unbelievable; a comic book store guy who's a super-duper-genius, knows everything about Alcatraz, is enormous - yet rarely seen eating, and who despite being suposedly super-smart blurts the details of his new secret job to the hired help.
I am officially stopping watching this one now. Terrible.
Rockheimr, I can't disagree with the first half of your post, because I find myself more interested in the arc plot than the individual pieces as well; I think that may have to do with the show needing time to settle in.
As for the second half...
As other's have said the main leads are miscast. Except Sam Neil and some of the senior prison staff (the bald head warden guy is kinda great). The fat guy isn't just miscast, his character is entirely unbelievable; a comic book store guy who's a super-duper-genius, knows everything about Alcatraz,
Does a super-duper-genius only have careers like doctor, lawyer, scientist or professor open to him? Sometimes smart people follow their bliss, too.
is enormous - yet rarely seen eating,
You say this as if you expect him to turn around and swallow his partner whole or something. I have known a number of large people who don't eat a ton, and are large for other reasons than that they couldn't control their appetite.
and who despite being suposedly super-smart blurts the details of his new secret job to the hired help.
That just means his Wisdom score is not on par with his Intelligence. I have known many very smart people who didn't have the sense of a turnip.
The show may yet fail for any number of reasons - I can't figure out why the leads are so blindly following Sam Neil's character, who is so obviously hiding so much - but I like the character leads, and am willing to give it some time to see where they go.
It's not just the implausibility of his situation - that's arguable agreed - but that the actor himself just doesn't convince me he is as smart as the character is meant to be.
The actor did an okay job as Hurley ... but Hurley was a bit of a dope. I just don't buy him as a genius and I don't think the show is doing a good job of showing him as such either.
Re why they're following Sam Neill's character despite his lack of openess - well that won't change. This kind of show will continue to drip feed you the stuff you actually want to know. It's a trick that's getting real old imo, and after Lost and BSG, relying on big secrets to keep people watching requires good answers to be ready. Personally I doubt there'll be much behind the curtain here either.
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Well this week we are going to see a guard come back rather than a con. Either we are gonna find out that all this violence is part of some master plan as the guard also goes on a killing spree, or we will see more of a human drama episode as the guard tries to adapt to having lost nearly 45 years of his life and Sam Neil struggles with the need to put this otherwise good person behind bars just to keep the secret of the '63s.
I don't see it that way. Some people are just naturally likable and bring out the "nice guy" in the people around him.Everyone goes out of their way to be nice to the big guy. Super political correctness.
I remember at least one bad guy insulting his girth. Polite people just don't do that, and there are so many fat people these days, they're barely noticed.
JMO, but I don't think he's so much a genius as an expert on Alcatraz and comic books. You have to be smart to get a PhD, but it's a function of going to school long enough, more than being a genius. He has a great memory for all things Alcatraz, but he's no MacGuyver.
He's believably out of his element at grisly crime scenes or when he's in danger. You can tell he'd rather be at home curled up with a stack of comics and a box of Krispy Kremes.
This kind of show will continue to drip feed you the stuff you actually want to know. It's a trick that's getting real old imo, and after Lost and BSG, relying on big secrets to keep people watching requires good answers to be ready.
I never watched Lost or BSG (I know, I know, I'm shredding my geek card as I speak), but one show that I feel did this well was Alias (J.J. Abrams' first big deal, AFAIK). Of course, with the show being structured the way it was, you had Jennifer Garner's Sydney doing some very cool butt-kicking spy stuff in between the drips and drabs of meta plot. We'll have to see how Alcatraz fares in that respect; I agree with you that if they can't do it well, it won't last long.
Alias had Jack Bristow, Arvin Sloan and Irina Derevko. So far, the only character getting near that is the Warden. Sam Neil hasn't delivered yet.
PS - alias was the bomb.
I did love Alias too, right up to the end ... buuut, like Lost and BSG imho, they didn't have a good explanation ready for the BIG SECRET (in Alias's case - how was Rambaldi able to be so technologically advanced so long ago).
Setting up and keeping a good mystery going is one thing, but if there's no well worked out core to that mystery you are doomed to ultimately being disappointing and at the least killing any rewatchability long term.
I loved Lost for example, but after that ending you couldn't get me to rewatch a single ep if you paid me.
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If you knew the prisoners were coming back, why make the prison a park/museum with tours and boat rides? It'd be a helluva lot easier to keep all the cells locked up so the prisoners reappearing are still jailed, and without means of escaping into the general population to kill again. With a body count of at least ten as a result, including two cops plus a third retired one, this should be a no-brainer. I realize there wouldn't be show if it was done like this, but it's an extremely glaring plot hole nonetheless.
Well we now know that they are not all appearing on Alcatraz. I missed the last couple of episodes so I can't confirm this, but I wonder if there is some significance to the places where they comeback at.
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