Multi-bane weapons


Rules Questions


So I was reading in the rulebook under "Magic Items" -> "Weapons". In the "Melee Weapon Special Abilities" table if you roll high enough (100 for a minor weapon, 96+ for a medium, or 90+ for a major weapon) you get to roll again twice.

That means that it's possible (though unlikely) to find a weapon that has two "Bane" special abilities. In fact, it's possible (though very unlikely) to find a weapon that has a bane against the same creature twice, resulting in +4 to hit and +4d6 damage.

So that got me thinking - is it possible to craft a magic weapon with multiple banes? Do you just pay the +1 bonus for each bane (i.e. [# of banes]^2 x 2,000 gp)?

Thanks!


Yes, you can theoretically do this.

You pay the full bonus of the weapon. So a +1 (Blank) Bane, (Blank) Bane weapon would have the same price as a +3 weapon.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You can have multiple banes, but I do not believe they stack. It would be +2 to hit/+2d6 damage only. The benefit is you get it against more creatures, not the same creature at twice strength.

Edit: Reviewing it, it seems the 2d6 untyped damage may stack, but since bane says 'treat the enhancement bonus as 2 higher', in both cases you are treating the +1 as a +3, not as a +1 with an extra +2. There is no addition going on, so you cannot stack the bane increases.


Yea. Sorry, if you're trying to get a +4 4d6 dragonbane weapon, no dice.

A +1 Dragon/Elf Bane weapon would work fine. The tables in the game are meant to be used with common sense. The table you sit around are meant for hitting people who try to do things like trying to get a +9 +8d6 dragonbane weapon for a +5 equivalent.


Weables wrote:
...people who try to do things like trying to get a +9 +8d6 dragonbane weapon for a +5 equivalent.

It's like you're reading my mind! :)


you can get a +4 4d6 Bane against any creature on any weapon you use if your playing an inquisitor if that helps ;)

its unclear if a Bane enchantment would stack with the class Bane ability for +6 6d6 dmg total


The footnote on the chart strongly implies that duplicate abilities are not valid.

footnote wrote:
Reroll if you get a duplicate special ability, an ability incompatible with an ability that you've already rolled, or if the extra ability puts you over the +10 limit. A weapon's enhancement bonus and special ability bonus equivalents can't total more than +10.


I'm afraid I would have to call those the same bonus and not allow any of them to stack.

sry


Yar.

There have been some discussions on this type of thing before, and it usually ends up being an argument between "You can only have one Bane property on a weapon, period." and "You can have multiple Bane properties, but they MUST be different."

The important rule to remember, which is what narrows the end result to the two above camps is this:

Weapons, CRB pg 468 wrote:
Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

Let me repeat that:

Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

In the PRD, that line is in the paragraphs of text below the tables. Specifically: 3rd paragraph, last sentence.

So, if your not the GM, you should check with your GM. By the rules, finding a weapon with the Bane property twice vs the same creature type is right out/not possible. Finding a weapon with the Bane property more than once but against different creature types is a GM call, based upon how he reads that one sentence in the rules.

~P


I don't remember where it is on the forums (no time to do a search), but SK Reynolds responded that the bane intention is you can have multiple banes, but none of them can ever activate more than once. So, if you have a +1 Elf Bane/Dragon Bane, and you run into a Elf Half-Dragon, then you only get +2 +2d6 from bane, not +2 +4d6 or +4 +4d6 or any other interpretation. The only benefit if the multiple banes is more enemy types you can hit with the bane.

Sovereign Court

So if i hit a devil with a +1 Evil bane Devil bane weapon i don't get it to be a +5 and an additional 4d6 points of damage?


I don't believe that "evil" is a normally legal bane weapon quality (it certainly can't be generated randomly).


Yar.

cwslyclgh wrote:
I don't believe that "evil" is a normally legal bane weapon quality (it certainly can't be generated randomly).

When it comes to outsiders, any subtype tag is legal. The table does not include a list of outsider subtypes, but should you randomly roll an Outsider Bane, you must choose a subtype. A complete list of subtypes are found in the Bestiaries, in the appendices. "Evil" is one of those subtypes.

So it is possible to have an "Outsider: Evil Bane" weapon, but not "Evil Bane" on it's own. (for essentially that, you need the "Holy" property).

~P

Liberty's Edge

cwslyclgh wrote:
I don't believe that "evil" is a normally legal bane weapon quality (it certainly can't be generated randomly).

He probably meant evil outsider bane and lawful outsider bane.

I would certainly say no.


Yar.

I posted this in one of the older Bane weapon threads, but I'll copy-paste it here.

Note: there is an Evil subtype, a Lawful subtype, and a Devil subtype.

BI&II subtype list:

Aeon
Agathion
Air
Angel
Aquatic
Archon
Augmented
Azata
Chaotic
Cold
Daemon
Dark Folk
Demon
Devil
Dwarf
Earth
Elemental
Elf
Evil
Extraplanar
Fire
Giant
Gnome
Goblinoid
Good
Halfling
Human
Incorporeal
Inevitable
Lawful
Native
Orc
Nightshade
Protean
Qlippoth
Reptilian
Shapechanger
Swarm
Water

...and even this list is not all inclusive for Humanoid/Outsider subtypes. There is also (Tengu) for example. But everything in this list, if it applies to either humanoids or outsiders, is a valid choice for the Bane property.

If you allow for multiple Bane's of different types, you could theoretically have a +1 Outsider (Evil) Bane, Outsider (Lawful) Bane, Outsider (Devil) Bane weapon (that is a +4 weapon equivalent, fyi).

According to SKR, you would have to choose which one was working when attacking a Devil, so you'd only net an extra +2/+2d6 from your multiple Bane properties.

However, if you added the Holy property, that would stack, making it +2/+4d6 against foes that qualify for the extra bonuses from both Bane and Holy.

~P


Moving away from bane, for a moment, could you have a weapon with both frost and flaming?


I like specialized weapons. I like them so much that not only do I allow multiple applicable banes to stack, I do not require a +1 minimum on a weapon that only has bane enchantments (although I do restrict choices to the favored enemy list).

It may end up cheaper for a character to have a selection of specialized tools of their trade as opposed to one source of concentrated awesome, but I like that in a professional adventurer.

I do sadly accept after reading this thread, though, that this is all houseruling and that by design there is only one bane that does not self stack, not a separate creaturebane for every type.


Yar!

Ashenfall wrote:
Moving away from bane, for a moment, could you have a weapon with both frost and flaming?

RAW, yes.

~P


I'm cold! I'm hot! I'm cold! I'm hot!

I call shenanigans.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ashenfall wrote:
Moving away from bane, for a moment, could you have a weapon with both frost and flaming?

You could, and Paizo published just such a weapon in the 3.5 AP Shackled City, a greatsword named Coldfire.


Or flaming and corrosive!
Argh it burns! I mean it burns (chemically)! I mean it burns! I mean it burns (chemically)!

Sovereign Court

Oh sorry, i meant what if i hit a demon with an axiomatic, holy weapon? Wouldn't it stack?


Ashenfall wrote:

I'm cold! I'm hot! I'm cold! I'm hot!

I call shenanigans.

have you ever seen the experiment where you have a several thin metal pipes running next to each other.

evey even pipe runs warm/hot water and every odd pipe runs cold water. So it alternates hot cold hot cold hot cold.

You then place your hand over the pipes so your touching multiple hot and cold pipes at the same time. the sensation is one of scalding/burning even though individually the cold is not cold enough to hurt nor is the hot.

when nerves close to each other get mixed signals weird things happen so quite possibility if you got hit with a flame/frost weapon the sensation might actually be more excruciating than a flame or frost on its own.


Yar.

Hama wrote:
Oh sorry, i meant what if i hit a demon with an axiomatic, holy weapon? Wouldn't it stack?

Axiomatic and Holy are seperate properties, so they can be on the same weapon.

Axiomatic deals extra damage to creatures with a Chaotic alignment.

Holy deals extra damage to creatures with an Evil alignment.

(nitpick: Devils are LE, so would not be affected by Axiomatic)

The type of damage is untyped and from different properties. Should you hit something that qualifies for extra damage from both, you would apply both. Just as you would apply both Flaming and Holy when attacking an evil white dragon.

Axiomatic, Anarchic, Holy, Unholy, Frost, Shock, Flaming, Thundering, Vicious, Corrosive, and Bane are all different properties. As such, they all stack with each other. Normally you cannot have duplicate properties on a single weapon. Bane is unique as it seems that you can have multiple Banes on the same weapon so long as they affect different creatures/subtypes. Bane will not stack with itself, but everything else stacks with each other.

An Axiomatic Holy Outsider (Demon) Bane weapon would gain all benefits when attacking a Chaotic Evil Demon.

An Axiomatic Holy Outsider (Evil) Bane weapon would gain all benefits when attacking a Chaotic Evil Outsider.

According to SKR: An Axiomatic Holy Outsider (Demon) Bane Outsider (Evil) Bane weapon would gain Axiomatic + Holy + ONLY ONE of the Banes vs a Chaotic Evil Demon.

~P


Ch3rnobyl wrote:

In fact, it's possible (though very unlikely) to find a weapon that has a bane against the same creature twice, resulting in +4 to hit and +4d6 damage.

You cannot put the same ability on the same weapon. Identical typed boni do not stack. So while you COULD put Evil Outsider Bane and Lawful Outsider Bane on the same weapon, you could not get Evil Outsider Bane twice on the same weapon and have any of it stack.

So while Lawful and Evil would both affect devils, you could not do evil twice and double up the damage.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ashenfall wrote:

I'm cold! I'm hot! I'm cold! I'm hot!

I call shenanigans.

On what? Do you think you can't be burned while you're standing in ice?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Ashenfall wrote:

I'm cold! I'm hot! I'm cold! I'm hot!

I call shenanigans.

On what? Do you think you can't be burned while you're standing in ice?

On the one hand, I just love the word 'shenanigans.'

On the other hand, I find it silly to have a weapon doing elemental damage that should mathematically, elementally, alchemically, endoexothermically, and shenaniganomically cancel itself out.

But hey, it's magic. I'll allow it!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*fistbump*

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