Rejecting all the factions?


Serpent's Skull


When I look at the list of factions that might sponsor an expedition, I suspect my players might not want to work with any of them for various reasons. Has anyone had this happen and how did you handle it?

I've been considering adding a couple of extra castaways to the first module who have connections that can help provide alternate sponsorship if the PCs reject all of the "standard" factions. Has anyone tried something like that and, if so, how did it work out?


This might be workable, but I would strongly suggest that if you do it that you limit the number of factions that actually make it to the end of the race to the city down to five, with any extras being eliminated from the running by sabotage, ambush, or just plain dumb luck. It'll be less of a strain to keep track of in the long run.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Out of curiosity: Why do you think your players won't work with any of the factions? I find them quite diverse and think they deliver a few hooks to get PCs involved with them.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

In the lead up to the faction negotiations I would try to think of how the PCs would react to the factions and the reasons why the PCs won't choose them. Think of how the factions would make their pitches to appeal to the individual PCs because they really want the PCs to pick them.

I found that the book lacked detail in how the factions would contribute to the expedition so I had a flick through book 3 and read up on how the factions contributed. I also used the NPCs from the island to give their opinion on the factions.

We have our own forums so a lot of this is put up on a forums before sitting at the table to play, but here's one bit that I'd put up:

Aspis Consortium

Ishirou: "The Aspis Consortium is a trade organisation with interests in many parts of the region. Many will speak ill of them and say that the Aspis are willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish their goals, but like any large organisation they are a diverse group and not all its members are ruthless in their pursuit of ambitions. You can pick their members by the emblem badge that has a golden snake on a shield. The metal of the shield tells you their rank with bronze being a base level member, silver a full member and gold the mark of regional leaders. I can make contact with them to organise a meeting if you like. If you were to forge a deal with them you would be well supported as they always succeed and are well resourced to ensure such an endeavour as yours will succeed."

Gelik: "Unlike many other trade groups the Aspis Consortium has greater reach and the willingness to ruthless use that reach. I advise caution in dealing with. Take time considering whatever they offer you as its always double edged. They will no doubt offer you the best support, but they'll be demanding and push you to make great haste to get achieve their aims."

Jask: "I'm told that Dargan Etters is the local leader in Eledar. I'm pretty sure I've dealt with him in the past at the Bloodcove. From memory at the time he was a young charismatic merchant rising up through the ranks. He was full of ambition that bordered on arrogance as he relentless worked built his prestige amongst his colleagues and forced his way up the ranks. I have no doubt that he will be interested in Saventh-Yhi and once he hears of it will seek you out. And he'll find out as the Aspis have many eyes and ears that would impress a spymaster. One last thing, before you make any agreements with him check it thoroughly for any grey areas. From memory he likes to exploit and twist interpretations."

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Even if ALL your players aren't interested in a faction, hopefully you can snag one or two. If the others just want to tag along with the faction supporter(s), great! They can garner their own fame and fortune while only some of the group earns faction PA. Nothing says the whole group needs to get along with the faction that's sponsoring them.

Also if you have players more interested in following different factions, you can do that too.
My group as a whole decided to lead the government (lured in by promises of a land grant). However, upon being approached individually, I had one player that was secretly helping lead the Pathfinders, another that carried a tracker for the Consortium and another that left trail markers for the Pirates. They ALL wanted to join different factions... except the three that weren't interested in factions at all and just went along for their own personal wealth/reasons.

Actually, Racing to Ruin was a LOT more fun with people working for different factions. Lots of notes passed around the table. Heh.


Nullpunkt wrote:
Out of curiosity: Why do you think your players won't work with any of the factions? I find them quite diverse and think they deliver a few hooks to get PCs involved with them.

I can't be certain they'll reject all of them, of course, but I have my suspicions.

This group tends to be a pretty "white hat" bunch and I expect them to reject the Red Mantis right off because, well, they're evil and assassins. Likewise, I am fairly certain I can expect the PCs to avoid the Aspis Consortium for being basically evil, though it's possible their evil is hidden enough to fool the PCs.

I can't be certain, but I suspect the group will be pretty reluctant to align with the Sargava government once they see the situation in Sargava and the treatment the natives receive.

The pirates could go either way, I suppose, but I am expecting significant concern about a double-cross of some kind even if the PCs are satisfied these aren't actually evil pirates.

The Pathfinder Society? Normally, that's the faction I'd expect them to ally with. However, Gelik is not likely to endear himself to my group as written so I'm planning ahead in case that turns into an in-game rejection. I'm also considering changing Gelik or replacing him with a better "ambassador".


Jenner2057 wrote:
Actually, Racing to Ruin was a LOT more fun with people working for different factions. Lots of notes passed around the table. Heh.

That sounds like it would be really cool, though I'm not sure my group would do that.


I really think this is a better AP for neutral parties than good, but good makes it interesting in its own way.

Dark Archive

MaxKaladin wrote:
The Pathfinder Society? Normally, that's the faction I'd expect them to ally with. However, Gelik is not likely to endear himself to my group as written so I'm planning ahead in case that turns into an in-game rejection. I'm also considering changing Gelik or replacing him with a better "ambassador".

If your group sours to Gelik, don't have him approach the party with an offer at all. Have Amivour try to hire them directly.

Now "as written", Amivour can be played up as a pretty shady explorer, but you can tailor him to be far more "white hat" to appeal to your players if needed.
Heck, they don't even need to know Gelik has gotten back into good graces with the Pathfinders until the main expedition reaches Tazion/Saventh-Yhi. And if they've truly grown to hate his jokes and anticts from the Shiv, that could be a rather amuzing reunion. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I mixed up the affiliations of the NPCs in order to put the most disliked ones in league with the factions that the PCs are most likely to dislike as well. That way Gelik joined the Sargavan government and I also had Amivor approach the group on his own when the group's sorcerer did some research on their findings in Eleder's archives. I played him as some kind of Indy-ripoff and that way he has grown to be a trusted ally.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

I can understand why none of the factions might be appealing. Four out of five of them are, if not evil, at least unsavory slavers and the fifth is the Pathfinders. If the Pathfinders' more amoral aspects are played up, it can be a problem, but even if not, the fact that there's no "good guy" option and only one "marginally okay guy" option can be pretty grating.

There was talk on another thread about pulling together a faction of native Mwangi freemen looking to claim a part of their racial heritage in Saventh-Yhi. That might be a good "good guy" option, especially if your party (like mine) leans heavily on Mwangi ethnicities among the PCs.


we hated all the npcs, and really werent interested in working with any faction.....but chose one to make the modules work

the whole set up seemed 'ugly'

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Another option that I recommended to someone else is create your own group that the PCs WILL go along with and have them "link up" with an established group.

Say you have a follower of Sarenrae. He goes to the church and asks if they can fund an expedition.
Response: "Well we don't really have the funds or logistics to do that. But we do have several followers that are friendly with the Pathfinders. We'll send a small delegation with the Pathfinder expedition."

This was actually done by one of my players who was wondering if his church of Gozrah would fund the expedition.
"Well we can't, but several of our followers sail with the Shackles and are even on Captain Kassatta's crew. We'll send a delegation along with them!"

Just something to make it a bit more palatable.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Jenner. Oh man, you just hit the nail on the head for me. I have two PC's devoted to Desna that could go with either the Sargavans or the Pathfinders, because one of the other PC's wants to be a pathfinder, but a fourth is the daughter of a Sargavan official. I expect there to be some great rp potential there, in making a choice. I have a MAJOR subplot involving Desna and now from your advice, I will have a small Desna faction seeking passage into the hinterlands as well, looking for allies.

I really need to start my own thread because I want to share a lot of the hooks I used, but also get some advice for future hooks...soon


Demiurge 1138 wrote:
I can understand why none of the factions might be appealing. Four out of five of them are, if not evil, at least unsavory slavers and the fifth is the Pathfinders. If the Pathfinders' more amoral aspects are played up, it can be a problem, but even if not, the fact that there's no "good guy" option and only one "marginally okay guy" option can be pretty grating.

The sums up my thoughts on why my group may not ally with any of the factions much more succinctly than I put it.

Demiurge 1138 wrote:
There was talk on another thread about pulling together a faction of native Mwangi freemen looking to claim a part of their racial heritage in Saventh-Yhi. That might be a good "good guy" option, especially if your party (like mine) leans heavily on Mwangi ethnicities among the PCs.

No characters have been created yet, so I don't know the demographics of the group yet.


Jenner2057 wrote:

Another option that I recommended to someone else is create your own group that the PCs WILL go along with and have them "link up" with an established group.

Say you have a follower of Sarenrae. He goes to the church and asks if they can fund an expedition.
Response: "Well we don't really have the funds or logistics to do that. But we do have several followers that are friendly with the Pathfinders. We'll send a small delegation with the Pathfinder expedition."

This was actually done by one of my players who was wondering if his church of Gozrah would fund the expedition.
"Well we can't, but several of our followers sail with the Shackles and are even on Captain Kassatta's crew. We'll send a delegation along with them!"

Just something to make it a bit more palatable.

That's got possibilities. I won't know until the players make characters who might work best but I'll keep it in mind.


Aaaaaaand Jenner continues to be awesome in this AP. And I continue to wish I'd read his stuff before starting it. Ah, well.

Most of my suggestions were nabbed as well, but, due to the circumstances of our particular campaign (all five organizations were either decisively defeated, co-opted, or integrated... as well as a few others), I ended up making four new organizations as well to challenge the PCs and it worked quite well. You don't even really need a true "ambassador" on the island, as they kind of drop out of the written books in part four (they have minor quests in book three).

Otherwise, read Jenner's stuff.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think you're really missing an opportunity for your good aligned PCs to make a positive difference in the game world. The PCs can impose some terms on the factions for positive social change. You might need to spell it out to your players and remind them that they can't impose massive change, but they could set change in motion that leads to what they want - eg: end of slavery and equality for all.

For a group with an idealistic-bent I'd tweak the factions or at least make the negotiations a key part of the game. Let the group know that its a bidding war and they have a chance to do something more than just line their pockets. They can make counter offers and put forward their own terms and demands to the factions. The factions can respond with another offer and eventually they come to a mid point that both can accept.

For example:
The Sargavan government's primary interest in the city is to get the wealth they need to pull their country out from its security dependancy on the pirates. They want a large navy, which takes years to build and train. The potential wealth of Savinth-yhi would enable them to keep their security agreement with the pirates going for a couple of years while building the navy. In the negotiations they are willing to:
* End slavery once they've built at least two hundred ships which is expected to take two years.
* Creation of education programs for the natives so they are capable of working in offical positions
* Good pieces of land in safe areas for the natives to own and work. Some of it could be around the city as the government develops it.
* Involvement of the Freeman Brotherhood in the growth and development of Savinth-yhi and the region with natives being given fair oppirtunity to become land owners and merchants.
* Non-negotiables would be significant (probably majority) of cities wealth, military gear (eg: mass warfare magical items such as enchanted seige weapons) and any artifacts that could cause civil unrest

PCs could make gather information checks to learn that key influential figures in the government detest slavery, but are unable to end it because its the biggest wealth generator and they need it to pay the pirates. They could also learn who these key figures are get them as part of the expedition party to settle and occupy the city.

Red Mantis primary interest is the temple and the potential sacred artifacts inside. They'd be unwilling to let anyone have that, but the rest would be negotiable. Naturally they'd want some land and wealth, but its minor interest and tradable. I would think they would be willing to accept the following terms:
* 50% of the surrounding land to go the natives to work and own as they see fit. PCs may even be able to negotiate that the city belong to the natives (except the temple) with the Red Mantis providing intelligence and training to ensure the city is safe from the government
* 25-50% of the wealth found to go to the natives or be distributed as the PCs see fit to the surround tribes and/or Freeman Brotherhood.
* They would likely try to have the entire temple district left to them, but the PCs should be able to negotiate with them to ease off here. They would however be unmovable on the temple to their god being in their position only. With negotiation PCs could get them to allow historical experts to enter under the strict supervision of the Red Mantis and on their terms (some areas off limits).
* Non-negotiable would be that they control the temple and get all its contents, plus an artifacts and magical items relating to their god in the city.

Aspis Consortium's primary interest is wealth so they would want a major cut of the wealth as well as the trade routes and best resource generating land. They could offer to provide jobs, land, education and training for the natives to enable them to rise above the oppression. They'll want to make the city a trading outpose as quick as possible and will need a population to build it and work it. They're really flexible as whether the people working the city are slaves or paid workers they would get rich out of getting the city up and running quickly.

Its okay to have some factions as clear villains for your PCs and I think thats why they all have a bit of an unsavoury flavour to them. Have the Aspis and Pirates promise greater levels of wealth to tempt your good guys. It will be good for the role play and give the players a chance to show that their characters are genuine good guys.

Hope it helps mate.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey, thanks for the kind words Tacticslion and Meowzebub! Glad I could help!

And great points BQ! I like how they could negotiate to help the region by helping the government.
(Unfortunately I played up General Havelar as such a racist so-and-so that the PCs HATED him by the time they led the government expedition to Saventh-Yhi. They immediately jumped ship over to the Pirates/Pathfinders to claim the city.)

And the idea that there's only ONE "good" group (the Pathfinders) isn't completely true. You could totally set up the Pirates as a good group.

When on Smuggler's Shiv, have Aerys mention she sails with Kassata and have her go out of her way to describe how Captain Lewynn doesn't engage in the slave trade, refuses to protect slavers, and is quick to save any ships under attack. Really play Kassata up as an Errol Flynn pirate. Yeah, Sargava pays protection money to the Shackles, but Kassata is trying to buy her own island, fleet and seat on the Pirate Council to make a better deal for the region and cut down on bloodthirsty attacks.
(For my Shadowrun readers, you could think of Kassata's Pirates more like some of the gangs in the Barrens. Yes businesses may pay them protection money, but the gang might be the only "law" in the area, protecting them from much more unsavory sorts. shrug)

This is just a suggestion, of course. My all neutral party had no problem working with my own "power-hungry" Kassata. :)

And remember that though the Consortium as a whole is NE, Ishirou himself isn't. I played him up as a "freelance treasure hunter," an honorable man who was just doing a job. If they form a friendship with him, maybe they're just helping him out and not his employers.
My own players have a love/hate relationship with Ishirou. During RtR, he used a STR damage poision on the PCs horses to slow them down, waving as he galloped away saying "Nothing personal; just doing a job!" Due to that, when the PCs caught up with him later they were careful to NOT kill him or his scouts, instead just taking their horses and making them walk back to the main expedition to get new horses. A kind of professional courtesy if you will.

Again, just pointing out that depending on how you play them, you can give the PCs more options of "good" factions to side with. Shrug.


Hey, Jenner, you're welcome! It's great! I love the Castaway angles too!

BY the way, BQ: I totally didn't say this before (I'm sorry, I just forgot): I love your introduction fluff and your negotiation concepts! Eeeeeeeeexcellent!


OK, I've got one I need to figure out. We're just now entering the temple on Smuggler's Shiv. The NPCs all stayed behind at the lighthouse while the PCs are exploring the temple.

My party wound up befriending all the NPCs, though Gelik and Aeris were almost not accepted by the party (I think the fact that they all realized that each NPC gave bonuses helped). Right now, Gelik is still the butt of jokes and insults behind his back, but the PCs are very friendly towards all the NPCs.

Jask and Aeris both have amorous PCs doting on them and Ishirou is very respected by all. How will this affect the factions? If they are friendly towards all the NPCs, how can I get the 'rival' factions to seem, well...like rivals?

Other than Gelik being a Pathfinder and Sasha being a member of the Red Mantis faction (which due to low knowledge rolls they only know as a brotherhood of assassins) the PCs don't have much reason to suspect each NPC as belonging to a 'faction' yet.

My first thought is to not even involve the NPCs when they get to the mainland and just have them approached by factions with each faction belittling or trash talking about the others. That way they can chose a faction based more upon the motives behind each group rather than any sense of friendship amongst the NPCs.

I suspect they'll chose the Pathfinder faction due to one of the PCs wanting to become a member.

Any suggestions on how to run this are appreciated.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Her's an older post about what I did in my game, maybe it helps:
Click

Dark Archive

You could totally have the factions approach the PCs without the castaways involved. The faction leaders' first choice is probably going to be trying to go through "their" castaway to make the pitch, just because they assume the castaways would be closer to the PCs. But if their castaway didn't survive or was hated, obviously the faction leader would have to do it himself.

Another option could be to leave out the castaways and then -depending on who the PCs decide to help- mix and match the castaways for maximum RP potential.

Example: if Gelik is the party favorite they return to Eleder and all say their goodbyes. The faction leaders make their offers and the party goes with Amivour and the Pathfinders (having the Aspis as rivals). Now if you wanted to mess with the PCs (translated: RP potential) imagine the opportunities if they're getting supplies and spot Gelik walking around with the Consortium. Seems he got tired of trying to get back into the good graces of the Pathfinders and the Consortium was paying him big money now. Do the PCs jump factions to join their good friend (and risk Amivour anger)? Do they try to convince Gelik to come with them (and seriously ticking off Dargan and the Consortium)? How about when they meet Gelik on the road as a Consortium scout? Are they willing to kill their once friend or do they just slow him down?

The point is, don't feel constrained by having to have the castaways work with "their" faction. Have them switch around based on what you think would be the most fun and present the best gaming opportunities.
Every single one of the castaways has a reason to return to "their" faction... and also a pretty good reason to dislike them as well.

Jask: he worked for the Government, but maybe he's still bitter about that whole unjust imprisonment thing
Gelik: was in the Pathfinders but fell from their good graces. Might still hold a grudge
Aerys: sailed with the Shackles pirates but maybe she holds them responsible for her falling into an alcoholic lifestyle
Sasha: that whole missing finger thing probably doesn't make her too loyal to the Red Mantis.
Ishirou: his debt to the Consortium is actually paid off. He could go off as a True N treasure hunter with anyone.

Just some things to think about. :)


Thanks for the ideas! After thinking it over, and reading both your posts, I've got an idea that I'm thinking will work. I'm going to have the factions directly approach the PCs at first. Only later, once they decide which faction they are working with (and perhaps made a few enemies of the others) will I re-introduce some of the NPCs back in. It should be fun to watch the roleplaying when they realize some of their friends are aligned with the 'enemy'. Since they will most likely align with the Pathfinder Society I'm going to be particularly evil when I introduce Jask back in. With the one PCs crush on him it will be real fun to see what they do.


thenovalord wrote:
we hated all the npcs, and really werent interested in working with any faction.....but chose one to make the modules work

*Is* a faction required to make this AP work?

I haven't read past 'Race to Ruin,' but the whole faction set-up seems kind of unlikely for me and mine. I suspicion that my players will be making some effort to keep their discovery secret and any heavy-handed "oh they found out anyway" will make them pretty resentful. Even if I did manage to leak the info and start the race, I can't see any good argument as to why the PCs need a large group to go do something small adventuring parties have been doing alone for 30 years.

Spoil me. What happens later in the series that requires (or benefits from) the PCs having the support of a large organization?

My assumption is that my players will take the information they learned on the Shiv and just march their way through the jungle to find the city. Aside from the sabotage-related encounters in the two towns, my memory's failing on any conflict that comes from actually "racing" any other factions to the lost city.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

This has been discussed here a few times and you can brose the threads for a more detailed answer, but the short one is this:

The factions are very important in book 3. There is no way for the PCs to gain supplies except through their faction and surveying the city and researching the runes, murals, etc. would take forever without a faction backing you up.

Also the finale is supposed to be an all-out war between an army raised by the PCs and you-know-who. So if you don't want to change the tone of the finale the factions are pretty much vital to it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

For secretative groups you've got a few options:
1) Word gets out about survivors from Smugglers Shiv. They're approached by someone, who may/may not be linked to a faction, that believes the island may have an ancient Azlanti outpost. Their discussion/approach is overheard by someone else that leaks it to another faction. And maybe there are spies in these factions to let another one in on the info.

2) One of the NPCs found something that he/she sells off to a historian who identifies it as Azlanti. Think of archeology and the sort of stuff they find and identify as being linked to a particular ancient culture. That gets to a faction who sends a group to check out the Shiv and comes across the temple.

3) NPCs ask the PCs what happened when they get back to camp. Have the NPC's chatting to the PCs about what they're coming across. That way they have the information and can be a leak or open link to the factions. NPCs may even offer up their faction and the benefits.

4) After the PCs deal with the temple maybe theres a small earthquake or something which reveals part of the temple to people travelling by sea. You could even do it while they're in the temple to add to the urgency. Word could get out about the wild and unnatural looking lightening storm atop of Red Mountain, which would catch the interest of adventurers and obviously the Pathfinders.

5) Its called Smuggler's Shiv so smugglers must use it. There may be caves around the Red Mountain that smugglers have been using when they come across the temple. They check it out and come back to Eleder claiming the discovery. This should really irritate your players, particularly if they're being celebrated for it when the PCs were first. Could add to the race aspect.

6) The Govt. hears about the PCs escape from the Shiv and approach them to learn about their experience. The Govt. is interested in setting up an outpost to function as a warning beacon for Eledar. You could roleplay it out and see if you can catch the players letting slip info regarding the outpost.

7) To locate Tazion the group still needs to research. They'd be getting books and maps, speaking to local experts and so on. This is likely to attract attention to that the group has something big.

8) This is the fun one. Word gets out about the PCs surviving the Shiv. Have one of the faction members approach one PC on their own to learn about their experience. Bribe the PC by offer up gold to entice them. You can have the PC make Bluff checks to conceal that they came across something major. I'd say the Pirates and Aspis Consortium are most likely to do this.

You may need to explain to your players the reasons for why they'll need an expedition. I did it and it ended the "why do we need them". You can even explain to them that explorers have been known to be bumped off by larger groups. I think you need to explain the whole Trailblazing role anyways so why not explain why the need an expedition rather than just going solo.

I used the NPCs as an information source on the factions. Each NPC gave a positive spin (their faction), negative spin (rival faction) and a general info (neutral faction). Tried to keep it as much of an open and unbiased decision as I could.

Dark Archive

Those are all great ones! The easiest one I found for my group was:

7) To locate Tazion the group still needs to research. They'd be getting books and maps, speaking to local experts and so on. This is likely to attract attention to that the group has something big.

As soon as the PCs realized they'd need to do research, they headed for the Colonial Archives in Eleder. As anyone who's been to a large library with lots of old documents knows (I was a history major), you often can't just wander around pawing through things yourself. You need to request a list of resources from an archivist. And those archivists can easily be bribed or might be spies for a faction. Even if they don't know EXACTLY what the PCs are looking for, they know what books and maps they requested so it wouldn't be a stretch for them to get a good idea.


When my group chose a faction to join..

First we looked at what they would give us. Mantis was to give us poisons, which no one could use. Pirates gave us gold. Pathfinder, some compass thingy.. I forget the government faction.. but It was like.. the government who says someone was guilty of a crime we proved to be wrong, and the magic people was going to give us like.. one scroll.

So we were like Pirates give us really good stuff.. But they might be evil.. though what this? Pizock is with them! That proves they are good people!

(and of course my character was actually a pirate himself, the jack sparrow type who isn't afraid of blowing peoples heads off with his flint lock collection)


Ævux wrote:

When my group chose a faction to join..

First we looked at what they would give us. Mantis was to give us poisons, which no one could use. Pirates gave us gold. Pathfinder, some compass thingy.. I forget the government faction.. but It was like.. the government who says someone was guilty of a crime we proved to be wrong, and the magic people was going to give us like.. one scroll.

So we were like Pirates give us really good stuff.. But they might be evil.. though what this? Pizock is with them! That proves they are good people!

(and of course my character was actually a pirate himself, the jack sparrow type who isn't afraid of blowing peoples heads off with his flint lock collection)

Actually, Pezzock was a 'member' of the Mantis Assassins, a cabin boy of sorts. That's the reason he's found with a sabertooth sabre. Also, I found the picture in the rqce building section of the Advanced Race Guide to be a good sub in for Pezzock post-SfSS.


WolfenFenris wrote:
Actually, Pezzock was a 'member' of the Mantis Assassins, a cabin boy of sorts. That's the reason he's found with a sabertooth sabre. Also, I found the picture in the rqce building section of the Advanced Race Guide to be a good sub in for Pezzock post-SfSS.

Here's the thing about Pezock: He's wonderful and the best. Also, while he considered himself a Red Mantis Assassin, and was a jester/cabin boy of sorts, there's no way he'd be allowed back in as a permanent member. Hell, I imagine he'd be targeted by people who'd want their weapon back. Who better to protect the little guy than the Red Mantis' rivals?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

If you have a more "Heroic" group on your hands, check out this thread.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Serpent's Skull / Rejecting all the factions? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Serpent's Skull