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I don't understand Fame


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

Silver Crusade **

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is fame exactly? It says that you can buy from your faction items dependent upon your fame. What is the point of having access to a cloak of resistance from a certificate, if you can just buy one from your faction?

So for example your a 4th level character and you have gotten 2 fame from every scenario for a total of 18, which allows you access to an item of 5,250. Which means you have access to every 2nd level wand in the game. Why do I even care what objects I get on my certificate?

Silver Crusade **

Ill_Made_Knight wrote:

Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is fame exactly? It says that you can buy from your faction items dependent upon your fame. What is the point of having access to a cloak of resistance from a certificate, if you can just buy one from your faction?

So for example your a 4th level character and you have gotten 2 fame from every scenario for a total of 18, which allows you access to an item of 5,250. Which means you have access to every 2nd level wand in the game. Why do I even care what objects I get on my certificate?

Because sometimes, rarely, an item shows up on a chronicle earlier than you would be able to get it via fame. As for the purpose of fame, it helps keep the WBL curve intact, so that a player doesn't save up all their cash and get a crazy powerful weapon far earlier than expected. It also encourages more complete play, instead of racing to the end of a scenario without really experiencing it.

Andoran **** Venture-Captain, Alabama—Birmingham aka Grolloc

Ill_Made_Knight wrote:
Why do I even care what objects I get on my certificate?

What Alexander said, and you sometimes get items that are not normally purchasable at all in the system, such as higher than minimum caster level wands and scrolls, poisons not on the approved list, and partially used (cheaper) wands.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, West Virginia aka Marack

Also consider that people are not supposed to be getting 2 fame per scenario. It is expected that someone should fail a faction about every other scenario for an average of 1.5 fame per session. In practice people seem to be a lot more successful, but that is the intent.

Silver Crusade **

Marack wrote:
Also consider that people are not supposed to be getting 2 fame per scenario. It is expected that someone should fail a faction about every other scenario for an average of 1.5 fame per session. In practice people seem to be a lot more successful, but that is the intent.

More often, you just don't get as much fame because you're playing scenarios that don't have as much available. For instance, We Be Goblins and the First Steps adventures have a max of 1 fame each. Also, modules that are worth 3 xp are only worth 4 fame, not 6. In my group, we probably succeed at 90% of the faction missions, if there are any, but stuff like this means that we really do only average about 1.5 fame per adventure.

Silver Crusade **

Thank you all that have commented, I appreciate your insight to a new DM for the PFS.

Grand Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Fromper wrote:
the First Steps adventures have a max of 1 fame each.

This isn't correct; the First Steps adventures award 2 prestige points each.

You're right about WBG! and the longer modules though.

Silver Crusade **

Paz wrote:
Fromper wrote:
the First Steps adventures have a max of 1 fame each.

This isn't correct; the First Steps adventures award 2 prestige points each.

You're right about WBG! and the longer modules though.

???

I've played two of the First Steps adventures, and I got 1 prestige for each of them. Given that there were no faction missions, I thought this was accurate.


Fromper, you get both points as detailed below. This is from First Steps, part one, page 20:

Spoiler:
Success Conditions

In order for the PCs to earn their Prestige Point for
completing the adventure, they must have completed at
least three of the four tasks on Ambrus Valsin’s list.

Faction Missions

There are no faction-specific missions in this scenario,
as PCs playing through the First Steps series have not
yet chosen factions, so any PC who meets the scenario’s
success conditions earns a second Prestige Point for
completing the scenario.

Silver Crusade **

Ok, thanks. I was the player, not the GM for the First Steps adventures I've played, so I haven't read any of them. I'll point this out to our organizer, so he can correct the prestige for the First Step sessions we've played with our local group.

***

Fromper wrote:
Ok, thanks. I was the player, not the GM for the First Steps adventures I've played, so I haven't read any of them. I'll point this out to our organizer, so he can correct the prestige for the First Step sessions we've played with our local group.

Saw your post this morning. This has been corrected for all "First Steps" scenarios played by the group since we we started. I also reported the Pallid Plague session from yesterday.


Ill_Made_Knight wrote:
So for example your a 4th level character and you have gotten 2 fame from every scenario for a total of 18, which allows you access to an item of 5,250. Which means you have access to every 2nd level wand in the game. Why do I even care what objects I get on my certificate?

Ideally, there would be all kinds of cool, more expensive items available via adventure chronicles. In practice, there's mostly cheap stuff that's already available (e.g. lots of potions and scrolls).

Shadow Lodge ****

Im new to PFS but not to AR's so this is just a request for clarification based on an example

I am planning to play a Finess Whip character ... assuming I dont find an Agile Whip on an AR I can use Fame to get access to it?

18 Fame - 5,250gp Value
300{mw}
1{Weapon cost}
4,000{+1 and Agile}

am I correct on this ?

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

Nope, not quite. a +2 weapon is 8000 gp. You were looking, I think, at the creation cost, not the buying cost. It'll cost you 8301 gp which you'll need 27 fame before you can get it. (Some see the 8000 limit at 22 fame and think that's enough, but you have to calculate the entire cost of the weapon, not just the enchantments)

Qadira ***

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Nope, not quite. a +2 weapon is 8000 gp. You were looking, I think, at the creation cost, not the buying cost. It'll cost you 8301 gp which you'll need 27 fame before you can get it. (Some see the 8000 limit at 22 fame and think that's enough, but you have to calculate the entire cost of the weapon, not just the enchantments)

ok, this is perhaps a silly question on my part, but it seems to me that the following would work....

PC spends 2PP to gain a Masterwork weapon of some note, let's say a whip. the item has a cost of 0 gp. and a re-sale value of 0 gp. He then get's it enchanted to +2 (cost, +8000 gp). This results in a weapon with a cost of 8000 gp... right? could he then buy this when he has 22 Fame?


nosig wrote:
PC spends 2PP to gain a Masterwork weapon of some note, let's say a whip. the item has a cost of 0 gp. and a re-sale value of 0 gp. He then get's it enchanted to +2 (cost, +8000 gp). This results in a weapon with a cost of 8000 gp... right? could he then buy this when he has 22 Fame?

Good luck with that interpretation. ;-)

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

That's a good question. I'd probably rule (in the absence of a higher authority chiming in) that you still would need to go by the base value of the weapon. Thus though you can't sell it back for anything, it is still worth 301 for the purpose of upgrading it. But again, if a higher up (M&M) says otherwise, I'll gladly bow to their ruling.

Qadira ***

not that I've done it... but I have a buddy that has a Darkwood Long Comp. Bow (Str. 16) that he got for his first 2PP and he's wondering when he can enchant it.


Why not go one step further with that logic?

If items that you get via PP have no sale value, then they have a value of zero gold pieces, and hence they have a value less than 700 gp. So you can get any item in the game for 2 PP!

(P.S. I don't think it works that way.)

Shadow Lodge ****

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Nope, not quite. a +2 weapon is 8000 gp. You were looking, I think, at the creation cost, not the buying cost. It'll cost you 8301 gp which you'll need 27 fame before you can get it. (Some see the 8000 limit at 22 fame and think that's enough, but you have to calculate the entire cost of the weapon, not just the enchantments)

DOH your right on the ammount ... I should probably not post when Im Just waking up

the question was more about the mechanics rather than the amounts , so it was my fault for improper wording ...

I should have asked if Fame was a way to suppliment access on AR's

Andoran ***

Wraith235 wrote:
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Nope, not quite. a +2 weapon is 8000 gp. You were looking, I think, at the creation cost, not the buying cost. It'll cost you 8301 gp which you'll need 27 fame before you can get it. (Some see the 8000 limit at 22 fame and think that's enough, but you have to calculate the entire cost of the weapon, not just the enchantments)

DOH your right on the ammount ... I should probably not post when Im Just waking up

the question was more about the mechanics rather than the amounts , so it was my fault for improper wording ...

I should have asked if Fame was a way to suppliment access on AR's

Simple answer: Yes.

In LG terms, everything is limited Open access. Limit is your Fame score/GP allowance.

Always Available is the equivaklent of LG Open Access.

And there are things which are not ever available, similar to the Closed list in LG. Magical Knack & Rich Parents traits, for example.

So, for PFS, a +1 whip is always Available, gold willing; but a +2 or +2 equivalent whip requires a high enough fame purchasing limit to cover the whole 8,301 gp market price.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

nosig wrote:
not that I've done it... but I have a buddy that has a Darkwood Long Comp. Bow (Str. 16) that he got for his first 2PP and he's wondering when he can enchant it.

I would argue that after you make that bow a +2, the cost of the item would become 8000 + the cost of that kind of bow + masterwork cost. The new value essentially overrides the fact that, at one point in the past, a lesser form of it was given to that character by their faction. You would, however, only pay 8000 to upgrade it.

Qadira ***

WalterGM wrote:
nosig wrote:
not that I've done it... but I have a buddy that has a Darkwood Long Comp. Bow (Str. 16) that he got for his first 2PP and he's wondering when he can enchant it.
I would argue that after you make that bow a +2, the cost of the item would become 8000 + the cost of that kind of bow + masterwork cost. The new value essentially overrides the fact that, at one point in the past, a lesser form of it was given to that character by their faction. You would, however, only pay 8000 to upgrade it.

So, when a players says to you as a judge "I want to sell this bow" and he get's half price... would he get half of 8000 gp or half of 8730 gp?

Qadira ***** Venture-Lieutenant, New Jersey—West Berlin aka Drizzt1080

nosig wrote:
So, when a players says to you as a judge "I want to sell this bow" and he get's half price... would he get half of 8000 gp or half of 8730 gp?

The way the rules are worded you can upgrade an item purchased with PP, but you can’t sell one.

Andoran ***

Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
nosig wrote:
So, when a players says to you as a judge "I want to sell this bow" and he get's half price... would he get half of 8000 gp or half of 8730 gp?
The way the rules are worded you can upgrade an item purchased with PP, but you can’t sell one.

Actually, it doesn't say you can't sell it, just that it has a value of 0 gp.

So, that +2 composite darkwood (Str +3) longbow, which had the base longbow purchased with PP, would have a resale value of 4,0000 gp, half of the money spent on it.

At least, for my PC who has the equivalent item (same longbow, +1, Seeking for enhancements), that would be how I would handle it, if, for some reason, he had to sell it off to get money for a Raise Dead or some such.

Equally, for upgrading purposes, the Fame needed would be the Fame required for the actual market cost, as if PP had not been used in the initial item acquisition (so, enough fame to purchase an item worth 8,730, or 18,730 for upgrading to +3)


Callarek,

You may want to use a different example, since a composite bow can no longer have it's strength rating upgraded.

Page 19 of the current Guide:

Quote:
A mundane item can not be upgraded to masterwork, nor can non-magical aspects of equipment be upgraded (such as the strength rating on a composite bow).

Andoran ***

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:

Callarek,

You may want to use a different example, since a composite bow can no longer have it's strength rating upgraded.

Page 19 of the current Guide:

Quote:
A mundane item can not be upgraded to masterwork, nor can non-magical aspects of equipment be upgraded (such as the strength rating on a composite bow).

Since I was not referring to upgrading the strength rating, but the magical enhancement, maybe you should take a step back and look at the monetary values cited, with a 10,000 gp difference, that being the difference between a +2 enhanced weapon and a +3 enhanced weapon, not the 100 gp difference for a step in Strength rating....

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ill_Made_Knight wrote:
Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is fame exactly?

Fame, fame, what you like is in the limo.

Fame, fame. What you get is no tomorrow.
Fame... FAME. What you need you have to borrow.
Fame.

*hand claps*
*spin with microphone*


Maybe you should be more careful with your descriptions, as saying "base longbow purchased with PP" makes it sound like you bought the bow with PP and then added the Strength bonuses later. But maybe my definition of "base" and others is different.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Maybe you should be more careful with your descriptions, as saying "base longbow purchased with PP" makes it sound like you bought the bow with PP and then added the Strength bonuses later. But maybe my definition of "base" and others is different.

Well, a masterwork composite longbow with a +3 STR rating costs 700gp, so I imagine that's what people are getting with their 2PP, rather than spending the same 2PP on a lesser bow and then trying to shell out gold until they reach the same point. ;)

Qadira ***** Venture-Lieutenant, New Jersey—West Berlin aka Drizzt1080

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Callarek wrote:
Actually, it doesn't say you can't sell it, just that it has a value of 0 gp.

Actually if you look at the bottom of table 5-4. Note 3 or *** (depending on which version of the OP Guide) says - Once per session, you can acquire any single item of this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate PP. Items purchased this way are worth 0gp and cannot be sold.

Andoran ***

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Maybe you should be more careful with your descriptions, as saying "base longbow purchased with PP" makes it sound like you bought the bow with PP and then added the Strength bonuses later. But maybe my definition of "base" and others is different.

Hmm. To me, base <weapon> refers to the non-magical portion of a magical weapon, the masterwork <weapon> along with any additional "base" non-magical enhancements.

That would include the Strength bonus for composite bows, and any special materials used in building the base weapon.

So, to me at least, a base weapon could be any of the following:
Longsword
Cold iron morningstar
Masterwork darkwood composite (Str +3) longbow
Silversheen fauchard
Adamantine dwarven battleaxe

Similarly, for me, base armor would be the type and material of the pre-enhanced armor:
Studded leather
Masterwork padded armor
Mithril chain shirt
Adamantine plate mail
Dragonhide breastplate

@Vinyc:
Thanks for catching that. Makes me happier that I have the necessities for my archer to get raised set aside...

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