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[Kingmaker Rules Expansion] Business Rules, or, "So you want to own the world?"


Kingmaker


Bit of background before my download; this is a rules expansion for the rules found in the Kingmaker Adventure, "Rivers Run Red." It is designed to allow a PC(s) to own and operate a business instead of a full kingdom. These rules were developed because I got tired of trying to micromanage one of my Player's attempts to run a business using only the rules provided in the Core Rulebook; they took up way too much time and I had to put hard caps on everything he did (this especially became problematic when the PCs would essentially skip weeks for Kingmaker, all the while he'd say "I use all my extract slots for the day to craft potions to sell."

Here's the document; it's saved in PDF. Please leave all questions, comments, critiques, and suggestions here. I truly want to hear them, and I check back on these sorts of posts fairly often, so if you do leave a comment, expect for me to get back to you on it shortly!

EDIT: Fixed the link.


Oh, it appears I've been moved! Oh well ...

Anyway, just updated the Document. Here's a listing:


  • Fixed some terminology through the document; for example changed older terminology (like 'assets') to the correct terminology ('facilities').
  • Slavery is hip! A business using a slave workforce halves the penalties associated with High wages but doubles the Consumption increase of maintenance.
  • Altered wage levels, using Average as a baseline (+0 / +0).

The only real thing I am brainstorming for these rules right now is a system for wages for the Leadership roles (probably the PCs).


That is pretty much exactly the sort of thing I was looking for for my Lawful Evil character.

Have you playtested or theorycrafted with it much?

Grand Lodge

Golden-Esque wrote:

Oh, it appears I've been moved! Oh well ...

Anyway, just updated the Document. Here's a listing:


  • Fixed some terminology through the document; for example changed older terminology (like 'assets') to the correct terminology ('facilities').
  • Slavery is hip! A business using a slave workforce halves the penalties associated with High wages but doubles the Consumption increase of maintenance.
  • Altered wage levels, using Average as a baseline (+0 / +0).

The only real thing I am brainstorming for these rules right now is a system for wages for the Leadership roles (probably the PCs).

How long have you been running with this? Has it worked pretty well? Great work.


New Update:


  • Added an expanded explanation and rules mechanics for Shares. Wages for PCs are based on Shares as well.

I am currently playing with the idea of allowing the Owner to use any of their Mental Scores to run the business. Thoughts?

@Shan: That's funny; the player I am building this for is Lawful Evil as well. Must be a tyrannical thing. :)

We haven't gotten to play with the rules yet (we'll be trying them out next week), but Theorycrafting seems fairly solid. There is potential room for abuse with the Share selling / buying system, however. As a GM, I would say it's my duty to prevent such misuse with in-game consequences for mass share hording and selling.

@PJ: We haven't run it yet. That's why I originally put it in the Homebrewed forum; it's a little new for my tastes to be in the Kingmaker bin, but the great mods hath spoken :). It's been a system I've been tinkering with since Christmas, and I will be debuting it next week. Until then, I am still running Theorycraft tests and tweaking wording, values, etc..


It's not always an evil thing. ;P

My character in Kingmaker is a true neutral cleric of Abadar. I have the nobility domain and it gave me Leadership for free at level 8. Our group made it to level 11 before the campaign was put on the back burner as one of our groups many DMs was getting burnt out. I've been trying to find rules on running a business for a while to see what could be capable of accomplishing. I'm merely doing this because I have an idea for a golem crafting cohort that I would like to use to beef up our kingdom. My character has delusions of grandeur for turning the kingdom into a magical epicenter. I've envisioned things like permanent teleportation circles giving us access to the entire world. Creating airships for trade routes. A million other ideas but it could be a while before we get back to that campaign.

One of my first ideas for drawing in followers was to offer benefits. I wanted to make several items that could cast heroes feast each day for morale and providing food for their families. Also all the benefits that come with the spell that help a crafter.

Thanks for the .pdf. Just gotta get the other DMs to check it out.


@Khrysaor: Indeed, it's most certainly not always an Evil thing to want to run a business, and I'm sorry if I made it sound like I thought it was. So far, out of the four people (my player included) who have shown interest in the rules set, I know two of them ARE Lawful Evil characters, however, so it was an amusing thing to note (especially since this player is the person who pushed so hard for specific bonuses associated with workforce type, namely slavery.)

For now, I'm waiting on some feedback after people read it through. If I don't get any more by then, I'll update this thread with some notes about the Business rules after I run them either this Tuesday (the 16th) or the next (the 23rd).


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I've only read them so far, but I predict that at least one of my current players will step down his role on the high council to start his own mega-corp in the near future.
One thing that I'd add is making the Kingdom have more effect on the business. Such as, A high taxation edict cutting into profits, or good stability making caravans more successful.
I don't have the books with me right now, for the buildings did you just copy paste the kingdom stats or is there a some sort of formula in play here?
Have you given any thought to converting any of the Hex improvement stuff from the book of the river nations?
Love what you have so far can't wait to see what you do next.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Looks interesting. How do you incorporate this into a Kingmaker campaign?


@Zaister: The business rules are designed to be their own beast. I'd say give your PC enough BP to build a center (aka a Guild Hall) and you're already playing.

@Aquateenflayer: The Business rules work with the Kingdom rules, but only slightly. Buildings a business constructs from scratch grant the kingdom bonuses, and a business can buy out existing buildings that the kingdom erects. Having the kingdom's taxation affect the business is not a bad idea at all; what I will probably do is have the business suffer a minor Consumption increase based on taxation level. I did stay away from adding many little intricate rules such as the Stability on caravans idea, however, because I really don't like the idea of needless complexities being born from their interactions. Better to have them meet only when neccessary to avoid one tiny little rule that could screw a player over too much.

I most certainly did take the building's values straight from 'Rivers Run Red,' however; the rules were actually directly based from the Kingdom rules, and while names and terms are changed frequently, you can draw many analogs between businesses and kingdoms; especially if you look at leadership rules.

I don't own the Book of the River Nations, so no, I have given absolutely no thought to using anything from that book. Without knowing anything beyond what you mentioned about Hex Improvement rules, however, I can say that the system was designed to interact with the concept of Hexes very sparingly; you should be able to build a big, localized Mom-and-Pop business just as easily as a sprawling "CVS-at-every-intersection" business with little to no noticeable penalties.

I'm glad people are enjoying this one; I was afraid that there wouldn't be any demand for business-running rules!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I got a small critique.
The control Dc is defined clearly on the first page but is referenced to as command dc for the rest of the document. Didn't even notice it myself until one of my players asked me what the command dc is.


Aquateenflayer wrote:

I got a small critique.

The control Dc is defined clearly on the first page but is referenced to as command dc for the rest of the document. Didn't even notice it myself until one of my players asked me what the command dc is.

Darn! That's one of the downsides of mass copy / paste I suppose. That was actually a problem in the original Kingmakers rules as well if I recall correctly, and the basic "phase" layout is directly imported from those rules.

Regardless, thanks for pointing it out! The document has been corrected. :D

As for my official playtests, they got pushed back to this Tuesday, as my business player had to go out of town on a business trip last week. So bare with me, and if anyone else uses them in a game, please feel free to report your finds back here.

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