Critique fighter (archer)

[jacetms87]

This will be my first archer chracter, and I really want to see what the class is capable of.

The build out I have so far is

level 1 rapid, persise, point blank shot
level 2 deadly aim
level 3 weapon focus (composite longbow)
level 4 weapon specilization (composite longbow)
level 5
level 6 many shot

This is as far as I have gotten the stats are

STR 14
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

Any one have any advice?

[Kahn Zordlon]

Hi,
Archers are fun and can be very effective. Nothing like staying out of combat too.

That said, the stats look pretty good. I wouldn't have your wisdom too low though as fighters are a favorite target for will saves. pb shot, presise and rapid are solid choices for your first 3 feats. Depending on the campaign your DM runs and how hard the monsters are to hit. Same thing with deadly aim, it's good, but again will minus your attack. I'd play out your first level before deciding on your level 2 feat.

[james maissen]

jacetms87 wrote:

This is as far as I have gotten the stats are

STR 14
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

Any one have any advice?

You're building a human (from the 3 starting feats), so 10INT is giving you 3skills and possibly a 4th via favored class.

A 7 INT would give you 2 skills, possible a 3rd via favored class.

For those 4 points you could raise your WIS, and thus your WILL save (and other things).

Likewise I would lower the CHA to 7 and go with:

STR 14
INT 07
WIS 14
DEX 19
CON 14
CHA 07

And then bump DEX at each level.

As an archer you will be feat tied, even as a human fighter. So you do want to plan them out ahead of time. You can always change your mind, but you really have to have a default plan.

For 5th level I would suggest that IRON WILL be your default.

As the other poster said archers draw WILL saves like wizards draw melee attacks, and the enemy is going to find it easier to give you WILL saves than melee with the wizard.

-James

[jacetms87]

Any advice byond level 6? I was thinking about clusterd shot then the combat reflexes, snap shot, improved snap shot line.

[Halfling Barbarian]

Taking Iron will at 5th level helps with the will save disparity. If your game uses traits take conspiracy hunter (perception) from council of theives to give it a + 1 and make it a class skill. Looking for work from second darkness. Your second trait should be heirloom weapon from the adventurers armory. It gives you a +1 trait bonus to attack roles with that weapon, a +1 to hit for it being masterwork, and there isn't any restriction in taking a composite longbow up to your strength.

I don't really agree with dropping your intelligence unless you plan on raising strength, however dropping your cha to 8 and increasing your will to 12 shores up that will save enough to be more than playable against those squishy magic users. If these are rolled stats you should still be ok with just getting iron will, although you may want it at level 3 instead...

[Zephyre Al'dran]

Good choices. Clustered shot as soon as possible, as between 5-6 you will start seeing DR that is better than just magic. Some of this you'll be able to handle with variety metal arrows, but DR/ Alignment will start to be a problem as will adamantine.
Consider adding Manyshot in there as well.

[Halfling Barbarian]

Make sure you take snap shot before combat reflexes, and clustered shot is a great addition at 7th or 8th level.

Also, are you using the archer archtype from the APG? It adds a really nice ability in trick shot and if you plan on staying straight archer you won't need to worry so much about the armor training or other weapon groups. I like having the option for ranged combat manuevers.

While you're looking there, check out weapon blanches(cheap way for overcoming silver and adamantine DR), and blunt arrows. I would use all cold iron arrows the minute it becomes fiscally responsible.

Also, I seem to have misread heirloom weapon. I apologize, I was working off of memory. You pay a base cost for a masterwork weapon. You can forgo the trait bonus on attacks to go with indomitable faith instead, for another +1 on will saves.

[jacetms87]

I was thinking

lvl 6 many shot
lvl 7 clusterd shot
lvl 8 snap shot
lvl 9 combat reflexes
lvl 10 improved snap shot

[Halfling Barbarian]

Your build looks solid.

[jacetms87]

Does any one know if you take the archer archetype if gloves of dueling weapon traing feature still works RAW it would appear it would not.

Gloves state.

" These supple leather gloves grant the wearer gains a +4 bonus to his CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder his wielded weapons, and effects that cause him to lose his grip on his weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn't drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, his weapon training bonus increases by +2."

Archer arcetype states
"Expert Archer (Ex): At 5th level, an archer gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with bows. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 5th. This ability replaces weapon training 1."

It would seem it would not.

[Halfling Barbarian]

Rules as written it does not grant the extra +2. However +4 is still a nice bonus, and you won't often have to face sunder and disarm when you fight from a distance.

[I'M INCREDIBLE!]

You are correct about the Gloves of Dueling and the Archer fighter. Though you could make the case that it applies to the Weapon Master archetype. If you're going to go archetypes, I'd say Mobile Fighter or Weapon Master.

I'd recommend picking up Point Blank Master at Level 5, so you can still full-attack adjacent foes without moving. I'd also swap Combat Reflexes and Improved Snap Shot, as you'll get more out of it.

[Axebeard]

As an archer you'll have high dexterity, and be able to make amazing use of armor training, as chain shirt+high dex with armor training means a really nice armor class. That's worth more, in my book, than tripping someone with an arrow at a -4 to the roll, when you're already shooting through cover and everything.

I don't think that the snap shot line will grant you as many attacks as you might expect. Cover breaks attacks of opportunity, and if there are allies between you and the monsters (which there most likely will be), you won't get the shots you'd like. I'd take feats that will boost your full attacks before I took the snap shot line. Plus, once something closes with you, snap shot won't be useful anymore as you'll five foot back to shoot, and the monster will five foot in, or if you have point blank master, you'll just stand there and plug him with arrows. And just how many full attacks can a monster survive from an archer, anyways? Not many. Like, 1 or 2, generally. I would anticipate the snap shot line granting you one arrow or less every combat, on average.

So here's my suggestion:

Go vanilla fighter

1) Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
2) Deadly Aim
3) Weapon Focus (longbow)
4) Weapon Specialization (longbow)
5) Iron Will
6) Manyshot
7) Clustered Shot
8) Improved Critical (Longbow)
9) Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow)
10) Point Blank Master
11) Improved Precise Shot
12) Greater Weapon Specialization
13) Improved Iron Will

The above is just a suggestion, though. Look at how things are working and change based on that. Lots of time pinned against walls? Point Blank Master earlier.

[Argus The Slayer]

I would go Weapon Master: the extra (earlier) Weapon Training bonuses and the bonuses to CMD Vs Sunder and Disarm (two maneuvers that are an archer's bane). Armor training is cool, but less cool when you are wearing light armor. Look for Celestial Armor as you level up.

My suggestions:

1) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
2) Weapon Focus
3) Deadly Aim; WT: +1/+1
4) Weapon Specialization (~16PA, 18 = < 5,250)
5) Point Blank Master
6) Manyshot
7) Snap Shot; WT: +2/+2 (WT)
8) Greater Weapon Focus
9) Improved Snap Shot
10) Combat Reflexes
11) Improved Precise Shot +3/+3 (WT)
12) Greater Weapon Specialization

[Argus The Slayer]

One more thing: in order to get all of the juicy archery feats stuffed into the build AND get Snap Shot/Improved Snap Shot/Combat Reflexes, you'll have to not take (or put off till later) Iron Will. That means that you'll have to focus on upgrading your resistance bonuses to saving throws whenever you can. If you feel that you still need Iron Will, the earliest level that I can see where you can take it wold be level 8, n place of Greater Weapon Focus, which would likely to pushed out to level 12. Improved Snap Shot is worth focusing on at level 9 (earliest it can be taken), especially when combined with Point Blank Master (taken early) and Combat Reflexes (taken at level 10).