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Oterisk's Guide to the Dragon Disciple


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@ Aceswylde
For Half-Orc you can get a bite with the Tusked Trait out of Orcs of Golarion. They have 3 ways to get the same bite.

@AndIMustMask: Nice Idea.

Quandary wrote:

I don't think that works, you're selecting a normally arcane Wiz/Sorc spell, but it's becoming one of your (oracle) spells known.

Either that becomes a divine oracle spell, or you will be unable to cast it with your oracle slots,

Damn, this sounds right. But I am still not 100% sure.


Hey so I've read the guide and all the comment but unless I'm blind no ones talked about a draconic bloodline sorcerer with dragon disciple as a dip to give the armour boost, claw attacks/bite and for added dragonishness for rp, im currently thinking of doing so as our campaign is very rp focused. Looking to play fire blaster/ claws/ bite when in close, is it even worth dipping dd or is it better just to go whole hog with it? Cheers

The Sorcerer 12/Dragon Disciple 8 build probably plays pretty close to the style of sorcerer you want. As far as dipping goes, you probably should get 4, 8, or 10 levels of Dragon Disciple, since after you've already suffered the lost progression at level 1 and 5, the next three levels just add to what you'd have gotten for continuing as a sorcerer anyway.

Cheers it was the amount of levels to take that had me confused more than anything

Love the guide although I am sometimes confused about all the non-Core stuff in there (fairly new at this). Our group is core only and our GM has houseruled that Quicken Spell Feat is a no no for Sorcerers and Bards (spontaneous casters).
Any suggestions for Core only DD builds. I really like the idea of maxing out DD for FotD2 and Wings.

Again great guide.


Strong Jaw off the Ranger spell list is absolutely wonderful for those going the natural attacks DD route. Treats you as 2 size categories larger in terms of damage.

I don't see why you need to take DD levels for 'roleplay'.
So it boosts your Nat Armor. How does your exact Nat Armor score affect roleplay? It doesn't.
So it adds a bite to your claws. You can get a bite other ways,
and you just 'fluff' yourself has having fangs even if mechanically it isn't a bite attack.


Posting my build for your viewing pleasure:

Half-Orc Crossblooded (Draconic/Orc) Sorc 3/Barb 2/DD 2
15-Point Buy
Str: 16 (Str +2 from DD)
Dex: 12
Con: 13
Int: 12
Wis: 7
Cha: 18 (Half-Orc Bonus and attribute increase at lvl 4)

Took the Sacred Tattoo racial trait for the +1 to all saves
Take Lesser Fiend Totem for your rage power

Feats: Eschew Materials, Arcane Strike, Toughness, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Improved Natural Weapon (Claws)

This was one of the sweet spots of the build. Buff with Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person, Claws, Bite, Rage, and Arcane Strike. On a Full-Round attack, you do:
2 Claws +9 (1d8+7)
Bite +9 (1d8+10)
Gore +9 (2d6+7)

Throw in Power Attack for added damage shenanigans. Make sure you throw on Mage Armor before wading into combat.

Now on the other side, cast a Burning Hands and it looks something like this:
Burning Hands 4d4+8 DC 15 Ref

The Ref save is kinda low, but still, you have the possibility of hitting 6 enemies at once for decent damage even on a save.

If you want to improve your saves. You can use potions of bestow grace if the character is good aligned. Does wonders for my Pitborn Barb 3/Sorc 2/DD 5.

lawful good. 1 round/level.


Eirwulf wrote:
If you want to improve your saves. You can use potions of bestow grace if the character is good aligned. Does wonders for my Pitborn Barb 3/Sorc 2/DD 5.

Brilliant! I've added a few of these potions to my bag of tricks.

Wow, that is nice...
I'd even say it should be a staple for Oracles/Rage Prophets, especially Samsarans who can add that spell to their Oracle list.
Pretty much any Sorceror/Bard/Ninja/ETC(CHA-based) should like Potions of that at higher levels as well.

Has anybody looked at the cabalist magus archetype as a potential base for a dragon disciple?

You can get into DD and have a pure class caster base that also has the sorcerer dragon bloodline starting at level 7, so you can stick with full bloodline progression the whole way through.

You get to cast in medium armor at magus 7 and even heavy if you take magus to 13. Personally I would do magus12/DD8 to only lose 2 caster levels and keep 15 BAB

You keep int as your primary casting stat

You also get spell combat and spellstrike. With certain touch spells that have multiple charges you can take a full attack with your sword as well as a claw and bite attack with your offhand and bite as well.

Only drawback as I see it is the magus relies a lot on metamagic for some of their damage output and you cant use the longer casting time from spontaneous casting with spell combat.

isnt that 3rd party though?

edit: to clarify, i dont mean to imply that being 3pp makes it bad, just that some folks might not have access to it.

also im unsure as to whether cabalist works off of cha or in, as it doesnt really clarify in the AT's page (one could argue that since it's taking the bard progression it also runs off of cha, but the other side could say that it only gets the spells known/gains the same as a bard, not changing it's casting stat).

AndIMustMask wrote:

isnt that 3rd party though?

edit: to clarify, i dont mean to imply that being 3pp makes it bad, just that some folks might not have access to it.

also im unsure as to whether cabalist works off of cha or in, as it doesnt really clarify in the AT's page (one could argue that since it's taking the bard progression it also runs off of cha, but the other side could say that it only gets the spells known/gains the same as a bard, not changing it's casting stat).

I would read it as int because it doesnt say it changes it. Shouldn't matter other than for dragon claws/day.


Thought breath weapon DC was cha based too?


Has anyone looked into what Mythic path and abilities compliment a DD build?

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey all, after taking a break from the boards for a few months, I decided to do a quick update of the guide including some racial options and concerning the new FAQ that allows Spell Like Abilities to allow one to qualify for prerequisites for Prestige classes. I don't do an extensive treatment of the subject, but it does alter things somewhat as far as the color ratings are concerned.

In short, full intelligence casting classes are improved by this because of the DD's bonus spellcasting levels work for any arcane class, not just the spontaneous ones. Magus becomes much more workable and Wizards who are going Eldrich Knight have a good 4-8 level dip going for them without jumping into any sorcerer levels.

Full BAB classes are boosted by it too, for a 4 level dip in DD without having to take a level of Sorcerer to start can give them a +4 to Str, a +3 to NA and good HP progression, Emergency Natural Weapons and a breath weapon for swarms. All in all, not a bad dip.

Eventually, I plan to make an update to the Mythic path, but it's hard to say if I'll have time. I've just managed to update for the ARG, so you can see how far behind I already am. Perhaps after the holidays, but I'm not making any promises.

Chow for now, and happy hunting.

Good to see you back, Osterik and thanks again for all your fine work.

The SLA changes make some pretty legit builds possible now, that's for sure.

Scaled Disciple can be obtained by Humans, Half-Elfs, Half-Orcs, Aasimar (with Scion of Humanity) and any future races that count as "human" via Racial Heritage (Kobold).

Kobold is easily the most ridiculous choice for that feat though. The other racial feats are for outsiders (who can't be picked via RH), are mostly cultural (so they make sense) or don't work for you because they require/interact with racial abilities, but lots of Kobold feats work off their anatomy, so you can gain energy resitance from the scales you don't have and can attack with the tail you also don't have.

Someday, someday people will spell my name correctly. But, you know, I think that if it didn't happen, I would think I was in the wrong place...

Very Cool Guide.

However; it was my understanding that Natural Armor bonus' do not Stack unless otherwise noted.

Looking at the races; any race with a natural armor bonus would just overlap the NA granted by the Draconic Bloodline. The NA granted in the Dragon Disciple Prestige class specifically states that it stacks with existing bonus'.


Trying to get some feedback on feat/trait selection for PFS character. I'm going for the beast caster type, so trying to melee with some touch spells being cast for attacks.

What are some good traits?

What are some good feats?

Is cross Blooded worth it?

Is Eldridge Heritage worth it?

Demon-Spawn Tiefling Paladin 4/ Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple XX
DragonFiend of Vengeance
Oaths of Vengeance, Wyrms, Fiends
NOTE: Taking the Oaths for Flavor only, cannot take them functionally by RAW
Possible Sacred Servant of Sarenrae w/ Sun (Light sub) Domain
NOTE: I picked this deity mostly out of her domain of redemption and went w/ the Sacred Servant as she is my savior. Trying to go with Sun (Light) mostly for Faerie Fire Spell.
(Green or Black) Dragon Blood Line
NOTE: While I am aware that area effects are better than lines, I think the black's CE alignment meshes well with the Demon's CE and the character polarized rebellion.
Eldridge Heritage (Arcane) after bonus DD Feat? Not sure if it's worth picking up.

STR 15 +2 17
DEX 12 12
CON 12 12
INT 12 -2 10
WIS 10 10
CHA 15 +2 17

Pal 1st: Know (Arcana), Know (Religion)
Pal 2nd: Know (Arcana), Know (Religion)
Pal 3rd: Know (Arcana), Know (Religion)
Pal 4th: Know (Arcana), Spellcraft
Sorc 5th: Know (Religion), Perception
DD 6th: Know (Arcana), Perception
DD 7th: Know (Religion), Perception
DD 8th: Know (Arcana), Perception
DD 9th: Know (Religion), Perception
DD 10th:Know (Arcana), Perception
DD 11th:Know (Religion), Perception
DD 12th:Know (Arcana), Perception

Pal 1st: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil (1/Day)
Pal 2nd: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Pal 3rd: Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy
Pal 4th: Channel Wrath (OoV), Spells, Sun (Light) Domain (SacServ)
Sorc 5th: Draconic Bloodline Arcana, Dragon Claws
DD 6th: Blood of Dragons, Natural Armor +1
DD 7th: Abil Boost (+2STR), Blood Feat (Toughness), Dragon Bite
Sorc3: Dragon Resistances (5 acid, +1 Natural Armor)
DD 8th: Breath Weapon
DD 9th: Abil Boost (+2STR) Natural Armor +1
Sorc5: Claws = Magic
DD 10th: Blindsense 30ft, Bloodline Feat ()
DD 11th: Abil Boost (+2CON)
Sorc7: Claws Inc a Damage Step
DD 12th: Dragon Form 1/day, Natural Armor Inc

Draconic Bonus Feats: Blind-Fight , Great Fortitude , Improved Initiative , Power Attack , Quicken Spell , Skill Focus (Fly), Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]), Toughness .

Revisiting this awesome guide last night and saw the "Anything?-" entry under inevitables. Can anybody point me to the ruling you guys are mentioning and possibly explain why any non caster character can qualify now?


Having just finished playing a Dragon Disciple from levels 2 to 16, I want to say many thanks for this guide - it was great help.

I did notice one thing that may be a mistake - In the section regarding taking two levels of ranger with feral combat training. The text of feral combat training indicates that you choose ONE of your natural attacks to apply the feats effects to. This means that by RAW, you not only need to take weapon focus for each natural weapon, but you would also need to take Feral Weapon Training for each one - if your DM will allow it. (Many feats have a line in the "special" section which states that you can take them multiple times and thus many DMs interpret the lack of such text to mean that the feat can only be taken once.)

guide text:
2 levels of Ranger, Aspect of the Beast: This may not seem like more than permanent claws that are d4 instead of d6. This is blue because it is permanent, but also because it starts off a feat chain that is really nice. Stack your two levels of Ranger with Two levels of MoMS or Unarmed Fighter and get after the first two Dragon Style feats coupled with Feral Combat Training. This combo can give you double Strength bonuses on your first claw attack and an additional ½ your Strength bonus on your other claw. Your Dragon bite? Get Weapon Focus for it and you can double your Str bonus for that. Your tail slap when you do FotD2? Get Weapon Focus and you can double the Strength bonus. Note, you need to take weapon focus for every type of natural weapon you want to use Dragon Style with, so just be warned.

feral combat training:
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

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