Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Oterisk's Guide to the Dragon Disciple


Advice

201 to 243 of 243 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Qadira

@ Aceswylde
For Half-Orc you can get a bite with the Tusked Trait out of Orcs of Golarion. They have 3 ways to get the same bite.


@AndIMustMask: Nice Idea.

Quandary wrote:

I don't think that works, you're selecting a normally arcane Wiz/Sorc spell, but it's becoming one of your (oracle) spells known.

Either that becomes a divine oracle spell, or you will be unable to cast it with your oracle slots,

Damn, this sounds right. But I am still not 100% sure.

:-(


Hey so I've read the guide and all the comment but unless I'm blind no ones talked about a draconic bloodline sorcerer with dragon disciple as a dip to give the armour boost, claw attacks/bite and for added dragonishness for rp, im currently thinking of doing so as our campaign is very rp focused. Looking to play fire blaster/ claws/ bite when in close, is it even worth dipping dd or is it better just to go whole hog with it? Cheers


The Sorcerer 12/Dragon Disciple 8 build probably plays pretty close to the style of sorcerer you want. As far as dipping goes, you probably should get 4, 8, or 10 levels of Dragon Disciple, since after you've already suffered the lost progression at level 1 and 5, the next three levels just add to what you'd have gotten for continuing as a sorcerer anyway.


Cheers it was the amount of levels to take that had me confused more than anything


Love the guide although I am sometimes confused about all the non-Core stuff in there (fairly new at this). Our group is core only and our GM has houseruled that Quicken Spell Feat is a no no for Sorcerers and Bards (spontaneous casters).
Any suggestions for Core only DD builds. I really like the idea of maxing out DD for FotD2 and Wings.

Again great guide.

Taldor

Strong Jaw off the Ranger spell list is absolutely wonderful for those going the natural attacks DD route. Treats you as 2 size categories larger in terms of damage.


I don't see why you need to take DD levels for 'roleplay'.
So it boosts your Nat Armor. How does your exact Nat Armor score affect roleplay? It doesn't.
So it adds a bite to your claws. You can get a bite other ways,
and you just 'fluff' yourself has having fangs even if mechanically it isn't a bite attack.

Taldor

Posting my build for your viewing pleasure:

Half-Orc Crossblooded (Draconic/Orc) Sorc 3/Barb 2/DD 2
15-Point Buy
Str: 16 (Str +2 from DD)
Dex: 12
Con: 13
Int: 12
Wis: 7
Cha: 18 (Half-Orc Bonus and attribute increase at lvl 4)

Took the Sacred Tattoo racial trait for the +1 to all saves
Take Lesser Fiend Totem for your rage power

Feats: Eschew Materials, Arcane Strike, Toughness, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Improved Natural Weapon (Claws)

This was one of the sweet spots of the build. Buff with Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person, Claws, Bite, Rage, and Arcane Strike. On a Full-Round attack, you do:
2 Claws +9 (1d8+7)
Bite +9 (1d8+10)
Gore +9 (2d6+7)

Throw in Power Attack for added damage shenanigans. Make sure you throw on Mage Armor before wading into combat.

Now on the other side, cast a Burning Hands and it looks something like this:
Burning Hands 4d4+8 DC 15 Ref

The Ref save is kinda low, but still, you have the possibility of hitting 6 enemies at once for decent damage even on a save.


If you want to improve your saves. You can use potions of bestow grace if the character is good aligned. Does wonders for my Pitborn Barb 3/Sorc 2/DD 5.


lawful good. 1 round/level.

Taldor

Eirwulf wrote:
If you want to improve your saves. You can use potions of bestow grace if the character is good aligned. Does wonders for my Pitborn Barb 3/Sorc 2/DD 5.

Brilliant! I've added a few of these potions to my bag of tricks.


Wow, that is nice...
I'd even say it should be a staple for Oracles/Rage Prophets, especially Samsarans who can add that spell to their Oracle list.
Pretty much any Sorceror/Bard/Ninja/ETC(CHA-based) should like Potions of that at higher levels as well.


Has anybody looked at the cabalist magus archetype as a potential base for a dragon disciple?

You can get into DD and have a pure class caster base that also has the sorcerer dragon bloodline starting at level 7, so you can stick with full bloodline progression the whole way through.

You get to cast in medium armor at magus 7 and even heavy if you take magus to 13. Personally I would do magus12/DD8 to only lose 2 caster levels and keep 15 BAB

You keep int as your primary casting stat

You also get spell combat and spellstrike. With certain touch spells that have multiple charges you can take a full attack with your sword as well as a claw and bite attack with your offhand and bite as well.

Only drawback as I see it is the magus relies a lot on metamagic for some of their damage output and you cant use the longer casting time from spontaneous casting with spell combat.


isnt that 3rd party though?

edit: to clarify, i dont mean to imply that being 3pp makes it bad, just that some folks might not have access to it.

also im unsure as to whether cabalist works off of cha or in, as it doesnt really clarify in the AT's page (one could argue that since it's taking the bard progression it also runs off of cha, but the other side could say that it only gets the spells known/gains the same as a bard, not changing it's casting stat).


AndIMustMask wrote:

isnt that 3rd party though?

edit: to clarify, i dont mean to imply that being 3pp makes it bad, just that some folks might not have access to it.

also im unsure as to whether cabalist works off of cha or in, as it doesnt really clarify in the AT's page (one could argue that since it's taking the bard progression it also runs off of cha, but the other side could say that it only gets the spells known/gains the same as a bard, not changing it's casting stat).

I would read it as int because it doesnt say it changes it. Shouldn't matter other than for dragon claws/day.

Taldor

Thought breath weapon DC was cha based too?

Taldor

Has anyone looked into what Mythic path and abilities compliment a DD build?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey all, after taking a break from the boards for a few months, I decided to do a quick update of the guide including some racial options and concerning the new FAQ that allows Spell Like Abilities to allow one to qualify for prerequisites for Prestige classes. I don't do an extensive treatment of the subject, but it does alter things somewhat as far as the color ratings are concerned.

In short, full intelligence casting classes are improved by this because of the DD's bonus spellcasting levels work for any arcane class, not just the spontaneous ones. Magus becomes much more workable and Wizards who are going Eldrich Knight have a good 4-8 level dip going for them without jumping into any sorcerer levels.

Full BAB classes are boosted by it too, for a 4 level dip in DD without having to take a level of Sorcerer to start can give them a +4 to Str, a +3 to NA and good HP progression, Emergency Natural Weapons and a breath weapon for swarms. All in all, not a bad dip.

Eventually, I plan to make an update to the Mythic path, but it's hard to say if I'll have time. I've just managed to update for the ARG, so you can see how far behind I already am. Perhaps after the holidays, but I'm not making any promises.

Chow for now, and happy hunting.


Good to see you back, Osterik and thanks again for all your fine work.

The SLA changes make some pretty legit builds possible now, that's for sure.


Scaled Disciple can be obtained by Humans, Half-Elfs, Half-Orcs, Aasimar (with Scion of Humanity) and any future races that count as "human" via Racial Heritage (Kobold).

Kobold is easily the most ridiculous choice for that feat though. The other racial feats are for outsiders (who can't be picked via RH), are mostly cultural (so they make sense) or don't work for you because they require/interact with racial abilities, but lots of Kobold feats work off their anatomy, so you can gain energy resitance from the scales you don't have and can attack with the tail you also don't have.


Someday, someday people will spell my name correctly. But, you know, I think that if it didn't happen, I would think I was in the wrong place...


Very Cool Guide.

However; it was my understanding that Natural Armor bonus' do not Stack unless otherwise noted.

Looking at the races; any race with a natural armor bonus would just overlap the NA granted by the Draconic Bloodline. The NA granted in the Dragon Disciple Prestige class specifically states that it stacks with existing bonus'.

Qadira

Trying to get some feedback on feat/trait selection for PFS character. I'm going for the beast caster type, so trying to melee with some touch spells being cast for attacks.

What are some good traits?

What are some good feats?

Is cross Blooded worth it?

Is Eldridge Heritage worth it?

Build:
Demon-Spawn Tiefling Paladin 4/ Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple XX
DragonFiend of Vengeance
Paladin
Oaths of Vengeance, Wyrms, Fiends
NOTE: Taking the Oaths for Flavor only, cannot take them functionally by RAW
Possible Sacred Servant of Sarenrae w/ Sun (Light sub) Domain
NOTE: I picked this deity mostly out of her domain of redemption and went w/ the Sacred Servant as she is my savior. Trying to go with Sun (Light) mostly for Faerie Fire Spell.
Sorcerer
(Green or Black) Dragon Blood Line
NOTE: While I am aware that area effects are better than lines, I think the black's CE alignment meshes well with the Demon's CE and the character polarized rebellion.
Eldridge Heritage (Arcane) after bonus DD Feat? Not sure if it's worth picking up.

STR 15 +2 17
DEX 12 12
CON 12 12
INT 12 -2 10
WIS 10 10
CHA 15 +2 17

Skills:
Pal 1st: Know (Arcana), Know (Religion)
Pal 2nd: Know (Arcana), Know (Religion)
Pal 3rd: Know (Arcana), Know (Religion)
Pal 4th: Know (Arcana), Spellcraft
Sorc 5th: Know (Religion), Perception
DD 6th: Know (Arcana), Perception
DD 7th: Know (Religion), Perception
DD 8th: Know (Arcana), Perception
DD 9th: Know (Religion), Perception
DD 10th:Know (Arcana), Perception
DD 11th:Know (Religion), Perception
DD 12th:Know (Arcana), Perception

Abilities:
Pal 1st: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil (1/Day)
Feat:
Pal 2nd: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Pal 3rd: Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy
Feat:
Pal 4th: Channel Wrath (OoV), Spells, Sun (Light) Domain (SacServ)
Sorc 5th: Draconic Bloodline Arcana, Dragon Claws
Feat:
DD 6th: Blood of Dragons, Natural Armor +1
DD 7th: Abil Boost (+2STR), Blood Feat (Toughness), Dragon Bite
Sorc3: Dragon Resistances (5 acid, +1 Natural Armor)
Feat:
DD 8th: Breath Weapon
DD 9th: Abil Boost (+2STR) Natural Armor +1
Sorc5: Claws = Magic
Feat:
DD 10th: Blindsense 30ft, Bloodline Feat ()
DD 11th: Abil Boost (+2CON)
Sorc7: Claws Inc a Damage Step
Feat:
DD 12th: Dragon Form 1/day, Natural Armor Inc

Draconic Bonus Feats: Blind-Fight , Great Fortitude , Improved Initiative , Power Attack , Quicken Spell , Skill Focus (Fly), Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]), Toughness .


Revisiting this awesome guide last night and saw the "Anything?-" entry under inevitables. Can anybody point me to the ruling you guys are mentioning and possibly explain why any non caster character can qualify now?

Thanks!


Having just finished playing a Dragon Disciple from levels 2 to 16, I want to say many thanks for this guide - it was great help.

I did notice one thing that may be a mistake - In the section regarding taking two levels of ranger with feral combat training. The text of feral combat training indicates that you choose ONE of your natural attacks to apply the feats effects to. This means that by RAW, you not only need to take weapon focus for each natural weapon, but you would also need to take Feral Weapon Training for each one - if your DM will allow it. (Many feats have a line in the "special" section which states that you can take them multiple times and thus many DMs interpret the lack of such text to mean that the feat can only be taken once.)

guide text:
2 levels of Ranger, Aspect of the Beast: This may not seem like more than permanent claws that are d4 instead of d6. This is blue because it is permanent, but also because it starts off a feat chain that is really nice. Stack your two levels of Ranger with Two levels of MoMS or Unarmed Fighter and get after the first two Dragon Style feats coupled with Feral Combat Training. This combo can give you double Strength bonuses on your first claw attack and an additional ½ your Strength bonus on your other claw. Your Dragon bite? Get Weapon Focus for it and you can double your Str bonus for that. Your tail slap when you do FotD2? Get Weapon Focus and you can double the Strength bonus. Note, you need to take weapon focus for every type of natural weapon you want to use Dragon Style with, so just be warned.

feral combat training:
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Cheliax

Any suggestions about a paladin-sorcerer-dd tank build?


Oterisk wrote:

Here is a look at my semi-secret project. It has kept me sane while I wait for the results from the RPG Superstar. Please leave comments below, because I know it can still be better. I also promise to respond to everyone but it will take time, especially tonight because I am running off to go do some gaming.

Mike Myers wrote:
Talk amongst yourselves... I'll give you a topic.
Click on this for access to the guide.

In the guide is it true that using "Alter Self"ing into a troglodyte lets you use your claws and bite bloodline ability longer?


hello Oterisk! thank you for your awesome guide!!!

have you already read something from the new Advanced Class Guide?
the bloodrager is a mix of a sorcerer and a barbarian, and he get bloodline of course! draconic bloodline give you claw forever, not NxRounds, or only when bloodraging(aka raging) always! he as full Bab, he rages, gets a lot of interesting abilities, he has a crossblooded archetype, another one who let him cast touch spells he knows when hitting a enemy with a manouver and so on!!! only downside, and maybe a big one for those who wanna build also the spellcaster side, is that he only get spells like a ranger, so cap 4th level, getting his first spell at level 4

but i think that for a bestial/melee build is really really fantastic!


(the crossblooded archetype let him pick for example the abyssal bloodline, that have as 4th level power the ability to enlarge yourself when bloodraging.. just because you were not getting enough bonuses to strength)


Halavar wrote:

hello Oterisk! thank you for your awesome guide!!!

have you already read something from the new Advanced Class Guide?
the bloodrager is a mix of a sorcerer and a barbarian, and he get bloodline of course! draconic bloodline give you claw forever, not NxRounds, or only when bloodraging(aka raging) always! he as full Bab, he rages, gets a lot of interesting abilities, he has a crossblooded archetype, another one who let him cast touch spells he knows when hitting a enemy with a manouver and so on!!! only downside, and maybe a big one for those who wanna build also the spellcaster side, is that he only get spells like a ranger, so cap 4th level, getting his first spell at level 4

but i think that for a bestial/melee build is really really fantastic!

The part about having claws forever has been bugging me, according to the text it says:

"When a bloodrager enters a bloodrage, he often takes on a physical transformation influenced by his bloodline and powered by the magic that roils within him. Unless otherwise specified, he gains the effects of his bloodline powers only while in a bloodrage; once the bloodrage ends, all powers from his bloodline immediately cease, and any physical changes the bloodrager underwent revert, restoring him to normal."

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager#TOC-Bloodline

Does this means the claws, resistances, breathe weapon and wings only apply during bloodrage?


It does indeed. Except the level 20 power ofcourse, which specifies you keep the abilities outside of the bloodrage.

I am on the fence still if Bloodrager and DD (should) stack. With sorcerer you could go more gish, but with bloodrager there really is no point, xcept a straight power boost. Losing -3 bab en 3 caster levels but gaining +4 strength, +2 con/int, + 4 natural AC, better wings, a bite and a minutes/level FotD II outside of bloodrage seems... very worth it.

On the other hand, DD remains awesome


Will there be an FAQ on the subject?


Ah, I have some really old comments. If you still want answers, I'll give them, but I bet the issues aren't terribly relevant anymore.

Mech E, Thanks for the input. I will take a close look at that when I do my update.

I'm hoping there will be a FAQ concerning Bloodragers. I've got a bit of updating to do, but the Bloodrager is really awesome even if it doesn't really stack well with DD (although it doesn't seem quite right if it doesn't). It would be nice to read a FAQ, but until that happens I might have to include both sides of the argument and let it be the GM's call.

Yeah, as for the Bloodrager itself the bonuses are nice but they only occur when you rage, which means the more rounds of rage the better. Feats that extend rage or give extra rage rounds per day will be more useful. DD's have permanent bonuses instead of bonuses while they rage, and they get better endgame spells, if you don't count the free quickens.


SirPeter wrote:
Any suggestions about a paladin-sorcerer-dd tank build?

In the middle of doing the same thing.

Currently a Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 2
roleplaying-wise I'm using the dd-prc to make my char a "half-dragon" (deep, emotional, roleplay, fluffy, cathartic drama-stuff)
-and from reading this guide I seem to have done everything wrong. ;)

the build: mithrill full plate, arcane armor, starting spells: shield and enlarge person. Eat those spell failures like a man (due to bad rolls I've "wasted" about one action per combat by this point, roughly)

Pros: natural armor boosts, strength boosts, self-buffing with spells, +1 feeling cool about being a "Dragon Knight".

Cons: arcane spell failure my old enemy -we meet again, ok I'm done buffing-what do you mean everybody is dead?!, my bab is equal (or lower?) than the rogues ...

Play style:

1. beat up things with a 2-hander (started as sword-and-board, stumbled across a large bastard sword, had the feat so why the heck not)
2. If the enemy looks togh or many: remember that I can cast spells; enlarge; shield. -go back to beating up things.
( 3. Grin and/or cackled in joy when bbeg turns out to ping my detect Evol -proceed to smite with childish abandon.

Notes: if you go 4lvls martial then 1lvl caster (sorcerer) into dd you will have very little spells: those two spells I have listed are the ONLY first lvl spells I have an will have untill I reach lvl 8or9. So regardless of how many spells your sorc can CAST, the options are limited.

Can't speak for later levels but the current trend of the build seems to be that you sacriice BAB for buffs - my case: trading to-hit for damage: when I connect with my Huge Frost Bastard Sword I do a godawful damage. (nicknamed; The Plank - as it's the only way I can envision somthing that absurdly big being swung around)
The flip side is that I'm lvl 7 and I still don't have my iterative attacks.
The funny thing us that my guy is not optimized fully; had CHA as highest score going into dd.

Base line: sorcadin dd is fun, but a bit stressing between lvl 4-6 as your spell choices are what you're stuck with for the next levels.


I'm definitely a fan of replacing Sorcerer with Bard for the heavy armour/martial build. You may not get as good buff spells but you get a lot more synergy with Cha and some of the spells you do get (like Saving Finale) are amazing, flavour with Archaeologist archetype & Lingering Performance for taste (add Fates Favoured if you have room).

This has the added benefit of putting a lot of V only spells on your list, which aren't bothered by Arcane Spell Failure and thus make the heavy armour a lot more convenient. It also opens up a ton of skills as class skills, if you like that sort of thing. You still make the same BAB sacrifices but the Luck bonus helps offset that (and makes your already great saves even more ridiculous as well!)

Grand Lodge

What really caught my eye from the ACG was the Eldritch Scion archetype for the magus. You get charisma-based spontaneous spellcasting and a bloodline. This is a no-brainer for the Beast Caster type DD. Magus 5/DD x looks really nice. Your bloodline starts from level 1, you get the +damage/die of the bloodline arcana without any cheese, and you get to skip that BAB-killing one level of sorcerer if you try to do a DD magus.

I'm not really sure what the text about using abilities "as if in a bloodrage" is about. Is that saying you only get the draconic bloodline features like bonus strength and natural armor boost when using the eldritch trance?


i totally missed the part about "only while bloodraging"

but this confuses me:

from abyssal bloodline: Claws (Su)
At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging. These claws are treated as...

from Draconic bloodline: Claws (Su)
At 1st level, you grow claws. These claws are treated as....

why did they write it differently? maybe for draconic the claws are always on


Halavar wrote:

i totally missed the part about "only while bloodraging"

but this confuses me:

from abyssal bloodline: Claws (Su)
At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging. These claws are treated as...

from Draconic bloodline: Claws (Su)
At 1st level, you grow claws. These claws are treated as....

why did they write it differently? maybe for draconic the claws are always on

It's while raging for both. They just have the superfluously worded "while raging" on abyssal.

Ghorrin Redblade


okay, it just makes me wonder!

maybe it wasn't clear excuse me, but what i wrote about bloodrager was anyway only for the 5 level of normal class you have to spend before become a DD and not to replace the DD! i thought that they were 5 awesome level before entering the DD


No sweat, I've second-guessed myself into stuff plenty of times. :)


Hey, I've been planning on playing a Dragon Disciple in one of the games I'm in and have been tinkering with starting Ranger for all-day access to natural weapons.

With the introduction of the ACG and all these hybrid classes, I feel like the sorcerer archetype, the "Eldritch Scrapper" , might prove to be something worth picking up if you don't mind the loss of the 1st level bloodline power in exchange for the Martial Flexibility ability.


Oterisk, thank you so much for the guide. I've gotten a lot of use out of it over the years. But I think there are a couple of problems with your use of SLA's. Dragon Disciple requires that the character be able to cast 1st level arcane spells without preparation, and some of the SLA's that you mentioned don't satisfy that criteria.

Two examples:

1. Gnomes with the Pyromaniac racial trait get the following SLA's:
dancing lights: 0th level arcane
flare: 0th level arcane
prestidigitation: 0th level arcane
produce flame: 1st level divine

None of these qualify.

2. Half-elves with the Drow-blooded racial trait get the following SLA's:
dancing lights: 0th level arcane
darkness: 2nd level arcane
faerie fire: 1st level divine

None of these qualify.

For an excellent breakdown of both the rules and individual examples of SLA's, I would suggest Pupsocket's Guide to Early Entry with Spell-Like Abilities.

Also the debate over whether crossblooded and wildblooded are compatible has been resolved by this FAQ. They can't both be taken under the official rules.

201 to 243 of 243 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Oterisk's Guide to the Dragon Disciple All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.