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Oterisk's Guide to the Dragon Disciple


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Working on my Cavalier Guide I just had to do a Dragon Knight and your guide was an excellent reference.

Thanks for that


I think you have too many Eldritch Heritages. If I recall, because people have told me on the rules forums many a time, you can only have one eldritch heritage per character. Not sure why.
Not only that, but the inherent strength bonuses from Orc and Abyssal don't stack. Both from the same source, so I've been told again.

Both of those points are correct Blackhart. You can't take the same feat twice unless it says you can. Eldritch Heritage doesn't say you can. And Inherent bonuses don't stack, so there'd be no point.

So, I love the guide, and before I read it I never considered playing a DD in my whole life.

Now I'm playing one in a PBP. I'm going with a barb1/sor4/DD build, and I basically followed the directions as much as possible.

However, right now I am a lvl1 barb, and I wear scale mail. My dex is 11.

When it comes time for me to level, do i cast aside my scales and just glass cannon for the next 3 levels, *hoping* I don't get clobbered while clobbering?

Thanks for all the things.

@Solspiral- That's a pretty good beast build, but the other guys are right. Inherent bonuses from Orc and Abyssal will not stack. That being said, there's a few extra feats for you to enjoy. Also, you could gain a bit of it back by putting more of your level bonuses in your strength. I think you'll find you are using your strength more than your charisma with this character. Having the options of the mount as well as up close or even dragon transformation (being a medium dragon on horseback would be interesting!) and a few low level spells to mix things up. Looks like fun to play!

@That Other Guy- My advice to you is to keep the scale mail until you get mage armor at level 4. You'll have the ASF to deal with, but if you stick to spells like True Strike and Feather Fall which can be cast in armor without trouble or touch spells like Shocking Grasp that you can cast outside of combat and hold the charge until you get in for some extra damage. Once you get to level 5, you'll get a second level spell. Alter Self is one of my favorites for the +2, but Mirror Image will help you in tough fights avoid a few attacks and be less of a glass cannon.

Thanks again!

After skimming it I don't belive you mentioned the Skinwalker race. For the Brute player I think the Fanglord or Ragebred with the focus on natural attacks would work well. Especially if you had a DM who let the Bloodrager's bloodline grow.

I think you're underselling the Arcanist in your guide. There are two options that could replace Sorcerer as the Inevitable. The Blood Arcanist essentially trades most of its exploits for bloodline abilities. The other option is to take a level of Sorcerer or Bloodrager, and then take the Bloodline Development exploit. This allows the Arcanist levels to stack with the other class for purposes of determining the bloodline abilities.

The Arcanist is a little more flexible than the Sorcerer, particularly when it comes to spells known. You could have lesser used spells in your spellbook that you only pull out when you need them. The Quick Study exploit lets you swap out a spell you have memorized for one in your spellbook to make it even more attractive.

Finally, the Arcanist is an Intelligence-based caster, so the bonus to Intelligence that DD gives you helps out here.

Hi Oterisk and thanks for your useful guide!

What do you think about a Paladin 2 / Eldritch Scion magus 3 / DD x Build?
Don't you think it will be a great melee build?
He get spell combact, spell strike, smite evil, great safe, can cast with light armor and ES bloodline will progress with DD!

He get less spells that's true, but i thin that DD is more a melee fighter than a "real caster" and Magus have some good buff to boost DD stats.

What do you say?

@AZG- I named the inevitables exactly that because they were the original classes you could use that you had to use. Originally it was just Bard and Sorcerer, but then Summoner got thrown in the mix. Now we have Skald and Bloodrager too, so I had to put them in there. The Arcanist has to prepare it's spells, so it doesn't qualify (except for the SLA work around).

Okay, the Arcanist is a bit more flexible than the Sorcerer. Although after playing a straight Sorcerer up through an AP I do pretty good with scrolls, staves and a Mnemonic Vestment at filling all the arcane needs of the group. It does help that we have a druid as well to also take a bit of the burden off of utility caster. YMMV. If you're playing a DD, you'd actually better not be the utility caster, because it's a bad idea. Stick to buffs and blasts and you'll be better off.

It's a pretty interesting new class although to me its a bit overhyped in my opinion. That being said, it's not better than a sorcerer in my opinion due to the amount of spells they get. Now I know there's tricks around that. But I'm not going to want to spend my resources to get more spells per day when I could have just had them from the start and spend my resources on things like doing more damage or having some good defense for when I wade into melee.

I gave it orange, just like the wizard. And the Wizard is a powerful and interesting option too. The wizard gets spell access earlier and when you drop a casting level or two in pursuit of the DD levels, that can be a real boon. So I think it's about right. If you want to show me a build that's got a lot of benefits over a sorcerer or wizard build, I might reconsider, but for now I'm sticking with my original assessment.

@Forcy- After playing an Eldritch Scion a little, I found them to be quite fun. Now many people make a stink about how they can only do spell combat when they use their arcane pool. That is a legitimate concern, and something you'll have to provide for. The ES would be a good place to go "IF" your GM allows the bloodline to stack. It's currently always a house rule to allow it unless something has changed lately, so tread lightly. Spell Combat does work with natural weapons associated with a hand (such as claw) so you're good there.

If you can't get the bloodline to stack, you might think of going with a Spirit Summoner. They too can cast in armor and have a much better buff list and early access to things like Haste. The Spirit Summoner also gets 3 levels of an Eidolon which you can turn into a wand monkey, so you actually don't lose much on action economy there and you don't have a -2 to your attacks.

In any case, the most important thing is to clear it with your GM and go from there. Also, builds are easier to judge when you add race and feats and skills. I'd recommend putting together the Build you proposed and do another with something similar and see which one you like better.

@Kyle- I'll have to update that.

Hey there. Hate to rain on the parade, but I was looking through the guide and noticed that you were still talking about using the SLA ruling to get into the class. That ruling has recently been reversed. I'd go into the exact details, but I don't have them. I dunno. Thought you ought to know, in case you didn't.

Here you go. New version of the ruling on SLAs:

So I am doing a Half Orc, Witch-Doctor prestige into DD; the GM is allowing my witch to qualify the "spontaneous level 1 spells" since I recently "ate" a dragon's soul, which seems a fair enough excuse for any game. Could you potentially add that option into your guide as from my personal analysis of the build, a "buffing, blasting, melee brute that uses com to cast" seems like a blue since everything else makes up for the -5 to the DC of hexes. I also want to know if you see anything that I potentially missed.

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