Witches and Ultimate Magic


Rules Questions


Forgive me if this has been addressed already but I couldn't find it.

I hadve a few questions I was hoping to get an official answer on regarding new wicth abilities listed in UM. Some of the decriptions seened a little vague in parts.

Ice Tomb/Hoarfrost - I didn't see any range listed on either of these. Both seem really cool, Ice as a battlefield control and Hoar as an interrogation tool, but I'd like to know if it's the standard 30 ft or if it's a touch.

Prehensile Hair - Showing up the group fighter by ripping a door off it's hinges that he couldn't muscle down sounds awesome, but does this abitlity also give me a 10 ft threat range while active? Also does it let me use INT for my CMD rather than STR?

Spell Poppet - Does this thing have a movement speed? I see it can be used to deliver touch attacks.

Any info would be appreciated.


Spell Poppet lets a witch deliver touch-attacks from range. It's a voodoo doll.

Dark Archive

Ice Tomb/Hoarfrost are all at the standard 30' (if it doesn't declare a range it defaults back to the standard hex range).

Prehensile Hair, It works how you think, it's really just a regular limb with a 10' reach that replaces Str with Int for everything it does. It also has the added advantage of being non-attackable and immune to Sunder.

Spell Poppet really kinda sucks. It's an immobile doll that increases the cast time of all your touch spells by a full round to add a few feet of reach. Useful in some cases but I'd rather have the familiar.

Also give Beast-Bonded a good read before you let it in your games. It's vague enough to be VERY over-powered if used incorrectly.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Also give Beast-Bonded a good read before you let it in your games. It's vague enough to be VERY over-powered if used incorrectly.

You mean being completely Immortal and almost impossible to destroy at 10th level? lol.

I dont see how it can be misunderstood. Its broken as writen. No need to use it incorrectly.


The spell poppet range starts at 20' and increases with level.

One big advantage of the spell poppet is that it doesn't have HP. The biggest drawback to the standard witch is that their spellbooks can get killed and cost a metric buttload to replace.


cattoy wrote:

The spell poppet range starts at 20' and increases with level.

One big advantage of the spell poppet is that it doesn't have HP. The biggest drawback to the standard witch is that their spellbooks can get killed and cost a metric buttload to replace.

It can be sundered though.

Dark Archive

cattoy wrote:

The spell poppet range starts at 20' and increases with level.

One big advantage of the spell poppet is that it doesn't have HP. The biggest drawback to the standard witch is that their spellbooks can get killed and cost a metric buttload to replace.

That's not an advantage, as an object it falls under the hardness/sunder/steal domain.

Made of cloth and sticks it floats with a hardness of between 0-5 and 2-10 effective HP's that never improve. You can strip this witch of all their spells and most of her class abilities with a stick or easy sleight of hand/steal Combat maneuver.

Easiest way of dealing with them is walk straight up and snatch it out of their hands (who cares about the AoO, it can't hurt even if they do hit you) and tear the dolly in half in front of them.
Then laugh as they need to spend a fortune to replace all the spells they just lost.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Easiest way of dealing with them is walk straight up and snatch it out of their hands (who cares about the AoO, it can't hurt even if they do hit you) and tear the dolly in half in front of them.

Then laugh as they need to spend a fortune to replace all the spells they just lost.

This made me lol!

BTW thaks for the responses guys.


If the witch is even half-way intelligent then they will not be waving the source of all their power around where any chump can see/steal/sunder it anyway.

There is nothing saying that it has to be visible, in their hand or even on their person to use their powers (except in the case of the touch=range touch and possess undead abilities) any more than the wizard has to walk round with his spellbook in his hand.


Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

If the witch is even half-way intelligent then they will not be waving the source of all their power around where any chump can see/steal/sunder it anyway.

There is nothing saying that it has to be visible, in their hand or even on their person to use their powers (except in the case of the touch=range touch and possess undead abilities) any more than the wizard has to walk round with his spellbook in his hand.

From what I just read, for the purpose delivering touch spells she would have to have it in her hands. Since this is a full-round action she would have had to have pulled it out the round before. However for normal spell/hex casting, no she would not neccesarrily have to have it out/visible.


I suppose a witch with prehensile hair could hold an invisible poppet with their hair, utilizing their int as str in case of an attempt by someone to grab the poppet. Not to mention holding it out of range of a grab if necessary.

Actually, it doesn't say you have to HOLD the poppet, just that you have to poke it with a pin. I'm gonna keep my poppet in a pocket and use my prehensile hair to poke it...

Dark Archive

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Prehensile hair is probably one of the greatest hexes available right now. So many underestimate just how useful a a third hand can be especially when it's 10 feet long.

The number of DM's I have who can't stand my Hexcrafter using his beard to disarm/trip/steal/etc. the opponents as I move into engage. I just need the rules on strangulation to make this the most perfect power in the game.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dragonamedrake wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Also give Beast-Bonded a good read before you let it in your games. It's vague enough to be VERY over-powered if used incorrectly.

You mean being completely Immortal and almost impossible to destroy at 10th level? lol.

I dont see how it can be misunderstood. Its broken as writen. No need to use it incorrectly.

Impossible? there's nothing that makes the familliar invulnerable while housing the witch's spirit. And it's not Immortal.

Shadow Lodge

LazarX wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Also give Beast-Bonded a good read before you let it in your games. It's vague enough to be VERY over-powered if used incorrectly.

You mean being completely Immortal and almost impossible to destroy at 10th level? lol.

I dont see how it can be misunderstood. Its broken as writen. No need to use it incorrectly.

Impossible? there's nothing that makes the familliar invulnerable while housing the witch's spirit. And it's not Immortal.

A witch's familiar is essentially a living spellbook. And as all overly-entitled wizard players know, spellbooks are absolutely not allowed to be targeted by any harmfull effect, have damage reduction infinity/-, and are immunte to anything and everything. :P

Grand Lodge

Kthulhu wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Also give Beast-Bonded a good read before you let it in your games. It's vague enough to be VERY over-powered if used incorrectly.

You mean being completely Immortal and almost impossible to destroy at 10th level? lol.

I dont see how it can be misunderstood. Its broken as writen. No need to use it incorrectly.

Impossible? there's nothing that makes the familliar invulnerable while housing the witch's spirit. And it's not Immortal.
A witch's familiar is essentially a living spellbook. And as all overly-entitled wizard players know, spellbooks are absolutely not allowed to be targeted by any harmfull effect, have damage reduction infinity/-, and are immunte to anything and everything. :P

If only.

I never attack a familiar spellbook etc as a DM, but my DM makes it almost a mantra. Just having an arcane bonded item, familair, spellbook etc is like a living TAUNT from some MMO. Sad really.


I did give a couple of examples where the poppet has to be in hand, including the ranged touch ability. The suggestion to make it invisible is an intriguing one and could certainly be made permanent. The only problem with this? Finding the d#mn thing!

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Also give Beast-Bonded a good read before you let it in your games. It's vague enough to be VERY over-powered if used incorrectly.

You mean being completely Immortal and almost impossible to destroy at 10th level? lol.

I dont see how it can be misunderstood. Its broken as writen. No need to use it incorrectly.

Impossible? there's nothing that makes the familliar invulnerable while housing the witch's spirit. And it's not Immortal.

He did say ALMOST impossible to destroy and that fact is true.

As long as one of their spirits is in a body (either the witch or the familiar) if the other is killed it's spirit flees over to where ever the other is. Immediately after that the recently deceased party jumps into the next available body (I like choosing a random insect in the area or the offending party who had the audacity to kill my last body.

That's where the immortality part comes from (or you take a homonculus/imp/quasit/etc. as a familiar and get their free immortality).

For real fun once you hit 10th level you kill yourself, jump into the imps body and then raise dead/Clone -> suspended animation your original body and then possess a new body. Any time you die you automatically jump back to your original body, repeat the steps above and then go get revenge/recover your gear.
It's a hoot!
This archetype is scary hard to kill, you have to drop them both at the same time AND destroy all it's clones and original bodies too.

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