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The "No-Flame-War" Pledge


D&D 4th Edition (and Beyond)

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President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I, State Your Name, pledge to not make Paizo's forums (or any other forums for that matter) a hellscape of flame wars. I will respect my fellow posters and will not dismiss their opinions out of hand because they're on "Team 4E" or "Team Pathfinder" or "Team 5E" or any other "side" they may have chosen. It is their choice, just like it is my choice to prefer a different game. I will not call someone a disrespectful name nor question their intelligence because they made a different choice than myself. There is no reason to fight. Sure I may disagree with someone's choice, but if that is the manner in which they choose to have fun, I can wish them well in that. We're all in this for fun and fighting helps no one.

Signed

(Post your Name below to sign this pledge)

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Dale McCoy, Jr.

Shadow Lodge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

I cannot, in good conscience, sign this pledge.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

*walks in dressed in an asbestos suit and with a flame-thrower in his hands*

Oh sorry, wrong room.


Richard E. Moore, AKA Power Word Unzip


Yay, we have allies in the 4th edition bunch against the despicable 5dventure-lovers... :-)


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I will love and tolerate the crap out of this forum.

Or something.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I, Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert, pledge to not make Paizo's forums (or any other forums for that matter) a hellscape of flame wars. I will respect my fellow posters and will not dismiss their opinions out of hand because they're on "Team 4E" or "Team Pathfinder" or "Team 5E" or any other "side" they may have chosen. It is their choice, just like it is my choice to prefer a different game. I will not call someone a disrespectful name nor question their intelligence because they made a different choice than myself. There is no reason to fight. Sure I may disagree with someone's choice, but if that is the manner in which they choose to have fun, I can wish them well in that. We're all in this for fun and fighting helps no one.

Signed

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert


The 3E-4E flame/edition war helped give Paizo the inspiration to go their own way and got enough of WoTCs attention to make them take notice. Look what that has done today. Say what you want about the edition war but I don't think Pathfinder would have been created or succeeded without the public and vocal support of 3E and the public and vocal criticism of 4E.

With that in mind, I will continue to express my opinions about these games, if that gets labeled a flame or edition war, so be it. Turned out pretty good last time since I got a game I like (Pathfinder). Maybe the community can do the same for D&D now. We'll see.

The "Edition Wars" are really over now and there seems to be a pretty clear cut winner (hint: it's not everyone! :)). Wrong Step! Wrong Step!

Seriously though. We're gonna need a 5E forum. I don't think this discussion belongs in the 4E forum.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Diffan wrote:
NO, 5E fans are going to have to take their licks like everyone else. Tough.

Can't we rise above this? Can't we just let the past stay the past? Can't we aspire to higher ideals and listen to our better angels? Sure there has been some serious fighting in the past from both sides to both sides, but can't we take this moment to say, "This is a new day and we can be better." Can't we end the fighting?

Layout and Design, Frog God Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am capable of liking, playing, and seeing the merits of more than one game system.

I am also capable of restraining myself from telling other people that they are having wrong-bad fun or their tirades at me for the same.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about this new fantasy game that Monte Cook has been hired to concoct. I've kinda liked what he's done in the past.

I AM a bit concerned about how this might affect the sales of the "0E Clones" out there. Especially Swords & Wizardry.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Chuck Wright wrote:
I AM a bit concerned about how this might affect the sales of the "0E Clones" out there. Especially Swords & Wizardry.

I suspect it will have little impact on Swords and Wizardry. Even if Wizards can successfully bring more people back to D&D, I doubt they will be so rules light that the Swords and Wizardry fans go back to it. The best thing about Swords and Wizardry is that it's really owned by the community. You make it your own game.

I'm a fan of Pathfinder, 4th Edition, and many, many other games beside.

I'll try to stay out of edition warring, but I can't promise not to correct factual mistakes that may be posted in the crossfire.

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

All I will say about this topic. Paizo is open to 4e (and will probably be open to 5e) discussions on their boards, and many have been really helpful for people trying out the game, and for Scott sharing some of his really well thought out conversions of RotRL and other stuff. Some have been pure flamebait battle grounds. But they are all here.

WotC doesn't reciprocate, and their community is much more hostile to Pathfinder discussion there than this place is to 4e discussion.

So, this community is more open and less moderated. It's the nature of the beast. There will be an uncomfortable adjustment period while this is going on, with the new edition, and I guarantee there will be 4e followers that are as critical of the new edition as there were 3x followers critical of the current edition. Nature of the beast.

This pledge means nothing, really. Nerds are going to be nerds, and I, for one, look forward to what innovations rise out of the ashes of the imminent brush up. The last one gave us Pathfinder, after all.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

6 people marked this as a favorite.

I, Sebastian the Awesome, pledge to render unto the world a hellscape of flame wars. I will rip tears from the eyes of my fellow posters, insult their hygiene, and imply that they have contracted a particularly vicious strain of syhpilis that has damaged their reasoning ability beyond repair. By making a different choice or having a different preference than me, such posters are clearly morons of the first caliber, and should be mocked and harrassed until they STFU and DIAF.

Signed

SEBASTIAN THE AWESOME

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:

I, Sebastian the Awesome, pledge to render unto the world a hellscape of flame wars. I will rip tears from the eyes of my fellow posters, insult their hygiene, and imply that they have contracted a particularly vicious strain of syhpilis that has damaged their reasoning ability beyond repair. By making a different choice or having a different preference than me, such posters are clearly morons of the first caliber, and should be mocked and harrassed until they STFU and DIAF.

Signed

SEBASTIAN THE AWESOME

It's about time you came back. You've been missed, you know.


deinol wrote:
Chuck Wright wrote:
I AM a bit concerned about how this might affect the sales of the "0E Clones" out there. Especially Swords & Wizardry.

I suspect it will have little impact on Swords and Wizardry. Even if Wizards can successfully bring more people back to D&D, I doubt they will be so rules light that the Swords and Wizardry fans go back to it. The best thing about Swords and Wizardry is that it's really owned by the community. You make it your own game.

I'm a fan of Pathfinder, 4th Edition, and many, many other games beside.

I'll try to stay out of edition warring, but I can't promise not to correct factual mistakes that may be posted in the crossfire.

As a former 4e-hater and newfound tolerant-of-all-games player, I appreciate it when those who are in the know, and experienced, help dispell inaccuracies of a game I am not familiar with.

I've made more than my share of shots at 4e, but thanks in huge part to those very flame-war threads, I also saw a lot of false notions and just plain wrong ideas about 4e. My only regret being someone else got flamed down for the knowledge I garnered, but hey, they made their bed.

That being said, there's a huge difference with how some of the more knowledgeable 4e guys dispell false truths; some are a little harsh and self-serving for my tastes.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I gotta admit, I was not expecting a statement of, "I will follow the forum rules," restated in a different way would be met with such resistance. *somewhere between confused and bewildered*

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm just not going to talk about 5th edition at all. It has no relevance to me.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I gotta admit, I was not expecting a statement of, "I will follow the forum rules," restated in a different way would be met with such resistance. *somewhere between confused and bewildered*

You see, me and TOZ are Chaotic by nature. I'm not sure of the second alignment axis, tho.

Shadow Lodge

I didn't even read the pledge.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Can't we rise above this? Can't we just let the past stay the past?

A while back I was perusing a used book store and saw what appeared to be a third-party reprint/reorganization of AD&D 2E rules. The title page had a blurb describing what the book was, and it started with the text "This isn't Third Edition. Okay, we can all start breathing again." It then went on to tell how terrible 3E was and how the book I was holding was an effort to preserve "the game we know and love". It read like an anti-4E messageboard post (only with better grammar and all the 4's replaced with 3's).

So, no. If history is to be believed, then this is going to happen every single time a new edition comes out.

Quote:
Can't we aspire to higher ideals and listen to our better angels?

I think everyone killed their shoulder angels for the XP.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
I'm just not going to talk about 5th edition at all. It has no relevance to me.

Based on what I read for someone who tried a 5E prototype and posted opinions (Link), I'll give it a try when it comes out. It so far sounds like something I may enjoy. It won't replace Pathfinder, but I wouldn't be the first to have room for both Paizo and WOTC. Of course, it could also suck, in which case no harm done and stick with Pathfinder. I choose to remain open minded for the time being based on what I've read.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I break my pledge can I be spanked?


Firstly, I never said that "I, Diffan" personally was going to rally against 5E or it's fans (I'm hopeful it won't be crap, but I'm not going to run out and buy it the first month it debuted). But such a pledge to stop the Edition war (hells, really even before it begins and we have something to argue about) when no such attempt was made with 4E, I can't get behind. Firstly, because I don't really care. As they say "Haters are going to hate." and I'm just sick of it from.....well the whole community (4E, 3E, 2E, yadda-yadda).

So, once again, I'm not going to sign a pledge that forces my views of an upcoming edition into a box. If I don't like an aspect of 5E (or 4E or pathfinder), I feel the same right everyone else does in making it known how and why it's bad and ideas to correct it. I'll also be doing this with the 5E playtest, so at least I can say "hey, I did what I could."

Also, I'd like to state that I feel BOTH sides of the editon war was carried out by both parties. But I can say that I never went to the Pathfinder rules and spouted off the number of things I personally disliked with the system just to get a rise out of people or to feel some sort of vindication. Unlike many here who are rolling in the validation they apparently feel that 4E was a failur (a position I frankly don't agree with).

Layout and Design, Frog God Games

Gorbacz wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I gotta admit, I was not expecting a statement of, "I will follow the forum rules," restated in a different way would be met with such resistance. *somewhere between confused and bewildered*
You see, me and TOZ are Chaotic by nature. I'm not sure of the second alignment axis, tho.

It is my belief that TOZ is Chaotic Silly.

Layout and Design, Frog God Games

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I gotta admit, I was not expecting a statement of, "I will follow the forum rules," restated in a different way would be met with such resistance. *somewhere between confused and bewildered*

I only see one person resisting.


I don't really care one way or the other.
I just hope there's a 5e section that I can close with the arrow, so I don't have to hear it.
Then I'm cool, and I can stay out of it.

Shadow Lodge

Chuck Wright wrote:
It is my belief that TOZ is Chaotic Silly.

Looking at my character sheet, it says Neutral, which means I can commit a Lawful, Chaotic, Good, and Evil act all at the same time with no repercussions. Except for a ringing headache.

Grand Lodge

Pledged.


Stefan Hill wrote:
If I break my pledge can I be spanked?

Aye. Arr.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
I didn't even read the pledge.

So the first rule of Pledge Club is Don't Read the Freaking Pledge?


houstonderek wrote:
Sebastian wrote:


Signed

SEBASTIAN THE AWESOME

It's about time you came back. You've been missed, you know.

Not universally.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

I, GRU, pledge to not make Paizo's forums (or any other forums for that matter) a hellscape of flame wars. I will respect my fellow posters and will not dismiss their opinions out of hand because they're on "Team 4E" or "Team Pathfinder" or "Team 5E" or any other "side" they may have chosen. It is their choice, just like it is my choice to prefer a different game. I will not call someone a disrespectful name nor question their intelligence because they made a different choice than myself. There is no reason to fight. Sure I may disagree with someone's choice, but if that is the manner in which they choose to have fun, I can wish them well in that. We're all in this for fun and fighting helps no one.

Signed

GRU

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I, Alexander Kilcoyne, solemnly pledge to pretty much ignore this sub-forum and continue to live and let live, letting PF, 4E and 5E players enjoy their game without telling them they are having fun wrong.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter 2013

TOZ wrote:
I cannot, in good conscience, sign this pledge.

Ditto.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Can't we rise above this? Can't we just let the past stay the past? Can't we aspire to higher ideals and listen to our better angels? Sure there has been some serious fighting in the past from both sides to both sides, but can't we take this moment to say, "This is a new day and we can be better." Can't we end the fighting?

Sure we can. Here's how: The merits of the game will have to outweigh the issues of past editions, owners, & management. Until the game's released and we see what the WotC business model for 5e will be -- not yet.

It's a GAME. I could give a flying f--- that its title will be Dungeons & Dragons. WotC & 4e did a pretty thorough job of alienating a lot of fans. 4e zealots (and yeah, I know PF has them too...) helped make sure it was a scorched earth result.

The current D&D design team is a new group than the one that created 4e. WotC has different management than when 4e was developed & launched. So can I cut those current WotC staff some slack? Sure. But as a former WotC customer do I need to give WotC some slack? F--- NO. They have to earn that goodwill back (and they can). Will they? Time will tell.

I'll take a look at 5e when it comes out, but to say it starts with a clean slate? Sorry, no.

I have a game that I'm deleriously happy with, and it ain't D&D these days.

EDIT: Why the strong feelings? B/c if we don't hold a company accountable for its products, quality, and customer treatment, how can we expect anything different (as in better) from them? 5e has a steep hill to climb. Doable, but difficult.


I, FuelDrop, do solemly swear that i will not intentionally get involved in any flame war, will do my utmost best to respect other's points of view, and to leave naught but distruction and insanity in my wake evenly amongst proponents of all games systems without favoring any one in particular. ;)

Indiscriminate incendiary death for all!


FuelDrop wrote:
Indiscriminate incendiary death for all!

'Tis the only true way. Arr.

Layout and Design, Frog God Games

BPorter wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Can't we rise above this? Can't we just let the past stay the past? Can't we aspire to higher ideals and listen to our better angels? Sure there has been some serious fighting in the past from both sides to both sides, but can't we take this moment to say, "This is a new day and we can be better." Can't we end the fighting?

Sure we can. Here's how: The merits of the game will have to outweigh the issues of past editions, owners, & management. Until the game's released and we see what the WotC business model for 5e will be -- not yet.

It's a GAME. I could give a flying f--- that its title will be Dungeons & Dragons. WotC & 4e did a pretty thorough job of alienating a lot of fans. 4e zealots (and yeah, I know PF has them too...) helped make sure it was a scorched earth result.

The current D&D design team is a new group than the one that created 4e. WotC has different management than when 4e was developed & launched. So can I cut those current WotC staff some slack? Sure. But as a former WotC customer do I need to give WotC some slack? F--- NO. They have to earn that goodwill back (and they can). Will they? Time will tell.

I'll take a look at 5e when it comes out, but to say it starts with a clean slate? Sorry, no.

I have a game that I'm deleriously happy with, and it ain't D&D these days.

EDIT: Why the strong feelings? B/c if we don't hold a company accountable for its products, quality, and customer treatment, how can we expect anything different (as in better) from them? 5e has a steep hill to climb. Doable, but difficult.

I'm failing to understand how what WotC/Hasbro did as keeping you from not flaming and trolling the new edition on these boards. (And that goes to the others who aren't joking when they talk about it. I only quoted you because yours is the most recent post.)


TOZ wrote:
I'm just not going to talk about 5th edition at all. It has no relevance to me.

I agree. It does not even exist yet. Well some alpha version does, but you know what I mean.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I agree not to flame anyone. That means no personal insults. It does not mean I won't point out any perceived flaws if I take a look at the game when it comes out. However if you take my opinions as flaming, even when no insult is evident, there is not much I can do about that.


I'm staying out of it, live and let live is my motto.

I just have 1 request:
I keep the 4e section closed and that really helps me stay out of it; if for whatever reason you think that you need to post 5e related stuff out of the 4e section, could you be nice enough to label it as 5e related so I can hide the post and thus continue to stay out of it?


I think a 5th edition section would help.

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