Simplifying the Beginner Box


Beginner Box


I was given the Beginner Box from my FLGS owner to run some events at his store. (He's desperate to get some PF games started to balance the abundance of 4E play opportunities.)I had run two sessions of Society at his store, but the rules proved a little tough for the players.

I like the basics of the Beginner Box. It's a good start to appeal to players who are overwhelmed by the size and scope of the PFRPG Core.

However, I'm wondering if I changed a few things, would it completely destroy the balance of the game?

1) 1 for 1 movement. (No 5 ft/10 ft. diagonal movement)
2) "square" fireballs - like 4E. (A simpler way to measure area effects)
3) The penalty for firing into melee and through an ally's square, creating an effective -8 to hit penalty. (This frustrates the heck out of players of ranged characters, particularly those coming from 4E.)

Anything else you can suggest to streamline?


1) won't break much to be honest.
2) won't break much either.
3) will make archery characters, who are already crazy powerful, even more so.


I haven't found that archery characters are THAT powerful, IMO. Especially if you're limiting it to a level 1-5 game like the Beginner Box does. No extra attacks. Damage is pretty much capped at 1d8 (there are no composite bows in the BB, so no Str bonuses). And the characters probably won't get the ability to take a lot of feats to nulify the -8 penalty; certainly they won't reach 11th level to take improved precise shot, so their friends will always be blocking their shots. And it takes two out of the five maximum feats a human fighter archer will get to merely reduce this to a -4 penalty.

In regular, core PF, I could understand the -8 penalty. In the Beginner Box, it seems an unfair limitation of ranged attack characters.


If you're concerned about the simplicity of explaining feats and calculating the -8 penalty, another option would be to completely disallow firing into melee, forcing archers to draw their swords. That's how the old D&D Basic Game did it, but I'll admit it was easier in that game because there were no rules for stowing and drawing weapons (so everyone could be armed with bows, fire on the first round of combat, and automatically switch to sword and shield on the second round of combat).


That -8 turns into a -4 if the archer moves to a position where their buddy isn't between them and the bad guy; this encourages maneuver in combat rather than stand and shoot.

That -4 can be gotten rid of by taking two feats: Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

A human fighter archer should be getting:

3 feats at 1st
1 feat at 2nd
1 feat at 3rd
1 feat at 4th
1 feat at 5th.

So that's 2 out of 7 feats to get rid of that penalty, if he can move to change his angle of fire.

Lantern Lodge

Hi Harles,

Running Beginner Box events for players at your local games store is a great idea. I find the Beginner Box easy to learn, easy to run, a lot of fun! and easy to teach new players.

I think the Beginner Box is a great little game for home games, maybe families, or kids running games with their friends, or anyone gaming on their own without connecting with a wider gaming community. In these situations, players are free to play the game however suits their style, simplifying rules, or making their own house rules.

However, when running public games, such as at a local games store, I think it's wise to stick with the script. One of the great things about community gaming is that players can travel from one event to another - local game store; school library; regional conventions; home games - and know the rules will be familiar wherever they choose to play. If you start changing those rules, someone attending another event doesn't know which rules are in play.

Public games are one of the best ways for new players to learn about roleplaying and Pathfinder. Ideally you'll want to be teaching these players the correct rules, so when they purchase the game for themselves, or play at other events, they're not spreading misinformation.

My views are influenced by running Pathfinder Society events at my local game store every Sunday, and at four game conventions each year, where I meet a large number of players, many new to Pathfinder, and many veterans of the game, all coming together to enjoy the game we all love! While you might be starting out small, over time some of your Beginner Box players may expand into Core Rulebook territory, and your group may attract other players who already have a PFS character looking for somewhere to play. Beginner Box rules are a subset of the Core Rules, so players can game at the same table regardless of which rules they build their character with, even mix-and-match from various sourcebooks.

If running public games, you might want to check out Paizo's vast number of Pathfinder Society scenarios. They release one low-level (1-5) scenario every month, and the three First Steps intro series are free PDF downloads. You can download the Pathfinder Society Character Creation Guide which describes what Beginner Box players need to know when creating a character for Society play, and the GM will need to be familiar with the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organised Play. PFS organised play requires rules consistency so everyone is playing the same game, regardless of where in the world they're playing.

If you start running games at your local game store, you might want to shoot an email to your nearest Venture-Captain / Venture-Lieutenant who would be interested to hear how you're going, and if there's anything they can do to help.

Cheers,
--
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture-Captain, Melbourne Australia


Thanks. I guess I should run it by the book since I will be demoing the game and not running a home campaign.

While I do appreciate the fun some have with Society, it just went very badly for me. That would be a story for another time.

Lantern Lodge

I'm sure you already have ideas of what you'd like to run. The adventure included in the Beginner Box would be an obvious choice, but you might want to leave something for players who purchase the Beginner Box to explore themselves.

The Beginner Box Bash Demos were quick and fun to play.

We Be Goblins! while not using characters from the Beginner Box, is also crazy fun!

And although it's 3.5 and not yet converted to Pathfinder rules, I think Hollow's Last Hope might be good to run using Beginner Box rules.

I'm sorry Society didn't work for you, as there are some really fun scenarios, though as a GM you might need to reach beyond Beginner Box content for some of the monsters/opponents.

Anyway, I hope your Beginner Box game days run well. I'd be interested to hear what you run, and how it goes.


SgtHulka wrote:
If you're concerned about the simplicity of explaining feats and calculating the -8 penalty, another option would be to completely disallow firing into melee, forcing archers to draw their swords. That's how the old D&D Basic Game did it, but I'll admit it was easier in that game because there were no rules for stowing and drawing weapons (so everyone could be armed with bows, fire on the first round of combat, and automatically switch to sword and shield on the second round of combat).

For comparison, picture your living room or bedroom (a room roughly the size of a typical dungeon room or passageway)... now, picture your living room, with 8 or more people in it... then, picture those 8 or so people, fighting to the death: people are moving around, it's chaotic, it's messy, it's hard to concentrate, furniture is tipping over and breaking, people are screaming and swinging from the chandeliers.

Now, imagine you are one of those 8 or so people, fighting to the death in your living room... and, you've got a longbow, which is about as long as you are tall, and it takes a tremendous amount of concentration, skill, and upper-body strength to use the weapon... and imagine that you are trying to take a shot at just one little goblin-sized person in that chaos, without killing one of your friends in the process!

In that context, the -8 penalty makes a lot of sense.

As AdAstraGames pointed out with the explanation of allocating the extra archery feats, your PC archer can still be built to reflect the superhuman skill that successfully using a ranged weapon in the demanding situation of close melee combat wold require.

And, keep in mind there was a reason that the real-world tactics of archers and slingers would be to fire masses of arrows in the general direction of a distant enemy until they got too close, and then break formation and run for the hills... and also a reason that real-world archers would keep short swords as a more or less standard part of their equipment: bows and crossbows are not the most practical defensive weapons when it comes down to fighting in a melee.


AdAstraGames wrote:
That -4 can be gotten rid of by taking two feats: Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

Point Blank shot doesn't work that way in the Beginner Box, where rules are changed or simplified to fit the ease of learning. Precise Shot, on the other hand, does exactly what you say.


How does Point Blank Shot work in the Beginner Box? I'd be astonished if they changed that feat, given how simple it is (+1 to hit and damage with ranged weapons if the target is within 30' of you.)

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

PBS works just like how it is in the Core Rulebook: +1 attack and +1 damage within 30 feet.

Grand Lodge

The only real different between BB and Core is that in BB there is no prerequisite on Point Blank Shot in order to take Precise Shot in BB.

Mechanically the feats are the same.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

I'm pretty sure the "able to use a crossbow" prerequisite on the Beginner Box version of Precise Shot has been marked for errata, and should actually have Point Blank Shot as its prerequisite. ;)

Grand Lodge

Good to know Sean, thanks! :)

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