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Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
I removed some bickering. Flag it and move on, folks.

Ross, I know it can seem a strange request, but is possible to get a record in our own page of the posts that were removed? And maybe a red highlighting for the parts that made them removal worth?

I have noticed that a couple of mine have been removed, for some I get why, for other I am in doubt (citations of other removed posts? too aggressive? other reasons?). Sometime, if I return to a thread after a time I don't even recall what was in a removed post.

If it is not too much work it would be nice, as it would teach us what is the limit on the Paizo forum (probably I have some bad habit as I am used to the way more aggressive EVE forum).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

That's very simple: assume every post of yours will be deleted. That's how I do. :P


It explains much.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

4 people marked this as a favorite.

If a post gets removed most posts that quote it or are obvious replies to it are removed as well. So if you want to avoid getting your posts pulled don't reply to posts that are clearly going to be moderated (such as those from Gorbacz).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Dennis Baker wrote:
If a post gets removed most posts that quote it or are obvious replies to it are removed as well. So if you want to avoid getting your posts pulled don't reply to posts that are clearly going to be moderated (such as those from Gorbacz).

This is some very good advice, and I wish it was FAQ'd. ;-)


I agree with the OP. I've posted some bad things knowingly (a certain thread comes to mind), but the majority of stuff I post that gets deleted is stuff I didn't realize I shouldn't have posted.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

This is oddly a reason why private message functionality could be useful. The admins when deleting a post could send a PM to the offender why they deleted it. It could probably be autogenerated -- just as we hit a pulldown menu to note why we're flagging a thread, the admin could select from a list of reasons why something gets deleted so deleting the post still only takes (I would assume) a series of clicks.


DeathQuaker wrote:
This is oddly a reason why private message functionality could be useful. The admins when deleting a post could send a PM to the offender why they deleted it. It could probably be autogenerated -- just as we hit a pulldown menu to note why we're flagging a thread, the admin could select from a list of reasons why something gets deleted so deleting the post still only takes (I would assume) a series of clicks.

I agree with this.


Until they have a PM system, the admins do have the e-mail address used that's provided with the account you're using on this system. It could auto generate an option for them to send an e-mail if they so needed. Shouldn't be too difficult of a mod for PMG to code for such purposes.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's not that hard to avoid getting moderated.

  • Don't violate the board guidelines, they are linked below every post you make. The main one is "Don't be a jerk".
  • Don't reply to someone who violated the board guidelines. Flag it and move on.

    It's almost always obvious which threads are likely to get hit with moderation. If you lack the self control and can't avoid replying to jerks (or are Gorbacz) just copy your posts on 'hot topics' before you send them.


  • You forgot Sebastian. Don't upset the HJIC! ;-)

    Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Urizen wrote:
    You forgot Sebastian. Don't upset the HJIC! ;-)

    One of my rules in life is I try and never insult people who aren't in the 'room' to defend themselves*. Sebastian likely wouldn't mind the suggestion, but I like to give a guy a fighting chance.

    *:
    Heck, I wouldn't have made the comment about Gorbacz if he hadn't commented similarly above.

    **:
    Explosive Runes...

    What did you expect, there was no two '*' above to reference!


    Spoiler:
    I admit I had a bad feeling about what was behind **.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Spoiler:
    It got me as a complete surpise, I often check spoilers to * before reading an actual post.

    Now we put extra load of work on PMG and his minions. I don't think that I got any of my messages deleted but the idea with automated message containing deleted post flaged with exact reason is good one. While "don't be a jerk" note is a good guideline we have to remember that RPG gamers* are posting here - we are speaking about group not widely known for their highly developed social skills in Real Life mixed with social interaction complications brought by internet (and I am not refering to jerkness amplification effect of anonymity, just decreased recognition of emotions and reactions caused by lack of non-verbal communication).


    Having done "messageboard clean-up" myself in the past, I can tell you, this isn't going to happen. It takes enough time already to clean up the boards and monitor the threads for trouble. If every deleted post required figuring out a specific reason, and sending for an email, it would just make it a slower and more annoying process for the moderators. I'm guessing that they don't feel the need to spend more time explaining themselves and answering "why did you delete my post for profanity when I was clearly being a regular jerk, not a profane jerk?" questions.

    Note: My thoughts are based only on my own experiences and I don't pretend to know or speak for the real moderators here.


    Drejk wrote:

    ** spoiler omitted **

    Now we put extra load of work on PMC and his minions. I don't think that I got any of my messages deleted but the idea with automated message containing deleted post flaged with exact reason is good one. While "don't be a jerk" note is a good guideline we have to remember that RPG gamers* are posting here - we are speaking about group not widely known for their highly developed social skills in Real Life mixed with social interaction complications brought by internet (and I am not refering to jerkness amplification effect of anonymity, just decreased recognition of emotions and reactions caused by lack of non-verbal communication).

    Precisely this.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I'm with Fergie. A site as big as this one is already hard enough to keep clean, without the added work of explaining to argumentative people about why they lost their posts. You've already got people who are rude jerks to the actual high-ups at Paizo, even before you account for actually antagonistic ones. It isn't too hard to see that giving them something else to complain about offers a very low reward to risk ratio. So while it is a minor irritation to those who wouldn't use the service to be even larger pains in the arse, I don't see much benefit in changing it.

    Paizo Employee Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

    If its a longer post, especially with the potential to be reposted just fine without the offensive content, the moderators generally do try to email the poster with the contents of the removed post so the poster can edit it and repost.

    Cheliax

    Gorbacz wrote:
    That's very simple: assume every post of yours will be deleted.

    I think in the years I have been posting I had no deleted posts ... Until I lost one post early this week. I am still not sure what cost it to be deleted. I am also mostly sure I was not self medicated when I did post it. Unlike now.

    Woopeeeeee!

    Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

    baron arem heshvaun wrote:
    I think in the years I have been posting I had no deleted posts ... Until I lost one post early this week. I am still not sure what cost it to be deleted. I am also mostly sure I was not self medicated when I did post it. Unlike now.

    You've had a couple, usually because you were replying to posts that themselves were moderated. The most recent one, though, linked to a site that's full of copyright violations, which Chris Lambertz mentioned in the thread after she deleted it.


    Has anyone ever tried a "I have diplomatic immunity, you can't mod me" thing?

    Andoran

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Even a simple automatically generated e-mail with the text of the moderated post would be useful.
    Re-reading what we wrote with a clear mind could make us realize where we were wrong.
    If we go with what we remember of our posting we can miss why it was removed.

    That is, if this don't require too much work.

    And Sara and Vic, thank for the replies.

    Cheliax

    Vic Wertz wrote:
    You've had a couple, usually because you were replying to posts that themselves were moderated.

    Le ouch! Ignorance was bliss!

    Paizo Employee Developer

    5 people marked this as a favorite.

    We'd much prefer folks didn't make posts that needed moderation rather than put even more work into dealing with those who do. If you want to know why a post was removed, read the staff member's post in the thread indicating that posts were hidden. In general, we remind the thread of the rules being violated when we remove content.

    Wouldn't everyone rather we spend our time making new products, improving the community experience, and otherwise serving our customers than taking on addition work to give people violating our terms and conditions a record of the content that did so?

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
    Mark Moreland wrote:

    We'd much prefer folks didn't make posts that needed moderation rather than put even more work into dealing with those who do. If you want to know why a post was removed, read the staff member's post in the thread indicating that posts were hidden. In general, we remind the thread of the rules being violated when we remove content.

    Wouldn't everyone rather we spend our time making new products, improving the community experience, and otherwise serving our customers than taking on addition work to give people violating our terms and conditions a record of the content that did so?

    It's called capitalism. You're getting a nice dump of $$$ from me every month, including overseas shipping fees and whatanot. I can live with some of that being spent on axing my posts. Conscious consumer, or something like that :)


    I understand where you are coming from, Mark, and you have some good points. The issue is that a lot of stuff that needs moderation, at least in my case, is stuff I didn't realize I shouldn't be doing. I've had some intentional douchebaggery (which won't be happening any more, because I value my spot in the Paizo community more than I do the results of trolling), but that is the minority of what I've had deleted. Ideally, you wouldn't have to clean up after us, but we aren't perfect at all, and we don't always realize how far we're going.


    Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    If you are not aware of the rules, may I recommend reading them?

    They are linked to in the same paragraph as the most important rules, for handy-dandy checking.


    C. Nutcase wrote:
    Has anyone ever tried a "I have diplomatic immunity, you can't mod me" thing?

    I tried that once. It didn't work out so well...


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Kelsey, I'm not at all familiar with your posting history, so none of this night be relevant to you, but here are some of the most common reasons I've seen posts deleted and how to avoid them:

  • Don't use the words "gay" or "retarded" in a derogatory fashion.

  • Don't refer to easily overpowering an encounter as "rape."

  • Don't advocate piracy, offer to share your PDFs with someone, or post Paizo art or cartography online and link to it.

  • Don't insult other posters or imply that they are evil or stupid or "doing it wrong" for not sharing your opinion or point of view.

    The big one:

  • If someone else is doing any of these things, DO NOT REPLY TO THEM. Do not argue with them. Do not quote what they have said. Just flag the post and wait for the staff to take action. If you respond to something that is going to be moderated, your post will be moderated as well because it makes no sense to have a series of posts responding to a post which is now not viewable, even if you are 100% right. As difficult as it is, you will just have to let someone be wrong on the internet until the Paizo staff have time to review it. Paizo really doesn't need "help" beyond the flag system to moderate their boards.


  • My issue is unintentional flame bait (there has been some intentional bait, but that's not happening again) and responding to things that end up moderated, I think. Judging what is and isn't good to post is not always easy for me.

    Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

    I think 90% of moderation is failure to follow the rule which is listed immediately below the submit button. "Don't be a jerk".

    The other 10% I imagine is a mix of things like adult topics, copyright violation, etc..


    Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Dennis Baker wrote:

    I think 99% of moderation is failure to follow the rule which is listed immediately below the submit button. "Don't be a jerk".

    The other 10% I imagine is a mix of things like adult topics, copyright violation, etc..

    Where's the -9% coming into play?


    Cheapy wrote:
    Dennis Baker wrote:

    I think 99% of moderation is failure to follow the rule which is listed immediately below the submit button. "Don't be a jerk".

    The other 10% I imagine is a mix of things like adult topics, copyright violation, etc..

    Where's the -9% coming into play?

    Those are the edits after the fact.

    Edit: Removed 90% of the original text of this post.

    Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

    I think the other 9% are people who prowl the forums with nitpicky replies before someone has a chance to edit them.

    Paizo Employee Developer

    4 people marked this as a favorite.

    Another important distinction: Moderators here are not just moderators. They do a bunch of other jobs, so anytime they're needed takes away from more productive work.

    Also, they are not therapists, parents, or village elders; folks need to know what's positive and what's negative on their own.

    Shadow Lodge

    Mark Moreland wrote:
    If you want to know why a post was removed, read the staff member's post in the thread indicating that posts were hidden.

    Why am I suddenly imagining a 'Hide Post' pony being in the works?

    Paizo Employee PostMonster General

    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    Mark said "hidden" rather than "removed" because moderators can still see the posts that have been removed.

    I have spent a bunch of time today removing posts and would like to point out that in addition to the above observations about time spent cleaning stuff up, it turns out that if you tell everybody about every single post removal it tends to raise the grar level in general. If someone makes a "I'm getting popcorn because this thread just got nice and ugly" post and we remove it, there's really no reason to email that person about that. They knew the thread was going to get cleaned up and posted anyway, and that their post was going to get removed as part of the cleanup. Sending an email just provides another opportunity for a "Hey I just got silenced by the evil moderators" discussion that really doesn't help anybody and actively makes things worse than a simple removal and cleanup note posted in the thread.

    Andoran

    I don't know if my inbox could handle that many e-mails...

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    I think the last thing we all want are the paizo staff taking time to hold hands about posting. I would rather them work on the things they are supposed to work on which make the company great. If your post get removed and you don't know why, don't worry about it. There was a reason, just do your best to try to follow the rules. If it keeps happening, examine your posting style.

    Heck, I can imagine there may be removal by mistake, but I really would rather see that PM ability, rather than have Gary spend all his time discussing mistaken post removals. Just move along people. Its an internet message board. it's not that vital to your existence.

    Spoiler:
    Expecting the eventual TOZ posting saying YES IT IS, but hopefully it will get removed without comment.

    PS, if your posts KEEP getting removed and you can't figure out why, stop posting on internet message boards.


    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    But ... but ... sometimes you just have to post ...


    3 people marked this as a favorite.

    I'm one of the more callous posters here, and am routinely humbled by the fact that the moderators don't gloat. The PF forum is by far the most correctly run, professional forum on the Internet.


    cranewings wrote:
    I'm one of the more callous posters here, and am routinely humbled by the fact that the moderators don't gloat. The PF forum is by far the most correctly run, professional forum on the Internet.

    Indeed. Now if only they used better forum software.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    I dunno. I find it to be one of the most legible ones I've used. Certainly better than what KQ or ENWorld uses. And since it's custom, they can add cool stuff to it (relatively) easily.


    Really? I hate this forum software for a lot of different reasons; I'd much rather they used vBulletin.

    What's KQ?

    Paizo Employee PostMonster General

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    We're not changing our forum software.


    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I've spent time on the old Code Monkey Publishing forums, EN World, and Lone Wolf Development. I find this one infinitely more readable.

    (KQ = Kobold Quarterly.)

    Qadira

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Gary Teter wrote:
    We're not changing our forum software.

    No other software could handle FAWTL's insane blitzs.

    FIFY ;)

    Silver Crusade

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

    Paizo forum code fools my jobplace's "no phpbb NUHNUHNUH" filter, and that's fine enough for me.


    Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

    vBulletin? Means nothing to me, I don't maintain forums. What site uses vBulletin?


    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    This is vBulletin, assuming they use their own software for their forums.

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