Attacks of Opportunity (& Gunslinger's Pistol Whip)

[Avatar-1]

Had some confusion over the nature of an attack of opportunity.

The round went like this:

Gunslinger's turn
Move action - move up to bad guy
Standard action - ready a shot if he made any sort of attack (asked him to surrender)

Bad guy's turn
Free action - dropped his weapon
Standard action - started to disarm Gunslinger

that caused the readied action to go off, and since he didn't have improved disarm, the gunslinger was also allowed an attack of opportunity. Except not really, because the gun is a ranged weapon, but wait, the gunslinger has Pistol Whip, which allows the gunslinger to make a melee attack with it (and if it hits, to knock them prone).

The argument is, Pistol Whip is a "standard action" and an AoO is an "attack action". However, Pistol Whip is also fairly specifically a melee attack. So is it allowed?

Comparisons were also made with Charge, Feint and Grapple, but charge requires a run-up, and both feint and grapple are described as "standard actions" while Disarm and a few others are described as "attack actions in place of a melee attack".

[edwardcd]

This is really a rules question, not really a PFS question (even if it happened during a PFS game)...

Though...

I'd allow the gunslinger the attack of opportunity since using a gunslinger's grit allows them to use their pistol butt or handle as a melee attack. A melee attack is a standard action, and only melee attacks can be used in attacks of opportunity (unless you have a feat that allows a different form of attack as an attack of opportunity).

Regarding the held action, I'd have the bad guy roll a bluff check to see if the gunslinger's held action would go before the bad guy tried to disarm.

IF the gunslinger was not bluffed...
Gunslinger gets to use their held action.. shoot (before bad guy tries to disarm)
AND Gunslinger gets to use grit to perform Pistol Whip... as an attack of opportunity as the bad guy tries to disarm - if pistol whip is successful, the bad guy does not get to disarm and could be on the ground depending).

IF the gunslinger was bluffed...
Gunslinger does not use their held action.
Gunslinger gets to use grit to perform Pistol Whip... as an attack of opportunity as the bad guy tries to disarm - if pistol whip is successful, the bad guy does not get to disarm and could be on the ground depending).

[Avatar-1]

Sorry, I've moved the thread to the rules forum. Didn't even realise it existed.

The issue isn't with whether he was assumed to have surrendered or not (the ready action was still in play; the bad guy's turn wasn't over, and it hadn't gotten to the beginning of the gunslinger's turn yet).

[TwilightKnight]

I flagged this thread so hopefully it can be moved and we won't lose the posts so far...

I think it would be reasonable for the enemy to try and employ a Bluff attempt to deceive you into mis-reading his actions as surrender, until it was too late to react and take your attack of opportunity. edwardcd seemed to have a good solution.

Of course, if the GM (acting as the enemy) failed to think of Bluffing you, then sure, I would have no problem with the AoO.

[Avatar-1]

Let me put it another way (although Bob you may have sort of answered the question), let's assume a different situation.

A gunslinger gets an AoO on a bad guy (for whatever reason, moving through a threatened area will do).

Can the gunslinger use pistol whip to take that AoO? Or not, because Pistol Whip requires a standard action (and not an "attack action")?

Again, this is considering the comparisons about certain actions being talked about as "standard actions" and others being talked about as "attack actions in place of a melee attack".

[Nickademus42]

Avatar-1 wrote:

Had some confusion over the nature of an attack of opportunity.

The round went like this:

Gunslinger's turn
Move action - move up to bad guy
Standard action - ready a shot if he made any sort of attack (asked him to surrender)

Bad guy's turn
Free action - dropped his weapon
Standard action - started to disarm Gunslinger

that caused the readied action to go off, and since he didn't have improved disarm, the gunslinger was also allowed an attack of opportunity. Except not really, because the gun is a ranged weapon, but wait, the gunslinger has Pistol Whip, which allows the gunslinger to make a melee attack with it (and if it hits, to knock them prone).

The argument is, Pistol Whip is a "standard action" and an AoO is an "attack action". However, Pistol Whip is also fairly specifically a melee attack. So is it allowed?

Attack of opportunity has nothing to do with it. You get to shoot him due to his attack-like action (the disarm) triggering your readied action, which would provoke from him but he probably doesn't have Improved Unarmed Strike. After your shot, he gets to continue his disarm attempt.

Since Pistol Whip is a standard action, you would not get to use it for the AoO. But had you readied your action to 'ready an attack if he made any sort of attack (asked him to surrender)', you could have gotten away with the Pistol Whip since you ready a standard action with the ready action.

[TwilightKnight]

okay Avatar-1, you forced me to review the books. It looks like pistol whip is classified as a standard action in the way a grapple, or overrun, or bull rush. So in that case, I would have to say, no, you cannot use it as part of an AoO.

[Avatar-1]

Thanks Bob.

Nickademus/edwardcd - the only question here is about the allowance of the attack of opportunity, the readied action is just something else that was happening at the time. They're two separate attacks in this situation, and the readied action isn't in dispute.

[Azmyth]

The 'Slinger doesn't threaten (due to his range weapon) in this example, so he does not get the AoO, only the readied action.
Regardless of special maneuvers that can be taken with his weapon, he doesn't get to use them on an AoO. This is similar to using your crossbow as a makeshift club...