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RPG Superstar 2015

Raptoring Gloves


Round 1 - Open Call: Design a wondrous item

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Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Raptoring Gloves
Aura moderate conjuration and transmutation; CL 5th (lesser), 9th (standard), 13th (greater)
Slot hands; Price 3,500 gp (lesser), 24,000 gp (standard), 45,000 gp (greater); Weight 1 lb.
Description
These heavy-duty, tan gloves fit loosely over the wearer’s hands. Once per day, the wearer can summon one or more flying raptors: lesser gloves summon an eagle for 1 minute; standard gloves summon a pteradon or 2 eagles for 5 minutes; and greater gloves summon a roc, 2 pteradons, or 4 eagles for 10 minutes. Removing the gloves dismisses the summoned creature(s).
If the wearer has a bird of prey or flying dinosaur animal companion or familiar, she may use the gloves each day to grant an enhancement bonus to the creature’s attack and damage rolls (lesser: +1; standard: +2; greater: +3) for 8 hours or until she removes the gloves, whichever occurs first. She may choose to use the gloves for summoning or augmenting, but not both during the same day.
Raptoring gloves also grant a taste of a flying raptor’s abilities. All raptoring gloves allow the wearer to feather fall up to 3 times per day. Standard gloves allow the use of fly for 30 minutes per day (with a +4 bonus to Fly skill checks), while greater gloves grant overland flight for 8 hours (+6 bonus to Fly skill checks); this time need not be used all at once, but must be taken in 10-minute increments. While flying, the wearer gains a +5 enhancement bonus to Perception checks.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, fly (all), greater magic fang (all), summon nature’s ally I (lesser), summon nature’s ally IV (standard), summon nature’s ally VII (greater); Cost 1,750 gp (lesser), 12,000 gp (standard), 22,500 gp (greater)

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Wow. That's a lot of raptoring. Kind of a SAK item, but some of that's owing to the variations of the theme. This is probably one of the first multi-items I've liked in awhile. Usually, it detracts so much, I'm just not as interested. I never really saw pteranadons as raptors, but yeah, okay...prehistoric ones, sure. I still think the theme would be stronger if it was hawks, eagles, rocs. Or rock, paper, scissors. Hah!

But I digress. So, it summons these creatures for 1/5/10 minutes depending on which version of the gloves you have. That might be a bit much when you can use that in 1-minute intervals. That means the roc summoning version is going to get trotted out in just about every combat of an adventuring day.

I don't know. I'm not enthused by it. And, a lot of the SAK effects are just SIACs. The attention to detail here is pretty strong, though. The designer knows what they're doing (mostly). The question is whether or not the core idea is strong enough to champion into the Keep folder.

I'm feeling generous. So, I'll say...

...Weak Keep.

CEO, Goblinworks

This item is a series of monsters-in-cans, and has a swiss-army-knife ability tacked on as well. So that would normally get a thumbs down vote from me. In this case I responded to how well the designer had done in presentation and in addressing the complexities of this item. That shows me that the designer has a great grasp of the whole game and how to write for it. I want to see more.

I recommend that you vote for this designer.

Contributor

Let's just look at the greater gloves.

Once per day, the wearer can summon one or more flying raptors: lesser gloves summon an eagle for 1 minute; standard gloves summon a pteradon or 2 eagles for 5 minutes; and greater gloves summon a roc, 2 pteradons, or 4 eagles for 10 minutes.

Roc = summon nature's ally VII. That spell once per day is 7 x 13 x 1800 / 5 = 32,760 gp. And it lasts 13 rounds.

13 rounds = 32,760 gp.
10 minutes = 45,000 gp.

No.

Overland flight for 8 hours = 5 x 9 x 1800 / 5 = 16,200, x 1.5 for a secondary property = 24,300 gp.

So the cost on the greater gloves is way, way off, and not in a way that I can forgive. If it's a spell X/day, it's easy to follow the formula... and apparently the designer didn't consider that summoning something for 10 minutes is very different than the round-based duration of the summoning spells.

Reject.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Man, I am with Sean on this one.

Reject.

Neil, you are way over-generous with this.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

Hey, I said Weak Keep. And, in fact, I've been looking back over all the items in the Keep folder today and this one will not make my Top 32...or my alternate list either. Someone will have to champion this item with a "golden ticket" for the designer to make it into the competition. Ryan has the strongest Keep vote on this thing. So, maybe he'll deem it worthy...?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Jatori

Welcome to the Top 32!

Sean, Clark, and Neil have made their views clear, yet here you are. You might be this year's underdog and, as a result, may have the most to prove in the next round. You've made a number of glaring errors (pricing and power), but, at its core, you still have a creative item that can be used by almost any character. Further, different classes and builds gain different benefits (summoning, companion buffs, flight). It's not easy creating an item that could appeal to every member of a party.

Show us a Superstar organisation in round 2.

RPG Superstar 2011 aka Ignotus

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Pathfinder is part of a storied tradition of gaming full of strange things wizards made because they got high and started enchanting. They help fantasy gaming feel like fantasy gaming, and this item fits right in. Sometimes you just have a problem that is best solved by throwing a lot of angry birds at it. Ahem.

So, yes, kind of a spell in a can, kind of a swiss army knife, don’t really care because it made me smile and fits seamlessly into Pathfinder while still feeling unusual. This is a good illustration of how the guidelines of RPG Superstar can be broken by someone who knows what they’re doing in the service of making something that really feels like it belongs in the game. The catch, however, is that if you’re going to do something like this that works within existing material, you had better show yourself to be a master of that material, because you will be extended less benefit of the doubt than someone treading into creative new territory. Here there’s a lot of good writing and attention to detail, but also some notable power/pricing issues, and maybe a little gilding the lily in terms of the sheer volume of STUFF on the gloves.

I would also suggest thinking about what the different durations say about the purpose of the item. 1 minute = combat only. 10 minutes, usable in 1-minute increments = use this in every combat every day. If the time limit is on the long side, but indivisible, it encourages the PCs to use this to solve problems and otherwise think creatively to use their bird powers for good - or it encourages them to blitz on to the next situation without lots of boring planning, another source of entertainment. So that approach might have been more effective here.

My guess is that this designer would only be OK at making new character classes and monsters stat blocks, but great at writing organizations, NPCs, and modules. I look forward to finding out.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka DankeSean

What I like:
While this feels like it could be considered a grab-bag of powers, you definitely kept tight to your core theme here without letting yourself go too far astray.
What I love:
Normally I'm not a fan of entries that include multiple varieties of the item in the write-up. I'm honestly not a fan of that here, even; I think you could have picked one variety and done just as well- but I'm very impressed that you were able to present these three variants as cleanly and simply as you did; it's clear from the first paragraph that there are multiple items contained in this, and you do an excellent job of making it clear how the three items are different. That's something that often fails in the presentation, so well done on your part.
What needs a little sumptin' sumptin'...
While I do appreciate the tight theming, this just doesn't really stand out to me as an 'exciting' item in terms of the powers it has. There's probably a lot more stuff going on as far as what the gloves can do than is really, IMO, needed, and then the stuff it can do is basically a bunch of spell replicas. That's not bad, it's just not something that grabs me.
All in all...
Swiss army knife or not, you're in. Clearly the judges see your potential. Like I said above, I think the strongest aspect of this entry was the clarity of your writing and presentation (by which I mean more than, 'this contestant can follow the format'); if that's a consistent strength of yours, by all means keep at it. You're capable of presenting a lot of information in a very clear and concise manner; a lot of contestants (myself included) would envy that. For your round 2 entry, I'd say go full throttle with the creativity while still keeping the clarity and you'll be in good shape. Congratulations and welcome to RPG Superstar!


Aawwwwwwright! Way to finally break in, Honey Badgah! Put on your humility mask and wow them like you did Randall in your documentary for round two.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

It's been a long time coming, Mike. Your hard work paid off. :-)

Spoiler:

Now, let's see what you've got for Round 2. ;-)

The Exchange

BADGAHBADGAHBADGAHBADGAHBADGAHBADGAHBADGAH!!!!!!

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Thank you, everyone! Judges, thank you for your comments about my item, and thank you also for the opportunity to move forward. I see that I really have to make a Superstar impression with my organization.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2013

Awesome stuff, Mike!

Publisher, Clockwork Gnome Publishing

Congrats! This is great news. Good luck in future rounds, Mike.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow, sounds like you just scraped in Mike, but awesome stuff none-the-less. Best of luck going forward man.


I don't like this one either for reasons already mentioned, but you made it, and that is all that matters. I wish you luck in round 2.


Congrats, Mike!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Way to go!!!

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8 aka Benchak the Nightstalker

Can somebody make this PFS legal? I really need a pair for my Falconer!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Congrats Badger. You kick ass!!!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The way I see it, Pork and Beans is a cloudkill spell in a can, but it sure is tasty!

Star Voter 2013

Mike Welham wrote:
Once per day, the wearer can summon one or more flying raptors...

This sentance is so much more fun without the context that raptors are a type of hunting birds. ;)

Still, there's a little more than a little questionable rules-fu here. Better pull out the big guns for next rounds.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Mike, glad your hard work paid off. I think it's no secret that you didn't have all the judges with you on this--BUT we all thought it worthwhile to keep your item around to sort through later. So don't take some of our comments too hard. That is just how picky we are. Literally, we are killers on these items. Getting all of us to like all top 32 has NEVER happened in the history of the contest as far as I know. Clean slate, you've got as much chance as anyone. Go get it!

Paizo Employee Developer , Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Mike, my drake brother! Congrats! Now go get yourself that module!

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't like this item. Its got way too many effects and doesn't seem to flow well. The effects jar with existing magic items.

Amulet of might fist: +1 version is 5K, +2 version is 20K, +3 version is 45K. These gloves allow the wearer to give their animal companion both the enhancement bonus and additional effects by trading slots, and investing in these gloves is more cost effective for the level 1 version and the same for the level 3. There is no reason to choose +3 AMF over these gloves.

Winged Boots: 16k - allow 3 5 minute casting times of flight. Here you get 3 10 minute intervals for 24K. This is a reasonable price in and of itself just for this 1 effect.

And Sean goes into the problems with the summoning spells.

This doesn't seem superstar to me at all. Way too many design flaws, and it shows a lack of understanding of existing material.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Congratulations Mike, and best of luck in the next contest!

The Exchange

Very cool Item Mike.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Can't wait to see wat you come up with next Badger. Should be cool.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka flash_cxxi

Awesome work Mike!

2012 is the Year of the Badger right? All the way to the White House from here. :)

EDIT: My Pen and Papaer Character wants me to thank you for these. Her Familiar has been pestering her about getting them. :)


I like the idea presented here. The summoning function is one I know I could have fun with. There are a lot of effects to juggle, but they tie together well.

I think it was a trap to present a lesser, standard and greater version of this item. It multiplied the complexity and made the block difficult to read. I kept feeling the temptation to just pass over the rest, and you don't want a reader passing over your item!

I'm glad you have a pass to continue, though. I hope you go far!

Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Congratulations Mike,
We have been warned away from the lesser, greater items and you managed to pull it off. I think a bit of playtesting mght have helped, the timing is long, but who would not want a raptor on their side? And summoning a dinosaur? I'm all for that! Good luck! :)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Regarding the Greater version, Wings of Flying, which has the same "you can fly all the time" effect, costs 54K. With an 8 hour duration that can be split into 10 minute groups, is anyone really ever going to run out? It's effectively unlimited use flying, plus a slew of other abilities, for cheaper than existing items.

Judging the Lesser version alone, I think it is fine if a tad undercosted. By the time Medium and Greater come along, it's gone wildly off the rails in terms of cost. Beyond that, it does too much and is generally just kind of SAK. This may mechanically be my least favorite item, and is in the bottom quarter in terms of flavor and intangibles.


Oooh! It's the badger! Bundle!!!!!


Ask A Succubus Flag-waver wrote:

Oooh! It's the badger! Bundle!!!!!

Is it actually fair to threadjack the poor mustelid like this?


Ask a Succubus wrote:
Ask A Succubus Flag-waver wrote:

Oooh! It's the badger! Bundle!!!!!

Is it actually fair to threadjack the poor mustelid like this?

Hey, it's not like this is a voting round, and we know him.


Ask A Succubus Flag-waver wrote:
Ask a Succubus wrote:
Ask A Succubus Flag-waver wrote:

Oooh! It's the badger! Bundle!!!!!

Is it actually fair to threadjack the poor mustelid like this?

Hey, it's not like this is a voting round, and we know him.

Which fact I suspect the poor fellow may be regretting right now. He might well have gone to ground with Mrs. Taig in their set, and is cringing horribly.


But we should be lining up behind him, to support him!


Obviously, we're succubi and don't mind other succubi being behind us, but it tends to make some mortals rather... jumpy.


Moi? Make mortals jumpy?


Well yes, dear. Not everyone appreciates your rather cutting-edge fashion tastes.


On which note, in a moment I'm going to start cutting stuff...


Oooh, can I quote you on...
This post was censored by Ask A Succubus Censor, making (non)sense since whenever.

Scarab Sages

This seems to be multiple interesting magic items rolled into one.

A glove that summons raptors is cool (and there was one last year, IIRC, in the top 32, although it only manifested a hawk-visual while attempting a ranged disarm). [I could be making this all up. I'm too lazy to go look at least years entries...]

A glove (or shoulder piece or crook-staff it perches upon, or leg-wrapping for the bird) that buffs a bird companion or familiar, is also cool, if somewhat overly specific.

A glove that does both of those things, *and* has some flight-related abilities, feels like an overreach. I'm also one of those freaks who prefers that items have some sort of theme. 'Gloves of flying' doesn't work for me as well as a cape of flying or boots of air-walking. But that's just a personal quirk, and not a valid criticism. :)

And now I wonder why there are no feather tokens that summon birds? Isn't that, like, a no-brainer, to have a feather that turns into an eagle or giant eagle for an hour? Now I'm jonesing for the old 'Tenser's Hunting Hawk' spell, that turned a fired arrow into an angry hawk that continued attacking whomever you shot with it for X rounds. Way cooler than that arrow-to-snake concept from the Conan movie!


Chaos! Chaos! (Now it hardly makes sense for a (very advanced) succubus to call for order, too often, does it now?) I have seniority on this forum, and I just want to get on with a review, before any more of the sisterhood show up. Not that I don't appreciate the support, but still...


Onwards, with the review!

Mike Welham wrote:

Raptoring Gloves

Aura moderate conjuration and transmutation; CL 5th (lesser), 9th (standard), 13th (greater)
Slot hands; Price 3,500 gp (lesser), 24,000 gp (standard), 45,000 gp (greater); Weight 1 lb.
Description
These heavy-duty, tan gloves fit loosely over the wearer’s hands. Once per day, the wearer can summon one or more flying raptors: lesser gloves summon an eagle for 1 minute; standard gloves summon a pteradon or 2 eagles for 5 minutes; and greater gloves summon a roc, 2 pteradons, or 4 eagles for 10 minutes. Removing the gloves dismisses the summoned creature(s).
If the wearer has a bird of prey or flying dinosaur animal companion or familiar, she may use the gloves each day to grant an enhancement bonus to the creature’s attack and damage rolls (lesser: +1; standard: +2; greater: +3) for 8 hours or until she removes the gloves, whichever occurs first. She may choose to use the gloves for summoning or augmenting, but not both during the same day.
Raptoring gloves also grant a taste of a flying raptor’s abilities. All raptoring gloves allow the wearer to feather fall up to 3 times per day. Standard gloves allow the use of fly for 30 minutes per day (with a +4 bonus to Fly skill checks), while greater gloves grant overland flight for 8 hours (+6 bonus to Fly skill checks); this time need not be used all at once, but must be taken in 10-minute increments. While flying, the wearer gains a +5 enhancement bonus to Perception checks.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, fly (all), greater magic fang (all), summon nature’s ally I (lesser), summon nature’s ally IV (standard), summon nature’s ally VII (greater); Cost 1,750 gp (lesser), 12,000 gp (standard), 22,500 gp (greater)

Disclaimer:

This post constitutes the views of a (very advanced) CE aligned succubus. Being such, Ask A RPGSupersuccubus is at complete liberty to change her mind on anything without giving any notice whatsoever. For those of you who missed last year (or as a reminder for those whose memories have failed) Ask A RPGSupersuccubus subscribes absolutely to balance, fairness is a term applicable to assessing either hair colour or more general beauteousness, and logic in these reviews – in the sense that balance is what a couple of mortals on opposite ends of a plank pivoted on a rocky spire above a drop of several hundred feet into a pool of molten basalt frantically try to do, fairness is a term used to assess hair coloration and logic is something which proves anything a demon of adequate status and charm requires it to demonstrate.

Note:
Ask A RPGSupersuccubus acknowledges the efforts of the ready supply of willing victims on the ‘Nine Blazing Months’ items thread, who inadvertently contributed to the development of weapons-grade questions for use in this round.

Fair is foul and foul is fair supposedly (trust a mortal to make up a piece of complete mumbo-jumbo – it is of course generally impossible to get anything much fairer in any context which actually matters than a succubus). Basically, though, does this item have any useful application in a spa?
Heavy duty tan gloves do not fit in in a spa. Dinosaurs tend not to, either, except at certain very private functions. And just forget eagles.

Assuming for a moment that it’s more convenient to pay taxes than to circumvent the system, does this item look likely to be a tax-deductible business expense for a succubus art-dealer?
Not unless one is a 'novelty themed' art dealer. And again, the fact that they're heavy duty tan gloves hardly makes them suitable accoutrements for most ladies of refinement. (Honestly, what is it with all the 'bodyguard or minion only' items this year; why does there seem to be so little appreciation for succubi thus far, or is it just that contestants are so overawed by us that they feel incapable of developing items suited to our use?)

Is the item useful in a strawberries-and-cream-tea context?
How many different ways are there to say 'no'? Non, niet, minime... oh wait. Ahhhh. I of course overlooked Parvatili's third general rule of cream teas. Alright, the item does have certain applications, but a lady certainly wouldn't go into them on a public thread like this without very good cause.

Other Comments?
Succubi do not need to fly. Succubi seldom need to featherfall. Alright, the 'eagle-eyed' sharpening of the senses could be handy if it works when one is flying by means of wings which are a part of one's natural form...

Gollum Rating:
Ratings of items are prosaic and unfashionably conventional this year. Although rules are there to be broken (so long as they do not involve the dread lord, Orcus) as a general rule no items will thus be rated this year.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Now that I'm down to the final editing pass for my organization and real world work obligations are done, I can finally stop in and discuss my item.

For this contest, I "over-engineer" my items. Years two and three featured complicated items no one would have wanted to use. During year four, I finally got settled in terms of theme, but I mangled the hell out of the writing. This year, my focus was on a good central theme and a clear, concise description. I got it 3/4 right. :)

I made an error in judgement adding the flight ability to the gloves. I should have left that out, or I really should have scaled it back. It fits the theme of the gloves, relatively speaking, but I should have left it at summoning and augmenting raptors, as opposed to augmenting the wearer.

I should shorten the summoning time for the standard and greater. My thought was that it was a once/day thing, but, as Sam pointed out, the gloves will only be used for one combat, so the amount of time really shouldn't be so large. If I had to do it over, I'd probably increase the number of times per day (1 for lesser, 2 for standard, 3 for greater) and significantly decrease the amount of time.

As far as the augmenting function of the gloves goes, the application is so narrow (requires a raptor companion or familiar), it really doesn't come close to an amulet of mighty fists. The other limitation I put on it is the requirement to leave the gloves on; otherwise the bonus goes away.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd also like to thank everyone who commented, especially those with critiques regarding the raptoring gloves. I enjoy seeing critical feedback, because it helps me grow as a designer, and magic items are not really a design space I work in much.

Craig and Benjamin, I'm glad I created an item your characters can use (OK, after a lot of cleanup). I think some of our items appear in the upcoming equipment book, unless I hallucinated that. Assuming the gloves make it into that book, they should end up being PFS legal.

To the judges who, maybe despite their better judgment, selected me as a Top 32 contestant, I truly hope I validate your choice with my organization.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

I'd be remiss in not thanking RPGSupersuccubus, whose advice will most certainly help in later rounds of the contest...assuming I make it past the Organization round. Luckily, I had a spare drawer in my filing cabinet which helped me get organized. :)

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