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Orc bump?


Advanced Race Guide Playtest


I am working on a character concept involving an Orc Hex-crafter.

Now I know that the "Race" rules are not finished yet, but during the play test I noticed that Orc fall in the 6RP range, when compared to other base races at 10RP.

I wanted to make sure he's balanced with the other characters, but didn't want to just dump the disadvantages (light sensitivity etc) as they are so much a part of Orc "flavor"...

So I spent last night reading all the fluff text in Orcs of Galorian, and comparing them to racial abilities available....I came up with these two

Plague born: Orcs gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease, ingested poisons, and becoming nauseated or sickened.

Fearless: Orcs gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear.

Does adding those to the existing Orc stats look reasonable ?


Also, chime in if you feel the Orc is balanced against other races "as is"......


I always picture Orcs as essentially craven, so the Fearless ability doesn't seem right to me. How about instead giving them a Teamwork feat, in line with their tendency to fight in hordes? Or a renamed Desert Runner ability?

Lantern Lodge

orcs despite thier Low RP value are actually stronger than the core races.

they get a massive bonus to strength with a penalty to all mental stats. they get diehard for free, they get free proficiency in the best core 2hander, regardless of class.

they don't need to be buffed. the paragon array is WAY underpriced.


They're solid as fighters and Barbarians, yeah; but fighters and Barbarians already have Falchion proficiency. Otherwise, they can be powerful STR-based Rogues, but I'd say they're basically already balanced against core races.

First-level Orc Barbarian (15pt)

HP 15, AC 16 (chain shirt), 40ft move speed

STR 22
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 5
WIS 5
CHA 5

Raging str: 26 (+8)

1st level feat: power attack

So, assuming rage:

+9 to hit (2d4+12) (18-20/x2)
or +8 to hit(2d4+15) (18-20/x2)

Is there ANYTHING level-appropriate you can reasonably throw at this guy without him one-shotting it?

I'd say that's fine balance; or at least not underpowered

And Orcs in D&D-verse have never really been cowardly. In fact, in golarion setting they're freaking insane, and scoff at death


Irulesmost wrote:
In fact, in golarion setting they're freaking insane, and scoff at death

Well, unless their battle standard should happen to be torn down. /wink

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

I just change their modifiers to STR +2, WIS +2, INT -2 and take off Light Sensitivity for player-oriented orcs. (that and shift the general alignment to CN)


Mikaze wrote:
I just change their modifiers to STR +2, WIS +2, INT -2 and take off Light Sensitivity for player-oriented orcs. (that and shift the general alignment to CN)

I would have gone Str +2, Con +2, Int -2 personally.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Arikiel wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
I just change their modifiers to STR +2, WIS +2, INT -2 and take off Light Sensitivity for player-oriented orcs. (that and shift the general alignment to CN)
I would have gone Str +2, Con +2, Int -2 personally.

Can't help but feel it frontloads 'em on the physical end. One of the complaints a number of GMs have made about orcs as-is is that they feel like a "min-maxer/hack'n'slash"-choice race, whether unfairly or not*, because they lean so hard on a physical stat bonus while dumping all of their mentals.

Just feel following the Core race standard of splitting the two bonuses up between one physical and one mental makes the race(and the societies they develop in-world) more rounded, and opens them up to more class possibilities rather than pushing them too hard towards others. Do agree though that if any mental stat should take a hit, it should be INT.

*honestly lean towards "unfairly", though I do prefer them as rounded out on both ends.


Mikaze wrote:

Can't help but feel it frontloads 'em on the physical end. One of the complaints a number of GMs have made about orcs as-is is that they feel like a "min-maxer/hack'n'slash"-choice race, whether unfairly or not, because they lean so hard on a physical stat bonus while dumping all of their mentals.

Just feel following the Core race standard of splitting the two bonuses up between one physical and one mental makes the race(and the societies they develop in-world) more rounded, and opens them up to more class possibilities rather than pushing them too hard towards others. Do agree though that if any mental stat should take a hit, it should be INT.

I see your point. Not sure them being frontloaded is necessarily a problem per say. They are supposed to be a very brutish shall we say. I suppose it comes down to what you want the Orcs in your world to be like.

I do kind of like the CN idea. Always hated the idea of them being comically evil for the sake of evil. Most of the time they're just written up as cannon fodder that exists solely to slain by the heros. I guess it's the Shadowrun in me but Orcz is peepuls too darnit! :p

PS In my games I think I'd just replace Half-Orcs with actual Orcs as a standard player race.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Arikiel wrote:

I suppose it comes down to what you want the Orcs in your world to be like.

Yeah, different strokes for different folks. :)

Thing I'm really curious about is how often Light Sensitivity gets kept...


Mikaze wrote:
Thing I'm really curious about is how often Light Sensitivity gets kept...

That's so LotR. The "modern" conceptualization of the green skinned, savage, fantasy Orc is based more or Warhammer and Warcraft then anything else these days. If you want Middle Earth that has its own RPG imo.


It sounds like the general consensus is that they are allready balanced against the other races, so I guess I'll just let him roll as is ;)

Thanks for the input guys :)

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