a few quick questions.....


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

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Hey I know Tiny creatures can not flank (no reach) but can you flank a tiny creature? Since they are in the same space as a player would an adjacent player get flanking? not really sure how the rules read could not find anything??

Also poisons...so some poisons have multiple saves. Does the effect happen every missed save? Maybe I missed it but I read and I was not sure.

Hey any help would be great thanks

Liberty's Edge

Since you can 5' step back, you could flank it while being outside of its reach. You couldn't flank it while being in the samne square with it unless you have some special ability (like Gang Up) that provides flanking in a non-standard fashion.

Poison effects usually happen on every failed save, except in the case of the initial save for an onset poison, which doesn't have any effect until; you make the second save which happens at the time of onset.

Also remember that if a poison requires multiple saves to cure, that is consecutive successful saves.


Callarek - I'm not looking at the PFRPG at the moment, but I seem to recall some poisons specifying consecutive saves and others not - I believe only the ones that specify such require consecutive saves. I'll come back with support (or an apology, depending) when I get out my book.


Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:
Hey I know Tiny creatures can not flank (no reach) but can you flank a tiny creature? Since they are in the same space as a player would an adjacent player get flanking? not really sure how the rules read could not find anything??

Core Rulebook, p.194, begins a small section on Big and Little Creatures in Combat.

"Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can't reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent's square to attack in melee. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally."

It's that last sentence that, to me, holds the answer you're looking for. As the DM, I would rule that, if a Tiny (or smaller creature) is in your square, an ally in an adjacent square would definitely provide flanking. However, this is simply my interpretation, and an official rule somewhere may contradict me. (Sorry, I've looked, but I can't find an explicit statement anywhere yet.)

Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:
Also poisons...so some poisons have multiple saves. Does the effect happen every missed save? Maybe I missed it but I read and I was not sure.

Yes, every missed save causes you to take the poison's effect. If you make one save, then next round fail a save, you suffer whatever ill effects the poison provides. (Check the Core Rulebook, p.556, for further clarification.)

Taffer


Per my previous post - I was wrong. Every poison that lists 2 saves for its cure indicates 2 consecutive saves. It is possible to create poisons or other afflictions which don't require consecutive saves, but the guideline in the book and which every poison and disease in the book follows is always that the saves must be made consecutively.

To the OP's question about flanking - According to what I can find in the rules as written, it seems to be impossible to flank a creature sharing your space. They're still assumed to be "everywhere" in the square they inhabit, and so if you're sharing your space with the creature you can draw no flanking line that passes through opposite sides of their square.

---non RAW---
I'd allow it as a GM myself, maybe allowing the creature to choose when it moves which side or corner of the square it is in (and therefore which three squares it could be flanked from - for example, a creature in the north-east corner could be flanked from the north, east, or north-east bordering squares, while a creature on the south side could be flanked from the south, south-east, or south-west squares) if I wanted to get technical.
---back to RAW---

Do note that creatures that take more than one space can still easily flank a creature sharing one of their spaces, as they may choose to draw their flanking lines from their own center or the center of any of the squares they inhabit. A Tiny creature inhabiting one of those squares could be flanked by the larger creature drawing a line from any of the squares around it (and would have a large number of options for doing so - more than most creatures can be flanked from. Typically, for one given flanker, the flanked creature can only be flanked from one specific other square - a Large creature sharing one corner of its area can flank with creatures in three other squares).

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