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Masterwork Tools for all skills


Rules Questions

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Qadira

text of the item discription.

Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect
tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a
related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple
masterwork items do not stack.

the question would be:
In PFSOP, can a PC buy a tool to give a bonus on ANY skill... for example Stealth and Use Magic Device?

This is a general question - NOT intended to be a list of which skills you can get tools or kits for now. Just intended to get the discussion off the other thread an on one of it's own.


nosig wrote:

the question would be:

In PFSOP, can a PC buy a tool to give a bonus on ANY skill... for example Stealth and Use Magic Device?

I have a follow-up question:

Since almost nothing is specified in the item description, is it up to the player or the GM to decide any details? E.g. whether the tool take one or two hands to use (or no hands at all), whether the tool is big or small, what material the tool is made of, etc.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

This is a Rules Question, not a PFS issue. Whatever position the Core Rules supports, PFS will follow.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I spoke with Sean Reynolds and he advised that any skill is allowed to receive the +2 bonus per the Core Rulebook. These will be more clearly defined when the Ultimate Equipment Guide comes out.

Let me add one caveat. If people start trying to game the system and abusing this by carrying around 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 different tools, I will put a PFS rule into place limiting it to one masterwork tool per character. Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.

Silver Crusade

nosig wrote:

text of the item discription.

Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect
tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a
related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple
masterwork items do not stack.

the question would be:
In PFSOP, can a PC buy a tool to give a bonus on ANY skill... for example Stealth and Use Magic Device?

This is a general question - NOT intended to be a list of which skills you can get tools or kits for now. Just intended to get the discussion off the other thread an on one of it's own.

There is a thread my buddy showed me with a post by Josh Frost on these forums somewhere where he says something to the effect if you're creative enough to come up with an item, it would work.

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:

I spoke with Sean Reynolds and he advised that any skill is allowed to receive the +2 bonus per the Core Rulebook. These will be more clearly defined when the Ultimate Equipment Guide comes out.

Let me add one caveat. If people start trying to game the system and abusing this by carrying around 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 different tools, I will put a PFS rule into place limiting it to one masterwork tool per character. Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.

May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:

I spoke with Sean Reynolds and he advised that any skill is allowed to receive the +2 bonus per the Core Rulebook. These will be more clearly defined when the Ultimate Equipment Guide comes out.

Let me add one caveat. If people start trying to game the system and abusing this by carrying around 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 different tools, I will put a PFS rule into place limiting it to one masterwork tool per character. Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.

OK folks, so per the Campaign Coordinator each PC can carry up to 9 Masterwork Tools. It you want to have more than 9 tools, then ask another PC to carry any overages, unless they are at the limit also.

Sorry Mike, I couldn't resist being a d-bag ;)

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.

Taldor

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)?

So I can't answer for Shadowcat, but I can say that I had a rogue/bard/druid as a skill monkey. (Dead now, unfortunately). He prided himself in getting the party safely through the environment of any Pathfinder mission (much like the Shadow Lodge). Seeing as he prioritized magic +skill items over weapons, he would certainly try to pick up as much masterwork tools as possible.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

My bard carries 4 masterwork tools and I feel rather cheesy at that number.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Iammars wrote:


So I can't answer for Shadowcat, but I can say that I had a rogue/bard/druid as a skill monkey. (Dead now, unfortunately). He prided himself in getting the party safely through the environment of any Pathfinder mission (much like the Shadow Lodge). Seeing as he prioritized magic +skill items over weapons, he would certainly try to pick up as much masterwork tools as possible.

Would you carry 26 tools, or masterwork tools for just the skills you are currently trained in, even skills that can't be used untrained?


The question I have is for "reactive" skills like Perception. For example, I thought of having something similar to a snuff box, holding a mild stimulant (whatever the Golarian version of coffee is, for example). Theocrat Issac pointed out (rightly, I think) that it was fine to use before you had a roll for a check, but it wouldn't be in force all day long, just in case you had a reactive perception check. Anyone have any ideas what would work for this? A good example of an "all day" MW tool would be like that mask in one mod that worked for intimidate.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

A set of monocles or an ear horn could work for Perception.

On a side note, Adventurer's Armoury includes details on Golarion coffee:

"This drink is brewed by pouring boiling water through crushed, roasted coffee beans. Coffee is a common part of many cultures in Garund. A very strong brew called Sargavan Red is potent enough to reduce the penalties from the fatigued condition from –2 to –1 for 1 hour."

Coffee is indeed common throughout the Inner Sea Region and beyond. It has been consumed in such diverse locations as the decadent town of Carrion Hill in Ustalav (Carrion Hill, p. 30), the City of Brass on the Plane of Fire (The Impossible Eye, p. 24-25), the town of Kelmarane in Katapesh (The Final Wish, p. 16), the cities of Taldor (Campaign Setting, p. 240), the Jittery Quill pub near the Academae in Korvosa (Guide to Korvosa, p. 18), and the Pathfinder Lodge known as Heidmarch Manor in Magnimar (Seekers of Secrets, p. 37).

Coffee is known to be produced in warmer climes, such as the town of Kibwe in the Mwangi Expanse (Heart of Darkness ... I mean, Heart of the Jungle, p. 36), and Qadira (Qadira, Gateway to the East, p.6)

Paizo Employee Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sunshine Rat! wrote:
The question I have is for "reactive" skills like Perception. For example, I thought of having something similar to a snuff box, holding a mild stimulant (whatever the Golarian version of coffee is, for example). Theocrat Issac pointed out (rightly, I think) that it was fine to use before you had a roll for a check, but it wouldn't be in force all day long, just in case you had a reactive perception check. Anyone have any ideas what would work for this? A good example of an "all day" MW tool would be like that mask in one mod that worked for intimidate.

Yes, you need to actively use any tool. So passive checks wouldn't benefit from the use of a masterwork tool. Using an example for existing equipment, if you use a climber's kit to scale a wall, you need to take it out of your pack and put on the grip gloves and shoe spikes and such. If you get bull rushed down a steep slope and need to make a climb check to keep from sliding down it, that would generally need to be made without the kit's bonus. Likewise, a magnifying glass would help you on active Perception checks, but not passive ones to notice someone about to ambush you.


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Michael Brock wrote:
Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.

That is a large amount of trust, and they will make you take that step...

But seriously (and, NERD ALERT) what if masterwork tools were situational? Ballet Slippers give a +2 to stealth, but -2 to survival, for example.

Also, just remembered back in 3E when one of my players tried to use a spyglass to increase indoor spot checks; good times!

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.

Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.

A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)

Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.

Qadira

from my view as a Judge - this is kind of odd. I'm not going to even think to ask - how many Masterwork Tools does your character have?

As a player, of 6 active characters, I have none.

As a table judge, if you tell me your PC has a +14 on a skill, I normally trust you - I'm just that kind of a person. If the player needs to roll gather information, and rolls a dice looks up and tells me he has a 35... I go with it. If the character is a 1st level Barbarian I'll prob. just roll my eyes and figure I have "one of those players" at my table. I MIGHT ask for a brake down, "to see if you are using gimmicks I could use." This post came out of something like that. Something about making UMD rolls on wands of CLW being no problem - and judges will just handwave them off.

But I have a rogue sniper. He lives or dies on Stealth. Do I invest in a Masterwork Tool (Stealth)? Why would I not?

I play a lot of rogues (3 in 6 active characters), all below level 6, all would love to use every LEGAL gimmick to improve their skills they can.

Qadira

Hitdice wrote:
But seriously (and, NERD ALERT) what if masterwork tools were situational? Ballet Slippers give a +2 to stealth, but -2 to survival, for example.

Sounds like someone needs to take their talents and come up with things for RPG Superstar.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Hitdice wrote:


That is a large amount of trust, and they will make you take that step...

I hope not. I'm trying to give the playerbase more freedom and less restrictions.


Callarek wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.

Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.

A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)

Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.

Now i'm thinking of car mechanics and service station vs. tow truck toolkits; definitely should be a limit on number carried. Might be an encumbrance issue though.

Qadira

Sunshine Rat! wrote:
The question I have is for "reactive" skills like Perception. For example, I thought of having something similar to a snuff box, holding a mild stimulant (whatever the Golarian version of coffee is, for example). Theocrat Issac pointed out (rightly, I think) that it was fine to use before you had a roll for a check, but it wouldn't be in force all day long, just in case you had a reactive perception check. Anyone have any ideas what would work for this? A good example of an "all day" MW tool would be like that mask in one mod that worked for intimidate.

not sure if I'll be ninja'd on this but here goes.

Clearear from the Adventurers Armory - gives a +2 alchemical bonus to Perception for 6 hours (2 hour delay to "ramp up" and a -2 penility to CHA skills, but it also gives a +2 on Knowledge skills).

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Hitdice wrote:
Callarek wrote:

Now i'm thinking of car mechanics and service station vs. tow truck toolkits; definitely should be a limit on number carried. Might be an encumbrance issue though.

I'm thinking of my time as a beat cop. I had two sets of handcuffs, a primary weapon, an asp baton, pepper spray, a flashlight, latex glove pouch, a cell phone holder, and a radio holder. Nothing else would fit on my belt. That is nine items, all very useful for my job, but there is only so much I could carry outside of my police car.

Taldor

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
Iammars wrote:


So I can't answer for Shadowcat, but I can say that I had a rogue/bard/druid as a skill monkey. (Dead now, unfortunately). He prided himself in getting the party safely through the environment of any Pathfinder mission (much like the Shadow Lodge). Seeing as he prioritized magic +skill items over weapons, he would certainly try to pick up as much masterwork tools as possible.

Would you carry 26 tools, or masterwork tools for just the skills you are currently trained in, even skills that can't be used untrained?

He had a rank in everything, so yes. (Well, except Fly, but he didn't have a way to fly yet)

EDIT: Note that rogue/bard/druid makes everything a class skill.

Taldor

I have a "batman" character, he's an alchemist, who's whole schtick is to basically try and have an answer almost any situation. I haven't gone to the length of having tons of tools, but I have piles of other mundane items for this purpose.

With a handy haversack or bag of holding it isn't hard to have piles and piles of gear to draw upon.

Still, I'm not seeing it as abusive. It ends up costing a lot to have all sorts of weird items on hand, and normally you have to pull them out and use them, so it isn't something that can usually be useful in a fight. And as Mark said, these are tools that need to be actively used, rather than being passive bonuses.

Silver Crusade

Hitdice wrote:
Callarek wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.

Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.

A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)

Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.

Now i'm thinking of car mechanics and service station vs. tow truck toolkits; definitely should be a limit on number carried. Might be an encumbrance issue though.

Nothing a handy haversack couldn't fix.

Qadira

ok, this is a cut and paste from the thread that kicked this thread off... my words but this is over two hours old....

"Ok... I got it.
(sarcasm alert)
Nosigs' Tool Box.
Cost 1750 gp, wieght is 36 lbs (35 lbs of tools and 1 lb of box).
This box contains a masterwork tool for 35 different skills, each of which provides a +2 circumstance bonus for a different skill (35 total skills)"

I think the figures are right... realize that this was in sarcasm, 'cause I think there should be some type of limiting factor on this.

Silver Crusade

Michael Brock wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.

What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)

Qadira

Mok wrote:

I have a "batman" character, he's an alchemist, who's whole schtick is to basically try and have an answer almost any situation. I haven't gone to the length of having tons of tools, but I have piles of other mundane items for this purpose.

With a handy haversack or bag of holding it isn't hard to have piles and piles of gear to draw upon.

Still, I'm not seeing it as abusive. It ends up costing a lot to have all sorts of weird items on hand, and normally you have to pull them out and use them, so it isn't something that can usually be useful in a fight. And as Mark said, these are tools that need to be actively used, rather than being passive bonuses.

Example given on different thread included Masterwork tool-Stealth "sneakers" so that you always have the +2 on Stealth.

Guess some players feel they can have their tool out all the time - wow, that just needed to be said ;)

Taldor

Dan Luckett wrote:
Nothing a handy haversack couldn't fix.

Yeah, this week I assembled a Handy Haversack Pack sheet that one can buy a handy haversack with 100 pounds of gear so that you don't have to fuss with all the essential stuff and tediously have to write it down on your character sheet.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

I admit there are some character themes where a good variety of tools works properly. My bard carries 5-6 different masterwork instruments, so he has one of each type. However, I would very much like to see that people use common sense with this.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Alexander_Damocles wrote:


What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)

That is 10 and fits with the theme of the character. Does the playerbase really want me to place a hardcap or can people just use common sense and make sure it fits their character. For example, my own bard may have use for 6-8 masterwork tools eventually. My 11th level fighter has no need for any. All I am asking is people be sensible about it.

Qadira

So is it then reasonable for my character to buy a masterwork tool for every skill he has skill points in? (every skill he is trained in).

Goodness - why would he NOT?

"yeah, I'm not very good at bluff, but I got this coppers badge and if I pin it on my shirt, maybe the marks will think I'm a little more trustworthy." Bluff is a +2 (-2Stat+1rank+3class skill), but with the Masterwork Tool (Bluff) he's twice as likely to pull off the bluff.

Taldor

nosig wrote:

Example given on different thread included Masterwork tool-Stealth "sneakers" so that you always have the +2 on Stealth.

Guess some players feel they can have their tool out all the time - wow, that just needed to be said ;)

Yeah, I can see how this is the area where abuse is possible. People could stretch things so that you could argue, however tenuously, that there is a way for there to be a passive way of having a bonus for a skill.

I think the easiest way to deal with this is just say that the tool is taking up an appropriate magic item slot.

Silver Crusade

Michael Brock wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:


What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)

That is 10 and fits with the theme of the character. Does the playerbase really want me to place a hardcap or can people just use common sense and make sure it fits their character. For example, my own bard may have use for 6-8 masterwork tools eventually. My 11th level fighter has no need for any. All I am asking is people be sensible about it.

To be honest Mike, even with my local group knowing of this from years ago, no one has abused it yet, and I have some serious min-maxers. So, I doubt it's really necessary.

Taldor

Michael Brock wrote:
Does the playerbase really want me to place a hardcap or can people just use common sense and make sure it fits their character.

I would just ask not be over reactive. If there are thousands and thousands of players, there is bound to be a handful that are going to push boundaries in any number of ways, but it doesn't necessarily mean something is an epidemic problem.

Andoran

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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
However, I would very much like to see that people use common sense with this.

Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Mok wrote:


I would just ask not be over reactive. If there are thousands and thousands of players, there is bound to be a handful that are going to push boundaries in any number of ways, but it doesn't necessarily mean something is an epidemic problem.

Overreactive would be me coming here and stating limit 10, end of discussion, instead of leaving it up to the common sense of the playerbase to make sure the amount of masterwork tools fits the theme of the character. As I said above, I'm trying to give the playerbase more freedom and less restrictions. Just don't make me regret it.

Qadira

Dan Luckett wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:


What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)

That is 10 and fits with the theme of the character. Does the playerbase really want me to place a hardcap or can people just use common sense and make sure it fits their character. For example, my own bard may have use for 6-8 masterwork tools eventually. My 11th level fighter has no need for any. All I am asking is people be sensible about it.
To be honest Mike, even with my local group knowing of this from years ago, no one has abused it yet, and I have some serious min-maxers. So, I doubt it's really necessary.

what's abuse and how would I be able to detect it as a table judge?

How do I avoid it as a player? in myself?
I have a Rogue PC. At 1st level he has 10 skill ranks. Why would he not buy 10 masterwork tools?
Can he buy a Masterwork Tool for Disable device? (cost 50gp. and 1 lb. weight)?

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Dragnmoon wrote:

Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)

Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)

Qadira

more questions copied from the thread on CLW wands that started this thread.

in talking about existing skill kits, for example the Climbers kit it was suggested that a PC should NOT be able to buy a Masterwork tool for a skill there was a Kit for... but that raised some questions in my mind. These are a few of those questions:

Some of the existing Kits give a +2 bonus in limited circumstance - Perfume for example only works on persons that could be sexually attracted to the user - so can I get a mwk tool that would give me a +2 in all other circumstances? ones not covered by an existing kit?

If I do not have the source that gives me access to the Kit for a skill, can I get a mwk tool to cover the skill? For example, the Perfume above is available in the Armory - so if I don't own it can I buy a Tool to give me a +2 to Diplomacy?

If a Kit appears in a new published source, do my older Tools for those skills still work? if not, can my PC get his gold back on them?

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
nosig wrote:


Can he buy a Masterwork Tool for Disable device? (cost 50gp. and 1 lb. weight)?

That's called Masterwork Thieves' Tools. I'd be careful when the item in question has already been given its own entry. Masterwork Tools for Heal, Disguise, Climb, etc have their own entries in the Core Rules. My opinion; abuse would be using a MW tool (which is cheaper) in lieu of that item. I'm not suggesting nosig was attempting to do this.

Silver Crusade

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Michael Brock wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:

Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)

Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)

Would a decent idea be you can't use masterwork tools in PFS unless you have at least 1 rank in the skill? That allows skill monkey types to pretend to be batman, while preventing a player from cheesing it out for all skills.

Qadira

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Alexander_Damocles wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:

Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)

Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)
Would a decent idea be you can't use masterwork tools in PFS unless you have at least 1 rank in the skill? That allows skill monkey types to pretend to be batman, while preventing a player from cheesing it out for all skills.

I'd rather see players exercise some self-control rather than add another entry to the FAQ or in the Guide to PFS Organized Play.

Qadira

In old 3.5 in my home game I had a player who was always interested in things that gave his character a bonus - which he would then stick on his Player sheet and they would be there forever for all things. the perfict example is the Climbers Kit. He would buy one, add the bonus to Climb and it would be there forever, for all climb rolls - just auto added to his character. As the DM, when the party sprang an trap and slid down a slide, he would look down at his Climb and there's only one number - which includes the +2 bonus. Often he would do this for temporary bonuses - bless would drive me crazy. I once found that he had 3 bless bonuses on his to hits active at the same time, one from the game a week before.

Strangely enough, he never forgot to remove the penelities - in fact, often they had trouble staying on from round to round. ("did you count the minus for the Bane spell" "wait, did I miss the save on that?" "yes, yes you did" "oh, then I guess I only got an 18")

I do not check where players are getting the number they tell me when I'm the judge. I don't what to have to. But I know some players who will have +2 added to climb for thier climbers kit and another +2 for the Masterwork tool (Climb).

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Doug Miles wrote:


I'd rather see players exercise some self-control rather than add another entry to the FAQ or in the Guide to PFS Organized Play.

This +1.

Qadira

is "the perfect tool for the job" for a skill the same each time I try the skill?

for example - in listening in on a conversation in the next room I could see using a stethascope (bad spelling) to get a +2. Stick it in my ears, put the little cold disk up to the wall and presto! +2 to perception. In opening a combination safe the same tool works... but for a +2 on disable device to open locks. But - would this item work if I was trying to detect an ambush (perception)? or to pick a keyed lock (disble device - open lock)?

maybe that's the way to do this -
"It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any)." (from the Core Rule bood discription of Masterwork Tool).
so the bonus is circumstance so it depends on circumstances! you get the bonus... IF YOU ASK THE DM IF THE CIRCUMSTANCES APPLY, and he says they do.

Andoran

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:

Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)

Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)

I like your original statement more!!! ..

Taldor

It's not RAW but it's fairly common sense that a tool must be equipped to be used. That will cut down alot on the in-combat shenanigans an extra +2 to a skill check might cause.

If your table's dazzling display/shatter defenses fighter is willing to go without a 2h weapon or a shield to use his Intimidate mwk Tool for a +2 circ. bonus, is it really breaking the game?

Andoran

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Michael Brock wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:


May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.

May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.

A good set of shoes so I don't trip and fall at an inopportune moment, a set of reference manuals because not knowing what that mark on the wall means could cost me my life, a lucky charm because it makes using the wand a little easier, etc.

If I was going into an unpredictable, life threatening situation, and I were strong enough and I thought it might help, I'd take the whole encyclopedia britannica and the kitchen sink with me. Wouldn't you?

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Deusvult, there are items on some Chronicles that take up item slots (I'm thinking of a mask available from a Season 1 chronicle sheet) that function as masterwork items for skills like Intimidate. I can see paying 50 gold to mount decorative skulls all around the edge of my shield, too.

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