Goblin Squad Member
|
There is no exp, or levels. There are no classes.
You have some good ideas and I sense we share a lot of ideas on MMORPGs given your suggestions, but take a look at the F.A.Q first.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Travel should be slow to start but there should be means to speed up: SoW, mounts, and ultimately classes with teleport abilities. Various skills should increase speed (riding skill, swimming skill, flying skill if there are flying moutns).
As a general rule you want to set a low baseline for everyhing (starting skills, travel speed, etc.) and move up slowly from there. Having someone give you a free SOW (or equivalent) when you're a level 2 monk should matter.
True though in the long run, instant travel still needs to have limits as well. I think it would be interesting if each individual kingdom/city had their own economies. IE town A has a low price of potions, but a high price of weapons, town B has the opposite, and thus merchants can make a living traveling between cities taking advantage of this fact. Once you throw in instant travel, you get an instantaneous universal price globally, because people will be able to instantly jump to the city that has it cheapest, and thus things will only be crafted in cities that specializes in them, there will be no import/export business etc... Personally I'm in favor of making teleport either expensive or impractical if even added.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
True though in the long run, instant travel still needs to have limits as well.
Both Eve Online & WoW handled travel quite well. Taxi services such as warp gates(?) and grpyhons offered players a fast means of travel, but one which also entailed some travel time.
Allowing players to travel where ever they please at a quicker, yet still time consuming place (whilst afk) is the best option. Prices would not converge across local markets as time constraints still exist, yet players would be free to travel with relative ease as opposed to on foot/horseback.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
True though in the long run, instant travel still needs to have limits as well.Both Eve Online & WoW handled travel quite well. Taxi services such as warp gates(?) and grpyhons offered players a fast means of travel, but one which also entailed some travel time.
Allowing players to travel where ever they please at a quicker, yet still time consuming place (whilst afk) is the best option. Prices would not converge across local markets as time constraints still exist, yet players would be free to travel with relative ease as opposed to on foot/horseback.
Yeah I'd have nothing against the lesser equivalents along the lines of the taxi services, that still consume a few minutes (IE turning a 45 minute trip into a 5-10 minute trip. Allowing a handful of classes to do it, is as bad as allowing all of them to do it though. 1 wizard would balance out the international market in a matter of minutes, unless you had a large cooldown on the ability, say once every 30 minutes.
Mages or whatever they were in WoW that had the ability would have caused that issue, if the market weren't by definition already centralized (IE international auction house).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Another thing UO did quite well, was offer instant travel to Mages using the rune system (mark rune at location X and recall there anytime) was the inability to shift heavy resources through the recall or gate travel spells.
Instant travel can exist with barriers to protect trade or raw or bulk resources at least.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Per your post above. Pathfinder RPG has classes/levels/xp. What am I missing? What FAQ are you referring to?
I linked the F.A.Q in my original post (click F.A.Q).
They have told us that the game will be dropping the OGL as it is not transferable to an MMORPG and will instead go with a skill system. Skill systems work in that you raise a single skill through skill points which you acquire through completing a certain relevant task.
Mining will increase your skill points in mining etc.
Ultima Online and Eve Online are both examples of functional skill systems, yet it's hard to tell you which to look at as we don't know how this skill system will be implemented. The examples in UO and Eve differ greatly from one another.
|
The FULL version of Warhammer Online was effectively a beta. I will never pay money again for that. When the game hits the non-beta stage what they have promised better be actually in the game else I won't even be installing it for a look. Adding features latter is fine, but actually not having features promised at full game release is either bad planning or laziness - neither of those reasons are my problem. This time, unlike with Warhammer Online which I pre-ordered, I'm going to wait and see what people say after a month.
S.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In our case this statement is inaccurate.
*Corrects himself*
Skill systems work in that you raise skills similar to that in the MMORPG Eve Online. Considering you meet the pre-requisites for said skill, you may choose to begin learning the skill as if telling your character to read a book. After a period of time has elapsed you will have learnt the skill; think Neo learning Kung-Fu in the Matrix.
As you progress higher and higher in this skill, the time required to progress increases dramatically. The time required to reach the first level of a skill is comparatively fast.
Am I getting closer? ^^
♠ Join the Pathfinder Online community in IRC | Server: irc.stratics.com (6667) Channel: #pfo | We'll see you there! ♠
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In our case this statement is inaccurate.*Corrects himself*
Skill systems work in that you raise skills similar to that in the MMORPG Eve Online. Considering you meet the pre-requisites for said skill, you may choose to begin learning the skill as if telling your character to read a book. After a period of time has elapsed you will have learnt the skill; think Neo learning Kung-Fu in the Matrix.
As you progress higher and higher in this skill, the time required to progress increases dramatically. The time required to reach the first level of a skill is comparatively fast.
Am I getting closer? ^^
♠ Join the Pathfinder Online community in IRC | Server: irc.stratics.com (6667) Channel: #pfo | We'll see you there! ♠
Hey that's a good idea, maybe we can get more information on the direction of the game via trial and error. Everyone start taking wild stabs in the dark to guess the nature of different systems, the ones that aren't corrected must be true!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I like the idea of separate markets, but with players Skills that allow you to keep your finger on the pulse of markets in other areas, for those players who choose to focus their development on the economy.
Personally what I think could be one of the coolest ways to do this, Player created factions (or give it a different name if you don't like the term faction for it).
Note a faction is not officially an organization. Membership to one should be confidential, this should be separate from kingdoms etc... in that they aren't explicitly on a side of any sort. Invitations should be controlled by the leaders, and membership should be able to span to multiple alliences/guilds/kingdoms etc... regardless of their standings with each-other. A faction should do nothing mechanically other then encourage it's members to share information with each-other about a cetain category. IE a merchants faction, would allow merchants to share with each-other the current prices in their town, allowing the import/export guys to plan out the most profitable routes.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Why would anyone pay for a beta?
I can think of a lot of reasons, not least of which is being able to have an impact on the final game. I simply can't express how excited I am about PFO. I've never actually played the TRPG version of it, simply because I've never been lucky enough to have the right social network for it. But I've been a fan of Fantasy RPGs since I was 10 years old (that was 1980, if you're curious) and have been desperately waiting for a true sand-box Fantasy MMO that was willing to try to innovate.
It's wonderful just having the chance to impact the design of the game by posting on these forums, and I sincerely hope that all the regular posters quickly get to recognize my name. And yes, I'm shamelessly trying to better my chances at being invited into that first group of 4,500.
But I also want to do everything I can to make sure PFO is the place I want to spend 20 years playing a character.
So, if Mr. Dancey is reading this, and is wondering if he can get people to actually pay to beta test PFO, please understand the answer is a resounding "YES!" and that's even if the sub is $15/mo, but I'd really like to encourage an eventual low margin/high volume strategy with subs more in the $60-80/year range.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
"Beta testing" an MMO is different from beta testing any other game.
It amounts to the developers saying "We've done everything possible without a large group of actual people testing in real-world conditions, so we are going to release it. Expect major changes, up to and including server wipes and full restarts."
My line: I will pay $45 for three months of access to whatever is released as a Pathfinder MMO, the first time it is offered to me. Once I form a recommendation, it will probably directly swing four people, plus myself, who might subscribe or might join on a F2P model, if available. Their recommendations will probably swing a total of six more. I will spend my money based on the strength of the license and a combination of faith, hope and charity, regardless of the listed feature list.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I beta tested for an MMO and we were asked to try different stuff, to try to test the game. We were expected to report bugs and suggestions. It was fun exploring stuff, but it was also work...writing up the things I found and concerns I had. Devs cannot be expected to replicate errors unless you describe in detail how, where, and what occurred...this can take longer than the actual playing. But, that was the only game I have ever beta tested for, so I cannot say I am too educated or experienced about the process. I would gladly volunteer my time for a project I am excited for (like PFO), but for a game I was not...it would not be worth my time. As for paying for it...I suppose I will wait for release if that is necessary.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I beta tested for an MMO and we were asked to try different stuff, to try to test the game. We were expected to report bugs and suggestions. It was fun exploring stuff, but it was also work...writing up the things I found and concerns I had. Devs cannot be expected to replicate errors unless you describe in detail how, where, and what occurred...this can take longer than the actual playing. But, that was the only game I have ever beta tested for, so I cannot say I am too educated or experienced about the process. I would gladly volunteer my time for a project I am excited for (like PFO), but for a game I was not...it would not be worth my time. As for paying for it...I suppose I will wait for release if that is necessary.
By most modern standards the work phase you are talking about is usually considered alpha for MMOs, closed beta is generally when they release it to many uneducated people that they don't expect more detailed reports than "the *** enemies sometimes teleport randomly", and even that they don't really require. Most of the major stuff is expected to have been found by the alpha tests before, closed/open beta is primaraly focused on stress testing and making judgments of how things work when scaled to a few thousand players.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I beta tested for an MMO and we were asked to try different stuff, to try to test the game. We were expected to report bugs and suggestions. It was fun exploring stuff, but it was also work...writing up the things I found and concerns I had. Devs cannot be expected to replicate errors unless you describe in detail how, where, and what occurred...this can take longer than the actual playing. But, that was the only game I have ever beta tested for, so I cannot say I am too educated or experienced about the process. I would gladly volunteer my time for a project I am excited for (like PFO), but for a game I was not...it would not be worth my time. As for paying for it...I suppose I will wait for release if that is necessary.By most modern standards the work phase you are talking about is usually considered alpha for MMOs, closed beta is generally when they release it to many uneducated people that they don't expect more detailed reports than "the *** enemies sometimes teleport randomly", and even that they don't really require. Most of the major stuff is expected to have been found by the alpha tests before, closed/open beta is primaraly focused on stress testing and making judgments of how things work when scaled to a few thousand players.
Oh, maybe it was an earlier stage in development/testing...thanks for the correction and explanation. I will be quiet and hopefully stop showing my ignorance now.
|
stuff
Okay, I'll try to address your points 1 at a time:
1) Thumbs up for Friendly and Enemy targeting. The only reason I could see this NOT happening in the game is the ability to attack any person at any time.
2) I think the only MMO I've ever played with Primarily instanced content was Guild Wars, and I really enjoy it. Still, Open World generally beats Instanced.
3) Here's where I'm gonna start disagreeing. You're advocating, essentially, the Holy Trinity system. The Trinity system doesn't create variety, it forces people into what are, essentially, prefabricated groups. Now, I'm all for classes being different, but an Abjuration focused wizard should be able to take damage like a shield/heavy armor fighter, which should be able to take damage like an evasion focused rogue. I should be able to be good at what I choose to be good at, and dungeons and instances should reward good teamwork, not team composition, which, in the case of the Trinity system, is ALWAYS identical, and is usually the sole prerequisite for going into a dungeon.
4) Regarding the Long XP curve, well, you've already seen the FAQ, so you know they won't have levels in Pathfinder Online. The dev's have said they'd like to see an endgame skilled character after about 2 years of play, and frankly, I think it's ridiculous.
Sure, you want to have people enjoy the game, but they're removing something from the game that is a fundamental aspect of MMO's: It removes the ability for people to level at their own pace. Everyone will, essentially, be leveling at the same rate, since skills will take the same amount of time across the board. If I log on, say, an hour a day, and my buddy logs on 5 hours, we shouldn't be at the same skill level. Sure, there are things like completing more quests, having more money, etc., but completely removing the direct benefit of increased play time seems like a bad, bad idea.
5) I couldn't care less about the prescence of magic items. If it's a video game, rest assured, lots of people are going to have them. If people DIDN'T have access to them, the game would turn into a PK gang-bang as players with unique magical items/weapons are murdered for the item, then the murderer is killed, etc. ad infinitum.
Rather, players should be rewarded for finding ways to use different magical items effectively, and not be shoe-horned into using items of a specific type. So, I can choose to create a magical sword, and the effect I choose has a usefulness based on how well I play my character.
6) Non-adventureing leveling: I don't care. I'm not a crafter, never will be. Takes too much time, too much effort, and produces too little rewards. If a game makes crafting simple enough or less time consuming, I might give it a shot. /shrug
7) Factions: I like the idea of soft-factions, but faction grinding should be a no-no. All building faction reputation does is encourage tedium, unless it's an organic part of the game (for example, my blacksmith character can donate his weapons to a specific faction, which is fine because that's what he'd be doing anyways).
8) Death Penalties: I could not disagree with you more. When you die, you've already been penalized. Your defeat signifies that you were not skilled enough/ well-geared enough to accomplish your task, and that time was essentially wasted because you did not reap any (or simply very diminished) rewards from your activity. Adding in experience or skill debt is just icing on the fail cake.
9) Travel. I agree, and disagree, with your ideas. Players should start off at a moderate travel speed, not ungainly slow, but just fast enough to make pedestrian travel acceptable. There should be means by which players can increase speed, but these increases should be relatively small, say, within +100% of traditional player movement speed (+75% really should be adequate). I'm also going to say that Flying should be heavily restricted, and flying mounts disallowed entirely. Why?
First off, how do you justify attacking flying characters? Will there be mounted combat? Do attacked characters fall to their deaths? If they do, how does that stack up with death penalties or looting? Flying would be a death sentence!
Secondly, allowing personal flight greatly diminishes the vastness of a world. Players can fly anywhere, and all of a sudden the dangers in the wilds of the River Kingdoms mean nothing as you soar overhead. You'd be taking a large world and minimizing it, and globalization is actually not very fun in an MMO.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
From January 6th, 2012:
Why would anyone pay for a beta?I can think of a lot of reasons, not least of which is being able to have an impact on the final game. I simply can't express how excited I am about PFO. I've never actually played the TRPG version of it, simply because I've never been lucky enough to have the right social network for it. But I've been a fan of Fantasy RPGs since I was 10 years old (that was 1980, if you're curious) and have been desperately waiting for a true sand-box Fantasy MMO that was willing to try to innovate.
It's wonderful just having the chance to impact the design of the game by posting on these forums, and I sincerely hope that all the regular posters quickly get to recognize my name. And yes, I'm shamelessly trying to better my chances at being invited into that first group of 4,500.
But I also want to do everything I can to make sure PFO is the place I want to spend 20 years playing a character.
So, if Mr. Dancey is reading this, and is wondering if he can get people to actually pay to beta test PFO, please understand the answer is a resounding "YES!" and that's even if the sub is $15/mo, but I'd really like to encourage an eventual low margin/high volume strategy with subs more in the $60-80/year range.
It's been a hell of a ride so far, Ryan. I'm looking forward to the next lap!
[Edit] And yeah, sorry for the necro... kinda...
