I've been thinking about making a touch based caster. Someone who can get into combat and deliver touch based spells. I love the flair but can't seem to get the mechanics of it down. Has anyone built anything like this. I was hoping to be able to casts at least 4th level spells.
Magus. ;-)
I've been thinking about making a touch based caster. Someone who can get into combat and deliver touch based spells. I love the flair but can't seem to get the mechanics of it down. Has anyone built anything like this. I was hoping to be able to casts at least 4th level spells.
Isn't that basically what the Magus does? Or were there touch spells you wanted that were not on the Magus list?
Problem: Casters usually have very bad AC. And to touch attack people you have to get close. Being in full-attack range of the guy with the big sword can really hurt really bad really fast.
Something you should consider when you make this build.
Getting into combat tends to be a bad idea for an arcane caster. I used Spectral Hand to deliver touch spells remotely.
Clerics can wear armor without incurring spell failure, so you might want to go that route. Casting before the touch still provokes if you're within reach, so Combat Casting is a must, of course. You can be an evil cleric and spontaneously cast inflicts, plus take the channel feat that heals you as you damage others. Channeling does not provoke. You can also exclude friendlies in range if you care at all about not hurting party members. But if you're evil, you may not care.
Weapon Finesse: Touch (Use Dex as your ability score to deliver the melee touch)
Ranged Touch Attack
Focus on Dex as a good stat drop strength, and make sure that you have plenty of spells.
As Treppa also said, spectral hand is good for this as well.
Arcane archer can do ranged touch spells. Plus arrow damage.
I'd start with Cleric or Oracle as the class. That way you have good armor and BAB, and lots of spells.
Cleric is actually really good at touch spells. They can sponantenously cast cure or harm spells and they can memorize some of the other enabling them to touch attack living or undead with ease. They ahve a decent BAB progression and they wear armor. All that adds up to a fairly effective melee touch attacker.
Cleric is actually really good at touch spells. They can sponantenously cast cure or harm spells and they can memorize some of the other enabling them to touch attack living or undead with ease. They ahve a decent BAB progression and they wear armor. All that adds up to a fairly effective melee touch attacker.
And jokes in poor taste involving "bad touch" clerics.
Cleric is actually really good at touch spells. They can sponantenously cast cure or harm spells and they can memorize some of the other enabling them to touch attack living or undead with ease. They ahve a decent BAB progression and they wear armor. All that adds up to a fairly effective melee touch attacker.And jokes in poor taste involving "bad touch" clerics.
Naturally. ;-)
Also, if you really like the arcane caster idea, try going Eldritch Knight. You would need a 1 lvl dip into fighter or another class with proficiency in all martial weapons, but could qualify with a wizard at lvl 6 or a Sorc at lvl 7. It has a good BAB and d10 HD, both of which will come in useful.
As for gear, you will either be wanting bracers of armor (no ASF as far as I know) or some mithral armor (-10% ASF) with the Twilight property (from Magic Item Compendium, another -10% ASF), and possibly the Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery feats (-10% or -20% ASF respectively, but uses a swift action).
Also look into the Abberant bloodline for the long limbs power and into spells such as Spectral Hand (sor/wiz 2) and Project Image (bard 6, sor/wiz 7) which will allow you to use your melee touch attacks at range, keeping you out of harm's reach (hopefully).
Feats such as weapon focus (ranged/melee touch), imp. crit (ranged/melee touch), weapon finesse (dropping str for attacks), and Arcane Strike (extra dmg, but another swift action feat) might also be useful in this build.
Isn't that basically what the Magus does? Or were there touch spells you wanted that were not on the Magus list?I've been thinking about making a touch based caster. Someone who can get into combat and deliver touch based spells. I love the flair but can't seem to get the mechanics of it down. Has anyone built anything like this. I was hoping to be able to casts at least 4th level spells.
Sorry I should have been more specific. We are only using APG and core rules. No ultimate magic or ultimate combat in this game. :(
Cleric, Oracle or Inquisitor then? There are plenty of unpleasant touch spells on the divine side of things and the holy types dont normally have the same HP or AC problems wizzies and sorcs do.
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I've been thinking about making a touch based caster. Someone who can get into combat and deliver touch based spells. I love the flair but can't seem to get the mechanics of it down. Has anyone built anything like this. I was hoping to be able to casts at least 4th level spells.
Spectral Hand would be invaluable. Deliver touch spells from OUTSIDE combat :)
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Getting into combat tends to be a bad idea for an arcane caster. I used Spectral Hand to deliver touch spells remotely.
Clerics can wear armor without incurring spell failure, so you might want to go that route. Casting before the touch still provokes if you're within reach, so Combat Casting is a must, of course. You can be an evil cleric and spontaneously cast inflicts, plus take the channel feat that heals you as you damage others. Channeling does not provoke. You can also exclude friendlies in range if you care at all about not hurting party members. But if you're evil, you may not care.
You can be a neutral cleric and channel negitive energy.
How come everyone thinks you have to be evil? I have a LN cleric of Zon-Kuthon that is legal for PFS. I know this is not the PFS board, just wanted to throw it out there.
Since I have not played in many years, this thread has given me so ideas as to some improvments.
Grave walker witch casts touch spells at range, aberrant sorcerer does it quicker(grave walker touch is full round)
Improved eldritch heritage feat gives you the stretchy touch if you don't like sorcerer touchers. Note it is preq heavy. And wouldn't hit till 11th
I've been thinking about making a touch based caster. Someone who can get into combat and deliver touch based spells. I love the flair but can't seem to get the mechanics of it down. Has anyone built anything like this. I was hoping to be able to casts at least 4th level spells.
Two combinations come to mind... rogue/magus and better yet... monk/magus
those would do very well as arcane and close ranged fighters.
Some great ideas. I think I might go Lawful Neutral cleric. will have to look into the various domains.
Cleric can be a good choice given the average (as opposed to poor) BAB and the number of Touch spells on their list. You no longer need to worry about ASF with this class either, which is a major boon, and can still take the Eldritch Heritage feats to get Long Limbs, if you are fond of the idea.
It is important to note that you will not naturally have access to the Spectral Hand or Project Image spells with this class, though, which will put you in the middle of the fight more often, so get good armor and try to have at least a couple good buffs available at all times.
If you feel it's not too much of a stretch, also consider taking ranks in Use Magic Device (even though it's not a class skill for that class) and get a couple Eternal Wands (Magic Item Compendium p159, 4.4k) of Spectral Hand so you still have some access to this spell. Trust me, if you have the skill points to spare you will thank me later.
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I'm playing a touch caster right now that just became so uber I feel sorry for the GM. She is a sorceress with the fey bloodline (decended from quicklings). Took dodge, one of the bloodline feats is mobility, and at ninth I just qaulified for spring attack! 5he bloodline also gave me a laughing touch ability as well as fleeting glance(improved invisibility). Took a high dex, weapon finesse and fleet feats, and maxed out acrobatics with boots of elvenkind. Fight begins I cast expiditous retreat, a touch spell good for multiple touches (like calcific touch) and then spring attack at high speed while the warrior keeps the baddy busy. Use greater invisibility as needed. Easy touch AC's, good base chance to hit it, no saves or retaliation from the monsters. Tell your GM I said sorry.
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Try playing a Witch with the Prehensile Hair Hex and the Lunge feat. Cast all your Touch based spells at 20 foot range with a great spell list for bad touching. Add to it it's a natural weapon attack so you can actually do a melee attack (with your int bonus instead of strength) while you deliver the touch spells.
It also gives you a decent option for surviving in melee (anyone who comes at you or moves more than 5' inside of your 15' reach provokes an AoO which you use to trip them {your trip doesn't provoke} AND you can deliver that touch spell at the same time.
Mix it with a bit of GraveWalker Archetype and anyone who comes within 30-ish feet of you is in a world of pain.
I am playing a touch-based caster right now, he is a Wizard, with a single level of kensai Magus (+INT to AC as long as he is holding his weapon) so he has decent AC and weapon finesse gives him a decent bonus, really painful BAB though... but that matters less further on as touch ac's tend to go down at higher levels somewhat.
I'm playing a touch caster right now that just became so uber I feel sorry for the GM. She is a sorceress with the fey bloodline (decended from quicklings). Took dodge, one of the bloodline feats is mobility, and at ninth I just qaulified for spring attack! 5he bloodline also gave me a laughing touch ability as well as fleeting glance(improved invisibility). Took a high dex, weapon finesse and fleet feats, and maxed out acrobatics with boots of elvenkind. Fight begins I cast expiditous retreat, a touch spell good for multiple touches (like calcific touch) and then spring attack at high speed while the warrior keeps the baddy busy. Use greater invisibility as needed. Easy touch AC's, good base chance to hit it, no saves or retaliation from the monsters. Tell your GM I said sorry.
Could you give me an idea what your build looks like?
I've been thinking about making a touch based caster. Someone who can get into combat and deliver touch based spells. I love the flair but can't seem to get the mechanics of it down. Has anyone built anything like this. I was hoping to be able to casts at least 4th level spells.
Aww, I thought this was going to be a thread about perverted clerics...
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I'm playing a touch caster right now that just became so uber I feel sorry for the GM. She is a sorceress with the fey bloodline (decended from quicklings). Took dodge, one of the bloodline feats is mobility, and at ninth I just qaulified for spring attack! 5he bloodline also gave me a laughing touch ability as well as fleeting glance(improved invisibility). Took a high dex, weapon finesse and fleet feats, and maxed out acrobatics with boots of elvenkind. Fight begins I cast expiditous retreat, a touch spell good for multiple touches (like calcific touch) and then spring attack at high speed while the warrior keeps the baddy busy. Use greater invisibility as needed. Easy touch AC's, good base chance to hit it, no saves or retaliation from the monsters. Tell your GM I said sorry.Could you give me an idea what your build looks like?
Human sorcerer lv. 9 fey bloodline
Feats: (Human bonus)Fleet, Lv1 Improved Initiative, Lv 3 weapon finesse, Lv 5 dodge, (Lv 7 bloodline bonus feat) Mobility, Lv. 7 intesified spell(not needed for the build but can boost low level touch spells,)Lv. 9 spring attack. I plan on taking quicken spell when I hit 11th
I did take some good old stand by spells like lighnting bolt and magic missile for when close quarters isn't an option. I kind of have a lightning/speed them for the character. I also plan on getting some spells like fire shield to dicourage grappling me. The fey bloodline also grant alot of bonus spells that like deep slumber to take of the small potatoes monsters.
Also take any dex, con or cha boosting items you can get. AC items aren't that useful when your spring attacking.
One pleasant side effect I've noticed is that if you use calcific touch or any touch speel that causes ability damage it makes the monsters AC and CMD plummet making it food for your party warriors. They love me for this. Hope this is useful.
I did a dwarf sorcerer (with the empyreal bloodline) that I built as a battle type sorcerer. I didn't stack my prime casting stat super high so I focused mainly on touch and buff spells to avoid saving throws. I also enjoyed wading in to give the fighters flanks and other things, especially against giants.
I went with these feats for the core of my "battle feats":
1 Light Armor Prof
3 Arcane Armor Training
5 Defensive Combat Training
7 Dodge
9 Mobility
On a 20 point build I put 14 in str, dex, con, and wis (con and wis bumped to 16 with racials). With defensive combat training my cmd was formidable, especially with stability. I took extra hit points for my racial and with the +4 con belt I got as a hand-me-down from the fighter I had some mad HP.
At low levels I cast shield pretty much every fight. Eventually you'll want an enchanted small mithril shield. It ended up being pretty effective and got real ugly against giants with defensive training. . Magic Circle against evil and haste go up every fight and then I made liberal use of other buff and control spells to make the martial characters super awesome. Telekinetic charge became sort of a signature spell for me while I used the ranger / rogue in the party as a missile and provided a flank for him.
You may want to run it past your other party members as you will be competing against other characters for items you would normally not be interested in like trying to take the mithrial chain shirt from the rogue and the amulet of natural armor from the fighter.
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Sardonic beat me to it, but spring attack is an excellent feat for a touch spell heavy caster. A guy in a group I played in used it to great effect with his wizard/fighter to eldritch knight(this was pre-magus), and with a couple front-liners screening, he would move in, deliver, and be back behind the other melee types ready to prep his next touch spell. A maximized shocking grasp swung many a fight for us. Be careful about AOOs though; just because the target can't get you doesn't mean his buddies can't!