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Pathfinder and Neverwinter Nights


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Back in 2002 Bioware launched a game that is in my opinion the greatest computer game of the 21st century, Neverwinter Nights (NWN). NWN’s single player campaign was truthfully nothing special, it was lengthy and enjoyable enough but nothing about it truly broke any gaming paradigms. What made NWN stand out were three things; the Aurora engine that Bioware used to build the game was launched with it, it came with a DM client for online use, and an active and devoted community that still to this day releases custom content.

Neverwinter Nights allows groups of people to create from scratch their own custom world with it’s own areas, NPCs, spells, monsters, etc. and then host the completed world on a server for players to long in and play a persistent character. The DM client then allows someone to log into the server and wield control over things ranging from spawning and possessing NPCs to creating items, effects, etc. The tools at a DMs finger tips allows them to run highly complex and immersive events ranging from single shot “save the villager from enraged kobolds” to lengthy year long campaigns.

For the last nearly 8 years I’ve been a part of this fantastic community and in that time have worn the shoes of builder, DM, administrator, and player. This brings me to the purpose behind this post, a little over a year ago I discovered Pathfinder and with that one of my favorite fantasy campaign settings of all time, Golarion. Shortly after discovering this setting and beginning to immerse myself in it I began to contemplate building a Neverwinter Nights server within it. This concern was pushed to the wayside though due to a schedule busy with family, work, and already working on another server http://cage.planarlegends.com/.

Then about a month ago the server I was working on slowed down and I found myself with free time again in regards to my Neverwinter Nights involvement. Shortly after this the news for Pathfinder Online hit and that really ignited my interest in building a Pathfinder NWN server. So for the last week I’ve been formulating, contacting NWN friends to bounce ideas off of, and planning as I try and decide if this project is worth starting.

Which brings me to my main question, how interested would the Pathfinder community be in playing on a Golarion based NWN server? I’m leaning towards the setting being based out of Varisia, I’m just trying to decide whether to have the server center be either Sandpoint or Riddleport at this point.

With the current price of NWN (only 10 dollars at Good Old Games http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/neverwinter_nights_diamond_edition) it’s a very accessible game for those of you who might be new to it or looking to get back into it but can’t find your CDs.


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Amen, brother. Let there be Pathfinder NWN.

Andoran

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As above :)

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There's also the recently released Neverwinter Nights Complete. It contains:

Neverwinter Nights
Shadows of Undrentide
Hordes of the Underdark
Kingmaker

Neverwinter Nights 2
Mask of the Betrayer
Storm of Zehir
Mysteries of Westgate

In addition, you can now download for free the three premium modules that were long unsupported by Neverwinter Nights. A validation screen still comes up, but after a minute or so, it goes away it lets you play the game. These premium modules include:

Pirates of the Sword Coast
Infinite Dungeons
Wyvern Crown of Cormyr

And finally, one last free expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights can be downloaded: Darkness over Daggerford.

So, Neverwinter Nights Complete, for the price of $30 and a bit of downloading time, gives you the equivalent of a dozen games.


darth_borehd wrote:
Amen, brother. Let there be Pathfinder NWN.


I hate to be an ol' grump in this subject but personally I don't see whole of a lot of difference between D&D 3.0 and pathfinder. I might be a bit to uneducated on the pathfinder rules but to what I know it doesn't add or change anthing mayor really...

As most of the classes or systems you are trying to change are hardcoded it will be very difficult to do the changes needed...and risking creating new bugs, incononsistencies and other in the game.

About the lore it doesn't differ all that much.

You see a lot of NWN servers saying they have this lore or that lore or that they are a vampire server or "X" kind of server...
...personally I think it still boils down to how the whole thing is designed.

I am no way saying you shouldn't do it. If its what tickles your belly...sure go ahead...you might even get players just for waving a pathfinder flag...but please...concentrate on the design :-P


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
darth_borehd wrote:
Amen, brother. Let there be Pathfinder NWN.

+1 ! :)


superfly2000 wrote:

I hate to be an ol' grump in this subject but personally I don't see whole of a lot of difference between D&D 3.0 and pathfinder. I might be a bit to uneducated on the pathfinder rules but to what I know it doesn't add or change anthing mayor really...

As most of the classes or systems you are trying to change are hardcoded it will be very difficult to do the changes needed...and risking creating new bugs, incononsistencies and other in the game.

About the lore it doesn't differ all that much.

You see a lot of NWN servers saying they have this lore or that lore or that they are a vampire server or "X" kind of server...
...personally I think it still boils down to how the whole thing is designed.

I am no way saying you shouldn't do it. If its what tickles your belly...sure go ahead...you might even get players just for waving a pathfinder flag...but please...concentrate on the design :-P

Yeah, I'm sadly not going to be able to do much to bring the NWN rules to Pathfinder because the amount of scripting required for that level of change isn't one I'm capable of replicating. I never had any intentions of changing the rule set, perhaps I should have made that more clear and for that I apologize. I would however like to bring a couple of the more off balance classes more in line with how they are in 3.5 (ie. increase the number of skill points bards get, give rangers more feats, etc.).

The purpose of this server is more to use the wonderful and detailed campaign setting that Paizo has created and to give those of us who love it a persistent and digital means to RP in it before PFO launches.


I see....

...However...there is an easier way to make some classes better. Simply throw in some good power and good priced gear for thoose classes.

For my server I was thinking to remove the most obviously overpowered prestige classes also...and perhaps even have a multiclass restrictions system that stops the 1 fghter/19 m-user configurations... instead needing to have at least 1/4 or even 1/3 in ratio between classes (except prestige classes). Still unsure how to solve that technically.


Not really worried so much about scripting in balance regarding multi-classing. Establishing some basic rules such as "Must take 3 levels of any class", etc. typically works better than scripting in such changes. As for power balancing in regards to OP classes, at this point that's very much on the back burner for this project. But I do have a few ideas that don't involve throwing uber powered gear around, I'm wanting to keep this in the mid range in regards to gear power.

I still need a team, which was partially the purpose for this post. I need to see if anyone would be interested in trying their hand at building, scripting (basically coding using C), etc. I'll be posting something up on the Bioware forums as well to see if anyone is between projects at the moment.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As an aside this is already being developed (twice even if I remember right). There was a couple servers that announced their intention on the Bioware Forums of making a Pathfinder server (and trying to swap NWN to Pathfinder rules). You'd have to do a search there but they are looking for help I know and last I heard are still working on it.

On another note, Hey Rat. :P


Heh, hey Al.

Actually both of those attempts (both by the same person trying at two different times) have since fallen by the way side. The person in charge of them never managed to really get very far with either attempt sadly.


Currently stuck trying to find a good tileset to represent Riddleport.

Which looks like: http://images.wikia.com/pathfinder/images/e/ea/Riddleport.jpg

Problem being a relative lack of dark wood city exterior tilesets. So far I have found this http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7108/gothiccityexterior.jpg which I'm willing to settle for if I can't find something more fitting.


Kthulhu wrote:

There's also the recently released Neverwinter Nights Complete. It contains:

Pirates of the Sword Coast
Infinite Dungeons
Wyvern Crown of Cormyr

And finally, one last free expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights can be downloaded: Darkness over Daggerford.

So, Neverwinter Nights Complete, for the price of $30 and a bit of downloading time, gives you the equivalent of a dozen games.

Linky?

Shadow Lodge

First off, the way you edited my quote is rather disingenuous. It makes it look like what I was saying was that the three premium modules were included in Neverwinter Nights: Complete. Secondly, I'm not sure what you're asking for in terms of a link.

A link to Neverwinter Nights: Complete? If so, check the Atari page, or the Amazon.com page

A link about the fact that the three premium modules that had been unplayable for years will now work without authentication? I don't remember where I read that the authentication was no longer necessary, but I downloaded them and was able to play. Can't find it anymore, but I did find the download links:

Pirates of the Sword Coast

Infinite Dungeons

Wyvern Crown of Cormyr

And the download for Darkness over Daggerford [as well as the very useful Community Expansion Pack (CEP) and Players Resource Consortium (PRC)] can be found at the Neverwinter Vault.


I would love to play a NWN or NWN2 long module set on either Greyhawk or Goralion, even if it follows the old 3.5 rules.


Darkness over Daggerford is also in my opinion the best of the various premium modules, so we lucked out that that is the free one for the community.


Deal going on at GoG.com right now until the end of the year. NWN: Platinum is only $5, best time you'll likely ever see to take advantage of this price.

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/neverwinter_nights_diamond_edition


Old thread but, I'm looking at doing something simular, but from the other angle. I'm finishing up on an adventure I'm doing for a Greyhawk world and am looking at converting the Serpent Skull AP next as it fits with what I'm doing. I go active/inactive with NWN, but right now I'm active on it, my scripting skills have recovered and things are running smooth. My main slowdown is RL and not having a lot of time.

NWN2 would be better to work with since its 3.5, but the outdoor maps would take a lot more time to do than with NWN1, so I'll stick with that.


Randomdays, if you ever think about doing it for NWN2 again, the one thing I was good at in the toolset was designing the outdoor maps and I really enjoyed doing it, so I'd definitely volunteer to help out with that. I don't have the game installed right now, but I could certainly be convinced to reinstall. I'd need access to the actual maps that would need recreation but it would be a fun project I think.

Shadow Lodge

... I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


Long post ahead - be warned.

DeathQuaker, thanks for the offer.

I've already started do some basic ground work with NWN1,but I do have NWN2 installed. I'd have to go through what's included with the expansions and what's on NWNVault to see what's available for what I want to do. For NWN2, I'd have to look at scripting differences and see how they handled their meshes. NWN1 has a much larger creature catalog already as well as more terrain choices. Meshing, skinning and animating takes time and I'd have to see what available and what's missing. I have a feeling I'll stick with NWN for now and maybe look at doing a different AP for NWN2 at a later date. As a Base, I'll be using just the CEP and new portraits as mandatory adds. The PRC and the henchman AI would be possiblities as well.

Looking over the APs, I've decided to start with Serpent's Skull. I like the Smuggler's Skiv adventure - it fits well with the area I'm working on and it has something I've been looking for - NPC's that would make good henchmen. The 5 shipwreck survivors are good characters to work with. Since a lot more people would play the NWN version alone as compared to PnP with a group, this will help a lot. With at least 2, if not 3, henchman added to your character for support, things would work out well. Once each of the 6 AP's was completed and tested, I'd probably go back through and add some conversation points for them to add flavor - since each already has a defined personality that would help guide things.

I know that there's a lot of adventures converted to NWN1 already, but I decided to do my own take and avoid even looking at what's already out there. I picked the coast of Keoland to start with - it has both the U1-3 trilogy and I7 - Baltron's Beacon nearby. All good low level quests.

U1 is complete as written in the module, plus I took the town of Saltmarsh from the DMG2 and scaled it down to fit the earlier timeframe. All that's left is to flesh out the town with some more shops and subquests for flavor and to bug test.

I had been trying to decide on adding X1 to the area, the update in Dungeon 114, or tieing in the Savage tide AP. Serpent's Skull won out.
Gradsul would make a great starting point and instead of just starting on the beach, I'd start there and do some intro scenes at sea before the wreck.

Also in the area, I'll be adding U2-3, I7, an adventure from Dungeon that I think fits well, and possibly DCC 55 if I can make it fit. Anything with a lighthouse, tropical or piratey type of adventure would fit well in the area - Skull and Shackles is a definite possibility.


Hmmm..... Reading up on some other posts, it looks like Paizo would have no problem with someone creating an original adventure set in Golarion, but would have a problem with recreating an existing AP or story.

So I could go ahead and recreate Serpent's Skull for myself - there'd be no way for anyone to know if I didn't talk about it, but I couldn't post it or share it with anyone. It'd be nice if I could show screen shots or talk about it, but I'm not sure if even that would be allowed.

I'll try to update on progress if people are interested, unless told otherwise. MAybe someone in Paizo could pop in and make a comment.

I think I can make a pretty good recreation within the limits of the engine, and would like to share it if I could.


You could probably design it and use the DM client to run the AP via NWN--I am not sure if that still violates things, but I would see it as akin to copying things for your players at a tabletop game. (IANAL, IANAPR {Paizo representative})

But you couldn't put it on the Vault for others to download, just share the files directly with the group you'd be running the game with.

Now, of course people recreate games and modules in NWN all the time when it's probably an IP violation (the recreation of the Gold Box games for example), and yet can throw it up on the Vault to have it downloaded. I really don't know where folks draw the line to pursue the issue or not.


I'm completely guessing, but I would bet there would be no problem with designing an adventure path in the toolset and running it for yourself and friends. Putting it up on Neverwinter Vault, on the other hand, is kind of like offering the adventure for free via a torrent, and that might be where the line is drawn.

Again, this is all guessing on my part.


Well, till I hear otherwise, I'll just design away - it will take a while to get the 1st chapter done, let alone the whole AP.

For the Gold Box games, etc, It might be overlooked because 1) SSI is out of business 2) The games are over 20 years old, 3)they're official D&D adventures being used with an NWN, an official D&D game or 4)WotC/ Hasbro just isn't pursuing it. For Paizo, it might be different (wouldn't an official Pathfinder NWN type of game be great though)

DeathQuaker, without going into spoilers for the AP, I went through the bestiary for NWN2 and saw a lot of creatures I would need were missing, where with NWN1 and CEP I have them or something close.

For the 1st part, I'm doing some setup scenes before the official AP start - the docks at Gradsul and the ship at sea where you can talk to the passengers and crew a little. I went through the Vault last night looking for scripts/ hacks on movable ships and such and found a few that should work.


Questions for anyone listening ;

Would requiring food and drink consumption be a + or a - to a game? Not as in WOW where its used for mana/ hp gen, but more as in have health deteriorate every day without it. Would you find it tedious to have to stop adventuring to hunt, or keep room in your pack for water bottles/ iron rations, etc. ?

Temperature - Serpent's Skull AP deals some with the issue of armor and fighting in high heat. Frostburn by WotC for 3.5 deals with cold. Would having to deal with high/ low temperatures add to a game or be tedius?

I'm speaking in mainly about in computer a RPG, but for PnP as well. How many groups actually take the time to use these type of rules?

Shadow Lodge

For my games, unless my players are in a situation where it's illogical that they wouldn't - such as spending a month lost in a desert or wandering well off the trail into the wilderness and being forced to forage - I generally don't make them keep track and just assume "you stock up on water, rations, ammunition, and other basic provisions every time you hit a town".

Having played on a NWN server that required "food" and "bedroll" items in your inventory to rest and regain HP/Spells, it was rather frustrating sometimes. Pretty much all of my characters ended up having an entire page or at least half of one filled with nothing but little blue egg ration items, just to avoid the annoying "you are hungry - you cannot rest" message. I'd consider it a minus.

Temperature is okay. As long as there's plenty of warning that it'll be an issue and doesn't blindside the players, allowing them to make proper preparation, go for it.


Curious if Orthos ever did anything with his idea here.

I've since re-opened this original concept; family matters, a move, new job, etc. kind of had to shelf this back when I originally came up with it.

I am looking for some assistance with this endeavour, even if you have no experience with the Aurora engine I could use website developers, and even just brainstormers to shoot ideas at.


Here's a quick showing of some built areas.

This is Nix, a trade outpost at the mouth of the River Bdonge on Lake Ocota in the Mwangi Expanse and the server's core civilized hub. Why is it barren and appearing to be sliced directly out of the bowels of the earth? Good question and a core component of the over arching story behind the shadow drenched location. Even in the middle of the day the sun's rays very faintly grace the seemingly cursed ground and outside noises are muffled as if filtered through a wet blanket. How this mysterious place inexplicably appeared along the lake shore one day is a mystery to be solved by the players.
Nix 1
Nix 2

These next two screenies show the area I'm closest to finishing. It's a two level inn/tavern, you'll see in the second pictures what look like a ton of screens. These are to act as dividers between small "dining" areas for people seeking some level of privacy in their conversation. Also you might notice in the second pic a foggy area on the right side of the screen. There will be a "stage" type area there for everything from exotic dancing to musical entertainment. This will be the primary/sole tavern available within Nix.
Nix Inn 1
Nix Inn 2

Once upon a time I had intended this location to be a dungeon for a group of half-water elemental pirates of Dagon for a pirate themed server I was helping a friend with. He ended up dropping the idea and I continued on the zone until finished. Now it's sitting around just begging to be used. It's by far the best (and largest) dungeon I've ever built and would likely take a solid group of equivalent level PCs a couple of hours to fully clear. Changing a few details to bring it in line with the Mwangi would be a very simple matter.
Water Cave


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That inn looks strangely familiar...

I'd definitely pop in some time if you host it anyway. Good to see you around Rat!


Hey Al! Good to see you still around here buddy.

Shadow Lodge

Quote:
Curious if Orthos ever did anything with his idea here.

Wasn't my idea, heh, I was just commenting here at the time >_>

And I agree, that inn does look very familiar. A certain batch of Tieflings tended to hang out in one very much like it...


Orthos wrote:
Quote:
Curious if Orthos ever did anything with his idea here.

Wasn't my idea, heh, I was just commenting here at the time >_>

And I agree, that inn does look very familiar. A certain batch of Tieflings tended to hang out in one very much like it...

Makes me happy to know it was actually used once upon a time. I'd built it a while ago for a server I used to run (Abyss 404), when that went down it moved over to WSI. Never knew it was frequented regularly but that does bring a smile to know it was used by people.


What a coincidence, I just picked up NWN Diamond the other day. Just my luck, though, it turns out that it doesn't like to work with Windows 7... Gonna work on it, though! I'd kill to play again.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Anyone know whether there is still an Updater anywhere? I changed over to a newer PC a few years ago, and couldn't locate the Updater - seemed like it was a dead duck. I asked the admins at NWNVault, but I didn't get any help... :(
Not really surprised as it is very old. Still, I am curious. NWN got me conversant with 3e and NWN II with 3.5.
Plus I made some nice environments in NWN (thanks to mods by the excellent community!)and a little adventure that nobody ever played! I ran a Monk/Paladin through the entire Neverwinter Nights and Hordes of the Underdark. Lotsa fun....


The NWN Updater is defunct since all the hosting/main server support from Bioware was taken down.

You'll need to search for the 1.69 critical update. Some people have hosted it for free.


ebon_fyre wrote:

The NWN Updater is defunct since all the hosting/main server support from Bioware was taken down.

You'll need to search for the 1.69 critical update. Some people have hosted it for free.

This. *points up*

Here's a link to it on NWVault: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=1505

Shadow Lodge

entropyrat wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Quote:
Curious if Orthos ever did anything with his idea here.

Wasn't my idea, heh, I was just commenting here at the time >_>

And I agree, that inn does look very familiar. A certain batch of Tieflings tended to hang out in one very much like it...

Makes me happy to know it was actually used once upon a time. I'd built it a while ago for a server I used to run (Abyss 404), when that went down it moved over to WSI. Never knew it was frequented regularly but that does bring a smile to know it was used by people.

I forget the name of it, but it's now a fiend-run tavern and inn in Sigil on WSI. It's been a couple of years since I played there so I don't know how busy it is now, heh.


Thanks for the link, Wolf.


Aside from a couple of scripters I'm basically building this solo, so any assistance is greatly appreciated. Building in NWN isn't as scary as it might sound, once you have a solid foundation under you you'll find that it's incredibly fun and easy to do.


Be interesting to see some of the APs done up in the NWN1/2 engine. Although certain things would need to be changed due to the 3.5 rules and limitations of the engine.


Still working on doing Serpent's Skull in NWN1. Just finished mapping out "The Caves of the Mother" and am working on the cannibal's area above it. 1st module might do done be March or so and ready for a playtest.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Color me interested.

This is basically a dot for later.


Thanks. There's a little more info and screenshots here - I'll try to update soon.

Serpent's Skull conversion.

I think a test group of four, six at most would work best. Players should be hopefully be familiar with NWN 1.69 already.So far I'm keeping the CEP as the only required addon. Perhaps the CCP or PRC as well. A few optional addons on the player's end like the improved trees or player bodies from the Vault might be useful as well.

So far every monster in the module is available in NWN with CEP installed but one. I'll have to reskin one of the existing creatures to get it in since its an important one.

Spoiler:
As far as I know, there's no Gibbering Mouther.If the CCP doesn't have it, i'll probably reskin an ooze and add it in.

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