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We will only be using Bestiary 1 since it is the only Bestiary listed under core assumptions.
Will there be any restrictions aside from that or will players be allowed to select any juiced-up monstrousity they can comeup with?
Let me repeatmy suggestion of making this ability strctly in-game use only (i.e. not usable in between scenarios).
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So, in short:
An Undead Lord can begin play with an Undead Companion, which persists between scenarios/modules.
Said starting monster, and all replacements created, are built off the base monster, with no template added except the appropriate undead (skeleton or zombie) template needed to make it an undead companion.
Assumption:
Any gear for the undead companion, just like any other companion or familiar, need to be purchased by the PC master, out of their own funds.
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So, in short:
An Undead Lord can begin play with an Undead Companion, which persists between scenarios/modules.
Said starting monster, and all replacements created, are built off the base monster, with no template added except the appropriate undead (skeleton or zombie) template needed to make it an undead companion.
Assumption:
Any gear for the undead companion, just like any other companion or familiar, need to be purchased by the PC master, out of their own funds.
Yes
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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YesSo, in short:
An Undead Lord can begin play with an Undead Companion, which persists between scenarios/modules.
Said starting monster, and all replacements created, are built off the base monster, with no template added except the appropriate undead (skeleton or zombie) template needed to make it an undead companion.
Assumption:
Any gear for the undead companion, just like any other companion or familiar, need to be purchased by the PC master, out of their own funds.
Can we get that in the FAQ, so as to have that answer easily accessible to all? Otherwise, much like the Ioun Torch, I fear there will be Table Variance on this issue.
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I'm seriously considering playing an Undead lord but I'd prefer to keep the options limited to humans, or possibly creatures encountered on an AR and signed by the GM.
I looked at this before and I think skeletal Hydras were about 5HD, which is pushing it. Its a nice idea, and skeletal riding dogs might be fine, but including all the bestiaries would be asking for trouble. Besides which, walking through town with a cowled human skeleton is one thing, but walking through town with a skeletal hydra could really mess up the scenario.
As a GM i don't worry too much about what someone has animated as long as it within the guidelines. Similarly is the Eidelon who a summoner can inhabit, I have seen some frightening builds at 2nd level for this.
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As a GM i don't worry too much about what someone has animated as long as it within the guidelines. Similarly is the Eidelon who a summoner can inhabit, I have seen some frightening builds at 2nd level for this.
I agree. After reconsidering I don't think corpse companions come close to what animal companions and eidolons can do.
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I agree. After reconsidering I don't think corpse companions come close to what animal companions and eidolons can do.
As a GM i don't worry too much about what someone has animated as long as it within the guidelines. Similarly is the Eidelon who a summoner can inhabit, I have seen some frightening builds at 2nd level for this.
Hrm....skeletal dragon mount? Oh, now I could like that.....
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Hrm....skeletal dragon mount? Oh, now I could like that.....I agree. After reconsidering I don't think corpse companions come close to what animal companions and eidolons can do.
As a GM i don't worry too much about what someone has animated as long as it within the guidelines. Similarly is the Eidelon who a summoner can inhabit, I have seen some frightening builds at 2nd level for this.
And at the level you could actually get an undead dragon as a companion, it probably would not be overpowered.
Let's see, you need to have your mount be one size category larger than you are, so let's assume that you are a Halfling or Gnome Undead Lord Cleric, so you can get by with only a Medium size Dragon.
That requires a Young dragon (category 3) for a Small PC, or Young Adult (category 5) for a Medium PC.
Young is HD + 4, so a Young White Dragon, the Chromatic Dragon with the fewest HD, would have 7, so you couldn't get a skeletal dragon mount until 7th level as a Small PC. And, just as an aside, that would leave the mount with 31 hit points. A Wizard or Sorcerer with a 10 Con would have 30 hp at the same level. Hope you weren't planning on getting your mount into situations where it is going to be a target... Note that the CR for this 7HD undead companion would be 3, where the PCs at this level are CR 6.
Young Adult is HD + 8, so a Medium PC couldn't get that skeletal white dragon mount until 11th level. Again, this dragon mount would have only 49 hit points. A Wizard or Sorcerer at this level would have 46, not counting Con mod. Fragile. CR for this undead companion would be 5, compared to the PCs at 10...
Add in all the stuff that the Dragon loses by becoming Undead, and I doubt it would break much of anything.
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Hrm....skeletal dragon mount? Oh, now I could like that.....I agree. After reconsidering I don't think corpse companions come close to what animal companions and eidolons can do.
As a GM i don't worry too much about what someone has animated as long as it within the guidelines. Similarly is the Eidelon who a summoner can inhabit, I have seen some frightening builds at 2nd level for this.And at the level you could actually get an undead dragon as a companion, it probably would not be overpowered.
Let's see, you need to have your mount be one size category larger than you are, so let's assume that you are a Halfling or Gnome Undead Lord Cleric, so you can get by with only a Medium size Dragon.
That requires a Young dragon (category 3) for a Small PC, or Young Adult (category 5) for a Medium PC.
Young is HD + 4, so a Young White Dragon, the Chromatic Dragon with the fewest HD, would have 7, so you couldn't get a skeletal dragon mount until 7th level as a Small PC. And, just as an aside, that would leave the mount with 31 hit points. A Wizard or Sorcerer with a 10 Con would have 30 hp at the same level. Hope you weren't planning on getting your mount into situations where it is going to be a target... Note that the CR for this 7HD undead companion would be 3, where the PCs at this level are CR 6.
Young Adult is HD + 8, so a Medium PC couldn't get that skeletal white dragon mount until 11th level. Again, this dragon mount would have only 49 hit points. A Wizard or Sorcerer at this level would have 46, not counting Con mod. Fragile. CR for this undead companion would be 5, compared to the PCs at 10...
Add in all the stuff that the Dragon loses by becoming Undead, and I doubt it would break much of anything.
Oh, I know the stats would not be all that amazing...but for the sheer and unadulterated awesome factor of it? I want me an undead lord cleric....
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Oh, I know the stats would not be all that amazing...but for the sheer and unadulterated awesome factor of it? I want me an undead lord cleric....
Go for it, and I hope I get to play at the same table with him at one of our local NeonCons...
And do you get to name your undead dragon mount Wings of Death?
On a weird side note, can a skeletal dragon still fly? I would think a zombie dragon could fly, but I don't know how well the flying works with only the bones of wings there...
Oh, I know the stats would not be all that amazing...but for the sheer and unadulterated awesome factor of it? I want me an undead lord cleric....
My Undead Lord just hit level 6. I must say, you might be disappointed in how little you are in a party that lets you use your full class abilities without causing friction. Just don't get your hopes up about a corpse companion, animating dead, and extra healing for undead.
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Oh, I know the stats would not be all that amazing...but for the sheer and unadulterated awesome factor of it? I want me an undead lord cleric....My Undead Lord just hit level 6. I must say, you might be disappointed in how little you are in a party that lets you use your full class abilities without causing friction. Just don't get your hopes up about a corpse companion, animating dead, and extra healing for undead.
Around these parts, we are open for any alignment as long as you play it for fun. And if I can manage to get this guy leveled and to NeonCon, I'll definitely be showing that off!
Also, it would need to be a zombie dragon, skeletal dragon can't fly. But, a skeleton dragon could still run and look cool, so....*shrug*
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Here's my take on the situation, after discussing with a PFS DM when I wanted to do an Undead Lord:
1) the ritual requires a corpse, and as corpses are NOT listed as equipment, you will not be able to "purchase" one ever
2) you can animate a corpse during an encounter, but keep in mind that it takes 8 hours, and you aren't always given that amount of time
3) your corpse companion COULD POSSIBLY persist between encounters but it will require the DM signing off on it at the end of the session, allowing different DMs to interpret the rules as they see fit
4) as undead are a prevalent enemy in PFS, your companion could most likely take a lot of friendly fire from the cleric channeling positive to harm undead
5) the second most numerous enemy are humanoids, and turning them into a skeleton or zombie results in the loss of ALL their class levels, making the companion a 1-2 HD creature again
6) you MUST ALWAYS run archetypes and alternate features by the DM prior to the game beginning, and the DM for that session has the right to veto your character being used for the session and you must use another or be assigned to a different table (making it a good idea to level your undead lord parallel with another character)
I decided to go with something else just for sake of ease. If you go for it, might I recommend the Osiran Faction, as they believe the undead to be their ancestors walking in the world once again. ^_^
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the DM for that session has the right to veto your character being used for the session
While I agree that some character aspects have interpretation issues that can lead to table variation, a GM vetoing your character in its entirety is overstepping their authority. Sure, a GM can refuse to sit a particular player at their table, but there should be a very good reason for it, usually the result of repeated offenses such as pre-reading the scenario and spoiling the plot with meta-game knowledge, excessive rules-lawyering, cheating, or just being disruptive. As long as a character is rules legal, it would be a pretty jerk move, IMO, for a GM to refuse to allow you to play because s/he didn't like the concept or didn't want to deal with a interpretive class feature.
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Just in a related note - to help a GM;
In which countries is it allowed to openly walk with an undead through town.
In which countries is this a capital offence.
As GM - how do I deal with that?
I know that there is a single quarter in the city of Strangers that openly embraces Necromancy. But even there undead are put down if they show some will of there own.
I can't believe that Andoran - which hates slavery and undead sometimes being described as worst form of slavery would look positive on someone walking openly with an undead.
I bring this up because of an incident in my last game in Rahadoum where a priest wanted to walk around in full regalia. Told by a fellow player that this isn't working she still insisted this is how my priest looks like.
I had to take the player to the side and explain all religion is outlawed here. If you go shipping on the market for items - either ask someone to buy stuff for you, hide your regalia - or game over and you get arrested.
This was pretty inconsequential as all I asked was take a cloak and hide your allegiance to your god. This didn't even take anything away.
So as GM do I hand wave it. Or do I become a jerk GM informing a player about local customs.
Yes - as cleric of Sarenrae I also don't walk openly in Taldor. But hiding a holy symbol is easier as hiding an undead (dragon ?).
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Thod, these questions are the very reason many play the game. Not all challenges are combat based. If you decide to select a "questionable" profession (cleric of an evil god, animating the dead, etc) you draw attention to yourself. It breaks verisimilitude to just ignore those features. It can affect animal companions, familiars, etc as well.
For me, these are the things that differentiate RPG's from MMO's and make the campaign "live and breathe."
You are not a jerk if you enforce reasonable expectations like what you described in the Rahadoum example. IMO, the player would be jerky for objecting to it. YMMV
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Yes - as cleric of Sarenrae I also don't walk openly in Taldor.
You know, I almost forgot about that. We played an adventure in Taldor where it was mentioned that worship of Sarenrae was banned, so I did know about that.
But now I have a cleric of Sarenrae as another character, and she has the symbol of her goddess painted on her shield (along with hand held holy symbols, of course). That could be an issue if she ever has to go there.
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So... What Weapon and Armor Proficiencies do the Bestiary Skeletons and other base creatures have?
"Attacks: A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can't work without flesh. A creature with hands gains one claw attack per hand; the skeleton can strike with each of its claw attacks at its full attack bonus. A claw attack deals damage depending on the skeleton's size (see Natural Attacks table below.) If the base creature already had claw attacks with its hands, use the skeleton claw damage only if it's better."
Whatever your skeleton could use before hand, it can use now. The only problem is determining the base creature's proficiencies, which are determined by class and not race for the core 7 races (minus, of course, a few racial weapons).
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I've actually read a post by a guy that sort of does that. Though it was a home game and the portable hole was actually a casket that his corpse companion minotaur carried around and the corpses were already animated.
Now, if you want to carry around corpses for animating, decompose corpse and restore corpse are your friends. Decompose the corpse, pick up the bones, store the bones. If you want a skeleton, reassemble then raise. If you want a zombie, reassemble and restore corpse then raise. Its best if you have the bones in their own bags by skeleton, otherwise they might get mixed up, and that's no good. ;)
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I've actually read a post by a guy that sort of does that. Though it was a home game and the portable hole was actually a casket that his corpse companion minotaur carried around and the corpses were already animated.
Now, if you want to carry around corpses for animating, decompose corpse and restore corpse are your friends. Decompose the corpse, pick up the bones, store the bones. If you want a skeleton, reassemble then raise. If you want a zombie, reassemble and restore corpse then raise. Its best if you have the bones in their own bags by skeleton, otherwise they might get mixed up, and that's no good. ;)
you do have a valid point ... but I think the flavor (Not to mention the smell from the portable hole) of a bunch of rotting corpses would add its own experience to the character
I just love the Idea of a Portable body Dump ... a corpse for every Occasion ;-p
Horse Corpse ...
Large Dragon Corpse
Wolf Corpse
Bear Corpse
Owlbear corpse
I think I could write a song about this
you could just go ridiculous and get a skeleton unfettered eidolon
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tho one issue I am seeing is as you gain levels ... is there anything against just advancing the skeleton you already have ? increasing its HD ect. and keeping it a Human(oid) ?
Im just looking at it and if you buy the Skeleton gear ... you have to keep it in the same Size Catagory ...and Assuming Humanoid the same general shape and size
you could probably stave it off for the 1st 7 levels by going with -
1 std Skeleton
2 std Zombie / Bloody or Burning Skeleton
3 (no Idea) / Bloody or Burning Skeleton
4 (No Idea) /Zombie - Fast or plague
5 (No Idea) /Zombie - Fast or plague
but once you Cross into 6th level ... it becomes an issue ... is Standard Skeletal advancment allowed ? ... what about advancment on variants ?
and how Difficult would it be ... do you think ... to Locate Humanoid Corpses of things like Gnolls, Lizardfolk, Troglodytes ect ?
tho one issue I am seeing is as you gain levels ... is there anything against just advancing the skeleton you already have ? increasing its HD ect. and keeping it a Human(oid) ?
As Mark and Mike say above: base monsters only.
