Arguing over a Sun Blade.


Advice

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seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Honestly, I or you do not know. He has changed the details more then once in this thread. I do know based only off his posts he is playing an evil pc and seems to be bulling the rest of the group.

And some GM's allow you to keep a feat slot and spend it later. It is not an uncommon rule.

Read the thread, before you dig your hole any deeper, read the thread. I've tried everything I could to avoid the situation becoming violent between our PCs. Her character is threatening my character with the violence of monsters and a very unforgiving Geass, I'm threatening her character with a bit more direct violence.

Silver Crusade

Dennis Baker wrote:
In the summary view that shows all the threads if you look next to the thread name there is a little circle with a slash through it " ". Click on that. It's like having your own little thread locking mechanism.

OMG thank you for that information. Muhahaha

*runs off and hides all the crazy threads that I can't stop reading*


Blue Star wrote:
I also said how I handled TWF being a "trap" it's been pretty efficient. I haven't really been using TWF even after I got the Sun Blade, I still sword and board, and I only switch to TWF when I have a good opportunity. Typically I'll vanish, wait until one of my allies gets into melee, begin the flank, and use TWF the moment I get the chance."

Wait..so it is a secondary weapon for your Back up fighting style? Yeah.........


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Blue Star wrote:
everyone already has a hat of some kind so no one wanted the headband

Note that those are two different item slots. You can wear both a hat and a headband.

Ghenn wrote:
If this is going to be an issue, and it's causing strife (which it obviously is), isn't it just better to give her the sun sword and be done with it?

Nope. Went over it a few times, but here I go again: She's being a child, holding her breath until she gets something. You don't give in to that sort of behaviour, because it only encourages the child to do it all the time.

Giving in to her constant whining puts you at the risk of having to deal with a greedy Abadar worshipper next - one who insists on getting all coins, since Abadar is the money guy. Or, better yet, a champion of Norgorber, who goes all for his greed aspect and demands to get everything. Greed, you know.

And even if nothing so drastic happens, there will be other instances where she will get her will by nothing more than whining until she gets it.

Blackpawn wrote:

You're causing the disruption at the table. It's in your power to escalate the situation or defuse it. You want to choose escalate. That means *you* are the problem.

I always wonder who is responsible for all those terrible children running around being insufferable little brats.

How many of those are yours?

Blackpawn wrote:


You need to step back, gain a mature perspective, and realize that you're playing an imagination game.

You need to step back, open your eyes, and realise that this goes beyond an "imagination game". It's about someone acting like a child. Her parents apparently failed at raising her properly, but that doesn't mean she now gets her will at all times.

Blackpawn wrote:


You have the choice. Be the adult and focus on the game. Or be the child and throw a tantrum and break things if you don't get your way.

You got it all wrong: That's her. She's throwing the tantrum. Him not giving in to a tantrum IS the adult thing to do.

Blackpawn wrote:
You could solve the problem in 5 seconds, yet you don't. You're dragging out the issue. You're at fault as much as the other player.

Again: Giving in to childish demands does not solve problems, it creates more problems.

Blackpawn wrote:


You think you deserve it because you're minmaxing

Just because he's effective doesn't mean it's minmaxing. He's the frontliner, he fights with two weapons, he only has one good weapon in addition to the sun blade. That means it makes a lot of sense from a technical AND a roleplaying point of view.

Blackpawn wrote:
Even though from an RP perspective it's best in someone else's.

Translation: You have no idea what roleplaying is.

You think because the name is similar to the character's god, it's suddenly a roleplaying reason. It's not. It's a munchkin's pretence.

The fact that you're clueless is further illustrated by the fact that you call someone a minmaxer for making decisions using sensible reasons.

Blackpawn wrote:
And you have a perfectly servicable weapon to use, plus one that is RP-flavored properly for your character. You're munchkinning at this point.

How is a wakizashi flavoured properly for a ninja? It's the opposite. Ninja aren't part of the samurai caste. That means they're not entitled to a wakizashi. If any one weapon is the proper weapon, it's a ninja-to, i.e. a katana that has been stolen and crudely shortened. But, really, the real ninja fights with whatever he can get his hands on, whatever works best. They don't concern themselves with crap like honour and divine mandate. That's why they're ninja. They're against all that celestial order bullshit.

So for trying to defend a petulant child who wants a sword because it has the name "sun" in it - even though she can't even wield it properly (because she never learned to use swords AND because she is a crappy warrior) AND her deity is a crusader against irredeemable evil and wants them to perish not people be hung up with crap like "this sword is the right colour for me" - and calling him munchkin for not giving in, you out yourself not just as a munchkin, but as a clueless munchkin.

DrDeth wrote:
I don’t think he ever answered the question about how often he’d use the Sun Power (which is the last thing I’d see a Ninja type ever using, as it makes you a clear and obvious target).

Why would that even be relevant? He uses the sword to hack up undead by the dozen. That's what the sword is for: Fight the undead. He fights the undead.

And a ninja will use whatever makes sense. In the case of undead that are destroyed by sunlight, that is the sword's sunlight ability. If that never comes up, he'll never have to use it. Doesn't mean he doesn't put the sword to good use.

DrDeth wrote:

I think the Oracle players wants the sword as she sees that her WBL is about half the ninjas and also she wants to whup some undead tail rather than just being a boring healbot all the time- good for her!

Except that a sword does not an undead slayer make. It helps, but if you're weak, clumsy, frail, and untrained in swordsmanship, the sword won't keep you from being torn to shreds by those undead.

Plus, you don't decide that you don't want to be the healer any more in the middle of a deadly dungeon.

DrDeth wrote:


It also appears to me that another big reason the OP doesn’t want the Oracle to have the sword as she will be in there fighting instead of keeping HIS PC alive by being a good little healbot.

Yeah, how weird of him to want to be healed.

Could you leave now and go back to your WoW or whatever you play where cooperation within the group and the combination of different roles to achieve your goals isn't a core concept of the game? Except I think WoW does that, too. So, Diablo player?

LoreKeeper wrote:
Excellent. We're only 2 posts away from Godwin's Law now.

What can he do? People are being either phenomenally stupid or trolling to the extreme here. The normal, reasonable explanation why giving in to a child holding her breath is being ignored, or people fail to understand one of the most basic concepts of human interaction/child upbringing, so you have to make it more crass.

But, on the other hand, you're probably right: Those who just don't get it simply won't get it, and the trolls just get what they want if you lower yourself to their level.

This is a very bad week for the ignore script to fail.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Wait..so it is a secondary weapon for your Back up fighting style? Yeah.........

Secondary weapon to my previously, but now primary, fighting style. Do try to read the entire post. The only other weapon I had aside from the sun blade was the ax, so the sun blade has been my primary weapon for my primary fighting style, for 4 or so levels.

@Kaeyoss: I meant that in a "something for their head" sort of way, the summoner can't even make use of the item, because of his rod of splendor being better, and I'm not sure what slot the oracle's hat takes, it could be the head slot, or the helmet slot.


Blue Star wrote:
Standing by and letting me get killed isn't causing harm? When our characters have been hanging out for a long time and it's expected of her? Especially when you can magically heal someone's wounds up with a touch? I disagree. People have to take responsibilities for their actions, a healer who doesn't heal is useless, and worse they are letting people die because they are throwing a fit.

Nope, she is not required to heal you any more then anyone else she does not want to. You have offended her and it seems her faith.

You caused it, you don't even by you own admission use TWF as your primary attack style. And you keep treating her like a band aid. Honestly I would not heal you either.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Nope, she is not required to heal you any more then anyone else she does not want to. You have offended her and it seems her faith.

You caused it, you don't even by you own admission use TWF as your primary attack style. And you keep treating her like a band aid. Honestly I would not heal you either.

Actually, she has offended her own faith, she just doesn't know it yet.

Faiths of purity page 13, the Sarenrae entry wrote:

Taboos: There are few taboos in your faith, and most of them

deal with casual cruelty or thoughtlessness that might
harm others. When you have been thoughtless
, or when
you have unnecessarily crushed hope or joy—whether on
purpose or inadvertently—you must seek out the wronged
person and obtain his forgiveness. If he does not forgive
you immediately, you must (within limits) serve him for
a period, depending on the severity of the offense. If he
asks you to harm another, your service is ended: you serve
only the good.

I'm pretty sure her inaction counts as thoughtlessness or casual cruelty.

Also, if my character came to harm, under most modern legal systems (including the one in the US), and she didn't do anything about it, she would find herself in prison very quickly.


Blue Star wrote:
Read the thread, before you dig your hole any deeper, read the thread. I've tried everything I could to avoid the situation becoming violent between our PCs. Her character is threatening my character with the violence of monsters and a very unforgiving Geass, I'm threatening her character with a bit more direct violence.

I have read it. You have not tried everything. The simplest thing to do would be to give her the weapon you really do not need. But no, you tied to bully her and plan to kill her pc.

She never threatened you, you have a self entitlement issue. You think she exists solely to heal you when you need it. she seems to disagree.


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seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I have read it. You have not tried everything. The simplest thing to do would be to give her the weapon you really do not need. But no, you tied to bully her and plan to kill her pc.

She never threatened you, you have a self entitlement issue. You think she exists solely to heal you when you need it. she seems to disagree.

No, you haven't, because you honestly think I'm the bully here. Come back when you've actually read it.


KaeYoss wrote:

What can he do? People are being either phenomenally stupid or trolling to the extreme here. The normal, reasonable explanation why giving in to a child holding her breath is being ignored, or people fail to understand one of the most basic concepts of human interaction/child upbringing, so you have to make it more crass.

Only according to the OP. He refuses to invite her or the DM to give their sides. Note that we do have his posts and it’s clear he is being very greedy and demanding of the loot and spotlight.

She just may well be saying “Hey, you have three times the loot as any of the rest of us, how about sharing a little? I’d be fun to do a little damage once ina while, so that “secondary weapon for your Back up fighting style” would be fun and great for roleplaying too”.


Blue Star wrote:

Secondary weapon to my previously, but now primary, fighting style. Do try to read the entire post. The only other weapon I had aside from the sun blade was the ax, so the sun blade has been my primary weapon for my primary fighting style, for 4 or so levels.

How about that +3 adamant katana?


KaeYoss wrote:
Could you leave now and go back to your WoW or whatever you play where cooperation within the group and the combination of different roles to achieve your goals isn't a core concept of the game? Except I think WoW does that, too. So, Diablo player?

My main issue is he has it ingrained that her only job is to heal him.

Even in WoW, healers are more than just walking health pots. They buff, they dispel, they crowd control in 5 mans. Paladins use judgement on enemies, lol disc priests smite, shamans lightning bolt. Sure most of those are mostly to regain mana, but every little bit helps There are even fights where at a point enemies do so much damage healing is useless and they have to switch to all out damage just to ensure the group doesn't wipe.

While I do not believe the oracle should be using a sunblade with her current build. I don't think this problem will ever be solved as long as he views her as nothing but a healbot.

Since he is obviously a powergamer (not the same as a min/maxer) he should know in combat healing is no where near as effective as making things dead/disabled faster. He should be supporting her branching out into a more active role.


DrDeth wrote:

Only according to the OP. He refuses to invite her or the DM to give their sides. Note that we do have his posts and it’s clear he is being very greedy and demanding of the loot and spotlight.

She just may well be saying “Hey, you have three times the loot as any of the rest of us, how about sharing a little? I’d be fun to do a little damage once ina while, so that “secondary weapon for your Back up fighting style” would be fun and great for roleplaying too”.

I never refused, I genuinely don't have the option. What do you want me to do? Pluck their phone numbers out of the ether? I'm afraid I don't have access to the ether either.

I have tried sharing my stuff, the only thing anyone wants is the sun blade, it's the primary weapon I'll be using against all the undead, which there are a lot of, and in all other situations it will be the secondary weapon I use.


DrDeth wrote:
How about that +3 adamant katana?

Go back and read my posts, I'm not repeating myself.


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Blue Star wrote:


@Kaeyoss: I meant that in a "something for their head" sort of way, the summoner can't even make use of the item, because of his rod of splendor being better, and I'm not sure what slot the oracle's hat takes, it could be the head slot, or the helmet slot.

There's the head slot, for hats and helmets.

And there's the headband slot, for headbands and phylacteries.

As far as I know, the only real trouble item that will get in the way of anyone using a headband of int/wis/cha is the phylactery of positive channeling (or negative). It's an item that gives you an extra 2d6 when you channel - except that if the cleric (or oracle) uses it, he has to do without a wis (or cha) booster.

Considering there was a whole moving around of stuff in Pathfinder to make sure everyone can get a belt and/or headband of ability score boosting and still get all the other cool stuff, forcing clerics to choose between better channelling (to be better at healing) and higher wisdom (to be better at healing, buffing, hexing and damaging enemies, as well as better will saves and Perception bonuses) is a counter-intuitive move.


DrDeth wrote:
He refuses to invite her or the DM to give their sides.

That is wrong. Read what the situation is actually like.

DrDeth wrote:


She just may well be saying “Hey, you have three times the loot as any of the rest of us, how about sharing a little? I’d be fun to do a little damage once ina while, so that “secondary weapon for your Back up fighting style” would be fun and great for roleplaying too”.

That is all wrong.


omgabear wrote:

My main issue is he has it ingrained that her only job is to heal him.

Even in WoW, healers are more than just walking health pots. They buff, they dispel, they crowd control in 5 mans. Paladins use judgement on enemies, lol disc priests smite, shamans lightning bolt. Sure most of those are mostly to regain mana, but every little bit helps There are even fights where at a point enemies do so much damage healing is useless and they have to switch to all out damage just to ensure the group doesn't wipe.

While I do not believe the oracle should be using a sunblade with her current build. I don't think this problem will ever be solved as long as he views her as nothing but a healbot.

Since he is obviously a powergamer (not the same as a min/maxer) he should know in combat healing is no where near as effective as making things dead/disabled faster. He should be supporting her branching out into a more active role.

Healers in WoW weren't always like that, I can assure you. They also tend to have more than one healer in WoW, when they don't, what do you think they do? "Heal all the time" is the answer you are looking for. We also don't have any fancy scenarios where "burn it down" is the best option.

What part of "I've never seen her successfully hit something, despite her many attempts." don't you get? She tries swinging a weapon about twice a session, every session, since we were level 3, and I've yet to see her put a point of damage on GOBLINS much less golems, mummies, and scorpions. So, even with this, her damage contribution would be basically nothing.


KaeYoss wrote:

There's the head slot, for hats and helmets.

And there's the headband slot, for headbands and phylacteries.

As far as I know, the only real trouble item that will get in the way of anyone using a headband of int/wis/cha is the phylactery of positive channeling (or negative). It's an item that gives you an extra 2d6 when you channel - except that if the cleric (or oracle) uses it, he has to do without a wis (or cha) booster.

Considering there was a whole moving around of stuff in Pathfinder to make sure everyone can get a belt and/or headband of ability score boosting and still get all the other cool stuff, forcing clerics to choose between better channelling (to be better at healing) and higher wisdom (to be better at healing, buffing, hexing and damaging enemies, as well as better will saves and Perception bonuses) is a counter-intuitive move.

If your GM allows the item customization rules, you can get it as something else, like a wrist slot item.


Blue Star wrote:

Healers in WoW weren't always like that, I can assure you. They also tend to have more than one healer in WoW, when they don't, what do you think they do? "Heal all the time" is the answer you are looking for. We also don't have any fancy scenarios where "burn it down" is the best option.

What part of "I've never seen her successfully hit something, despite her many attempts." don't you get? She tries swinging a weapon about twice a session, every session, since we were level 3, and I've yet to see her put a point of damage on GOBLINS much less golems, mummies, and scorpions. So, even with this, her damage contribution would be basically nothing.

5 mans always have 1 healer, and that is usually when a healer has to crowd control in combat because not all roles are filled.

I see you skipped over the part where I said I don't think the sunblade is for her. She doesn't have to be in melee to do more than heal you. This isn't an all or nothing. It isn't "Do nothing but heal me or do nothing but be a ineffective melee."

There is a compromise to be had in between, and yes that probably involves you ending fights with a few more booboos. So what, she can heal you up after once everything is dead.


omgabear wrote:
My main issue is he has it ingrained that her only job is to heal him.

It is quite clear that that's the only thing the character is good at. Giving her the sword would not only mean giving in to a whining child, it would also mean that unless she never uses the sword (which isn't that unlikely, her main "claim" on it is that it's a sun blade, and her goddess is the sun goddess.), she will get herself killed trying to go up against the kind of killer critters they're fighting. And then the party has no more healer. That probably means they're all going to die.

omgabear wrote:


Even in WoW, healers are more than just walking health pots.

Even in Pathfinder, healers can be so much more. But I doubt that in WoW, this is automatic. Just as it isn't automatic in Pathfinder.

omgabear wrote:


While I do not believe the oracle should be using a sunblade with her current build. I don't think this problem will ever be solved as long as he views her as nothing but a healbot.

Simple cause and effect: As long as she is good for nothing than a "healbot", she won't be seen as anything than a "healbot". Giving her the sword won't make her any good at fighting - and it will make one of the primary frontliners a lot worse at his job.

So unless she gets a new character or has this one ret-conned to be actually able to do anything other than heal, there is no use to giving her the sword. Not in a dangerous dungeon.

omgabear wrote:


Since he is obviously a powergamer (not the same as a min/maxer)

So am I. From you, it sounds like an insult instead of a compliment, which it actually is.

omgabear wrote:
he should know in combat healing is no where near as effective as making things dead/disabled faster. He should be supporting her branching out into a more active role.

Getting one weapon is neither here nor there. The character needs to be remade.

And I don't think the middle of a dungeon is a good place to do anything like this.


omgabear wrote:

5 mans always have 1 healer, and that is usually when a healer has to crowd control in combat because not all roles are filled.

I see you skipped over the part where I said I don't think the sunblade is for her. She doesn't have to be in melee to do more than heal you. This isn't an all or nothing. It isn't "Do nothing but heal me or do nothing but be a ineffective melee."

There is a compromise to be had in between, and yes that probably involves you ending fights with a few more booboos. So what, she can heal you up after once everything is dead.

Oh, whoops. If she built for something else, I wouldn't say anything, but fact of the matter is that she built to be 100% healing, and nothing I can say or do can stop that.

I didn't expect her to even go the 100% healer route, because I thought she had considered the thought that "healing is boring", and taken that into consideration when building her character. Turns out I was very much wrong.

Dark Archive

sadly, I've read most of this thread.

Ninja want sunblade for obvious reasons. (the same reasons every rogue wants one)

Oracle wants sunblade for rp reasons (NOT a bad thing)

BS sees this from a very "practical" sort of view. I'm better with it, I'll use it more, I keep it.

From what we understand BS has the bulk of the magic items (whether they are useful/wanted or not)

IMHO its like a 10-15% damage increase.

Threatening to not heal-petty
threatening to kill them-over the line. D-bag move.

if they wont heal, then dont "tank" for the caster. you should be able to afford plenty of healing supplies at your level. (Also i think you mentioned a level of ranger. you can use wands of cure if you didnt sac casting with a archetype.)


Blue Star wrote:
If your GM allows the item customization rules, you can get it as something else, like a wrist slot item.

In my games, I allow phylacteries in the amulet slot for this reason.

One of the GMs I do have has the "gotta win the game" mentality, so there's not much of a chance to get him to allow this. I have asked for a more sensible variant to have it shot down before.

But right now, I'm not playing a cleric in any of this games. I'm currently thinking of leaving all his games, too, so it might never be an issue again.


KaeYoss wrote:

Getting one weapon is neither here nor there. The character needs to be remade.

And I don't think the middle of a dungeon is a good place to do anything like this.

This is something I can agree with.

The power gamer comment was not meant as an insult. I am one too.

I do disagree what as long as she isn't good for anything she has to be a healer. Even though I am a powergamer, I don't believe somebody should be punished for having less than perfect system mastery. I will never dictate to somebody in my party how they have to build their character and play it. I will however accept that I am better at building and do what I can to make up for any gaps they may cause.

As for when is a good time for her to switch to something other than a pure curebot, I think that is up to the story. The dm could easily whip up some divine mumbo jumbo that awakened something in her causing her class or build to change.


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From what I get here it seems that party division goes a bit like this :

- ok.. so we got some treasure to divide, who wants boots of speed ?

summoner : no I am good I can cast haste and won't be in combat anyway.

Oracle : I rather have the sunblade.

- ok, I will take the boots of speed then, next up who wants the headband of mental prowess ?

summoner : no I am good I will have the rod of splendor instead, so I can look pretty and imperious from the back.

oracle : I rather have the sunblade so I can do something else but cast heal spells.

- ok, I will take the headband then, I can get decent use out off it, next up sunblade, seems I would get the best use out off it so it goes to me.


Name Violation wrote:

sadly, I've read most of this thread.

Ninja want sunblade for obvious reasons. (the same reasons every rogue wants one)

Oracle wants sunblade for rp reasons (NOT a bad thing)

BS sees this from a very "practical" sort of view. I'm better with it, I'll use it more, I keep it.

From what we understand BS has the bulk of the magic items (whether they are useful/wanted or not)

IMHO its like a 10-15% damage increase.

Threatening to not heal-petty
threatening to kill them-over the line. D-bag move.

if they wont heal, then dont "tank" for the caster. you should be able to afford plenty of healing supplies at your level. (Also i think you mentioned a level of ranger. you can use wands of cure if you didnt sac casting with a archetype.)

You've missed the part where we can't go to town and the part where if I don't keep going forward with this quest, the Geass will kill me, and I can't go forward, if my healer suddenly folds her arms and refuses to heal me, especially since there are lots of incredibly dangerous monsters here.

I believe it's called 2nd degree murder?

I actually did buy all the healing items I could while I was in town last time, between constantly using them to get the oracle back on her feet, and occasionally downing one because my (or another melee character's) injuries aren't important enough to merit using her magic, I've only got 3 potions of CLW and 3 potions of CMW left. Probably not nearly enough to finish this dungeon, what with a 14th level cleric at the end of it.


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Blue Star wrote:
No, you haven't, because you honestly think I'm the bully here. Come back when you've actually read it.

Yes I have. This is yet more of you ignoring people who do not agree with you.

Her actions are not thoughtless, she no longer feels you deserve her gods healing grace. She is not harming you, she is not hurting you. She is not causing you harm. She has not threaten you with harm of any kind.

She simply stated she would not longer be your band aid and that pissed you off.

Again based only upon your own posts

You
Are
The
Problem


Blue Star wrote:

You've missed the part where we can't go to town and the part where if I don't keep going forward with this quest, the Geass will kill me, and I can't go forward, if my healer suddenly folds her arms and refuses to heal me, especially since there are lots of incredibly dangerous monsters here.

I believe it's called 2nd degree murder?

I actually did buy all the healing items I could while I was in town last time, between constantly using them to get the oracle back on her feet, and occasionally downing one because my (or another melee character's) injuries aren't important enough to merit using her magic, I've only got 3 potions of CLW and 3 potions of CMW left. Probably not nearly enough to finish this dungeon, what with a 14th level cleric at the end of it.

I'd call it blackmail at best, you can save ur life by giving up a sword that is kinda not really yours

Dark Archive

so proceed without heals and die
leave and die
or "pay" the healer with the sword and live...

decisions decisions, decisions

and countering "2nd degree murder" with first degree murder? wow


Remco Sommeling wrote:

From what I get here it seems that party division goes a bit like this :

- ok.. so we got some treasure to divide, who wants boots of speed ?

summoner : no I am good I can cast haste and won't be in combat anyway.

Oracle : I rather have the sunblade.

- ok, I will take the boots of speed then, next up who wants the headband of mental prowess ?

summoner : no I am good I will have the rod of splendor instead, so I can look pretty and imperious from the back.

oracle : I rather have the sunblade so I can do something else but cast heal spells.

- ok, I will take the headband then, I can get decent use out off it, next up sunblade, seems I would get the best use out off it so it goes to me.

We didn't get them in that order, so it didn't exactly go like that.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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I removed a couple posts. Really. Be nice.

Also, there have been a lot of replies to this thread. Please consider if your post would actually be adding anything to the discussion.


Name Violation wrote:

so proceed without heals and die

leave and die
or "pay" the healer with the sword and live...

decisions decisions, decisions

and countering "2nd degree murder" with first degree murder? wow

I'm an adventurer, I'm also a ninja, murder is my bag, the first master trick isn't Assassinate because I'm expected to be a non-murderous individual. My other option is that I can not pay the Oracle, drag her over to a monster, grab the Summoner, and bolt. That would also be 2nd degree murder.

She, on the other hand, is an Oracle of LIFE, with the implication that she is supposed to support life, not waste it.


In the name of the gods people! Blue Star, it seems that this is more a matter for your DM to resolve.

Liberty's Edge

Blue Star wrote:
Standing by and letting me get killed isn't causing harm? When our characters have been hanging out for a long time and it's expected of her? Especially when you can magically heal someone's wounds up with a touch? I disagree. People have to take responsibilities for their actions, a healer who doesn't heal is useless, and worse they are letting people die because they are throwing a fit.

Throwing a fit and killing her will not help, either.

If you really are at the last hit point use your escape tricks.
She will probably die the same if she is so inept in combat as you affirm, but you will not be the one killing her.

I can see the frustration in your posts, but this discussion is not helping you at this point. Cool down and get your GM help.


KaeYoss wrote:

What can he do? People are being either phenomenally stupid or trolling to the extreme here. The normal, reasonable explanation why giving in to a child holding her breath is being ignored, or people fail to understand one of the most basic concepts of human interaction/child upbringing, so you have to make it more crass.

But, on the other hand, you're probably right: Those who just don't get it simply won't get it, and the trolls just get what they want if you lower yourself to their level.

Interesting I'm sure you're capable of awesome child rearing but since we have 0 proof of that how about you cease "trolling" as it were.

Also this isn't a situation where you have 1 child whining to an adult. Both people are acting like petty spoiled brats and arguing over a toy, the only "adult" in this situation is the DM. Now the reasonable thing for an adult to do is to take away the toy from both of them.


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Name Violation wrote:


Oracle wants sunblade for rp reasons (NOT a bad thing)

Actually, it's much too flimsy to be considered a valid roleplaying reason.

Name Violation wrote:


Threatening to not heal-petty
threatening to kill them-over the line. D-bag move.

Actually, since you brought up roleplaying and lauded it as not a bad thing, his reaction was more in line than the action itself. For an oracle of life worshipping Sarenrae to threaten to stop healing a comrade over a material dispute is close to being a heresy. On the other hand, for an atheist ninja to make a counter-threat ("Do that and I'll just kill you") is definitely spot on. It's basically intimidate. Something I consider very appropriate for ninja.

Name Violation wrote:


if they wont heal, then dont "tank" for the caster. you should be able to afford plenty of healing supplies at your level. (Also i think you mentioned a level of ranger. you can use wands of cure if you didnt sac casting with a archetype.)

The main problem is that this all takes place during a dungeon crawl.

The issue is not that there should be some redistribution of wealth. I don't have all the numbers, so I cannot really comment on it.

The problem is that there is no chance, right now, for them to buy or sell anything.

Here's how I handle things as GM (and the group totally supports it):

When it comes to buying/selling time, when they return to civilisation, the quest fulfilled, the opposition crushed and so on, the treasure list is consulted. That's all the stuff they have found since the lest shopping spree. Prices are tallied, the total treasure for each party member is determined (in gil). Before anything is actually sold, though, people can choose to take stuff for themselves. That reduced the total amount of gold they get by however much they'd get for selling the item.

If more than one person wants something, a solution can usually be found. If a person wants more stuff than he could get with the current treasure, he'll have to pay the group with his personal funds (though there's always ways to hold on to extra stuff in certain circumstances - but that's up to the party members.)

But until they get there, until they can actually sell unwanted items to get funds to buy new ones and all that, i.e. when they're still up to their heads in enemies in some dungeon or green hell or actual Hell, if someone can make use of an item, he'll make use of the item. Even if it's the only treasure they got and it means that right now, he has all their shares of treasure. Can't be helped. In that situation, they probably can't go and shop (even if they already have teleport available, it's unlikely that they have enough castings to teleport out of the dungeon, into a big city to sell and divide up the proceedings, and then teleport in. And there's often a time issue. Unlike Diablo, you often can't clear the dungeon at your own, leisurely pace without being disadvantaged by it or even failing your mission). So yes, one guy might have more treasure than the others right now. It's not as if he intents to keep it. Or, even if he'd like to, he won't get to keep it in the end.

Liberty's Edge

DrDeth wrote:
How about that +3 adamant katana?

Dropped by the replacement character that died a session (maybe 2 now) ago.

A bit different from the weapon he has used from level 8 when the paladin died.

Maybe remembering the sequence of events as it was presented will help you feel that is less grabby grabby than you suppose.


Blue Star wrote:

I never refused, I genuinely don't have the option. What do you want me to do? Pluck their phone numbers out of the ether? I'm afraid I don't have access to the ether either.

I have tried sharing my stuff, the only thing anyone wants is the sun blade, it's the primary weapon I'll be using against all the undead, which there are a lot of, and in all other situations it will be the secondary weapon I use.

You play a game with them. Write down the thread title and the URL and hand it to them.


Diego Rossi wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
How about that +3 adamant katana?

Dropped by the replacement character that died a session (maybe 2 now) ago.

A bit different from the weapon he has used from level 8 when the paladin died.

Maybe remembering the sequence of events as it was presented will help you feel that is less grabby grabby than you suppose.

He died last Friday, I've had the katana long enough to use it against the giant snake construct, and that's it. I was using the katana and the sun blade, because it was colossal, so defense wasn't an option.


Diego Rossi wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
How about that +3 adamant katana?

Dropped by the replacement character that died a session (maybe 2 now) ago.

A bit different from the weapon he has used from level 8 when the paladin died.

Maybe remembering the sequence of events as it was presented will help you feel that is less grabby grabby than you suppose.

Sure. But still as of RIGHT NOW he has: “I've got a +1 adamantine ax (which I don't use anymore), a +3 adamantine katana (which is why I don't use the ax), the Sun Blade, Gauntlets of Rust, the aforementioned headband, an amulet of nat armor +3, and some boots of speed.” (not to mention some mW weapons and such).

She has no magical weapons at all, it appears. He has 3. It appears the +3 adamantine katana is the primary weapon, as it should be. The sunblade is his secondary weapon in his back up fighting style.


DrDeth wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
How about that +3 adamant katana?

Dropped by the replacement character that died a session (maybe 2 now) ago.

A bit different from the weapon he has used from level 8 when the paladin died.

Maybe remembering the sequence of events as it was presented will help you feel that is less grabby grabby than you suppose.

Sure. But still as of RIGHT NOW he has: “I've got a +1 adamantine ax (which I don't use anymore), a +3 adamantine katana (which is why I don't use the ax), the Sun Blade, Gauntlets of Rust, the aforementioned headband, an amulet of nat armor +3, and some boots of speed.” (not to mention some mW weapons and such).

She has no magical weapons at all, it appears. He has 3. It appears the +3 adamantine katana is the primary weapon, as it should be. The sunblade is his secondary weapon in his back up fighting style.

No, the Sun Blade is the secondary weapon to my primary fighting style, which requires 2 weapons. If she would have taken the axe and been happy with that, I'd have handed it over ages ago, and only borrowed it for golems. My primary style until that katana was introduced was sword and board, well that's not cutting it anymore, as everything can hit me very easily, so I'm going more heavily into TWF.

Also, even if I were sword and board still, I wouldn't give her the sun blade until we were out of undead territory. Though I also wouldn't give it to her, because she couldn't wait that long.

Also, I could have used Two-weapon fighting, while being sword and board, I have improved unarmed strike, a boot blade, and a Cestus.

Liberty's Edge

omgabear wrote:

5 mans always have 1 healer, and that is usually when a healer has to crowd control in combat because not all roles are filled.

I see you skipped over the part where I said I don't think the sunblade is for her. She doesn't have to be in melee to do more than heal you. This isn't an all or nothing. It isn't "Do nothing but heal me or do nothing but be a ineffective melee."

There is a compromise to be had in between, and yes that probably involves you ending fights with a few more booboos. So what, she can heal you up after once everything is dead.

And how he impose that? She is an oracle, life mystery.

Apparently she did even lacked cure disease till she had to change a spell after getting mummy rot.

With the right spell selection she can be very useful and capable to buff the party.
With the wrong spell selection ....

If she has locked herself into a corner with the wrong spell selection she will need a lot of levels to change how her character work or the GM permission to respec.


Blue Star wrote:

I'm an adventurer, I'm also a ninja, murder is my bag, the first master trick isn't Assassinate because I'm expected to be a non-murderous individual. My other option is that I can not pay the Oracle, drag her over to a monster, grab the Summoner, and bolt. That would also be 2nd degree murder.

She, on the other hand, is an Oracle of LIFE, with the implication that she is supposed to support life, not waste it.

Well Oracles have no dogma to which they must keep really, alignment ought to say more about that. Though I assume you are both good aligned so ought to respect life.

I dont really get why you invest in 2-weapon fighting really since it doesnt combine well with cranestyle, in which you invested quite a few feats, same for shield really though I can see that paying off against a large number of foes, or in cases where you are not in melee yet.

out off curiosity mostly, is your feat selection like this ? :

crane style, crane wing, dodge, unarmed strike, iron will, twf, weapon finesse, weapon focus, quick draw

For the threads purpose, I do not think much more can be resolved here, try persuade your GM to make a call or find a solution soon.


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My only question is why is this thread still going? There's nothing constructive being said, every argument that can be given has. There's nothing at all more to be said.


Remco Sommeling wrote:
Blue Star wrote:

I'm an adventurer, I'm also a ninja, murder is my bag, the first master trick isn't Assassinate because I'm expected to be a non-murderous individual. My other option is that I can not pay the Oracle, drag her over to a monster, grab the Summoner, and bolt. That would also be 2nd degree murder.

She, on the other hand, is an Oracle of LIFE, with the implication that she is supposed to support life, not waste it.

Well Oracles have no dogma to which they must keep really, alignment ought to say more about that. Though I assume you are both good aligned so ought to respect life.

I dont really get why you invest in 2-weapon fighting really since it doesnt combine well with cranestyle, in which you invested quite a few feats, same for shield really though I can see that paying off against a large number of foes, or in cases where you are not in melee yet.

out off curiosity mostly, is your feat selection like this ? :

crane style, crane wing, dodge, unarmed strike, iron will, twf, weapon finesse, weapon focus, quick draw

For the threads purpose, I do not think much more can be resolved here, try persuade your GM to make a call or find a solution soon.

Improved unarmed strike does wonders, I have to drop whatever is in my off-hand, but I have weapon cords so I can do that without worry.

I have Combat expertise, Iron Will, crane style, dodge, IUS, TWF, and iTWF. I have Forgotten Trick, Shadow Clones, Vanishing Trick, Ghost Step, and Ki Charge. I tend to use Forgotten Trick to use Style Master, to get Crane Wing, when I think avoiding getting punched in the face, by about 2 tons of jerk, needs a bit more than a 31AC.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

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This thread isn't going anywhere and we're tired of dealing with the flags for it, so I'm closing it. Blue Star, if you have a specific answerable question feel free to open a new one, otherwise let's consider this argument done and had.

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