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B)The best possible scenario is that she magically resets her character into a paladin who was carrying the Sun Blade the entire time anyway. Barring that, she would have to spend the next few levels becoming a better combatant, while still being able to keep the party alive (somehow), which I can't think of a class combination that will allow for that.
Why do you think I've been asking how to end the argument, without giving into her?
Is B a feasible scenario? Would the DM approve that?
I've lurked on the forums for a very long time, and only just come to posting in the last day or two. Perhaps this wasn't the best thread to start, as the people I've come to recognise and nasty minded trolls are out in force.
But that is neither here nor there. This thread was about possible solutions to Blue Star's issue. With that in mind....
Blue Star, would the Summoner be willing to change his Eidolon's evolutions so that it could wield the sunblade? e.g a biped with the appopriate weapon proficiency. That way the blade is being used best in your undead infested dungeon AND the ninja and oracle have no reason to fight.
Whilst I'm not completely familiar with all the Summoner class rules, a Summoner does have that option everytime they level, right?
Oh and one more off topic thing. KaeYoss, will you marry me? (c:
@Akshun: those are very good questions, the answer is probably, but he wouldn't as he's built it around reach attacks. I will inquire when I see him Friday.
Oh by Iomedae...
I think you might have to just tell her that your character now worships Iomedae.
you could also tell her that the weapon was forged by a cleric of Torag and thus has no link whatso ever to SArenrae.
but unfortunately this has problems too and is not likely to solve anything..
there is no such thing as death, it is just another step in life...
I did mention that earlier. I've been contemplating it for awhile, but I'm not sure it would solve everything.
@Akshun: those are very good questions, the answer is probably, but he wouldn't as he's built it around reach attacks. I will inquire when I see him Friday.
He could still keep the 'reach attacks' concept intact if he did decide to help you out. He'd just be doing it as a biped instead. He could have his Eidolon look like a fiery avenging angel, which would really look great when wielding a sunblade. (c:
The only other suggestion I have (as have a few others in this thread) is to get your GM involved. He might not like to, but I think it is the cleanest way of putting this to rest. I can't imagine GMing a group where in party fighting has been taking place for so long. Allowing this to go on for so many months is really poor form.
edit: typos
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Blue Star, would the Summoner be willing to change his Eidolon's evolutions so that it could wield the sunblade? e.g a biped with the appopriate weapon proficiency. That way the blade is being used best in your undead infested dungeon AND the ninja and oracle have no reason to fight.
That might, however, mean the oracle and the summoner are now at each other's throats.
I'm generally not too fond of the "you have something, someone else wants it. You can make good use of it, they can't, but they're getting on my nerves with their complaints, and since you're not giving in to the constant whining, I take it away now so nobody can have it.
It's a faulty solution. It can be appropriate if neither has a decent claim on an item, but the way this situation looks, the ninja does have a decent claim: He is a front-liner who can make very good use of the item, while the only claim the oracle has for this 50k gil item is "It ties into my diety's theme". And even that is nor 100% because we're not talking about a cleric, but an oracle of life.
Taking it away from someone who can make good use to someone who is just as well off without it (or even better off without it) Just to stop the complaints gives power to the person complaining.
We're talking about humans here. They're often petulant and vindictive. If they find out they can get their will with whining, even if it doesn't otherwise make sense, they will do so. And if they find out they can at least cause someone else grief, especially if it's someone who annoyed them by not giving in to the whining, they'll do that, too.
So, right now, i.e. in the middle of a death trap dungeon full of undead, the only feasible option is to let the ninja keep the weapon. Then, after they have weathered this dangerous situation, they can go and make other decisions.
Whilst I'm not completely familiar with all the Summoner class rules, a Summoner does have that option everytime they level, right?
I think that while you can change your evolutions whenever you gain a level, the standard rules do not mean for you to change the standard body type after you have chosen it. This is, of course, subject to GM ruling.
Oh and one more off topic thing. KaeYoss, will you marry me? (c:
Uh... that depends. First of all: Are you female? Since I'm not. I'm not trying to bash gays (the gay guys frequenting these boards, for example, are decent guys for the most part), but it's simply not for me.
If you are, we might be able to work something out ;-)
@Akshun: those are very good questions, the answer is probably, but he wouldn't as he's built it around reach attacks. I will inquire when I see him Friday.He could still keep the 'reach attacks' concept intact if he did decide to help you out. He'd just be doing it as a biped instead. He could have his Eidolon look like a fiery avenging angel, which would really look great when wielding a sunblade. (c:
The only other suggestion I have (as have a few others in this thread) is to get your GM involved. He might not like to, but I think it is the cleanest way of putting this to rest. I can't imagine GMing a group where in party fighting has been taking place for so long. Allowing this to go on for so many months is really poor form.
edit: typos
Getting the GM involved is also a possibility, but that would be twice I had been unable to get her to cooperate, and I'd like to be able to do it on my own.
@Akshun: those are very good questions, the answer is probably, but he wouldn't as he's built it around reach attacks. I will inquire when I see him Friday.He could still keep the 'reach attacks' concept intact if he did decide to help you out. He'd just be doing it as a biped instead. He could have his Eidolon look like a fiery avenging angel, which would really look great when wielding a sunblade. (c:
I don't think the serpentine base form precludes arms. So the summoner might not get to change his critter to a biped, but he can totally have a snake with arms. Of course, the extra reach for the bite doesn't apply, but I think you can give the arms reach.
I wanted to bring that up in my previous post, but apparently marriage proposals derail my train of thought.
The only other suggestion I have (as have a few others in this thread) is to get your GM involved. He might not like to, but I think it is the cleanest way of putting this to rest. I can't imagine GMing a group where in party fighting has been taking place for so long. Allowing this to go on for so many months is really poor form.
That's probably the best thing. Before anyone does any excessive character retooling, the GM should make a speech. It's part of the whole GM gig.
edit: typos
Hm... someone who is concerned with correct spelling! This does wonders for your chances of me marrying you (still provided you're female) :)
I cleaned up a bunch of posts. Don't be jerks.
Blue Star, would the Summoner be willing to change his Eidolon's evolutions so that it could wield the sunblade? e.g a biped with the appopriate weapon proficiency. That way the blade is being used best in your undead infested dungeon AND the ninja and oracle have no reason to fight.That might, however, mean the oracle and the summoner are now at each other's throats.
I'm generally not too fond of the "you have something, someone else wants it. You can make good use of it, they can't, but they're getting on my nerves with their complaints, and since you're not giving in to the constant whining, I take it away now so nobody can have it.
It's a faulty solution. It can be appropriate if neither has a decent claim on an item, but the way this situation looks, the ninja does have a decent claim: He is a front-liner who can make very good use of the item, while the only claim the oracle has for this 50k gil item is "It ties into my diety's theme". And even that is nor 100% because we're not talking about a cleric, but an oracle of life.
Taking it away from someone who can make good use to someone who is just as well off without it (or even better off without it) Just to stop the complaints gives power to the person complaining.
We're talking about humans here. They're often petulant and vindictive. If they find out they can get their will with whining, even if it doesn't otherwise make sense, they will do so. And if they find out they can at least cause someone else grief, especially if it's someone who annoyed them by not giving in to the whining, they'll do that, too.
So, right now, i.e. in the middle of a death trap dungeon full of undead, the only feasible option is to let the ninja keep the weapon. Then, after they have weathered this dangerous situation, they can go and make other decisions.
You're quite right, it is a faulty solution. There are times in life that a faulty solution is better than no solution. I did tell Blue Star in a previous post I think he should keep the sword. An oracle with no profiency in the weapon making demands is just silly.
@KaeYoss: Please accept my apologies for the marriage proposal. That was my off centre (and sometimes silly) sense of humour showing through. I am male and already happily attached. Suffice to say that I enjoy your witty writing and level headed approach to advice when you post on the forums.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm generally not too fond of the "you have something, someone else wants it. You can make good use of it, they can't, but they're getting on my nerves with their complaints, and since you're not giving in to the constant whining, I take it away now so nobody can have it.
I am very skeptical that this problem is about a single item. From what I've seen there are some big issues and discontent with the way treasure is getting split in the group and it all bubbled to the surface with this.
Obviously I'm just inferring this, but if you look back at BS's posts it's pretty clear there is a pretty big inequity in the treasure split.
I'm generally not too fond of the "you have something, someone else wants it. You can make good use of it, they can't, but they're getting on my nerves with their complaints, and since you're not giving in to the constant whining, I take it away now so nobody can have it.I am very skeptical that this problem is about a single item. From what I've seen there are some big issues and discontent with the way treasure is getting split in the group and it all bubbled to the surface with this.
Obviously I'm just inferring this, but if you look back at BS's posts it's pretty clear there is a pretty big inequity in the treasure split.
So you think we should give all the weapon sand armor to the Summoner and Oracle to make up for it? That seems a little suicidal, but if that's the way you do it in your groups then by all means do it in your groups, but I'm going to try to avoid it in my group altogether.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So you think we should give all the weapon sand armor to the Summoner and Oracle to make up for it? That seems a little suicidal, but if that's the way you do it in your groups then by all means do it in your groups, but I'm going to try to avoid it in my group altogether.
I honestly can't say what would be fair or reasonable for your group because I see about 1/6th of the picture and only then through a lens with a fair amount of bias.
What I can say is when one person repeatedly winds up with the best stuff other people get unhappy and grumpy and that sounds like exactly what's happened in your group.
So you think we should give all the weapon sand armor to the Summoner and Oracle to make up for it? That seems a little suicidal, but if that's the way you do it in your groups then by all means do it in your groups, but I'm going to try to avoid it in my group altogether.I honestly can't say what would be fair or reasonable for your group because I see about 1/6th of the picture and only then through a lens with a fair amount of bias.
What I can say is when one person repeatedly winds up with the best stuff other people get unhappy and grumpy and that sounds like exactly what's happened in your group.
Oh yes, because I still have the Fire Staff, the Helm of blasting the sorcerer came in with, the rod of splendor, the ring of water breathing, the bracers of armor +3, the +3 O-yorai, the gauntlets of ogre power, the +2 Shock great axe the barbarian came in with, the cloak of resistance +3, and whatever else that we've gotten, that I can't think of right now.
....Oh wait, no I don't have any of that stuff, except the O-yorai, because I'm also carrying the corpse that was wearing it!
Look, the only one saying anything is the Oracle, the game includes 3 other people, neither the summoner, nor the new guy have complained yet, and I don't expect them to. We haven't exactly gotten to pick our items according to WBL, we've got, what we've got, and that's all there is to it.
Dude, you're accusing someone of being insane based on their pretend character asking your pretend character for a pretend weapon to the point where you're raging out about it. You really need to relax and re think your approach to this game. But anyways, on topic:
You and she need to sit down, out of game, and talk this through. This sounds like it is impacting your enjoyment of the game, and it sounds like it is destroying hers as well. If that doesn't work out perhaps you could have the DM retcon it into an undead bane weapon or some such so she no longer wants it and yet it remains effective against undead.
No, I'm accusing her of being insane, because I've listened to her for 10 minutes, that's another matter altogether. Being irrational is not the same as being insane, by any stretch of the imagination.
I did try talking it out, I've tried every bit of my not-inconsiderable conversational skills to avoid it becoming an argument, and yet here we are. He'd have to make it something equally effective against the undead if he were to retcon it, as it stands he will probably just tell her to stop asking for it, she isn't going to get it.
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The DM needs to step in and end the problem. Remove the item from the game. It seems to be interfering with the fun aspect of gaming. No roleplaying aspect. no story aspect. just remove the item.
There are obviously two extremely stubborn roleplayers who let "staying in character" get in the way of the common good of the gaming group. Its not so hard to understand that, at the end of the day, this is a game. Your character is print on a piece of paper. If issues between characters turn into issues with players, take a step back and evaluate how much this really effects your life.
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Oh yes, because I still have the Fire Staff, the Helm of blasting the sorcerer came in with, the rod of splendor, the ring of water breathing, the bracers of armor +3, the +3 O-yorai, the gauntlets of ogre power, the +2 Shock great axe the barbarian came in with, the cloak of resistance +3, and whatever else that we've gotten, that I can't think of right now.
....Oh wait, no I don't have any of that stuff, except the O-yorai, because I'm also carrying the corpse that was wearing it!
Look, the only one saying anything is the Oracle, the game includes 3 other people, neither the summoner, nor the new guy have complained yet, and I don't expect them to. We haven't exactly gotten to pick our items according to WBL, we've got, what we've got, and that's all there is to it.
I'm curious now. What items does the oracle have? Does she have any really good items? The information you gave previously led to the conclusion that you had all the good stuff. Does she have any good stuff? Stuff that wasn't a hand me down from your character?
Because if she does it really changes the dynamic. Now she is the greedy one.
If she doesn't have an item on par with what the other characters have then I can understand her frustration. Still I think that is something for the DM. He can give her one good item if the oracle does not have one. Sun Sword of Healing for the win!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So you think we should give all the weapon sand armor to the Summoner and Oracle to make up for it? That seems a little suicidal, but if that's the way you do it in your groups then by all means do it in your groups, but I'm going to try to avoid it in my group altogether.I honestly can't say what would be fair or reasonable for your group because I see about 1/6th of the picture and only then through a lens with a fair amount of bias.
What I can say is when one person repeatedly winds up with the best stuff other people get unhappy and grumpy and that sounds like exactly what's happened in your group.
Oh yes, because I still have the Fire Staff, the Helm of blasting the sorcerer came in with, the rod of splendor, the ring of water breathing, the bracers of armor +3, the +3 O-yorai, the gauntlets of ogre power, the +2 Shock great axe the barbarian came in with, the cloak of resistance +3, and whatever else that we've gotten, that I can't think of right now.
....Oh wait, no I don't have any of that stuff, except the O-yorai, because I'm also carrying the corpse that was wearing it!
I'm not sure what all the above means or if there is some sarcasm or what. I guess I had to be there to get it.
Look, the only one saying anything is the Oracle, the game includes 3 other people, neither the summoner, nor the new guy have complained yet, and I don't expect them to. We haven't exactly gotten to pick our items according to WBL, we've got, what we've got, and that's all there is to it.
Then put it up for a group vote. If she's being that irrational maybe seeing that everyone else in the party agrees with you will quiet her down.
I don't recall what all the everyone has, not to mention that it's also kind of up in the air right now, no one was sure who was taking what item after the sorcerer died, I know I'm not getting anything from it, but I'm fine with that.
@Dennis Baker: the point I was making is that my gear isn't the only gear we have by a long shot, I've only kept track of the party treasure, not everyone in the party's gear. I'm sure if I talked to the Summoner's player he would know. Considering I'm well-liked amongst the other players, it's a pretty safe bet that she won't accept their votes.
Considering I'm well-liked amongst the other players, it's a pretty safe bet that she won't accept their votes.
Why not just ask the group, without her present, to ask her to stop or to leave the group. It is clear you and her have some kind of issue that reaches much further than this item (obviously given your repeated description of her being "crazy"/"insane"). You both can't be happy in this group.
Since you are the apple of the eye of the group I suggest you make it clear that she either has to get into her place or she needs to be ditched.
Of course it may be possible that you are not as well liked as you perceive and that the others are just unwilling to clash with you because they find you overbearing, so doing the above may blow up in your face, but probably that is something you should find out as well so this may be the best way to deal with it.
Frankly, in game solutions to out of game problems rarely ever work well. The party dynamic is obviously off, and that needs to be addressed, sooner better than later.
Apple of they eye, seems like too strong a term, the implications associated with it are also kinda creepy.
I think that asking the group to kick the oracle out would be overbearing, which is why I'm not going to do it, there are only a few people obnoxious enough for me to do that, and despite being nuts, our oracle is not one of them.....yet.
The rest of the group would have already acted if she was, though I can sense the summoner growing tired of her, as I've never seen him have to get up from the table and leave because one of the players was a moron. Which is saying something, he and I have tolerated some incredibly stupid s&*~.
I suppose I could ask them individually what they think. I know the GM won't care.
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Life is too short to game with morons.
If this person is so disruptive that you are serious contemplating killing their character in game, you should really consider having them removed from the group. It may be necessary to take over the GM reins yourself, if the current GM is not able to deal with this conflict, especially if it is at least partial his fault (giving geas or die, not giving opportunity to get individualized gear).
Life is too short to game with morons.
If this person is so disruptive that you are serious contemplating killing their character in game, you should really consider having them removed from the group. It may be necessary to take over the GM reins yourself, if the current GM is not able to deal with this conflict, especially if it is at least partial his fault (giving geas or die, not giving opportunity to get individualized gear).
I wasn't contemplating killing her character until she threatened to (indirectly) kill mine.
You do have a point about the GM though.
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Yes, it's an old fight, been going on for months now, I intend to never play in another game with her, because it's just not worth it. However, I want a temporary solution for it at very least, something to get me through to the end of the campaign....okay. :)
You seem very logically oriented, and that is not a bad thing. I think what you may be running into is that some players are less of that mindset than you are. That is, they may be logical, but not /as/ focused in that direction.
Likewise, your interests and style will be different to them.
And it sounds like this conflict has been going on a while. That is, it isn't the first time it's flared up.
I don't think it will resolve anytime soon.
I realize that's not what you wanted to hear--I'm simply saying that some outlooks are just going to be different.
If what you want is a temporary solution, make a deal:
"After you have taken the weapon proficiency to use the sun blade I will give it to you, in the meantime I will use it as you would be suffering from a -4 to hit."As you have just reached level 12 she will need to reach level 13 to get a new feat. That is a reasonably long time to get a decent weapon for your secondary hand.
To sweeten the deal on your side, you can ask her to learn Greater magic weapon and regularly cast it on your secondary weapon if its enhancement bonus is low.
That way you can have a +4 light mace for 13 hours every day as your secondary weapon. it would not have the extra damage of the sun blade but it will not suffer from the damage reduction of several skeletal undead.
- * - * -
Wait a moment, something has clicked in my brain and it can make you both happier if it can work:
One of your party problems seem to be that you are hurt a lot because you can't use medium or heavy armour (you are in a desert) and you haven't a chance to trade the stuff you have for more appropriate items.
Look Magical Vestment:
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).
An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.
Unless all of you have a +4 armor almost all of the party can benefit from this spell (stretching it even the eidolon, if you can rig some kind of clothing for him).
While doing this will not resolve your sun blade problem, it will ameliorate your group death rate problem and allow you to better use what you have got.
Combined with the above suggestion about the oracle getting the feat to use the blade and enchanting you a better secondary weapon it will increase your group combat efficiency noticeably.
If what you want is a temporary solution, make a deal:
"After you have taken the weapon proficiency to use the sun blade I will give it to you, in the meantime I will use it as you would be suffering from a -4 to hit."As you have just reached level 12 she will need to reach level 13 to get a new feat. That is a reasonably long time to get a decent weapon for your secondary hand.
To sweeten the deal on your side, you can ask her to learn Greater magic weapon and regularly cast it on your secondary weapon if its enhancement bonus is low.
That way you can have a +4 light mace for 13 hours every day as your secondary weapon. it would not have the extra damage of the sun blade but it will not suffer from the damage reduction of several skeletal undead.
She claimed she wasn't paying attention when we hit 11th, which was the session before this, so she has a feat just lying around currently, (we only leveled this last time, because we fought 3 suped-up mummies, a few of the huge-category scorpions we have been running into, a few regular mummies, and a colossal construct snake) so it's possible, but I think she was sitting on an excuse to fuel her argument.
My secondary weapon is a masterwork wakizashi, if I'm not using the Sun Blade, which is why I'm fighting so hard to keep the Sun Blade.
If she has the possibility to retool her spell list/ feats a little she could make a viable combatant perhaps if that is what she wants, if she has magic vestment and GMW among her spells she can supply you with a pretty decent secondary weapon still.
You might have a good point, but perhaps in the interest of the game you can have a fair conversation with her and the GM to see what is possible to change her character to be better equiped for combat, I think you both could benefit from a more flexible approach to gaming and RP. RP to sabotage other characters fun is basically bad RP in my opinion, no matter how nicely you say it. Maybe she is just bored with her healing role and wants to have a go at being a better combatant.
I dont think there is a chance to talk to the GM and the oracle as well on this forum ?
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@Blue Star
Read what I added to my post above.
Maybe it is not the most efficient solution for you, but if she agree in regularly enhancing your washisaki (or a light mace) to a +4 weapon with Greater magic weapon and she get into the habit of casting Magical vestment on all the party members your party efficiency will increase enough to more than compensate the loss in DPS.
If all of you get to take less damage and dish out almost as much (an the replacement of the barbarian character get to live though a few sessions) I think even your inter personal tensions will be reduced.
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@Casmat:We will usually nearly die even with her healing, I don't care to try it without her healing. So, yes, she kind of needs to be healing in combat, if she doesn't want a TPK.Casmat's argument here is that if you help her to become better in combat then you might not need as much healing. Having 4 characters contributing meaningfully to taking out opponents will do the job quicker than 3.
My impression is that the 4th guy new characters (the ones that have a tendency to die) suffer from this situation too.
To control the party loot the GM put them in game with only 2 magic items. As they seem to be melee warriors they almost certainly go for weapon and armor, leaving big holes in their defence and attack. But the previous character has left weapon and armor and little of use to plug those holes.So the oracle has to heal them constantly (and feel to be a heal bot and not a integral part of the group), the new guy die the same and teh group get more semi useless equipment that they can't trade for more useful stuff.
Maybe when the 4th guy get to make his new character they should take the time to think about someone that can better integrate into the group and can efficiently borrow the leftover equipment from the dead.
Making the group more efficient will ease some of the tension even if it don't address the blade problem.
Analysing what the oracle can do to increase party efficiency beside using healing spells and powers can be another way to make everyone happier.
Even seemingly minor things like casting some different spells from "cure, cure, cure, heal, cure" can make her play better and more satisfactory, making her a better person at the table.
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You say it is in the best hands already. Ok, let me ask you this, and answer honestly. How often is your character, in the middle of a fight, going to use the ability:
The blade also has a special sunlight power. Once per day, the wielder can swing the blade vigorously above his head while speaking a command word. The sun blade then sheds a bright yellow radiance that acts like bright light and affects creatures susceptible to light as if it were natural sunlight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-foot radius around the sword wielder and extends outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, to create a globe of light with a 60-foot radius. When the wielder stops swinging, the radiance fades to a dim glow that persists for another minute before disappearing entirely.If your honest answer is "never", maybe it's not.
Teh blade as a "few other fetures:
his sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword. Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.
In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).
The blade also has a special sunlight power. Once per day, the wielder can swing the blade vigorously above his head while speaking a command word. The sun blade then sheds a bright yellow radiance that acts like bright light and affects creatures susceptible to light as if it were natural sunlight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-foot radius around the sword wielder and extends outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, to create a globe of light with a 60-foot radius. When the wielder stops swinging, the radiance fades to a dim glow that persists for another minute before disappearing entirely. All sun blades are of good alignment, and any evil creature attempting to wield one gains one negative level. The negative level remains as long as the sword is in hand and disappears when the sword is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the sword is wielded.
So how often will the Oracle of life that has channels as one of his abilities swing the sword to hit a creature susceptible to its extra damage instead of channelling?
Note that the sunlight power is way weaker tahn previous editions. In practical terms he damage vampires, and affect ghosts, spectres and a few more undead making them powerless.
A mummy will laugh at the sunlight power while it tear you to pieces.
Choosing who should use a weapon on the basis of a once a day and very situational power over the very effective damage that the same weapon do in melee is not a good idea.
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I've read the entire thread, and to me, it comes down to this as my perception
You : I don't want to give up any equipment I have the best use of, even if I only use it 1/3rd or 1/6th of the time, let everyone else suck up my cast offs, and if they can't use them at all, i'll keep my cast offs too. Also, the oracle should be a heal bot and keep to her place as heal bot for my awesomeness so I can keep on using the shinies when I feel like it.
mdt, while I don't feel he is blameless, if you have noticed the magic weapons he use are leftover from deceased characters, and apparently relatively recent (in game term, not actual time) leftover.
He had a +1 katana.
The paladin got the sun blade from the angel at about level 8 (and BTW at the same level he received a +2 mental stat enhancing headband, 50 k vs 16K). 4 session later (9th level?) the paladin died and he "inherited" the sun blade.
So probably he used it from level 9-10 onward till now and it was his biggest weapon and the best secondary hand weapon he will ever get.
A couple of sessions ago another character died and he "inherited" the +3 katana.
Put this way, you will relinquish so easily the weapon? And when?
When your magical weapon is a +1 katana and the +4 weapon will be going to someone that will not use it?
When you "inherited" the +3 katana but you have used the sun blade for 3 levels?
I can perfectly see why he is possessive of the sun blade.
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I don't recall what all the everyone has, not to mention that it's also kind of up in the air right now, no one was sure who was taking what item after the sorcerer died, I know I'm not getting anything from it, but I'm fine with that.
Compare your good items with her good items. If she has items on the same power level as everyone else then she should just shut up. Tell her that.
If she is under geared compared to the other PCs then you and her need to talk to the DM about rectifying the situation. Get her something nice.
If he refuses then the crown of blasting and rod of splendor together might be good. The rod would increase her channels by 2/day and the crown gives her a little boom at least once a day. Both make her more effective against undead and would be more in her idiom than the sword.
If you can get the DM to throw in a Phylactery of Positive Channeling then she could be a fairly effective undead blaster.
Here is where I'm at: The oracle can drink a nice tall glass of Shut the Hell Up.
Here's my problem: Who gets more use out of the sun sword? You or the Oracle? I'm willing to be it's the character built for combat (you). If she doesn't like it, she can leave the party. I get that she wants it for fluff reasons, and that's cool. She can have it after the story's over or whatever, but for right now, let it be used for the benefit of the group, not just a trophy that hangs on her back.
Think of it this way. If your character really liked reading spell books for whatever reason, would you hold onto a captured spell book instead of letting the party wizard take it? Of course not, you'd give it to the wizard because he can actually use it. Or rather: Would you hold onto the spell book knowing that it could potentially be sold for the benefit of the group? Why should the sun sword be any different?
Fluff is a terrible reason to be ineffective. It's a safety blanket to protect against bad ideas. Bottom line: If she can't use it, she doesn't get it.
Now, if you are not planning on USING the sword, then it should go to her.
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That would be my default position on it Ghenn. But it just seems (based upon what Blue has told us) like the oracle has been getting the short end of the magic stick for a while and is fixating on the sun sword. By any stretch the ninja is probably making the best use of the sword and I don't think anyone is arguing that he is not.
The arguments presented mostly revolve around keeping magic item distribution fair and keeping group dynamics on an even keel.
Blue has posted about items he and other players have recieved but not about what the Oracle has. She might have some really cool items and just does not use them effectively which is not Blue's fault. She might have no cool items but everyone else seems to. That is both the DM and the group's fault.
The DM seems rather disengaged and unwilling to resolve the problem in group dynamic. But the DM is often best positioned to resolve things like this. Especially if she is short on items.
If I were DM I would look at her character compared to the others and follow my advice as above. If she still complains then she can have a whole pitcher of Shut the Hell Up.
If nothing changes this will end in Rocks Fall (tm). If the Oracle quits then the group is without a healer and without a 4th player to be a healer. The group then has to discuss who becomes the new healer. Which can cause new friction as the new healer chafes. The oracle might stop healing in the middle of a tough fight. She might stop healing just the ninja. She does not have to announce that...she just needs to use her actions on other characters. Then who wins? I bet she gets the sunsword then.
Blue has a strange insistence on solving this himself. But since he won't give up the sword and the oracle seems unreasonable then I don't see how he can.
@KaeYoss: Please accept my apologies for the marriage proposal. That was my off centre (and sometimes silly) sense of humour showing through.
Don't sweat it. I wasn't exactly considering the whole thing (it's a bit early in our relationship for marriage. I prefer to actually know the people I marry before I marry them. A user name and avatar is a bit below my minimum knowledge requirements ;-))
Suffice to say that I enjoy your witty writing and level headed approach to advice when you post on the forums.
Not half as much as I do! :D
So you think we should give all the weapon sand armor to the Summoner and Oracle to make up for it? That seems a little suicidal, but if that's the way you do it in your groups then by all means do it in your groups, but I'm going to try to avoid it in my group altogether.
Story and good GMing and RPG advice time everyone, put down your books, arrange your chairs in a half circle and listen!
I much prefer equal funding in my games, whether I'm one of the players or the GM. "Fits me better" is not an excuse to get more treasure. If there is more stuff fitting one character than the others, he can have first picks, but the rest is either distributed, or, if nobody wants the extra stuff, it will be sold so all players will get their fair share.
In fact, calculate what everything we found (minus stuff like scrolls, potions and other perishables, in some cases) will net us when we sell it, divide the sum by the number of players, and get what everyone gets from out of this haul.
If you want something from the treasure haul, you'll "buy" it from the group, i.e. your share of the pile of gil will be decreased by what we'd get for selling. If you want more stuff than is your fair share, you'll have to actually get some of your cash to pay off the others, or do without.
It's the fairest system for everyone involved.
HOWEVER, that only applies in the long run. Until we can actually sell the stuff, people can loan things. If one character ends up with all the current treasure as loaners because he can use them better than anyone else or nobody else has any interest in anything (say, we find two legendary super swords and there's only one swordsman, who happens to be a two-weapon fighter), that's okay. It can't really be changed, and forcing him to give one of the swords to the wizard or something is just silly.
@Diego Rossi: A +4 enhancement bonus to our armor is not going to help when the highest AC in the group is 26, and Iron Golems have a +28 hit, and the Mummies are aiming at touch AC.
Eh, the new guy's 1st character was a Cavalier, the 2nd a sorcerer, the last was a samurai. He just got really unlucky, seriously, the sorcerer only had a 3% chance of dying the way it did, and died anyway.
I'm not sure any of that would change her.
My Katana was only masterwork, I wish it had been +1, we ran into a lot of mephits early on.
I'm still a two-weapon fighter, no matter what anyone thinks, I'm still going to use the Sun Blade, I'm not hanging onto it for sentimental value, when I can use TWF, I will swing with a +3 Katana, and a Sun Blade.
The Rod of Splendor is the Summoner's, I'm probably the only character that can get it from the Summoner, but I'm not even going to try, because I think the Summoner deserves it.
@Ghenn:I could claim to be a follower of Sarenrae myself (just a quiet one, because real followers of a faith don't need to constantly spout off about it) and her claim would be null and void. Her primary argument is "I'm a follower of a sun god" well, if I say "I'm also a follower of a sun god." then her argument goes away. Though my character is probably more pantheistic than that.
The Summoner hasn't gotten anything better than the Oracle, at all, in fact the Oracle probably has more than the Summoner, if only I could remember what all it was.
Hey i have an idea
you mentioned shes not proficient, tell her i'll give it to you when your trained in it. Basically take a useless feat or NO SWORD FOR YOU
Hey i have an idea
you mentioned shes not proficient, tell her i'll give it to you when your trained in it. Basically take a useless feat or NO SWORD FOR YOU
Like I said before: she's sitting on a feat, she wants the sword badly enough to take a worthless feat.
After reading the first page alone, the GM inside of me was yelling! As it seems to be a source of conflict within the group, I would, as the GM, remove it, if the players can not come to a decision peacefully.
The scenario they are in is heavily populated with undead. The item in question is really good versus undead. If the group was being appropriately challenged, would you feel comfortable taking away one of their best tools for dealing with the encounters you've designed?
Conversely, if the sword is such an issue and you know the Oracle would be horrible at using it (say, Str 10, no feats), why not just toss in another Sunblade that only activates in the hands of an Oracle who can channel positive energy (ie, the very specific character in the party already). The item won't be useful (the oracle can't hit or do any significant damage), but it makes the player happy.
The scenario they are in is heavily populated with undead. The item in question is really good versus undead. If the group was being appropriately challenged, would you feel comfortable taking away one of their best tools for dealing with the encounters you've designed?
Conversely, if the sword is such an issue and you know the Oracle would be horrible at using it (say, Str 10, no feats), why not just toss in another Sunblade that only activates in the hands of an Oracle who can channel positive energy (ie, the very specific character in the party already). The item won't be useful (the oracle can't hit or do any significant damage), but it makes the player happy.
If all else fails (except murdering her character, that will happen if this fails) I will ask the GM to help resolve the issue, the only way it could be resolved using items is to introduce another Sun Blade, in pretty much the exact manner you suggest, which is probably not something the GM intends to do.
My actual advice for you would be different.
Consider all the facts and decide what is more important to you. Keeping the sword makes your character and the party as a whole more efficient. Giving her the sword resolves a personal problem not just between characters but players at the table.
Which is more important, character stats or the relationships at the table?
It doesn't matter who is right. You have the power and ability to end the conflict.
If you kill her character, you will only increase resentment. You will have escalated the conflict, not solved it. The conflict will no longer be about the sword, but about the soured relationship.
If you give her the sword, you begin repairing the rift between you two. If it isn't solved, you now have the moral high ground and can reasonably ask others to take your side in helping resolve whatever the underlying issue is. If you decide to dig in your heels over character stats, it will only get worse.
Edited to add some stuff and fix a huge "typo".
My actual advice for you would be different.
Consider all the facts and decide what is more important to you. Keeping the sword makes your character and the party as a whole more efficient. Giving her the sword resolves a personal problem not just between characters but players at the table.
Which is more important, character stats or the relationships at the table?
It doesn't matter who is right. You have the power and ability to end the conflict.
If you kill her character, you will only increase resentment. You will have escalated the conflict, not solved it. The conflict will no longer be about the sword, but about the soured relationship.
If you give her the sword, you begin repairing the rift between you two. If it isn't solved, you now have the moral high ground and can reasonably ask others to take your side in helping resolve whatever the underlying issue is. If you decide to dig in your heels over character stats, it will only get worse.
Edited to add some stuff and fix a huge "typo".
You make the mistake of believing we were ever close, which is understandable, most roleplaying games happen between friends. The oracle player is a person who, about two decades ago, frequented the shop, but disappeared (for reasons I'd rather not go into, as it's none of my business really), and only recently came back. The GM seemed friendly toward her, we needed another player, and she volunteered to join up.
I didn't know her that well, my initial impression is that she was unbalanced, but whatever, few people are actually balanced, so I didn't say anything.
If I solve the argument by giving her the sword, I set it up for future problems, she's going to demand something, and I will have to give it up, if I want to avoid this. Giving her the sword is the worst possible solution to this situation.
Killing her character will engender resentment, but it will also show that I'm not going to just bow to her every time she fixates on something, to which she can only respond by trying to kill my character, and the only way she is going to do that is to dip into something I'm significantly more experienced at: mechanics.
If I solve the argument by giving her the sword, I set it up for future problems, she's going to demand something, and I will have to give it up, if I want to avoid this. Giving her the sword is the worst possible solution to this situation.
I've found in my life, that being generous and magnanimous creates fewer problems than digging in my heels and being stubborn. I've never lost a friend/job/loved one/gaming group because I was nice to people. I have lost friends/jobs/loved ones/gaming groups because I wasn't nice to people.
If your gaming is more fun with the sword, but also dealing with this situation, by all means, continue. But if gaming would be more fun without this situation, give up the sword. It's much easier to point out how difficult someone is being when you're not the one escalating the conflict. If you escalate though, you are part of the problem too.
I've found in my life, that being generous and magnanimous creates fewer problems than digging in my heels and being stubborn. I've never lost a friend/job/loved one/gaming group because I was nice to people. I have lost friends/jobs/loved ones/gaming groups because I wasn't nice to people.
If your gaming is more fun with the sword, but also dealing with this situation, by all means, continue. But if gaming would be more fun without this situation, give up the sword. It's much easier to point out how difficult someone is being when you're not the one escalating the conflict. If you escalate though, you are part of the problem too.
She has a child's mentality, when she sees something shiny, she declares "mine", and doesn't give up until she possesses it. In a rather odd way, this makes the new guy and the barbarian player (both of whom are teenagers, while the oracle player is in her 40s) more mature. I've tried playing it nice, now is the time for me to be a bit mean.
This has become a bit more than a fun/not fun thing, though that is a part of it as well. This is becoming more like deciding on whether or not to pay of an ever-increasingly greedy mafia, if I don't pay one way, I pay another, but at least with the other way, I get to keep my pride, and unlike most of the people the mafia goes after for protection money, I can protect myself.