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Arguing over a Sun Blade.


Advice

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lobachevskii wrote:

can both be true?

Also I'm fairly confident that at some point earlier, when you were describing how the angel's loot was allocated, you mentioned no-one wanting the headband ... but I can't remember which page that was on.

When I offered them last session no one wanted the headband, the boots, etc. When they first came up the oracle wanted them.


DrDeth wrote:

Oracle is a ¾ BAB, who can be a decent fighter. Also the main ability of the Sword is not melee, perfect for her, and something that you have not used yet. You also have a great primary weapon and a couple of decent secondary weapons.

The idea that “I can’t give into her on this, as she will then demand more” is a perfect example of a slippery slope logical fallacy.

You asked for our opinion, we have given it- give her the sword (sez most of us)

We are level 12, she has no combat feats, spells, class features, or even equipment, and a single sword makes her magically my (a dedicated combatant) equal in combat? Which means she deserves the weapon more than I? Sounds more like you think she is my superior in combat, just because she is asking for a bit of (to her) bling, for roleplaying reasons. Her first combat-related feat will be taking proficiency with this weapon!


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If, heaven help me, I ever DMed a group with you two in it, I would just have the sword explode into gold coins. Everyone would take 20d6 of damage, and hopefully the two characters would die. I would then leave and be forever happy with my life.

And if you lived you could spend the next 20minutes picking the gold coins out of your team-mates, and looting their corpses for more tasty lewtz.

Seriously I would just have the Angel come and take the sword back, saying neither of you are ready to use it.

(This has been amusing but I think it's fairly obvious at this point the problem is with both of you, and you refuse most of our advice, so there we are.)


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Sure the sunsword (only as a weapon) is better for you. But it should go to her as it allows her to have some fun, instead of being just a healbot (which is clearly the role you want to keep him into). AND she will almost certainly use the main ability more than you. AND you have some other decent choices. No doubt you’re better in combat, but you already have a great primary weapon. This is a secondary weapon for you.

She doesn’t have any combat equipment you say? Exactly why she should get the sword.

If we’re going 100% “best use” then you have to give her the headband.

However, it appears the way you want to divide loot is ”whatever I can use I get, the rest of the party can like it or lump it”.

Silver Crusade

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ZeboJQ wrote:
Seriously I would just have the Angel come and take the sword back, saying neither of you are ready to use it.

This. "Thou are not worthy enough of thine blade, deal with it."


DrDeth wrote:

Sure the sunsword (only as a weapon) is better for you. But it should go to her as it allows her to have some fun, instead of being just a healbot (which is clearly the role you want to keep him into). AND she will almost certainly use the main ability more than you. AND you have some other decent choices. No doubt you’re better in combat, but you already have a great primary weapon. This is a secondary weapon for you.

She doesn’t have any combat equipment you say? Exactly why she should get the sword.

If we’re going 100% “best use” then you have to give her the headband.

However, it appears the way you want to divide loot is ”whatever I can use I get, the rest of the party can like it or lump it”.

Like I said earlier: I should not be held responsible for her character creation decisions, I shouldn't be the one who has to pay because she decided to build a dedicated healer. The only reason I don't want her doing anything else, is because she didn't build to be good at anything else. The main ability hasn't come up but once and it was in a tactically unsound situation. So there is no way she would use it more often than I do, because there isn't a point to use it. Yes, it is a secondary weapon, two-weapon fighters use secondary weapons every chance they get.

Hey, Billy, the untrained teenager who has never seen a rifle in real-life before, here's this rifle, now go win a war for us will you? No we don't have any armor, or survival gear, or a compass, or a map, or the time to train you. We have just enough ammo for you to win it though. I offered her the headband last session instead of the sword, she turned it down!

Also, I disagree, all she gets from it is 1 channel energy/day and 1 spell/day, a slightly better will save (which hers is already really good, so it's kinda fruitless to add more to it) and some slightly higher skills. Keep in mind that she doesn't have that many skills to begin with, so it is only a few +1s here and there, whereas my skill list is huge, my will save is kinda lousy (even with Iron Will and the headband, I need every bonus to will and fort I can get) and I get a ki point out of it.


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I think this group needs to disband. There seem to be a lot of issues. I think I've read something similar in Knights of the Dinner Table, though that is supposed to be satire.

If I was the DM of this group, said weapon would implode. Arguing over items is silly. Period. It's supposed to be a game. A time to relax, hang out with friends, and tell stories and roll some dice.

Sometimes it's about being the bigger person. There seems to be a lot of negative pent up energy over something that could have been resolved a while ago. Instead... both parties dig their heels in and fight and won't give in.


auticus wrote:

I think this group needs to disband. There seem to be a lot of issues. I think I've read something similar in Knights of the Dinner Table, though that is supposed to be satire.

If I was the DM of this group, said weapon would implode. Arguing over items is silly. Period. It's supposed to be a game. A time to relax, hang out with friends, and tell stories and roll some dice.

The entire group should break up because 1 player won't leave another player alone?


auticus wrote:
It's supposed to be a game. A time to relax, hang out with friends, and tell stories and roll some dice.

Amen.


Blue Star wrote:
The entire group should break up because 1 player won't leave another player alone?

You're not going to like this answer, and I'm not saying it maliciously or as a troll, but it's more than just one player. It takes two to make this dance work, and you're enabling the issues just as much as the other person.

So yes. The group should disband because there are two players in it at each others' throats and neither will give an inch to the other. Lack of compromise equals stress on the group of people, which makes the situation less fun.

I would consider forming a new group with people of the same-mindset. Less drama. Less stress.

A gaming group is more than just any one individual. It is a collection of people with the same goal in mind. If but one of those people has a differing goal and there are issues, then the entire group is affected negatively and if the problem persists, for the sake of the group as a whole there should be changes in people present.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DrDeth wrote:

Sure the sunsword (only as a weapon) is better for you. But it should go to her as it allows her to have some fun, instead of being just a healbot (which is clearly the role you want to keep him into). AND she will almost certainly use the main ability more than you. AND you have some other decent choices. No doubt you’re better in combat, but you already have a great primary weapon. This is a secondary weapon for you.

She doesn’t have any combat equipment you say? Exactly why she should get the sword.

If we’re going 100% “best use” then you have to give her the headband.

However, it appears the way you want to divide loot is ”whatever I can use I get, the rest of the party can like it or lump it”.

Can you explain to me why you feel that the sunlight power is so wonderful?

It work on:
- vampires (if he they cant flee, even staggered a vampire is faster that 5'/round and that is the speed at which the area of sunlight expand);
- it affect a few incorporeal undead suffering for Sunlight Powerlessness, making them unable to attack and staggered. Great if you meet them. You force them to retreat outside the illuminated area. As they are incorporeal that is as difficult as entering the nearest wall.
- fungus (it kill a few of them).

So it can keep you safe from a few incorporeal undead for 10 rounds, maybe kill a vampire if you can block all the ways to escape and kill fungus.

On the other hand it is a +4 weapon against evil creatures and do x2 damage against undead and outsiders, x3 on a critical and it is as encumbering as a shot sword.

For me the meele use outweigh the sunlight power by a great margin.

@ Blue Star:
remember that even if it is held in your left hand you can always chose to use the sun blade fro your single attack at full bonus if you have only one attack.
There no handiness rule in Pathfinder (or 3.5 for that). You can use whatever hand you want as your primary hand, and you can change your "primary hand" from round to round.
So if the enemy is probably evil, an outsider or a undead you can use the sun blade as your primary weapon and get more damage than with the other weapon.

Osirion

I have not read this whole thing, but this should never have been an issue. You seem to be hogging much of the good gear, you really do not need the weapon. You should have given it to her with the understanding to allow you to use it if you really needed it.

You are as much the root of this as she is, maybe more so. You seem to want her in one and only one role...your band aid.


auticus wrote:

You're not going to like this answer, and I'm not saying it maliciously or as a troll, but it's more than just one player. It takes two to make this dance work, and you're enabling the issues just as much as the other person.

So yes. The group should disband because there are two players in it at each others' throats and neither will give an inch to the other. Lack of compromise equals stress on the group of people, which makes the situation less fun.

I would consider forming a new group with people of the same-mindset. Less drama. Less stress.

A gaming group is more than just any one individual. It is a collection of people with the same goal in mind. If but one of those people has a differing goal and there are issues, then the entire group is affected negatively and if the problem persists, for the sake of the group as a whole there should be changes in people present.

Or we could just kick the one who started this mess out, problem solved, though it brings up another problem: I'm not entirely convinced the group will do that, I'll ask, but as long as I've been hanging out with the summoner, I'm still not entirely sure how he jumps sometimes. The new guy I'm not too sure of either.

Largely this conversation takes place outside of the game, at the end of the night, which is why I bother to respond. Though she asks for it in-game as well, I tell her no, and then she makes a huge fuss over it at the end of the session.

@Seekerofshadowlight:We have actually covered all of that, so I'm not going to reiterate what's already been said.

Osirion

Blue Star wrote:
Or we could just kick the one who started this mess out, problem solved,

The issue with that is many of us feel You are the problem, not her.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Blue Star wrote:


Largely this conversation takes place outside of the game, at the end of the night, which is why I bother to respond. Though she asks for it in-game as well, I tell her no, and then she makes a huge fuss over it at the end of the session..

Not so immature then. Annoying, but at leas she don't interrupt the game.

Edit:
don't edit the post while I am citing it, it screw the citation :D


Diego Rossi wrote:
Not so immature then. Annoying, but at leas she don't interrupt the game.

Not for a lack of trying, I have to carefully ignore her when the game is going.


Blue Star wrote:
Read the entire thread before you say something uninformed please.

Another thing that I have learned from getting old is that with any story or scenario, there are always three sides.

Yours.

Mine.

The actual scenario.

Without both sides of a story, no real judgement can be made on the issue.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Blue Star wrote:
Like I said earlier: I should not be held responsible for her character creation decisions, I shouldn't be the one who has to pay because she decided to build a dedicated healer. The only reason I don't want her doing anything else, is because she didn't build to be good at anything else. The main ability hasn't come up but once and it was in a tactically unsound situation. So there is no way she would use it more often than I do, because there isn't a point to use it. Yes, it is a secondary weapon, two-weapon fighters use secondary weapons every chance they get.

Okay, I get that she made poor choices if she wanted to be anything other than a dedicated healer. But if we assume that she has indeed decided that being the dedicated healer is just no fun any more then exactly what are you suggesting? Apparently your feeling is that if she wants to keep playing this character then you're not going to accept her playing as anything other than a full-time healer. Is this accurate?

How would you feel in the same situation? If you've made a character that you enjoy as a character, but the mechanics are becoming a bit dull. Wouldn't you want the rest of the party and the GM to help you tweak the character into something that you might actually enjoy? If you're not having any fun and the rest of the party aren't interested in helping you into another role then what would you do?

If she dislikes playing the dedicated healer role enough then the logical conclusion would seem to be that she either leaves the game or switches to another character that can't heal. Would either of those situations actually make things better for you?

Osirion

Blue Star wrote:
Read the entire thread before you say something uninformed please.

I have read much of it, I stand by what I said. You seem to be the issue.You are wanting something you really do not need and seem upset because someone else called you on it. You seem to think she is good for only healing you. I got as far as seeing you say you planned to kill her PC to keep the sword you really do not need.

You seem to be the issue.


Diego Rossi wrote:

Can you explain to me why you feel that the sunlight power is so wonderful?

Ok, you make a point. But he still has a fantastic main melee weapons, it’s not like giving this up means he has to rely on dull rocks. Clearly she has seen that being just a healbot is boring (even if useful) and she wants to kick some undead rear. Also, since she took on the un-fun role of healbot she should be given a break.

I think the Op started this as much as she did. She has seen that the WBL in this party is greatly disparate, she’s not getting a fair share. She has also likely seen that being a straight healbot is boring. And clearly she has seen that the OP is a grabby guy who will justify anything to his own benefit. Sure if you have one great melee weapon, it goes to the best warrior. When the party gets another- it goes to the next in line, not back to the #1 again.

And, the headband is far and way more useful to a full caster. Not only is there 1 channel energy/day and 1 spell/day, a slightly better will save but her spells have a better DC, etc. Her getting the headband benefits the entire party.

And Blue? If you game with her, you can tell her about this thread and invite her side.


Berik wrote:

Okay, I get that she made poor choices if she wanted to be anything other than a dedicated healer. But if we assume that she has indeed decided that being the dedicated healer is just no fun any more then exactly what are you suggesting? Apparently your feeling is that if she wants to keep playing this character then you're not going to accept her playing as anything other than a full-time healer. Is this accurate?

How would you feel in the same situation? If you've made a character that you enjoy as a character, but the mechanics are becoming a bit dull. Wouldn't you want the rest of the party and the GM to help you tweak the character into something that you might actually enjoy? If you're not having any fun and the rest of the party aren't interested in helping you into another role then what would you do?

If she dislikes playing the dedicated healer role enough then the logical conclusion would seem to be that she either leaves the game or switches to another character that can't heal. Would either of those situations actually make things better for you?

I'm suggesting that if she's truly bored of it, she should ask the GM to play a different character. She made her character, she gets to use it, just like I made my character, and the summoner made his.

I would have never gotten into that situation, but I wouldn't complain, because I did it to myself. I don't hold others responsible for my actions, my reactions are different, but I still expect to be held accountable if my reaction is bad. Now, if I were stuck with her character, I'd ask the GM to let me make some changes, and I'd build something more interesting.

Yes/no, yes in that it would theoretically get her to stop bugging me, no in that it might not, and no in that it would also leave us without a healer. Unless she built something that could heal and do damage.


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Blue Star has received answers. He doesn't like the answers. He is going to ignore the advice.

It is time for a sysop to lock the thread please.


Kryzbyn wrote:


The RP reason here would hold alot more water if the weapon were a scimitar, instead of the herp derp that it has the word "sun" in it.

New idea!

Ret-con the item. No change of abilities. It's just no longer called a "sun blade". It's the "Urgathoa Basher" now. Or the sword of glory/justice, a weapon holy to Iomedae.


KaeYoss wrote:

New idea!

Ret-con the item. No change of abilities. It's just no longer called a "sun blade". It's the "Urgathoa Basher" now. Or the sword of glory/justice, a weapon holy to Iomedae.

Ret-con it to the Singing Sword from Roger Rabbit. It sings but does no damage. If it sings a hymn then undead have to make a whatever save or flee for 1 rd +1 for every 5 they fail the save by

I kind of like that, I just might have to have that drop sometime :)


Blue Star wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

1) Not negotiating with terrorists has worked out great for the US hasn't it? It's not like we're engaged in multiple horribly expensive wars as result of our policies regarding "terrorist groups". No siree bob.

2) Haunted does nothing of the sort stop lying and read the rules.


DrDeth wrote:


And Blue? If you game with her, you can tell her about this thread and invite her side.

I would rather hear from the dm, or another impartial player. With how she has been presented in this thread, I can't imagine her being happy. I'd like the facts not tainted by potential bias.


DrDeth wrote:

Ok, you make a point. But he still has a fantastic main melee weapons, it’s not like giving this up means he has to rely on dull rocks. Clearly she has seen that being just a healbot is boring (even if useful) and she wants to kick some undead rear. Also, since she took on the un-fun role of healbot she should be given a break.

I think the Op started this as much as she did. She has seen that the WBL in this party is greatly disparate, she’s not getting a fair share. She has also likely seen that being a straight healbot is boring. And clearly she has seen that the OP is a grabby guy who will justify anything to his own benefit. Sure if you have one great melee weapon, it goes to the best warrior. When the party gets another- it goes to the next in line, not back to the #1 again.

And, the headband is far and way more useful to a full caster. Not only is there 1 channel energy/day and 1 spell/day, a slightly better will save but her spells have a better DC, etc. Her getting the headband benefits the entire party.

And Blue? If you game with her, you can tell her about this thread and invite her side.

At level 12 a masterwork wakizasi is only a slight improvement over a dull rock, at least the rock can be thrown. Or she could have built something with more ability than "heal everyone" from the ground up. We've only had 9 levels for her to realize being a healer is boring and she's played WoW before, she knows what staring at health bars looks like.

She has the same gear (price-wise) as the Summoner does and nothing I can do would change the fact that there is going to be a disparity, money-wise, in the group, giving her the sword (because it's so expensive) puts her where I am. This is literally no different than giving the sword to the summoner.

If she would have taken the headband instead, I wouldn't have brought this up. Even though it's better for me. DCs? She doesn't cast anything that has a DC, not on any bad guys anyway. You basically want me to give her all of my stuff? Because that's what I'm understanding.


gnomersy wrote:

1) Not negotiating with terrorists has worked out great for the US hasn't it? It's not like we're engaged in multiple horribly expensive wars as result of our policies regarding "terrorist groups". No siree bob.

2) Haunted does nothing of the sort stop lying and read the rules.

1)That's not the point I was making.

2)Sure it does, just this last session, we were standing over a bottomless pit, if she dropped the sword for some reason, like switching to a ranged weapon (as I've seen her do about once a session) the sword goes 10 feet away from her. Guess how wide the bridge was? 10 feet. She was standing on it. Now what?


LazarX wrote:
That passage is not meant to be a license for players to act like spoiled children.

Please quote where I said it did. Do not put words in my mouth.

LazarX wrote:
The base assumption is that everyone is going act on a given level of gamesmanship, respect, and courtesy to each other. I don't see that occuring here.

Agreed.

LazarX wrote:
If the players can't do that, the solution to the problem is more in a nanny field than a GM's purview.

The language of the Pathfinder Gamemastery Guide is clear. The solution to the problem is GM mediation.


Axl wrote:

Blue Star has received answers. He doesn't like the answers. He is going to ignore the advice.

It is time for a sysop to lock the thread please.

You missed the parts with all the good ideas. That's kind of a shame.

EDIT: I stand corrected, one of the good ideas, is right above this post, I will still try it if the other ideas fail, but it's near the bottom of the list.


Now, I hate digging up a rotten horse here, but...

Any chance you can get your GM to get on here? Because from what I see, this whole situation is partly his fault. I saw a while back that you mentioned that he wants no part of interparty arguments - for someone in his position of power, that is pretty much unacceptable. While individual player responsibility is a key factor, it's largely part of the GM's job to make sure this kind of thing doesn't get out of hand, which at this point, it clearly has.

We can't talk to the oracle, so she's not gonna relent anytime soon. If you won't just give her the blade, then only the GM remains.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
The issue with that is many of us feel You are the problem, not her.

Seeker, while Blue is almost certainly not as blameless as he think, the oracle seem to have chosen the wrong item about which to fix if she is as inept in combat as it seem. The sword it is a great melee weapon in a situation where is needed in the hands of someone that fight.

From the items Blue cited as being in the hands of the party members probably the Oracle isn't so much under the normal WBL for the level. Simply she hasn't a signature item.

I am almost sure that we are all projecting the problem players we have know as the different characters of this tale, so we have the tendency to take sides non only in base to what Blue say but on the basis of what our trouble players have done.

Having had a player that somewhat behaved like the Oracle is supposed to behave I give a sympathetic hear to Blue and am prejudiced against the oracle. You probably had problems with hoarding guys so you start prejudiced against him and sympathetic to the oracle.
Without hearing the oracle and the GM it is hard to judge.

For sure I think the GM should have intervened months ago. He is the guy that can try to smooth things, giving an indication of what should be done with the sword, giving the oracle something that can be a better signature item for her and so on.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Axl wrote:

Blue Star has received answers. He doesn't like the answers. He is going to ignore the advice.

It is time for a sysop to lock the thread please.

Yes. This please. I can't believe a forum of "whine whine whine whine I want it whine whine whine" has gone on this long.

I really hope this whole thread is just a troll, I'd feel better with the OP saying "GOTYA!" than any resolution with a stupid imaginary sword.


Mahorfeus wrote:

Now, I hate digging up a rotten horse here, but...

Any chance you can get your GM to get on here? Because from what I see, this whole situation is partly his fault. I saw a while back that you mentioned that he wants no part of interparty arguments - for someone in his position of power, that is pretty much unacceptable. While individual player responsibility is a key factor, it's largely part of the GM's job to make sure this kind of thing doesn't get out of hand, which at this point, it clearly has.

We can't talk to the oracle, so she's not gonna relent anytime soon. If you won't just give her the blade, then only the GM remains.

This is part of what's frustrating about this, I don't have the GMs number either, so I can't really discuss it throughout the week.


Ok, here is how you can do this Blue, without losing face. Say “Look I still say I get better use out of both the sword and the headband than the oracle can. But we all know that being a dedicated healer is a thankless and unrewarding task. So, I want to both thank and reward you by giving you your choice of either item. Just remember this when dolling out the band-aids, OK?”

OH, and Blue, if not the Oracle player, how about your DM- why not invite him here?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Blue Star wrote:

I'm suggesting that if she's truly bored of it, she should ask the GM to play a different character. She made her character, she gets to use it, just like I made my character, and the summoner made his.

I would have never gotten into that situation, but I wouldn't complain, because I did it to myself. I don't hold others responsible for my actions, my reactions are different, but I still expect to be held accountable if my reaction is bad. Now, if I were stuck with her character, I'd ask the GM to let me make some changes, and I'd build something more interesting.

Yes/no, yes in that it would theoretically get her to stop bugging me, no in that it might not, and no in that it would also leave us without a healer. Unless she built something that could heal and do damage.

It would certainly be my fault if I got into the situation of playing a character that isn't fun. But I'd certainly like to think that the people I'm gaming with would also be concerned that I'm not having fun and be keen to talk through what they could do to make the game more enjoyable for everybody. Apparently you're playing in a group that doesn't have that kind of dynamic though, so okay... Would the GM let her make those changes to make the character more interesting though? And if those changes made her more combat focused would you consider letting her use the sword?

And if she does make a new character then it wouldn't really be fair to get annoyed if she makes something without healing ability. I don't think being the healer at the start of a campaign should mean that every character you play is forced into that role. Maybe the GM would allow one of you to rebuild for Use Magic Device so you could use wands at least.


DrDeth wrote:

Ok, here is how you can do this Blue, without losing face. Say “Look I still say I get better use out of both the sword and the headband than the oracle can. But we all know that being a dedicated healer is a thankless and unrewarding task. So, I want to both thank and reward you by giving you your choice of either item. Just remember this when dolling out the band-aids, OK?”

OH, and Blue, if not the Oracle player, how about your DM- why not invite him here?

We award her, she gets her choice of non-melee loot. Then the summoner gets whatever is left over. I convinced her to take the cloak because it's a better defensive item. We also thank her. I asked her if she wanted the headband, she said no already.

Actually, I think the oracle's item from the pharaoh was a head piece of some kind, may be the same thing I have.

Osirion

Diego Rossi wrote:

Seeker, while Blue is almost certainly not as blameless as he think, the oracle seem to have chosen the wrong item about which to fix if she is as inept in combat as it seem. The sword it is a great melee weapon in a situation where is needed in the hands of someone that fight.

Again he is more to blame to me. He could have easily said "Look I need it right now, but Once we are done here its all yours. I'll even help train you" Blue has even said she has a feat ready, but he also keeps saying he is willing to kill her PC to keep the item and that her class is good for only healing.

It helps him be effective, but only as long as he has a full healer to keep him up. He seems to want her doing that role and only that role. All I have to go on is what he has said, and he has contradicted himself a few times.

He has stated he is keeping the item if he must kill the healer to do so. That to me is the issue, not the other player wanting an item.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Blue Star wrote:
This is part of what's frustrating about this, I don't have the GMs number either, so I can't really discuss it throughout the week.

A suggestion: this thread is going downhill and the offered solutions are only repeat of previous suggestions.

Let it rest till Friday (or whenever you play).
After the next session ask the GM to come here and give the thread a look. Maybe even give us his point of view of the situation.
That could help more than repeating the same stuff again and again. Doing that will only get you more frustrated.


Berik wrote:

It would certainly be my fault if I got into the situation of playing a character that isn't fun. But I'd certainly like to think that the people I'm gaming with would also be concerned that I'm not having fun and be keen to talk through what they could do to make the game more enjoyable for everybody. Apparently you're playing in a group that doesn't have that kind of dynamic though, so okay... Would the GM let her make those changes to make the character more interesting though? And if those changes made her more combat focused would you consider letting her use the sword?

And if she does make a new character then it wouldn't really be fair to get annoyed if she makes something without healing ability. I don't think being the healer at the start of a campaign should mean that every character you play is forced into that role. Maybe the GM would allow one of you to rebuild for Use Magic Device so you could use wands at least.

That's largely between her and the GM, I shouldn't even have a say in that. I have no idea, probably not, he's been pretty strict about what we can and can't do. Like I can't vanish, walk next to a target, wait for my round to come again, take a full-attack action, and then vanish again. Also, she can hypothetically deal way more damage to undead than I can in any given round, using channel energy, it's just that mine is largely against any targets in my melee range.

I'm not sure if I'd give her the sword, I'd have to think about it some, I suppose it really comes down to how effective she comes out.

I've actually been trying to convince the guy who keeps dying to play a ranged combat/healer type, like an archer paladin. I have use magic device nearly maxed out(I've got a +20 in it), we haven't found, or had access to, a wand yet.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Ayrphish wrote:

Yes. This please. I can't believe a forum of "whine whine whine whine I want it whine whine whine" has gone on this long.

I really hope this whole thread is just a troll, I'd feel better with the OP saying "GOTYA!" than any resolution with a stupid imaginary sword.

In the summary view that shows all the threads if you look next to the thread name there is a little circle with a slash through it " ". Click on that. It's like having your own little thread locking mechanism.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Again he is more to blame to me. He could have easily said "Look I need it right now, but Once we are done here its all yours. I'll even help train you" Blue has even said she has a feat ready, but he also keeps saying he is willing to kill her PC to keep the item and that her class is good for only healing.

It helps him be effective, but only as long as he has a full healer to keep him up. He seems to want her doing that role and only that role. All I have to go on is what he has said, and he has contradicted himself a few times.

He has stated he is keeping the item if he must kill the healer to do so. That to me is the issue, not the other player wanting an item.

First, that offer was made. The oracle want it now, better the last month.

That is on page 2 or 3, I think.

Second, "that feat I hadn't taken at level 11 now that I am level 12 will be so handy to learn to use the sword."
I don't have a kind opinion of players that "forget" to take a feat and then "discover" they have a free feat when it is convenient.
Maybe it is true, maybe the "discover" was an eraser.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Again he is more to blame to me. He could have easily said "Look I need it right now, but Once we are done here its all yours. I'll even help train you" Blue has even said she has a feat ready, but he also keeps saying he is willing to kill her PC to keep the item and that her class is good for only healing.

It helps him be effective, but only as long as he has a full healer to keep him up. He seems to want her doing that role and only that role. All I have to go on is what he has said, and he has contradicted himself a few times.

He has stated he is keeping the item if he must kill the healer to do so. That to me is the issue, not the other player wanting an item.

See, you haven't read the entire thread. I did say that to her, it has not stopped her, she wants it -RIGHT NOW- in no uncertain terms. Which is why I have decided I'm never going to give it to her. No, she said she would stop healing me, I said I'd kill her if she did, I view myself as being culpable, if I just drag her over to a monster, plop her butt down right in front of it, and run away. Kind of like she is doing to me if she stops healing me.

I can be effective even without a full healer, it's just incredibly dangerous, and despite being a full healer, she's only competent at it. I don't care who heals, just that healing is being done.

She threatened to kill me first, by not healing me, I countered with "not if I kill you when that becomes a problem".


Diego Rossi wrote:

First, that offer was made. The oracle want it now, better the last month.

That is on page 2 or 3, I think.

Second, "that feat I hadn't taken at level 11 now that I am level 12 will be so handy to learn to use the sword."

Umm the Op did the exact thing. In another thread he admits that TWF is “a trap” and that he fought for most of his levels with sword & board. It appears that right after the party got ahold of this sunblade, he decided to go TWF, which is why he’s so unwilling to give it up.

Blue, clearly you don’t reward the oracle as your refusal to address the WBL issue has shown. You seem to have twice the WBL of anyone else.

Osirion

Blue Star wrote:


She threatened to kill me first, by not healing me, I countered with "not if I kill you when that becomes a problem".

No she did not threaten you harm, she said she would not heal you. That is not the same. You said you would murder her if she did not be a good little band aid and do as she was told.

Again I find you a worse player. Whiny is one thing, saying you will kill other party members as they do not do as you say is another.


DrDeth wrote:

Umm the Op did the exact thing. In another thread he admits that TWF is “a trap” and that he fought for most of his levels with sword & board. It appears that right after the party got ahold of this sunblade, he decided to go TWF, which is why he’s so unwilling to give it up.

Blue, clearly you don’t reward the oracle as your refusal to address the WBL issue has shown. You seem to have twice the WBL of anyone else.

I also said how I handled TWF being a "trap" it's been pretty efficient. I haven't really been using TWF even after I got the Sun Blade, I still sword and board, and I only switch to TWF when I have a good opportunity. Typically I'll vanish, wait until one of my allies gets into melee, begin the flank, and use TWF the moment I get the chance.

Though I've been thinking about it and I'll probably switch to TWF all the time, since basically everything we fight can hit us pretty easily. Especially now that I've got a decent main hand weapon.

"You don't award her enough." is what you are saying. I'm saying "I award her as best as I can, given the resources available to me, and giving in to her childishness isn't a reward."

Osirion

Diego Rossi wrote:

First, that offer was made. The oracle want it now, better the last month.

That is on page 2 or 3, I think.

Second, "that feat I hadn't taken at level 11 now that I am level 12 will be so handy to learn to use the sword."
I don't have a kind opinion of players that "forget" to take a feat and then "discover" they have a free feat when it is convenient.
Maybe it is true, maybe the "discover" was an eraser.

Honestly, I or you do not know. He has changed the details more then once in this thread. I do know based only off his posts he is playing an evil pc and seems to be bulling the rest of the group.

And some GM's allow you to keep a feat slot and spend it later. It is not an uncommon rule.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

No she did not threaten you harm, she said she would not heal you. That is not the same. You said you would murder her if she did not be a good little band aid and do as she was told.

Again I find you a worse player. Whiny is one thing, saying you will kill other party members as they do not do as you say is another.

Standing by and letting me get killed isn't causing harm? When our characters have been hanging out for a long time and it's expected of her? Especially when you can magically heal someone's wounds up with a touch? I disagree. People have to take responsibilities for their actions, a healer who doesn't heal is useless, and worse they are letting people die because they are throwing a fit.


"But Uncle, HE STARTED IT!"

"I know sweetie, but sometimes people are gonna do things you don't like and it's up to you to be mature enough to let it go, and fix the problem."

This thread brings that to mind.

You being completely unrelenting and uncompromising is very childish. The same goes for her of course.

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