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The UEFA Euro2012 Discussion Thread


Off-Topic Discussions

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The Draw is over, the Groups are set.
Time to start the discussions about the Euro 2012 in Poland/Ukraine

If you don't like soccer, no problem, please enjoy yourself in all the other Threads but please don't troll us here.

So come in, let's talk soccer and may the best Germany win ;-)


I have three words for you:

Come. On. England!


.
.
.
.
.

    Group A
  • Poland
  • Greece
  • Russia
  • Czechia

    Group B
  • Netherlands
  • Danemark
  • Germany
  • Portugal

    Group c
  • Spain
  • Italy
  • Ireland
  • Croatia

    Group D
  • Ukraine
  • Sweden
  • France
  • England


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I have three words for you:

Come. On. England!

Out in the quarter finals on penalties - probably against Germany or Portugal.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I have three words for you:

Come. On. England!

I got two words in reply: Penalty Shootout ;-)

Edit: Ninja'd by a Longboat


Kajehase wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I have three words for you:

Come. On. England!

Out in the quarter finals on penalties - probably against Germany or Portugal.

I see you estimate a Group-Win by Sweden


Not the worst draw for Sweden, especially if the Frenchies could be kind enough to implode again. Come to think of it, Sweden's best ever Euro saw them in the same group as England and France.


Kajehase wrote:
Not the worst draw for Sweden, especially if the Frenchies could be kind enough to implode again. Come to think of it, Sweden's best ever Euro saw them in the same group as England and France.

By the last things I heard the French might do you that favor

Picking up the coment in FaWtLy: What's the problem with Poltava?

Liberty's Edge

Ok, is this tourney national teams with only people from the nations represented playing on their respective teams, or will the best player on the planet* be playing for someone? Just curious, I only follow our MLS and European pro teams (Barcelona, Arsenal and AC Milan being my favorites, for reference), so I'm not really up on what this tourney entails.

*Lionel Messi, in case you were wondering.


aeglos wrote:
Kajehase wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I have three words for you:

Come. On. England!

Out in the quarter finals on penalties - probably against Germany or Portugal.
I see you estimate a Group-Win by Sweden

To be honest I'm happy if we get out with more than one point - but... we beat England, draw France, and I have no idea how the Ukraine might do.


houstonderek wrote:

Ok, is this tourney national teams with only people from the nations represented playing on their respective teams, or will the best player on the planet* be playing for someone? Just curious, I only follow our MLS and European pro teams (Barcelona, Arsenal and AC Milan being my favorites, for reference), so I'm not really up on what this tourney entails.

*Lionel Messi, in case you were wondering.

It's the tournament for European national teams, so no Messi (though I'd actually rate Xavi as being the best - by about a hair's breadth).

Liberty's Edge

Kajehase wrote:
...though I'd actually rate Xavi as being the best - by about a hair's breadth).

Blasphemy!

Did you see the Real Madrid game earlier this year? Messi was SICK!

;-)


houstonderek wrote:

Ok, is this tourney national teams with only people from the nations represented playing on their respective teams, or will the best player on the planet* be playing for someone? Just curious, I only follow our MLS and European pro teams (Barcelona, Arsenal and AC Milan being my favorites, for reference), so I'm not really up on what this tourney entails.

*Lionel Messi, in case you were wondering.

It's national teams, so Messi will have to watch on TV like us.

There was TV-add for a Euro (2004 maybe) with a very frustrated Ronaldino sitting boed at a beach followed by the UEFA logo :-)

Barcelnoa is my favorite non-german club, I played with out local club against their youth (14 years old, 1989) it was great and everyone was very friendly and we got a big tour through the stadium

EDIT: ninja'd by longbot AGAIN

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, Barcelona is far and away my favorite. I think because I have this image of how cool the city is in my head (never been to Europe, other than a couple of trips to the Philippines and Indonesia, my foreign travel has been limited to the Americas). And all of the Catalan women I've met have been absolutely gorgeous (heck, my main character in my home game has a Catalan name).


houstonderek wrote:

Yeah, Barcelona is far and away my favorite. I think because I have this image of how cool the city is in my head (never been to Europe, other than a couple of trips to the Philippines and Indonesia, my foreign travel has been limited to the Americas). And all of the Catalan women I've met have been absolutely gorgeous (heck, my main character in my home game has a Catalan name).

it is a great city, on of the most beautiful I have ever visited (been there 3 times)

Liberty's Edge

aeglos wrote:
houstonderek wrote:

Yeah, Barcelona is far and away my favorite. I think because I have this image of how cool the city is in my head (never been to Europe, other than a couple of trips to the Philippines and Indonesia, my foreign travel has been limited to the Americas). And all of the Catalan women I've met have been absolutely gorgeous (heck, my main character in my home game has a Catalan name).

it is a great city, on of the most beautiful I have ever visited (been there 3 times)

If I ever get a chance to go, it's tops on my list, along with Parma (for some reason), Prague, Copenhagen (I really liked the Pusher movies and want to check the place out), and Hamburg.

There are a few others I'd like to see, but the above all have family ancestry or pop culture reasons for me wanting to visit.


Kajehase wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I have three words for you:

Come. On. England!

Out in the quarter finals on penalties - probably against Germany or Portugal.

One can never afford to lose hope.


just two weeks left, time to resurface this thread

tonight test game Germany - Switzerland

Dark Archive

Okay -- I'm still really new to football and, as I don't have anyone around me to answer my questions, I'll ask them here...

Is it wrong (common/ uncommon) to hope the players in your Club Team either A: ride the bench for their country or B: hope their country team doesn't advance past the Group Stage?

I don't want MY players getting injured!
I don't want MY players putting "needless" miles on their legs when they SHOULD be resting!

Theo Walcott is still young, struggling from a calf injury and I DON'T want him playing for England.

I'm thrilled Jack Wilshere won't be able to play for England and Bacary Sagna for France cuz of injuries.

I thank god neither Belgium nor Wales are in it cuz Vermaelen and Ramsey NEED rest.

Let Koscielny rest his legs; let Abidal start ahead of him for France.

I don't even want to think about losing Thomas Rosicky -- he's old; let him rest. But he's the best player on the Czech team.

And can you imagine what we'd look like next year if The Robin Van Persie is injured playing for Holland? My brain can't go there! I want RVP, er, "MVP," resting.

Is this normal?

Spoiler:
Remember Brad Friedel?! Dude stopped playing for the US national team 7 years ago and, as a result, is still one of the best Goalies in the EPL. How many hundreds of consecutive EPL games has he played...?!

Spoiler:
Meanwhile,...
Let Rooney get injured when he comes back from his ban.
I hope Ashley Cole breaks his leg in a million places and never plays again.
Can we please just let Modric and Van der Vaart and Lenon suffer long-lasting injuries?

Dark Archive

So, as for who I'm routing for...

Czech & Poland to LOSE Group A Rosicky & Sczesczny

Nederlands & Germany to LOSE Group B van Persie; Mertesacker & Podolski

England & France to LOSE Group D Walcott, Wilshere, Gibbs & Sagna

( and I don't care about Group C )

For me, it's ALL about A R S E N A L

Dark Archive

Kajehase wrote:
if the Frenchies could be kind enough to implode again.

This will NOT happen.

I guarantee it.

In fact, I predict France to go very far.


W E Ray wrote:

Okay -- I'm still really new to football and, as I don't have anyone around me to answer my questions, I'll ask them here...

Is it wrong (common/ uncommon) to hope the players in your Club Team either A: ride the bench for their country or B: hope their country team doesn't advance past the Group Stage?

I don't want MY players getting injured!
I don't want MY players putting "needless" miles on their legs when they SHOULD be resting!

Theo Walcott is still young, struggling from a calf injury and I DON'T want him playing for England.

I'm thrilled Jack Wilshere won't be able to play for England and Bacary Sagna for France cuz of injuries.

I thank god neither Belgium nor Wales are in it cuz Vermaelen and Ramsey NEED rest.

Let Koscielny rest his legs; let Abidal start ahead of him for France.

I don't even want to think about losing Thomas Rosicky -- he's old; let him rest. But he's the best player on the Czech team.

And can you imagine what we'd look like next year if The Robin Van Persie is injured playing for Holland? My brain can't go there! I want RVP, er, "MVP," resting.

Is this normal?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

I geuss your American? than kt would be OK

If you are English and don't support your team, well, then let's hope no other English poster knows where you live ;-)


urgh, Switzerland is ripping us appart in thee test game

Dark Archive

Oh, yeah -- I'm American (thus the reason I have no one around me to teach me more about football).

And I'm really lucky that there isn't an American player nearly good enough to play for us at Arsenal. (Howard is too old to sign now even though he's the 3rd best goalie in the EPL and Dempsey, despite being just.good.enough to play for us is not only pretty old, but just doesn't fit our style of play.)

...

But how do you reconcile, as a German, this potential injury problem and the guarantee of wearing your players down without an off season?

Assuming your team is Borussia Dortmund -- you know that if Mats Hummels gets the call for Germany it can ONLY hurt your Club Team.

And if your team is Bayern, well, do you really want to risk Gomez & Muller & Schwiensteiger & Kroos & Lahm? Do you want Robben to play for Holland and Ribery for France?

Dark Archive

My predictions

(Despite what I'm hoping for) . . . .

Group Stage:

1) Czech Republic
2) Greece

1) Germany
2) Nederlands

1) Spain
2) Croatia

1) France
2) England

Quarter Final Winners:
x- Germany
x- Nederlands
x- Spain
x- France

Champion:
Germany

NOTES:
Group A sucks. It's a shame they can't do a better job of designing a Draw so 4 poor teams aren't loaded in the same group.

Group B is brutal. It's ridiculous that Portugal, the 5th or 6th best team in Europe, can only hope to get 3rd in their Group when you look at the teams in Group A.

Germany will win because of the four super-elite teams, they want it most cuz they just lost to Chelsea.

France has something to prove and will step up after the World Cup debacle.

Spain can't win cuz Villa is still injured.

The best teams in Europe, ranked:
1) Spain
2) Nederlands
3) Germany
4) France
5) Portugal
6) England
7) Italy
8) Belgium
9) Croatia
0) Sweden / Greece

Dark Archive

[Threadjack]

Tonight my US team plays a friendly vs Scotland.

Go USA!

(And there's a few Scottish players I like and am looking forward to seeing: Charlie Adam, Barry Bannan & Christoph Berra.)

[/Threadjack]

Dark Archive

Kajehase wrote:
I'd actually rate Xavi as being the best - by about a hair's breadth.

I've never actually seen anyone say this.

And besides, they're two different positions, so...

Anyway, and I don't know how grossly wrong I can be but -- Xavi is not the first MF I would choose if I could only have four.

Strikers:
1) Messi
2) Christiano Ronaldo
3) Carlos Tevez
4) Robin van Persie
5) Ibrahimovich

Mid Fielders:
1) Mesut Ozil
2) Arjen Robben
3) Xavi Hernandez
4) Cesc Fabregas
5) Xabi Alonso


W E Ray wrote:

Oh, yeah -- I'm American (thus the reason I have no one around me to teach me more about football).

And I'm really lucky that there isn't an American player nearly good enough to play for us at Arsenal. (Howard is too old to sign now even though he's the 3rd best goalie in the EPL and Dempsey, despite being just.good.enough to play for us is not only pretty old, but just doesn't fit our style of play.)

...

But how do you reconcile, as a German, this potential injury problem and the guarantee of wearing your players down without an off season?

Assuming your team is Borussia Dortmund -- you know that if Mats Hummels gets the call for Germany it can ONLY hurt your Club Team.

And if your team is Bayern, well, do you really want to risk Gomez & Muller & Schwiensteiger & Kroos & Lahm? Do you want Robben to play for Holland and Ribery for France?

my team is Bayern.

but the nation tournaments (world cup and euro) are very very important. it is a special time every two yeras, everyone is on the same side not for different teams like in the seaon, you watch with friends, do barbeque, every confersarion is about soccer, my mum calls me to talk about it, we put our flags out (something we germans NEVER do normaly)
for all that I take injury risk, heck I would take every Bayern player injured the whole next year for the euro title


W E Ray wrote:

[Threadjack]

Tonight my US team plays a friendly vs Scotland.

Go USA!

(And there's a few Scottish players I like and am looking forward to seeing: Charlie Adam, Barry Bannan & Christoph Berra.)

[/Threadjack]

a lot f friendlys, or more test a games, tonight.

Brasil has beaten Denmark earlier,
and Switzerland leads 4-2 againat Germay :-(


switzerland 5 germany 3

Dark Archive

aeglos wrote:
I would take every Bayern player injured the whole next year for the euro title

Ah, I think I see the difference between me and many European (or other) fans.

My Club team is elite. We're always in the Champion's League past the group stage. Always. So that's what I care about.

My National team isn't really a team at all. We're not any good. We'll never be any good. So even though I'm routing for them and want them to do well and get better -- I'm neither expecting victory nor disappointed after defeat.

It's all about expectations.

Were I German or Dutch or English, I would likely be equally as enthused and expectant of my National Team as I am with my Club Team -- maybe moreso since I don't see my National Team as often and depending on if my Club Team is any good.

Now it all makes sense.
Thanks, Aeglos!

(But despite my new understanding, I still DON'T want MY players playing this summer!)


aeglos wrote:
switzerland 5 germany 3

...are you sure you weren't fielding a bunch of disguised Austrians?

Dark Archive

YAY!

USA whooped up on Scotland 5-1 -- and the goal we allowed was an own goal from our 58th "best" CB who will never actually play in a real game (at least, unless he develops and gets much better).


Quote:

When Sorrow Sang

written by Erik Niva for Aftonbladet.se 28/5-2012

And what the hell have I been doing lately, then? Well, I've not written very much on the blog, and nor have I been at the national team camp on Gotland, either.

Mourned and cursed over Tottenham Hotspur FC?

Yes.

Between the scoldings I've also travelled around Europe, and without anticipating events I guess I can reveal I've been gathering material for a series of articles to be published during the European Championships.

It's getting to be time for it now.

Games are to be played and texts published. History is to be both written and told.

Admittedly I've noticed that I've started to overdose on this kind of writing in the border areas between football, life, and death - I blame the parental role - but when I sink back into the fairy tale about the Danish European Championship summer 1992 I can't help but retelling it.

It was the one that began a sunny day in May, when Henrik Larsen, the 26th-year-old midfielder from Lyngby was leafing through a Danish newspaper, shaking his head. The headline was tough, bordering on distasteful. "One man's death - the other man's bread."

- It would be incredibly sad if Denmark got into the tournament in this way.

But in they got. On 30 May 1992 the UN Security Council took the definitive decision. All sport exchange with Yugoslavia was to cease due to the bloody civil war. The Federation team was stopped from taking part in the European Championship in Sweden.

With less than two weeks to the tournament opening, Denmark was suddenly
qualified for the competition.

They themselves had prefered not to. No matter how cynical the world's become there's no athlete who wants to take advantage of other people killing each other.

And they had their vacations to think of.

Henrik Larse had already booked his. On June 19 he and his girlfriend Lotte would fly to Crete. Instead there was a game against France at Malmö Stadion on June 17. Larsen didn't know what t think. He had been turned down by his Italian club, Pisa, and was seen as an untested reserve who wouldn't play a minute.

Honestly speaking he'd probably rather sit on a bench on a sunny Crete than in a chilly Malmö, but on the other hand he'd still have time to make the vacation when the team got knocked out after the group stages. The unprepared Danes wouldn't have a chance against the more famous and prepared opponents.

Henrik Larsen travelled to Sweden - but kept his vacation tickets.

The day before the game against France the midfielder Kim Vilfort made the opposite trip, from Malmö to Copenhagen. He just didn't have a choice. His only dauther, 7-year-old Line, was suffering from chronic leukemia, and now her condition had gotten suddenly worse.

Vilfort was a father first, and a football-player second. He was just a part-time professional in Brøndby, and both had a degree as a history teacher, as well as a chicken arm to fall back on. Before the tournament he had been leading in a money argument with the Danish FA. Vilfort demanded that part of the net surplus from the tournament should be given to people in need in former Yugoslavia. Humans who need help should get it, Vilfort reasoned.

Now it was his own daughter who needed all the help she could get. She was brought to hospital post haste. The Danish FA released a press statement: Kim Vilfort had left the squad and wouldn't return.

"One man's death - another man's bread," is what it might have read if some really distasteful tabloid had made a headline inspired by the event. With Vilfort gone, a reserve suddenly got a chance. Henrik Larsen.

That far, Denmark hadn't scored a single goal in the tournament, but thanks to a point against England they still had a chance to reach the semifinals. Now it only took nine minutes, and then Henrik Larsen had burst the zero. France may have equalised, but Denmark hit back, managed to hold out, and won 2 to 1.

The next day, Larsen called a travel agency and cancelled his trip to Crete. He had fired away his own vacation.

Meanwhile at the Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen the situation for Line Vilfort had quickly stabilised. Kim's wife Minna persuaded him to go back to Sweden and the football. Despite everything the upcoming semi-final against Holland would be a chance that would never come back.

Kim Vilfort rethought. The day before the match he was back in the Danish headquarter in Stenungsund.

He didn't move the reserve Henrik Larsen out of the team anymore, but his place in the starting eleven was still indisputable. And a good thing that was. Larsen scored two goals, Vilfort assisted one of them.

And still the huge favourite Holland forced through a penalty shoot-out, and by now Denmark's inferiority must have caught up with them? Nope. The left-footed Larsen fired in the first penalty with his right.

Marco van Basten, on the other hand, got nervous and missed. The pressure was enormous, after all - at least for everyone except a man who lived daily under a much heavier pressure. Kim Vilfort placed Denmark's fourth penalty into the net, and another few minutes later the red and whites were through to a completely sensational European Championship final.

The next day he went back to the hospital in Copenhagen.
"- I try to focus on the football, but in the back of my head Line's disease is always there."

The story would get a happy ending, one of those real fairy tale endings. At least that's how it seemed. Denmark beat Germany in the final, and the biggest upset in modern football history was a fact.

The players who really wanted to go on vacation were champions of Europe. Henrik Larsen went from the reserves' bench to being top scorer. And who scored the decisive goal in the final? Kim Vilfort, obviously. Yet again he'd returned the day before the game, and when the Germans were putting on the most pressure he rolled in 2-0 via Bodo Ilgner's left upright.

He cheered. For the football, for life. A few nights earlier he'd been told that finally, after several failed attempts, a person in France had been found who could donate the bone marrow Line needed to get well.

Now he had put an end to the Euros.

It was the most romantic end of one of the most romantic games in history. The days afterwards both Vilfort, Larsen, and the others celebrated at Rådhustorget in Copenhagen.
- Amazing. Amazing. I don't know what's the best; becoming the European Championship top scorer or watching 100 000 waving dannebrogen (the Danish national flag), Henrik Larsen said.
What are you going to do now?
- Take the vacation I didn't get in June. Apparently something came in the way, if I don't misremember.

And here the tale could have ended.

Here the tale should have ended, because then it had been a happy ending.

But it doesn't. We begin with Larsen. After the tournament he was forced back to his Italian club, Pisa, despite them having been relegated to Serie B where the rules didn't permit any foreign players. He ended up in a no-man's-land. At first he tried to get permission to go home to Denmark, but the Italians didn't let him go. Instead he was loaned to Aston Vila, without being successful. Then he was dumped on the backyard of football, in the German Division Two club Mannheim. His career never became the same again.

Sad - but still just football.

Kim Vilfort had more important things to think about. A little more than a month after the final the health of his daughter changed again. Despite heavy chemotherapy the tumour in her belly refused to give in. The bone marrow transplant never had time to happen.

On 1 August 1992, Lene Vilfort couldn't fight any longer. She only became seven years old.

The next Sunday she was quietly buried outside Copenhagen. Schmeichel was there. Kim Christofte was there. Again the winners from New Ullevi stood side by side. Only five weeks had passed since the final of the European Championship.

The tale deserved to end differently.

Ad-hoc translation by me.

The Exchange

W E Ray wrote:
I've never actually seen anyone say this.

Oh, here in Europe, this comes up all the time. Naturally Messi is much more spectacular than Xavi, but on the other hand, Xavi is the heart and soul of Barca. And not to take anything away from the other spanish players but I'd bet a lot of money that , without Xavi, they wouldn't have won a single international title so far.

It's like with our two german players in Madrid. With players like Özil, you win matches, but you need players like Khedira if you actually want to win Championships. (could also have made the same point with Christiano Ronaldo and Xabi Alonso).

Xavi is one of those rare players able to direct the game flow in a way, Messi never could. Xavi is the Quarterback, not Messi, so to say.

Quote:
(But despite my new understanding, I still DON'T want MY players playing this summer!)

Well, to be honest, I don't want your players playing either. Everytime Podolski plays for Germany, we're actually playing with one man less than our opponent. He's totally overrated as you'll probably learn next season. And while I like Mertesacker personally, I think he was injured too long (he was awful against Switzerland).

And as far as van Persie is concerned, I'd rather see him on the bench as well (for obvious reasons ^^).

Sovereign Court

I just came here to cast my unconditional vote for Spain... er, no... England....

S@@#, why does Iceland have to have such a crap team that we can't pass into the finals. I guess I'll be casting my vote to Denmark then. *sigh*


Roac wrote:
S*&*, why does Iceland have to have such a crap team that we can't pass into the finals. I guess I'll be casting my vote to Denmark then. *sigh*

Considering your population is the size of Luxembourg, I'd say you're doing pretty well.

But... Denmark? I'm sure Hjalmar Jonsson would suggest something a tad further north... ;)

Sovereign Court

Well I say Denmark because I live there currently. I used to support England, but really they're beyond hope.


Article about the first black man to play for the Czech Republic.

(I was gonna write "the first African-descended..." but that'd be rather incorrect, seeing as we all are.) :D

Dark Archive

W E Ray wrote:
I've never actually seen anyone say (Xavi is better than Messi).
WormysQueue wrote:
Oh, here in Europe, this comes up all the time. Naturally Messi is much more spectacular than Xavi, but on the other hand, Xavi is the heart and soul of Barca. And not to take anything away from the other spanish players but I'd bet a lot of money that , without Xavi, they wouldn't have won a single international title so far.

Hmmm, interesting.

(It's really unfortunate that I live in a place where there is no one to talk football with -- I have SOOO much to learn still.)

How 'bout this, though:

At Arsenal last year we had Fabregas and Wilshere -- two freakishly awesome midfielders that do essentially what you describe Xavi does, albeit at a slightly lower level. BUT... as RVP was out for the Autumn half of the season, we dominated possession and pass efficiency and created tons of scoring opportunities but our Forwards couldn't score (at least, not at the level one demands from Arsenal).

Therefore.... couldn't one argue that, though you HAVE to have that star controlling MF (or 3 or 4) -- you still can't win (at the Barca & Arsenal levels, at least) without a Messi or RVP.

Yes, neither Messi nor RVP would be nearly as good without say, Fabregas, behind them -- but how much will the teams with only Xavi or Ozil or Fabregas fair without the mega-star strikers?!?

(Of course, can we really know this? The handful of teams in the world that can afford the strikers also have all the midfielders -- I mean, how often do we see a team with Xavi-like midfielders but not RVP-like strikers, and vice/ versa??)

.
.
.

WormysQueue wrote:
Xavi is the Quarterback, not Messi, so to say.

I've been following football for about 3 years now -- mostly in a vacuum cuz no one's really available to answer my questions & point things out most of the time -- but I've learned enough to know that, while a controlling MF is vital to the "layout?" or "operational movement?" of the team on the pitch -- he is NOT like the quarterback in American football. I really struggled with this for a good year or so, considering it as I watched Arsenal and other teams -- but as an American whose Soul belongs to American football, who breathes and lives life for American football -- I just don't think it's a good comparison at all.

How 'bout this, the controlling MF in football is like the Point Guard in basketball. While obviously not a perfect role-analogy, it is reasonably accurate.

.
.
.

WormysQueue wrote:
Everytime Podolski plays for Germany, we're actually playing with one man less than our opponent. He's totally overrated as you'll probably learn next season. And while I like Mertesacker personally, I think he was injured too long (he was awful against Switzerland).

Yikes.

I was really hoping Podolsky would be a great 2nd Forward for us -- well, I still am, obviously.

Mertesacker (before his injury) was a HUGE disappointment.

Maybe Podolski only struggled with Germany cuz most of the other players are so used to playing on the same club team he just didn't have time to fit in??? Hopefully. Maybe.

(And I wonder how long it will take him to get used to Arsenal and the EPL.)


If you're going to be serious about following football, you can start by calling it the Premier League. ;)

Dark Archive

See, that's exactly the kind of stuff I need to be learning!


Also very important (though this doesn't just apply to football, so you may know it already) - if it's an English tabloid claiming it, you may want to take it with a barrel of salt.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

England don't have a chance. This is by far the worst team England have put out since the mid nineties. The focus in Britain at the moment is on the Olympics because there is an unspoken feeling that we are going to get schooled and embarrassed at this championship.

As for Germany winning it because Bayern Munich lost the Champions League? Well there are two types of German fans, Bayern Munich fans and fans who HATE Bayern Munich. That's not picking on Bayern Munich it's just a statement of fact. Bayern's defeat won't be a factor.

The thing is Rey, the US doesn't have a comparable sport to Football where you support both a club side and a national side. Over here in Europe you have two teams, your national side and your club side. No self respecting football fan who grew up with the game puts a club side before the national side. Certainly you wouldn't wish your national side to suffer for the sake of your club side. Trust me, this is a big deal.


Short animated histories of the participating teams. Today: Engerland

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kajehase wrote:
If it's an English tabloid claiming (opinions), you may want to take (them) with a barrel of salt.

Unfortunately I wouldn't recognize it if I saw it. My info comes from the Arsenal website of which I am a member and can see all the games online, and espn.com & si.com -- American sports websites that (mildly) update football stats and such every 58 years or so.

This is very frustrating. (But I'm learning.)


I am an Arensal fan as well from my days of living in London. I don't follow them much any more but certainly I like to pick up and find out about them every now and again.

Dark Archive

FallofCamelot wrote:
There are two types of German fans, Bayern Munich fans and fans who HATE Bayern Munich.

Not sure how the fans' hate or love of a club team affects any of the players for the national team!

If I'm Muller or Schweinsteiger or Gomez or Lahm etc., etc. I WANT THAT EURO TITLE cuz damn it I just came so close to the Champions' League Title and the taste is bitter, bitter!

Again, Germany is my pick among four really close teams cuz I think the Players are hungrier.

FallofCamelot wrote:
The thing is Ray, the US doesn't have a comparable sport to Football where you support both a club side and a national side.

True -- good point.

(I still don't want RVP playing for NED or Rosicky playing for CZE, etc.)

Maybe if Clint Dempsey or Landon Donovan played for Arsenal I'd still want them to play in US competitions. I dunno -- can't really answer something like that without experiencing it.

Spoiler:
BTW, Thanks guys -- this is my favorite Thread in a LONG time -- and a huge help.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

I know your pain Ray. I'm an English Baseball fan and what you said describes my situation exactly.

Which leads me to a good comparison. Basically Ray, being an England fan is like being a Cubs fan. A long history with lots of hope but precious little actual success.

That Guardian link sums it up really.

Dark Archive

At least England won in '66.

That's more than a half-century more recently than the Cubs -- but EXCELLENT comparison.

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