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A different kind of post


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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Qadira ****

I often post threads when I need to rant about something in the game.
Bad Judge calls, strange rule intrepretations, crazy players or really bad players, stupid things that got under my skin for one reason or another.

This is not that kind of a tread.

I had a really good game last night. Best in a long time (some lately have made me question playing in Organized Play any more). Fun players, great judge, nice venue...
was there bad things? Sure! It was kind of loud (at a store with other games going on at the next table). It started late, ran late and felt rushed. We were VERY overmatched and it should have ended in a TPK (we ran away in the last encounter - and should have lost at least half the characters but the Judge called it for time). (six players, lvls 4,4,2,2,2,1 so we were Tier 4-5, with no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod).

But damn was it fun. And it was the players (and judge) who made it that way.

'nuff said. But it needed to be said.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
nosig wrote:
But damn was it fun. And it was the players (and judge) who made it that way.

This is always the case. A bad scenario can be made fun by good players and GMs. A good scenario can be a miserable experience with bad players and/or a poor GM.

Qadira ****

yeah - but after wandering the desert for months "I have found the promaced land!".

Taldor ***

nosig wrote:
no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod

That right there has become my understanding of a formula for fun in PFS. That and making sure to not have any casters with casting stats of 18+ with save-DC spells.

Maybe I'll call it the Rule of Eighteen. Stay below 18 Strength or 18 in the casting stat, and the fun level goes up for everyone!

-Matt

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mattastrophic wrote:
nosig wrote:
no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod

That right there has become my understanding of a formula for fun in PFS. That and making sure to not have any casters with casting stats of 18+ with save-DC spells.

Maybe I'll call it the Rule of Eighteen. Stay below 18 Strength or 18 in the casting stat, and the fun level goes up for everyone!

-Matt

Gah! You've triggered my investigative analysis reflex! Now I have to remember numbers I heard from every character I've played alongside and calculate likely stats and then cross-reference with good and bad moments and extrapolate correlations and speculate on causality and BLAAARRRGGGHH!!!

** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I far prefer fights to be fast and frenzied than long drawn out slog-a-thons, so a well timed colour spray does just nicely thanks... Even if I'm the fighter.

Actually the biggest thing that affects my enjoyment of the game is OOC conversation, particularly during combat. When everyone is discussing tactics at length during other people's turns I get really bored. I do it myself occasionally, to be fair, but I've played a couple of games online recently where that didn't happen. They were blisteringly fast and really fun. I don't care what the stats are, so long as the player is ready to act on his turn and no-one interrupts him. :-)

Silver Crusade ****

Jiggy wrote:
Gah! You've triggered my investigative analysis reflex! Now I have to remember numbers I heard from every character I've played alongside and calculate likely stats and then cross-reference with good and bad moments and extrapolate correlations and speculate on causality and BLAAARRRGGGHH!!!

Jiggy, you're thinking too hard.

Qadira ****

Mattastrophic wrote:
nosig wrote:
no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod

That right there has become my understanding of a formula for fun in PFS. That and making sure to not have any casters with casting stats of 18+ with save-DC spells.

Maybe I'll call it the Rule of Eighteen. Stay below 18 Strength or 18 in the casting stat, and the fun level goes up for everyone!

-Matt

Ah... I fear your formula does not work. In the game listed above, I know one of the two casters had a 20 (CHA) with a stat booster to 22. It was actually the 4th level Bard (Street Preformer) (and my character), and I think the other 4th level (Cleric) had an 18 (I think). I think our combat issues were more than likely from trying to front line with 2nd level rogues at Tier 4-5.

My original point was more like - "it's all about the people you play with". I had been gameing with self-centered, rude, crude, persons who cheat (poorly) at every aspect of the game. But things are better now.

I have found a group of players (different venue, different group of 12+ gamers) that I can enjoy playing with. Persons who are fun to sit at a table with, even when my character is getting the snot beat out of them. Who laugh and have a funny line both when our gunslinger blows away the bad guy with one shot ("just like Ind. Jones! out come the sword and BOOM! down goes the BBG") and when the rogue does neg HP for the 4th (or was it 5th or 6th?) time in this melee ("I fall down, but I get up again...").

Taldor ***

nosig wrote:
I have found a group of players (different venue, different group of 12+ gamers) that I can enjoy playing with. Persons who are fun to sit at a table with, even when my character is getting the snot beat out of them.

Nice. Stick with those people to the exclusion of the others; a point of XP is just not worth playing with self-centered, rude cheaters.

-Matt

Qadira ****

you're right there Matt. I recognized that even when I was looking at a TPK and was trying to figure if I had enough PP to salvage my 4th level bard (Shadow Lodge - isn't there a vanity for it?).

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

Stormfriend wrote:
Actually the biggest thing that affects my enjoyment of the game is OOC conversation

IMO, there are two types of ooc table-talk. One, is the kind that seems to make gaming fun. Movie references, quotes (even bad ones), etc keep the game from getting too serious. Although, left unchecked, this type of ooc talk can derail a session.

The other directly affects the game and we call it meta-gaming. When players are discussing in-depth tactics and planing everyone's actions 2-3+ rounds in advance like it is a pre-arranged choreography, I lose interest very quickly. It is similar in concept to over-optimizing your character. Add in an "alpha" player who keeps telling everyone else what to do, where to go, even calculating their dice rolls for them, and it's gets even worse. This irritates me as a GM, but full-on pisses me off when I'm a player.

Moral of the story, joke around and have some fun. Announce your actions, but for gawd's sake, let everyone else take their own actions.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
even calculating their dice rolls for them,

I actually have to stop myself from doing this sometimes. :P It's a pet peeve of mine when someone spends all their time in melee yet never thinks to write down the sum of their STR mod, BAB, and weapon enhancement bonus; instead they have to go through that arithmetic every single turn.

Taking a moment to add flanking or other situational modifiers? Fine. Taking time every round to add the three numbers that don't change mid-combat, even though you've recited the math enough times that I have it memorized? Less fine.

But I try not to say anything in-game. I admit to having failed once or twice, though. :(

Qadira ****

so, when the lady across the table running a rogue (first character) looks down at the table and says "is there anyway for me to get a flank?" do I point out how she can take a 5' step?

when the spell caster is fixing to cast, and she is within reach of the mook with a longspear (represented by a piece of candy) do I point this out? or wait till she casts and just AOO her (surprizing the player)?

We often point things out in play to each other. Yeah, I "hideous laughtered" that mook, so you can move past him if you want. This is common "cross table talk" about tactics - but done respectfully and with care to be sure not to be "running the other character".

Qadira ****

Jiggy wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
even calculating their dice rolls for them,

I actually have to stop myself from doing this sometimes. :P It's a pet peeve of mine when someone spends all their time in melee yet never thinks to write down the sum of their STR mod, BAB, and weapon enhancement bonus; instead they have to go through that arithmetic every single turn.

Taking a moment to add flanking or other situational modifiers? Fine. Taking time every round to add the three numbers that don't change mid-combat, even though you've recited the math enough times that I have it memorized? Less fine.

But I try not to say anything in-game. I admit to having failed once or twice, though. :(

Guilty! I'm Guilty!

also trying to get people to roll more than one dice at a time.
Nothing drives me craze faster than the guy who rolls each die... and added each up...
d6 roll 4..." a four!"
pick up d6 roll again 3...." and three...ah... 7!"
pick up d6 roll again 2...." and two...ah ...10!"
put d6 away, find d4, roll 3, "a three, makes ..."
other player "guy you had 9 total not 10!"
first player "what? wait... you sure?"...
Yeah - happened recently.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

nosig wrote:
so, when the lady across the table running a rogue (first character) looks down at the table and says "is there anyway for me to get a flank?" do I point out how she can take a 5' step?

Is she an experience player or a n00b? If the latter, then sure we have a duty to help her (or him) understand the nuances of the game. If the former, then no, they know the game. But, even then it can be done IC, that is more applicable.

nosig wrote:
when the spell caster is fixing to cast, and she is within reach of the mook with a longspear (represented by a piece of candy) do I point this out? or wait till she casts and just AOO her (surprizing the player)?

See above. Assuming the player is experienced, from an OOC perspective, telling them what to do (in this case, moving before casting) IS meta-gaming. From an IC perspective, not only would you not know the action was taking place until it occurred (and thus provoking), the caster is likely much more knowledgeable about the situation and your character would have no reason to counsel them on "their business."

nosig wrote:
We often point things out in play to each other. Yeah, I "hideous laughtered" that mook, so you can move past him if you want. This is common "cross table talk" about tactics - but done respectfully and with care to be sure not to be "running the other character".

If done IC it is fine. My paladin's schtick was to draw AoO's for movement so everyone else could get to where they wanted to be. So he would start combat by saying, "I will rush past the monster to draw his attention so you can slip in behind him."

By saying that, I declare my actions, but do not directly tell another player where to go. It is a far cry from (their turn), "Hey Mrs. Rogue you can move along this grid-path, here, here, here...and then your can tumble from this square here to this one here, and then pop up and attack. You'll have flank and can get sneak attack damage. Oh, and be sure to use your Bleeding Attack so the wizard can use that cool spell that only works when the target is bleeding."

The key to all of this is the experience level of the player. The more experienced they are, the less cross-talk should occur. By mid-level (5+) no one should be telling each other what to do or how to do it, unless it is done IC. This is especially true when your character would not have adequate knowledge of another character's specific skills to make such suggestions.

Of course, this is all just my perspective. YMMV.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

nosig wrote:
Guilty! I'm Guilty!

I was referring more to player A sitting next to player B.

Player A rolls a 13 on a D20.
Player B immediately announces, "13," reaches towards Player A's character sheet points to the bonus.
"Plus 8, that's 21," then turns to the GM and says, "we already know the AC was 20 so he hit."
Turns back to Player A and says, "now roll damage. You do 2d6+3 plus 1 for the magic weapon that the wizard cast on you."

And unfortunately, this is not a hypothetical. I've seen it happen twice in the past month, both times at a tier 5-9 table.

Qadira ****

in the above examples from me
(in my latest game - the really fun one) - the lady with the rogue was kinda new (though I didn't know it till later). And she asked for movement advice, something I just seem to be able to see (I'm very good at spacial relations - just really bad at spelling). SO, partly in the interest of time I said, "a 5' step will let you flank #5" or something like that. She said something like "that sounds great!" and a different player bumped her mini over. (I think). I say that this is partly in the interest of time because it saved her standing up and giving a careful examination of the positions of all the pieces on the board (she had been recording damage taken).

The spell caster in question had been distracted (not sure what from) prior to the spell being cast, and the mook in question had moved up to hit someone else - but was armed with a reach weapon and was represented on the board by something that was not even humaniod...

Aditional table cross talk -
"he's prone and laughing" when the Judge is moving a mook pawn.

"did you roll his second save? did he stop laughing?"

"Well, you could flank this guy..." -"hay! that's me!" " yeah, but she could flank you with my help."

Before the game starts, I turn to the player running the cleric and say "My bard has Detect magic and a 6 in Spellcraft - if you don't want to prep Detect magic" - some players/judges feel it is Meta-gaming to compare spell lists...

Qadira ****

Bob Jonquet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Guilty! I'm Guilty!

I was referring more to player A sitting next to player B.

Player A rolls a 13 on a D20.
Player B immediately announces, "13," reaches towards Player A's character sheet points to the bonus.
"Plus 8, that's 21," then turns to the GM and says, "we already know the AC was 20 so he hit."
Turns back to Player A and says, "now roll damage. You do 2d6+3 plus 1 for the magic weapon that the wizard cast on you."

And unfortunately, this is not a hypothetical. I've seen it happen twice in the past month, both times at a tier 5-9 table.

LOL true - I've seen it to. But that's just rude - not cross table talk. It's trying to "play by yourself" and PFSOP attracts some of those people. Kind of like the posters who flame me when I say I have a Cleric who can't hit the badguys, or a Bard with no combat abilities. They just got to teach me the "correct" way to build characters.

Your +8 example is kind of cool though. During my last game I was sitting next to the DM's lady friend who had said to me that she was doing "the bonding thing by coming to play" and she had a 2nd level gunslinger. I asked if it was a Pistoliero (like the Iconic) and she said yeah... so we got to chat about characters a little outside of the game. wanting to make her feel welcome. During the game a few times she would struggle with where on her sheet things were (kind of reminded me of when my wife was learning) and I had to hold myself in check and let her figure things out. Never quite got up to showing her about rolling attack and damage dice at the same time... maybe next week.

Qadira ****

anyway, back on topic!

Anyone else got any great game exp. lately? One just fun to be at?

Grand Lodge **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
nosig wrote:

Anyone else got any great game exp. lately? One just fun to be at?

I remember the incident on the Throaty Mermaid...

We were escorting some elven big-wig on a long voyage. The food was terrible. Oh, and I was assigned as the only veteran Pathfinder, looking after a troop of greenhorns. (Level 5, in subtier 3-4, with two level 2s and three level 1s, two of whom were brand-new characters.) And just my luck, three of the five were boisterous halflings. Talk about having my work cut out for me.

I did eventually manage to take over the kitchen for the last few days of the trip; long enough to keep the voyage from leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths, so to speak. Turns out the original cook didn't really have any proper culinary credentials, so it was quite a chore getting the kitchen into decent working order.

Oh, and the big-wig got murdered and we had to figure out who did it. Of course, that's all in a day's work; but that galley was a nightmare!

Andoran ****

I've definitely found a direct correlation between my fun and the number of optimized characters at the table.

I sat at a TPK last Sunday that was a blast. I will gladly TPK every scenario if I get to have that much fun every time.

Sczarni **

nosig wrote:

anyway, back on topic!

Anyone else got any great game exp. lately? One just fun to be at?

We had a great table in NYC last week where everyone knew the creatures we were fighting in side and out but as a group refused to metagame. Our characters wasted actions and even healed the baddies because we could not make a knowledge, perception or spell craft roll above 15

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
nosig wrote:


Before the game starts, I turn to the player running the cleric and say "My bard has Detect magic and a 6 in Spellcraft - if you don't want to prep Detect magic" - some players/judges feel it is Meta-gaming to compare spell lists...

I can understand the complaint if you're talking about skill ranks and other stats, but comparing spell lists can be done completely in character. For instance, I'd think it would be very appropriate if your bard walked up to my cleric after the Pathfinder Society assigned us to work together and began a conversation like this:

"Sister Isabella, I know that as a priestess of Sarenrae, thou hast access to divine magics granted by your goddess. I, too, dabble in the arcane arts, though not as intensely as a dedicated practitioner of magic. To aid the success of our forthcoming mission, I'd be happy to inform you of the magics I bring to our adventuring company, so thou might pray for different magics in the morn, and we may complement each other's strengths in our coming venture."

If you use the words "thou", "hast", and "morn", then it's totally in character. :p

Andoran **** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau aka Arnim Thayer

I ran Throaty Mermaid for a group of veteran players. One had a 1/2 orc barbarian with a wizard "handler." When given their mission...

Hidden Stuff:
... the handler explained to the 1/2 orc, "no killing the elves, got that!" to which the barbarian agreed. In the encounter where the sea elves attack, he was the ONLY PC to noticed them (everyone else failed their Perception check) and even won Initiative. He held his action in the surprise round, waiting to get permission to attack the elves. Almost wiped out the party... all due to good roleplaying! And they had a blast!

Qadira ****

Isabella Brightsword wrote:
nosig wrote:


Before the game starts, I turn to the player running the cleric and say "My bard has Detect magic and a 6 in Spellcraft - if you don't want to prep Detect magic" - some players/judges feel it is Meta-gaming to compare spell lists...

I can understand the complaint if you're talking about skill ranks and other stats, but comparing spell lists can be done completely in character. For instance, I'd think it would be very appropriate if your bard walked up to my cleric after the Pathfinder Society assigned us to work together and began a conversation like this:

"Sister Isabella, I know that as a priestess of Sarenrae, thou hast access to divine magics granted by your goddess. I, too, dabble in the arcane arts, though not as intensely as a dedicated practitioner of magic. To aid the success of our forthcoming mission, I'd be happy to inform you of the magics I bring to our adventuring company, so thou might pray for different magics in the morn, and we may complement each other's strengths in our coming venture."

If you use the words "thou", "hast", and "morn", then it's totally in character. :p

Isabella, I fear I must protest! For thou must see, I speak thusly in my normal life! It is only in the guise of my Bard - a wanton harlot - that I gain the more common speach.

(IC is IC - each of my characters has their own speach patterns, mannerisms and voice. it's part of playing. Some players like it, others get a little creeped out when the old bald guy is hitting on them like a "wanton harlot").

Qadira ****

In my last game - doing the extraction of information from captured evil doers, the following scene took place.

Cleric (good cop):"tell us what we want to know and it will go much easier on you"
DM as Ulfan warrier:"I spit upon you. I will tell you nothing, I will have died in battle, as a true warrier!"
Bard (bad cop - dominatix outfit with whip)"but darlin', I have no intention of killing you" draw whip, crack it in the air as it bursts into flame (hell fire trait). "There's lots of other interesting things I can do, but I never kill and I have no intention to do so now" soft purring voice. "we could have fun for years at my estate just outside of Westcrown. I'm sure you'll come to ... enjoy it there..." Slowly draw a silver dagger and trace it down her own fore arm - where it bursts into flame and she shakes droplets of hissing liquid from the blade to the floor beside him (Prestiditations). Then tell Judge I'm taking ten on the Diplomacy roll and I have a 26 before assists from the rest of my team.
Cleric (good cop):" all we want to know...."

** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

nosig wrote:

so, when the lady across the table running a rogue (first character) looks down at the table and says "is there anyway for me to get a flank?" do I point out how she can take a 5' step?

when the spell caster is fixing to cast, and she is within reach of the mook with a longspear (represented by a piece of candy) do I point this out? or wait till she casts and just AOO her (surprizing the player)?

We often point things out in play to each other. Yeah, I "hideous laughtered" that mook, so you can move past him if you want. This is common "cross table talk" about tactics - but done respectfully and with care to be sure not to be "running the other character".

Noobies get all the help they need, and if someone is asking for clarification that's just fine. I'll admit I remind people of things occasionally, like provoking AoOs (the player may have been busy checking spell descriptions when the mook moved), but I've seen entire combats derailed by conversations about tactics three rounds deep, with other players engaging in completely unrelated conversations about levelling up their character, or some cool new item, or a cool character they had five years ago in a completely different edition of the game... All whilst the GM is trying to hear the player who's turn it actually is. And then of couse no-one who was talking about unrelated matters has the slightest idea what just happened and has to be reminded what's going on. The more it happens, the more people get bored and start talking about other things and it snowballs into chaos! :-)

Out of combat I don't mind anywhere near so much. I just like people to focus when it matters.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've definitely found a direct correlation between my fun and the number of people at the table who have yet to advance past the idea of optimization being a hindrance to roleplaying, excitement, or any other medium of fun.

Fortunately, not many such people play locally. Every now and then you get the judgmental head-shake when you announce an impressive check result or damage roll or AC or whatever, but the vast majority of Society players in my area get their fun from interactions at the table rather than what numbers are on my character sheet.

Silver Crusade **

My heart was truly warmed the last time I had a chance to game (curse you, college education!). I arrived after a gap of several months, sit down, and the module begins. The venture captain opens up, and needs a knowledge check. Being a lore oracle, I drop out 46, at lvl 5. The whole table stops and stares, and one player says, in character: "Oh. You're the chap who knows bloody well everything in the library? We've been anxious to meet you...."

My character had the chance to respond: "Knows? I recovered half the texts you've ever read, and known more than the rest of this room combined. Knowledge is power, and based on that face, I and my 'Blade of Truth' are the most powerful beings in this city." For extra fun, prestidigitation on the sword to make it glow with a sharp, white light.

By the end of the module, I had a chance to prove my prowess (soloing 2 of the 3 combats, dice gods gave me many crits in a row). By the end of it, people couldn't stop talking about how my mad idea of a character actually worked both mechanically and roleplaying. Lets see you play a dex 7 melee sorc through that first level, where his maxed AC was 11, and on one notable ocassion, dropped to measly 2 (enlarged, ended up squeezing, no armor bonus, charged. The GM wept at the sheer insanity of it).

Qadira ****

Party opens a door to a building, and rolls Init. BBE at a railing to loft above (2nd floor open to the room below) yells "kill them!" and the fight starts. My full plate/Tower shield Dwarven cleric in the front actually rolled great in Init and goes early in Init. I reach down to the mat and start moving. "5-10-15, these two mooks get AOOs for my AC of 26 as I move around them, -20-25, these stairs are difficult? ok I kick in nimble feet- travel domain, 30-35-40-45-50-"
Judge "what the heck is your movement?"
Me "40 foot with the long strider spell up"
Judge "in full plate?"
Me "yep. Dwarf, and the difficult terrain stairs doesn't count when I kick in nimble feet. anyway, 55-60- the boss man gets an AOO as I move past but I'll use my Adoration so he'll need to make a will save to swing, -65-70 double move to here pinning him in the corner against the railing ... what the heck -75-80 I run back and forth behind him and say 'Want a Beer? I got some here and I'll share. We can watch the fights and discuss stuff!'."

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Heh, it's fun when a character is super-specialized in unusual things/combinations of things. Seems like people always talk about being either optimized for DPR (or spell DCs, for a caster), or being a jack of all trades; like those are the only two options.

Sometimes the best moments are when you're really good at something that nobody's ever good at.

Table: "What do you mean this all hinges on making a Craft (Calligraphy) check? Does anyone even have that?"

Player A: "It just so happens to be my specialty! I have a +17 to calligraphy!"

Table: "Bwuuuuhhhh???"

Taldor ***

I played an adventure where the BBEG happened to have bard class levels. The nature of the encounter was the rather obnoxious crowd-control he could inflict on us pathfinder protagonists.

Once I finally managed to close with him for some long denied beating down, the GM (roleplaying the BBEG) turns to me and offers his extended finger, asking that I pull it.

Thus began a memorably-roleplayed casting of 'Hideous Laughter'.

Qadira ****

Party on a Dungeon crawl and we find a pit just thru the next door. 10 foot across and we're doing the calculations on if we can jump/climb- whatever to get across and the 2nd level fighter says - "let's knock apart the bookshelves in the last room and build a bridge" "with what?" "well, I've got masterwork carpenters tools and ranks in craft Carpentry... " everyone (including me) look at the Tank a little differently then. "hay, he likes to do things other than just brake things."


nosig wrote:
We were VERY overmatched and it should have ended in a TPK (we ran away in the last encounter - and should have lost at least half the characters but the Judge called it for time).

Different strokes for different folks, obviously. I hate, hate, hate when the party survives an encounter only due to screamingly obvious GM pity. It's like the first time I realised that my parents were letting me win at board games as a kid. :-(

Actually, it's much more like a 2E campaign that I played in as an undergraduate where every encounter would end with a deus ex machina or the monsters suddenly losing interest. :-(

I certainly agree that a good GM and good fellow players can make all the difference, though! :-)

Qadira ****

hogarth wrote:
nosig wrote:
We were VERY overmatched and it should have ended in a TPK (we ran away in the last encounter - and should have lost at least half the characters but the Judge called it for time).

Different strokes for different folks, obviously. I hate, hate, hate when the party survives an encounter only due to screamingly obvious GM pity. It's like the first time I realised that my parents were letting me win at board games as a kid. :-(

Actually, it's much more like a 2E campaign that I played in as an undergraduate where every encounter would end with a deus ex machina or the monsters suddenly losing interest. :-(

I certainly agree that a good GM and good fellow players can make all the difference, though! :-)

Yeah, that's why I listed it among the bad parts of that evenings play - the machanics of it dropped us into a Tier 4-5 when we knew we were going to be overmatched. (APL of 2.5 rounds to 3, add one for 6 players...). And that didn't reflect that the 2nd level characters mostly each had 3 ARs (just made 2nd) and the 1st level was a starting character. And my 4th was playing her 10th game so she had just leveled also.

And the mod set up pushed us (rushing didn't help but still, we were very over matched and knew it after the first encounter) from one combat encounter strait into the next with only a few rounds of prep. This put us in the final encounter against 4 prepped 4th level bad guys, with almost all our spells & healing cast (little or no resources left). Heck, I had one first level spell left... It is highly likely that one character could have gotten away (mine), as I could run faster than 3/4 of the bad guys and I still had half my hit points left. But we would have lost the 4 low level PCs for sure and I think they would have got the cleric too (unless he had a "get away" gimmick).

But all that was just part of the machinics of the game - the players/Judge made the game one of the best in a long time. I stopped everyone as we were rushing out (standing in the parking lot at like midnight) to thank them for a great game.

Shadow Lodge

nosig wrote:
(six players, lvls 4,4,2,2,2,1 so we were Tier 4-5, with no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod).

As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.

Still, you were the underdogs and being the underdog is always fun (no matter your ability scores).

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Nickademus42 wrote:
As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.

Most players pick to play up for the better reward when they can play up. 3.5 can play in sub-tier 4-5 in a tier 1-4 scenario.

Qadira ****

Nickademus42 wrote:
nosig wrote:
(six players, lvls 4,4,2,2,2,1 so we were Tier 4-5, with no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod).

As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.

Still, you were the underdogs and being the underdog is always fun (no matter your ability scores).

we were told the calculation went like this. 4+4+2+2+2+1= 15 / 6 gives 2.5 now round up (2.4 would round down) so that gives us 3, add 1 for a full table is 4, so the table did not have the option. Tier 4-5. Is this calculation wrong?

There was some talk at first when we thought we were going to be 3 and have a choice about "playing up" - but I was objecting (I was one of the 4s, and I know my character has very little combat abilities, she NEVER wants to play up.) If there had been another FACE at the table, or a arcane besides the 1st level magus (starter), I would likely have played either a 3rd lvl or a 5th (but both of those are Rogues, and we had two 2nd level rogues at the table as it was).

Qadira ****

Dragnmoon wrote:
Nickademus42 wrote:
As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.
Most players pick to play up for the better reward when they can play up. 3.5 can play in sub-tier 4-5 in a tier 1-4 scenario.

I try to never play up. I can have as much fun playing down and am not overly greedy (or perhaps am overly timid).

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

nosig wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Nickademus42 wrote:
As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.
Most players pick to play up for the better reward when they can play up. 3.5 can play in sub-tier 4-5 in a tier 1-4 scenario.
I try to never play up. I can have as much fun playing down and am not overly greedy (or perhaps am overly timid).

Our group played up for Mists of Mwangi, and they all agreed it was the most fun they had had in a while. It was actually a challenge for them, instead of the usual cake-walk. I'm not positive if it was just the scenario or that they played up, but they enjoyed themselves. Since then, when they could they've always played up, and again while challenging, they've been having a bit more fun I think than when they were playing it safe.

Andoran ***

nosig wrote:
Nickademus42 wrote:
nosig wrote:
(six players, lvls 4,4,2,2,2,1 so we were Tier 4-5, with no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod).

As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.

Still, you were the underdogs and being the underdog is always fun (no matter your ability scores).

we were told the calculation went like this. 4+4+2+2+2+1= 15 / 6 gives 2.5 now round up (2.4 would round down) so that gives us 3, add 1 for a full table is 4, so the table did not have the option. Tier 4-5. Is this calculation wrong?

There was some talk at first when we thought we were going to be 3 and have a choice about "playing up" - but I was objecting (I was one of the 4s, and I know my character has very little combat abilities, she NEVER wants to play up.) If there had been another FACE at the table, or a arcane besides the 1st level magus (starter), I would likely have played either a 3rd lvl or a 5th (but both of those are Rogues, and we had two 2nd level rogues at the table as it was).

Yes, per the PFSOP Guide, this is no longer correct:

Quote:

Average Party Level

In order to determine which subtier a mixed-level group of PCs should play in, you must determine the group’s average party level (APL). You should always round this number down. In addition, because encounters are designed with four players in mind, if there are six or more players at the table, add +1 to the APL.

Note that it says always round down, so your group should have been APL 3, exactly, and had the choice of playing up or down.

Qadira ****

Callarek wrote:
nosig wrote:
Nickademus42 wrote:
nosig wrote:
(six players, lvls 4,4,2,2,2,1 so we were Tier 4-5, with no tank, and no melee in a combat heavy mod).

As a side note, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your APL 3.5? Why were you even playing Tier 4-5? That may be part of your problem right there.

Still, you were the underdogs and being the underdog is always fun (no matter your ability scores).

we were told the calculation went like this. 4+4+2+2+2+1= 15 / 6 gives 2.5 now round up (2.4 would round down) so that gives us 3, add 1 for a full table is 4, so the table did not have the option. Tier 4-5. Is this calculation wrong?

There was some talk at first when we thought we were going to be 3 and have a choice about "playing up" - but I was objecting (I was one of the 4s, and I know my character has very little combat abilities, she NEVER wants to play up.) If there had been another FACE at the table, or a arcane besides the 1st level magus (starter), I would likely have played either a 3rd lvl or a 5th (but both of those are Rogues, and we had two 2nd level rogues at the table as it was).

Yes, per the PFSOP Guide, this is no longer correct:

Quote:

Average Party Level

In order to determine which subtier a mixed-level group of PCs should play in, you must determine the group’s average party level (APL). You should always round this number down. In addition, because encounters are designed with four players in mind, if there are six or more players at the table, add +1 to the APL.
Note that it says always round down, so your group should have been APL 3, exactly, and had the choice of playing up or down.

Ah, well live and learn I guess. - at Tier 1-2 we would have been fine I'm sure. At least we wouldn't have been ending each encounter by figuring how many times one of out rogues got dropped. (and looking at a TPK going into the last encounter).

Qadira ****

casting raise dead on this thread - I just want to get another one on fun gaming session back on the board. Too many up there where posters are just complaining....

Hay! had another great session last night!

The same venue, same judge and at least one of the same players as the one we almost got TPKed in and had as much (or more) fun. Kind of felt like I had wondered into a comic book though(in a good way), with a Captain Andoran (with shield), and the Punisher (two pistols) at the table, but they were a lot of fun. A Taldorian Dwarf (we where in Taldor) who kept talking of the "old empire" and reminding us he was "older and wiser then the rest of us!" Great fun was had by all! (and no near TPK).

Shadow Lodge

must.... complain.... @.@

Qadira ****

I need to hear some nice game stories - so I'm looking for a different kind of thread. No complaints, no flames, no downers... just something funny that happened in your lastest game.

I'll start. I'm running a new character, and Alchemist fresh out of First Steps. Setting at a table, another player and I relate watching a different Alchemist in a different game throw sort and splash himself and his friends more than once... at which point my Alchemist does just that. Move up - lob the grenade, roll a 2, roll a 1 for direction (short) and glance at the PCs to each side of me. I get the image of scorched faces. smoke trailing up from blackened clothing. The real cartoon scene...

For some reason the next time I yeah "fire in the hole!" everyone else scatters to behind my character.

Qadira ****

Last night. My wife is running her Aasimar Cleric that she runs as noticably pregnant. She comments that she's "eating for two you know" while in a Gather Information section of the mod - we're hitting several places around town. One of the other players asks if she rolled an Aid Another check for the Baby... had her going for her dice before she realized which baby he was talking about. LOL!

Silver Crusade **

My group had a fun game yesterday. We were playing tier 4-5, because most of the regulars in our group have characters at that level. But we had a level 2 magus along for the ride, because that player just doesn't show up as often to play. Of course, he's bringing up the rear in the marching order when we get ambushed from behind. We should have known to put him in the middle of the group. So he loses 11 of his 12 HP in the surprise round. Luckily, he was able to 5 foot step quickly to put my barbarian between him and the beast that attacked us.

My barbarian just hit level 4 before this adventure, so my invulnerable rager DR is up to 2 now. I got to see just how useful that is when I tanked against a beasty that hit for 5 attacks per round. Between the -2 AC for raging and the -2 AC for Reckless Abandon, not to mention the AC penalty for having charged the first round, this thing had no problem hitting me 4-5 times every round. Subtracting 2 points off the damage each time saved me well over 20 HP in that fight, and probably saved me over a dozen HP in another fight against something that hit 3 times per round.

The other advantage of hitting level 4 is that my Power Attack bonus with a two handed weapon is now up to +6, so while raging, I was adding +15 to my greataxe damage every round. This barbarian is quite a beast.

But the funniest thing that happened was in a tough fight where my barbarian dropped to 1 HP. An earlier knowledge check by someone in our group had said that this beast we were fighting was likely to explode when killed, so I was a little nervous about striking the killing blow. The GM let us know that the thing appeared to be on its last legs, so I withdrew (towards the cleric to beg for healing), and told the level 2 magus to try and finish it off from range. He hits it with Acid Splash - a level 0 cantrip! - rolls a 1 on the damage, and the thing explodes! I just thought it was great that after a tough fight that beat up all us level 4-5 characters, and got our tank down to 1 HP, it was the low level guy with a cantrip that got the kill - on a 1 damage roll.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Ontario aka Feegle

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Last week. We Be Goblins. Early on, as the GM was expositioning about the dangers we'd face in the swamp, I caught Reta's player taking notes about the story. NOTES!

I interrupted the GM. I make no apologies for it, as it needed to be done. "Letters!" I shouted. "Reta make writing! Reta use LETTERS! There a NEW Scribbleface!"

That pretty much set the tone for the whole night. I could write a two-thousand word post about how much fun we had in that module. Actually, I may just do that right now... I'll just make sure to put the whole thing in spoilers.

(Also, after my interruption, all the players took their notes in pictograms, lest they be called out for using bad, bad writing.)

Edit: Okay, here's more. Spoilered.

After the party…

Spoiler:
we had Reta and Poog suffering from the effects of sickness, due to their overconsumption of fermented apples. Silly Poog. Also, silly Reta, but not nearly so silly as Poog. As we were about to set out on our trip, I, Mogmurch the Magnificent, proclaimed:

"Mogmurch is leader. You all listen to Mogmurch."

"Mogmurch not leader," snapped Reta, irritably. "RETA is leader."

"No." said Mogmurch. "Mogmurch is leader. Reta and Poog are still drunk from apples last night. And Chuffy is ugly. Mogmurch is leader."

"But - " said Poog, before Mogmurch interrupted him again.

"No, Poog. Mogmurch is leader. Once Reta and Poog not sick, we talk again."

"Is fair," said Reta, shrugging.

"Of course is fair," said Mogmurch, producing a pair of fermented apples from his backpack and offering them to Poog and Reta. "Apple?"

"Reta NO eat apple. Apples make Reta sick!" shouted Reta.

"You eat apple," said Mogmurch. "Mogmurch leader, and he said you eat apple."

Reta grumbled, but acquiesced, taking a large bite out of the apple, and nearly vomiting.

Overall…

Spoiler:
Poog kept trying to intimidate the monsters. He tried to intimidate Lotslegs, the dogs, the horse, and eventually Vorka. He never rolled an intimidate roll above 4 on a d20. After the third failed attempt, Mogmurch started yelling, "No one scared of you, Poog!" every time he announced his intent. After the fifth time, Reta and Chuffy were joining in.

After the first encounter…

Spoiler:
Reta found some candy. Before the GM could even finish describing it, Reta ate it. All. At once. Nom.

"You eat all of it?" the GM asked.

"Yup," said Reta's player, grinning.

"Okay," the GM said. "You no longer feel sick; you are over the effects of the fermented apples."

Poor Poog. No candy for him.

On the Boat…

Spoiler:
Leader Mogmurch was in front as the goblins moved up the ramp onto the boat. He was not very noticey, but Reta noticed the tripwire and a large ball hanging over the top of the ramp. "Everything safe!" she announced helpfully. (By this time, she HATED Mogmurch, as he'd kept offering her apples even once she wasn't sickened any more.)

I will never forget the look on Reta's player's face. He curled up his hands and put them in front of his mouth - the same look that a mischievous three-year-old gets on his face when he thinks you're going to fall for one of his tricks. Classic.

"Sense motive," I declare. Bluff roll: 15. Sense Motive: 23.

"Maybe you go first, Reta," said Mogmurch.

"No no, that okay. It safe," said Reta. Then, she attempted to push Mogmurch into the trapped square. She failed her CMB.

"Oh yeah?" Mogmurch said, and grappled Reta. (Okay, I know, no PvP in PFS. But you're playing GOBLINS. How could we resist?!) Two rounds later, and Mogmurch had pushed Reta into the square, setting off the trap and dropping the thing into Reta's square.

Reflex save: Success. Natural 20. GM says, "With a roll like that, I think you caught it."

"I caught it?" said Reta's player. "Then I throw it at Mogmurch."

"I don't think you can…PvP?" said the GM.

"It's fine," I said. "This is AWESOME."

"Roll to hit," sighed the GM.

Reta threw the weapon at Mogmurch, but missed. Mogmurch caught it himself, and threw it back. Bear in mind that we're only a square apart at this point, and poor Poog and Chuffy are sitting five feet back watching what's happening and laughing.

The ball hit Reta square in the head, and split open… WASPS. They hit EVERYONE.

I don't think I've every laughed so hard at a PFS session as I did that night.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jeff Mahood wrote:

Last week. We Be Goblins. Early on, as the GM was expositioning about the dangers we'd face in the swamp, I caught Reta's player taking notes about the story. NOTES!

I interrupted the GM. I make no apologies for it, as it needed to be done. "Letters!" I shouted. "Reta make writing! Reta use LETTERS! There a NEW Scribbleface!"

That pretty much set the tone for the whole night. I could write a two-thousand word post about how much fun we had in that module. Actually, I may just do that right now... I'll just make sure to put the whole thing in spoilers.

(Also, after my interruption, all the players took their notes in pictograms, lest they be called out for using bad, bad writing.)

Edit: Okay, here's more. Spoilered.

After the party…

** spoiler omitted **

Overall…

** spoiler omitted **...

I can't wait to do this module again!

Andoran ***

You are hereby ordered to cease having so much fun at PFS as otherwise you will give people the wrong idea. This is serious business!

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