I´ve been thinking about doing a caracter that focuses on using Telekinesis like a weapon,for quiet some time now.My biggest problem with that: the Violent Thrust version of Telekinesis.I need some advice on a non cheese way to pull this of effectively.
So, how would you use it?
How would you maximise effectiveness?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Strangely, since it's based on BAB, Eldritch Knight is probably the best at tossing things around telekinetically.
I had a sorcerer who used shrink item with Extend Spell to compress a bunch of iron or stone balls which he would release 2 or three at a time and launch. You can also use stone shape to extrude them from walls and floating disk to transport them.
I suggest a single large item because lots of small items have trouble with DR.
It´s not the spell itself thats bugging me, its the way you have to use it....:("hey just let me throw my 10 gargantuan greatswords on the floor")I know i´ll probably have to use weapons beacause wheight dependant damage is 15d6 max witch is not really fantastic for a 5th level spell, and I have to make an attack roll for each dice.I like the flame arrow idea maybe in combination with greater magic weapon, should do pretty decent damage.But I still think throwing the arrows on the floor seems kind of "unprofessional", could an unseen servant hold the arrows up for me? How many objects could it hold reasonably?
Another thing you can try throwing is alchemical items like acid or alchemist's fire. Maybe throw some tanglefoot bags in there for fun as well.
Personally, I think the "throw a bunch of oversized weapons" thing is a bit GM-dependent. Do you apply non-proficiency penalties? Or oversized weapon penalties? It doesn't say in the spell description.
Damn - I thought this was a thread about a new variety of Gorgonzola with psychic powers... ;)
Yep, you got the point of this thread:)
Well floating disk seems to be my best buy as "launching platform",althoug I like unseen servant better for visual reasons.
Shrunken Balista bolts.
If you're a magus, you can also throw yourself. Note that you don't suffer damage (your enemy isn't "a solid surface"), but your enemy does (TK-powered missiles don't need to be solid to deal damage). After throwing yourself, you can full attack using spell combat.
A very cool idea.
If you're a magus, you can also throw yourself. Note that you don't suffer damage (your enemy isn't "a solid surface"), but your enemy does (TK-powered missiles don't need to be solid to deal damage). After throwing yourself, you can full attack using spell combat.
Very cool on the visuals if you consider the visuals like the charge attack of the Vanguard class from Mass Effect 2.
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The key to cheesifying telekinesis is probably leveraging what you can get away with defining as a 'single item'. For example, a keg of black powder weighs 5lbs and inflicts 5d6 damage to a 20ft blast radius when it goes off... but chucking a single keg per caster level is paddling in the kiddy pool. Strap them together in fives to create 25lb 'objects' which inflict 25d6 each and chuck one of them per caster level... all you need is a pal with the spark cantrip readying an action to co-ordinate with you and it's boom-time. Make sure you have one of the ten-zillion different character options to manufacture black powder dirt cheap on your team, of course, since it could get a bit pricey, but still - it's a lot of boom for your buck... ;)
Fuse grenades, from the Adventurer's Armory work even better - 2d6 bludgeoning and 1d6 fire damage per 1lb grenage... or 75d6 damage per barrel of 25 fuse grenades, and one chucked barrel per caster level...
More BOOM! wins! :)
Another thing I've seen done with TK (although it only works against equipment-using NPCs): target a bunch of pieces of one NPC's equipment and throw it at a second NPC. It's like a mass disarm and damage dealing attack rolled into one, sort of.
Also, if you're not worried about breaking stuff, you can hurl an NPC's equipment straight up into the air. The falling damage might destroy it. As a bonus, some pieces might even fall onto the NPC's head (to add injury to insult).
Telekinesis: Because nothing says "I love you" quite like smashing a fully loaded wagon on top of the paladin.
Master Arminas
Telekinesis: Because nothing says "I love you" quite like smashing a fully loaded wagon on top of the paladin.
Master Arminas
Well, with the limit of 25 lbs per caster level capping at 15th level for a total weight of 375 lbs, that is a pretty "small" fully loaded wagon.
Still, I do appreciate the 'paladin love' sentiment...
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Fuse grenades ... 75d6 damage per barrel ... 25 fuse grenades, and one chucked barrel per caster level...
More BOOM! wins! :)
@caster level 15 -> 1125d6, AKA an average damage of 3938. Tarrasque doesn't stand a chance! (for a couple of rounds, anyhow)
(Though it will cost you 37,500 gp for that one massive blow)
Those are all fun tricks:)
But the premise is NOT to get cheesy!
I´ve been thinking about doing a caracter that focuses on using Telekinesis like a weapon,for quiet some time now.My biggest problem with that: the Violent Thrust version of Telekinesis.I need some advice on a non cheese way to pull this of effectively.
So, how would you use it?
How would you maximise effectiveness?Here is what I was thinking “Shrink Item”
The duration is days per level. You can shrink 1 touched object (but an object could be a fire and fuel so go figure). Up to 2 cubic feet per level. You can cast 5th level spells so I assume at least 9th level. That is up to 10 cubic feet.
You shrink the object to 1/4,000 of it’s mass.
Stone Shape lets you shape stone of 10 cubic feet +1 ft/level. So that is about 19 cubic feet so we are all good. You could make two 9.5 cubic ft balls of stone per spell.
granite is about 171 lbs / cubic ft.
So your item would be about 1,624 lbs of granite per ball and when shrunk it would be about .4 lbs.
You may hurl 1 object or creature per caster level. So let’s just say you put a bunch of items into a sack and then hurl the sack at the person and right before it hits them you say the command word to revert the items back to stone balls.
So then you hurl the items at a person. Let’s say for giggles you have 5 item each one weighing .4 lbs easily with in the weight limits of the spell.
If you could fill you r sack with the maximum amount of weight a 9th level caster could cast (so 90 items). When they hit they do 1d6 per 25 lbs. So that is about 5846d6 damage. I would just That is 194 points per object (incase they have DR you need to subtract it 90 times) I still think it is dead.
You're my new favorite.
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At the beginning of each day, take out your oversized quiver with 50 arrows in it, and enchant them with Greater Magic Weapon.
Walk around with it, and if you're expecting combat immediately, enchant them also with Flame Arrow, or Keen Edge, or similar. Otherwise, you're "stuck" with the default +2 to +5 arrows (depending on CL)
For combat, use the Violent Thrust option to launch 9-15 of these magic arrows at a time.
I recommend also having some silver and cold iron arrows in your inventory, "just in case".
You can squeeze more out of this by making the arrows oversized enough to fit your TK weight limit, or your encumbrance restrictions (whichever is less), and thus they will strike as large (1d6/19-20) or huge (1d8/19-20) sized daggars.
Actually, I suggest Crossbow bolts as they weigh less per bolt.
50 bolts = 5 lbs
50 large bolts = 40 lbs
50 huge bolts = 135 lbs
Here is what I was thinking “Shrink Item”
A shrunk item doesn't go back to it's size until after it strikes something, so you'll just be throwing normal rocks which then grow into rough terrain that's scattered about.
At our table, we look at the fact that Shrink Item is a level 3 utility spell, and decree that any use of it as a combat spell allows the target a Reflex save to negate, as a 3rd level spell. Further, as a 3rd level utility spell, it can only do up to 1d6 per caster level, to a maximum of 10d6. We backtrack-explain it by saying that the growth isn't instantaneous, but over the span of the round, so it can only weigh enough to do 10d6 (at level 10 or higher) in any form of attack.
Here is what I was thinking “Shrink Item”A shrunk item doesn't go back to it's size until after it strikes something, so you'll just be throwing normal rocks which then grow into rough terrain that's scattered about.
"Or by word of command from the original caster. " (Pathfinder Core Rulebook)
How about this little ditty. 1 flask is 1 pint volume.
1 cubic foot is 59 pints or so.
So 10 cubic feet of greek fire is is like 590 pints of the stuff.
and costs 11,800 gp (quite the costs I admit)But!!! You would be doing 590d6 damage to one area and 590 points of splash damage to everyone in 5 ft!
Also if you didn't want to use a 5th level spell 3.5 has the 0 level spell launch item!!!
So why does this matter ? Because it is important for you as a DM to always be careful of the cool stuff you put in your descriptions. Players will always find a way to take it.
throwing my helmet into the ring: minor/major creation. a little prep time and you've either got a ton of contact poison (what's the DC if you're swimming in the stuff?) or... well, if your DM will let you make black powder or alchemist's fire with it (well within the bounds of the spell by my thinking, but since it's not specifically listed some people might cry foul) then you've taken care of the hideous cost of the explosive strike suggestions. no need for crafting skills, crafters fortune will have you making your stuff on anything but a natural one.
for those of you who've been advocating arrows, abundant ammunition is your friend. unlimited arrows with replicating enchantments, anyone?
other than the obvious addition of a symbol/explosive runes on whatever you're tossing around, i'm dry of ideas for the moment. check in again when i've got my brain into gear, and i may yet be able to contribute more.
Happy hurling!
My mages with rings of telikinesis carry shrunken boulders of the exact weight limit and unshrink them just before combat. They then violent thrust those around the battlefield.
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For something a little more permanent and cheaper why not use a scizore 1d10 damage on a 3lb weapon make it better than a greatsword for this. Now step the size up to gargantuan and hit a 4d8 damage die and 24 lbs. Assuming you are a magus I believe you can burn a point on arcane accuracy to double the int bonus to attack for a better likelyhood to hit (I think it should work based on the wording, arcane strike might work too...). Carry all these on a floating disk and you have a. Reusable set of projectiles and swing in for 9-15 projectiles and a full attack in a round
The projectiles would do around 40d8 to 60d8 and you can re used them again and again
Awwww. I was hoping for a delicious consumable wondrous item ("telekinetic cheese").
Anyway, I would echo the alchemical item suggestion. Holy Water is a hoot against undead. You can even mix and match your alchemy/special material projectiles. Really, anything with a touch attack basis is a net advantage while using this function of the spell.
I just realised that this is probably the ultimate nuke for arcane trickster. You got to roll sneak attack on every hit giving you potential 15 SA. The most practical way would be probably to simply carry a quiver with arrows.
Near the end of our rise of the runelords game my gnome rogue had a staff with telekinesis on it. I came up with the idea of carrying around something that could do 1 pt of damage. The problem is doing 1 pt of damage +7d6 15 times is probably outside the intended pervue of the spell.
Though it should work for an arcane trickster. Just get a ring of telekinedis and your set.
Can you combine Shrink Item with Polymorph any Object?
I mean after you shrunk your giant 1,5 million lbs boulder down to 375 lbs you could then polymorph it into a feather. Then you fill a pillow with a few hundred of those feathers and challenge your opponent to a pillow fight. You just need to cast dispel on it in the right moment.
Okay back to the telekinesis.
Since you can fire anything why not use something that makes people sick? Cheap poison could come in handy if the enemy has to throw lots of saves.
Or make them filthy. Store the bolts a few weeks in the sewers (or in a corpse) so they carry a disease.
Fire the bolts and then cast a spell to make the effects start immediately (forgot the spell's name).
Flasks with Acid are cheap. One weights 1 lb. You could fire a them as bulk for 375d6 acid damage (costs 3750 gold unless you make it yourself).