MMO wish list


Pathfinder Online

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Goblinworks Founder

Drejk wrote:

When choosing and customizing game engine and world physics, please make sure that creatures are "tangible" - i.e. no running through creatures like they were phantasms.

Consider adding some sort of plane mirroring the mundane world (either Plane Of Shadows or First World or even both if possible) and some pocket planes to visit. Maybe even possibility of groups of very powerful mages creating demiplanes for their guilds.

Plane hopping is an interesting idea. I would not be adverse to time hopping either. Imagine zoning into a alternate futuristic timeline set in the victorian era or that of the great war. Soldiers fighting in trenches over artillery pocked landscapes filled with mud and mustard gas. Your adventuring party teleport into no-mans land where they must seek out the ruins of an ancient catacombs that has been penetrated by artillery, venturing deep into the tomb in order to find some ancient artifact required to access the plane of shadow in your own timeline.

o.O i just had a nerdgasm.

Sovereign Court Goblin Squad Member

I would like for character names to have to be learned through interaction mostly. However, in terms of other things (such as deliveries, assassinations, bounties, fliers, handbills) can 'add' their name to your list, maybe with the option to forget after job was done.


I haven't played a lot of MMOs, but I was a DM for a persistent NWN world for a number of years and always wanted some of these things:

Disguise/change your Character's Name and Description.
During day, I want to play an innocent blacksmith. During night, I want to be a psychotic assassin who dwells in the woods. Normally, that can't be done because the letters that float over your character's head instantly reveals your identity to the rest of the world.

Maybe, you could implement a Disguise Skill that let's you change your appearance, character description and, above all, character name, so you can play a stealthy character, like a spy, an assassin or a masked hero.

Interesting and role-playable death experience
I don't know if you want to encourage role-playing in PFO, but if you do, please make death relevant and try to create a good answer to the inability of Player Characters to stay dead for more than five minutes. In our persistent NWN world, plots that involved assassins where simply stupid because people could be resurrected almost always. Similarly, PvP kinda sucked because defeated people would resurrect to hunt the attacker, in an endless circle of PvP. That is fine in a MMO, but really hurts role-playing.

You could create a different "defeated" condition than death? For example, if you are defeated in a combat, your character doesn't die but stays in coma for a while and then you can wake up depending on your healing skill or whatever. You could be looted and t-bagged. Then, you could create a death state than is more severe for the dead character, but also for the attacker, who gets more negative reputation if he kills his defeated victims.

Different exploration experience based on character class/race/reputation/etc.
I like games with secret content, specially the ones that encourage me to play different characters or ally myself with other players.
For example, places in the cities that can only be accessed by rogues with a Streetwise skill (black market, sewers and contraband tunnels, secret dungeons, guilds, etc.). If a non-rogue character passes near an entrance to those places, she will not see anything interesting, but a rogue could find the secret entrances and take his party with him.
Some thing similar could be done with "druid/ranger paths" that could take a character to new areas or travel faster to different cities using secret shortcuts if she has enough Path-finding skill. Or things like the "face doors" in Fable, that are everywhere and only open if your character meets some specific criteria.

Shareable Map, Books and Diary
First, you should be able to create maps and ad notes to it. The same goes for books. Then, you should be able to trade those things to other players. It would rock if you could set your mini-map based on a traded map, and if the accuracy of your map depended on a skill you have. That could make exploration way more interesting.

Knowledge of the setting as an advantage for players
Knowledge should be everywhere, from NPCs talking about the weather to secret books hidden in ancient ruins, but it also should be relevant to the play experience. Please make quests that could be completed using player knowledge, from puzzles to dialogs with villains.

And it's a long shot... but scratch everything you planned about the game and make...

WE BE GOBLINS!
A MASSIVE MULTIMAYHEM ROLE PLAYING GAME in which you are a little goblin in a land of threatening long-shanks, evil puppies and horses, delicious pickles to be stolen, fireworks to be ignited, things to be destroyed and allies to be friendly-fired. I would love a Pathfinder Online game, but I would totally love a game in which my quest is to set a farm on fire. And my only weapons are my trusty horse-chopper and an alchemist fire. And did I mention the farm is protected by puppies and scarecrows? And that my worst enemies would be my friends who also are armed with fire and the inability to use it carefully? That's the fun formula.


I have faithfully (fiscally?) avoided MMOs, but was hooked on MUDs back in the day. Alas I see another addiction coming :) Anyone else play Gateway?

+1 to player creation of areas (even if you have to complete X quests to gain "Wizard" status.)

+1 to various languages. In the mud when I started speaking dwarven everyone else heard 'gbldbglblk' except the dwarven barkeep that gave me the special stuff from under the counter :)

+1 to crafting based on spell casters OR approprate craft skills.

+1 to actions determining alignment (assuming alignment affects class/abilities)

+1 to APG/UM/UC/UR classes (or at least archetypes) or whatever the legal version will be.

Other items I would like to see.

PFS factions rewarded (ie most points completed this month gain a bonus next month) (discount/bonuses/archived exploits)

Prestige points (especially in relation to resurections)

RPGSS top 32 items (Paizo's second coolest creation, and a small nod to the successful competitors :)

Wizard's learning of spells beyond the daily used (coupled with scribe scroll) (yeah spells per day is difficult with 24-hour gaming, but I would still like to see it :)
tied to the above: arcane bonded item (not necessary with a mana based system methinks) and familiars.

A Knowledge Skill to know monsters weakness/strengths based on the number of times monsters encountered.... not sure what that means from a technical aspect, but thought I would throw it out there.

Looking forward to how this goes.


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1-Character creation steps.
I would like to see a character creation starting with national background, based on the kingdoms and countries close to the River Kingdoms, before even choose race or class.

2-Faction related skills.
Like in the Faction guide, be able to purchase services or even gain new skills as you earn points of loyalty with a faction.

3-Planar travel.
This may appear in game expansions, but I think game experience will be more rich if at certain level characters could adventure into the First world.

4-Pathfinder races.
Since the aparition of the Adventure paths and the Bestiaries, Paizo has offered chances of play as interesting non standard fantasy races, it could be fun be able to create and play a Dhampir or a Tifling character.

5-Alkenstar and Numerian weapons.
The chance to acquire at some point gunpowder or futuristic weaponry, specially for siege scenarios.

6-Lovecraft mythos.
The chance of fight or even summon some of the creatures belonging to the works of H. P. Lovecraft

7-Bard lumph pet.
Perhaps for special editions and with the chance of play songs from the real world picked from hard rock and heavy metal (Blue Oyster cult, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden...)

Goblin Squad Member

Complex harvesting and crafting :: This will be a necessity unless end game is intended to be all PvP.

Limited Quick Travel :: I personally am not a fan of quick travel, but if it must be added, limit it to "civilized" places, maybe via teleportation pad or something. And...assuming that they will try for a working economy and there will be trade between regions, limit quick travel by weight, to not include mounts/caravans/whatever.

Working Economy :: I am all for limited seeding of common materials and maybe common gear, but everything else should be player made or harvested and sold to NPCs which in turn sell it to players (or sold by players directly). All costs should be driven by a comparison of resources on hand vs. supply and demand.

Intelligent Migrations :: All mobs humanoid and monster have desires and needs, they should move as needed in the world to get them. If wolves hunt rabbits and players kill all the rabbits in a region for the fur, wolves either start attacking people more, or move to a place rabbits are still abundant. This will make the players impact in the world very real and allow abandoned structures to be utilized by mobs...creating a dungeon.

Intelligent Looting :: If a humanoid finds loot (such as from a dead character), it will pick it up. Make it so. Want your loot back? Find the mob who took your stuff. Boars should not drop swords no matter how many PCs it has killed. If a humanoid I am fighting it using a sword or wearing a helmet, I should be able to loot them, even if they are in shoddy condition.

A Massive World :: This is for the explorers and those clans who wish to try to carve a place away from the rest of civilization. Given a few years, the wilds may be full of abandoned player built structures...now full of mobs...dungeons!

A complex crafting system :: Just for reinforcement.


I wish that the mechanics will be far away from the pen and paper as possible.

I love pathfinder dont get me wrong but i dont thing that it makes a good direction for a mmo.

Instead id love it if classes didnt have the option of multiclassing and had a choice between certain roles dependent on the archetype they select at lets say tier 2 (lvl 20 or so) with feat choices being represented by a feat tree at lvl 20 meanwhilst you get non role abilities and passive effects (traits) every other level .

id also love it if modular abilities existed , basic powers and abilities that changed depending on your archetype /weapon set , ie lets say you had a ability called rending fury for barbarians that serves as high damage cooldown / chain ability when using a 2hander it gains a higher weapon % damage bonus and inflicts a stun but when used with 2 one handers it causes both weapons to attack at once with a % bonus albeit smaller than the two hander and no stun.


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+1(And if I could many, many more) for Intelligent Looting. I love the Elder Scrolls games for this. I kill crab; I get crap meat/shell. That's it. I kill demon knight in full-plate; I get ALL his stuff, and only his stuff.

I also second all of KitNyx's list. It should take time, though not RL speed, to run from one place to another. If you don't like that speed, get a horse. When I kill things, other things should notice.

The kingdom building aspect sounds awesome, but please don't let griefers ruin it. I like the idea of building a village, helping it grow, building armies to defend it, etc. I don't like the idea that someone can run into my village, kill people, die, and then come right back and do it again.

+1 Shareable Map, Books and Diary. If this economy is player driven, when I find treasure, I want to make a map that says 'x marks the spot'

Shadow Lodge

1. I wish that Pathfinder Online stays true to the artistic style that Pathfinder has. I want to recognise monsters, races and classes from the illustrations in PF books.

2. I would also like to see different languages. So that if I or my group gets a quest that leads us to a orc settlement we would be better of if someone in the group spoke orc. And if we get someone with us that know the language there is also a change to get more quests from the settlement or negotiate with them.

3. +1 on WE BE GOBLINS! my group loved playing goblins. I would like to see goblins as a playable race (and maybe some other monster races). If not please make a game dedicated to the beloved fanatic pyromaniacs when PO is done :D


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I see love for goblins, but what about the kobolds? There are actually kobolds in the River Kingdoms (they actually play a role in the Kingmaker Adventure Path) so I don't think they should be overlooked either. And I'd love to play a kobold myself...or a Lizardfolk.

Shadow Lodge

+1 on sharable maps and making notes, putting misc markers/token on your map. Say you are exploring and you almost get your ass kicked by a powerfull monster and you had to retreat untill you can get your buds to join or get better equipment, then you should be able to mark your map and add a note that says. "Nasty monster. Be prepared and go back for revenge!"

I do not want another game that I have to spend hours after hours gathering and harvesting resources to build houses, craft items etc. I would like it if I could pay someone to do that for me, let it be other PCs or NPCs.

It would also be cool to be able to hire NPC shopkeepers if you build a shop, marketstand or a small lumbermill, so that other players can pay for your services without you having to be there or it to look like an abandoned shop

Goblin Squad Member

I'd like to put up a wish-vote for 3rd person, isometric view. As opposed to first-person or third-person-over-the-shoulder.


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I posted this in another thread but since this is the list, here it is again:

1)What I would like to see is where your level, if they go with levels, is based on your combined skills. For example, fighting skills, crafting skills, gathering skills, etc.

Each of them can be broken down into multiple skills. Combined together they make up your level. In this way, you can become a level 100 crafter without ever fighting if you want.

Also, using items would be based on your skill. If you are a level 100 crafter and want to fight that level 50 mob, you will die in an instant because you are a level 1 in fighting.

I wish games would go this route instead. It allows you to create the kind of character you really want, not what the game forces you to make.

Goblinworks Founder

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Karmatrooper wrote:


1. I wish that Pathfinder Online stays true to the artistic style that Pathfinder has. I want to recognise monsters, races and classes from the illustrations in PF books.

2. I would also like to see different languages. So that if I or my group gets a quest that leads us to a orc settlement we would be better of if someone in the group spoke orc. And if we get someone with us that know the language there is also a change to get more quests from the settlement or negotiate with them.

3. +1 on WE BE GOBLINS! my group loved playing goblins. I would like to see goblins as a playable race (and maybe some other monster races). If not please make a game dedicated to the beloved fanatic pyromaniacs when PO is done :D

I'm definitely in favor of 1 & 2. I have always loved the art of pathfinder and paizo publishing (dungeon magazine post 3e will always be my favorite). While I'm not a huge fan of cartoon graphics, if the art style of the game were like Pathfinders art I think it would be a perfect medium between the realistic and cartoon. Especially if they used that streaking dye effect for blood splatter. I am definitely in favor of languages, not just separated by demihuman races, but also different human dialects if there is more than one human culture (I'm not familiar with PFRPG homeworld as I used the rules for Greyhawk)

On the topic of number three, goblins being a playable race from the beginning might be a bad idea. The thing with MMO's is you could have anywhere from 1500-15000 per server depending on how much data the server can handle. Imagine a server with twenty percent goblins roaming around human settlements as though nothing were out of the ordinary. If goblin or kobold races were unlocked via some special quest chain or puzzle as a novelty then it wouldn't be so bad. Those that really want it would put the effort in to get it.


Monster resources.

Far too often in D&D/Pathfinder I see useful monsters going to waste and it bothers me. Bone, flesh, hide, so much of that stuff is usable.

Sure it will require specific skills that the people who make the kill may or may not have, but those resources are valuable to somebody, let people make use of them.

Mmmmm, Minotaur burgers.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Monster resources.

Far too often in D&D/Pathfinder I see useful monsters going to waste and it bothers me. Bone, flesh, hide, so much of that stuff is usable.

Sure it will require specific skills that the people who make the kill may or may not have, but those resources are valuable to somebody, let people make use of them.

Mmmmm, Minotaur burgers.

I'm going to build a house out of the teeth of small children. :D


Arikiel wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Monster resources.

Far too often in D&D/Pathfinder I see useful monsters going to waste and it bothers me. Bone, flesh, hide, so much of that stuff is usable.

Sure it will require specific skills that the people who make the kill may or may not have, but those resources are valuable to somebody, let people make use of them.

Mmmmm, Minotaur burgers.

I'm going to build a house out of the teeth of small children. :D

That's probably going to draw the wrong kind of attention :P But go for it man! That sounds badass.

Goblin Squad Member

Mounts, Vehicles, and Structures :: These things should exist in the world. As such they do not despawn (at least while their owner is logged on, but preferably ever). There is nothing worse for RP than pocket-able horses or houses.

Merchant Locality :: Merchants and Auction Houses should not have cross sellable items. If a merchant has 100 iron, so be it, but why should I be able to buy that iron off a merchant in another town? Likewise for AHs. This will allow traders to buy and sell off merchants (hopefully the herbalist merchant will have no interest in buying iron) and make a living moving the goods from locales of high supply to ones of high demand.

Liberty's Edge

1.) Don't rush production of the game.

2.) Use the PFRPG rules, verbatim. If you don't, use something as close as possible. Every action my character has should not be a power with a cooldown, and cooldown abilities for all characters should be kept to a bare minimum.

3.) Open economy. Meaning I can make transactions with players easily. This allows players to create their own businesses, perhaps under the radar. Try to leave the business making out of the hands of NPCs.

4.) Few NPCs. Have one outpost where there are NPCs. It's up to PCs to create civilization. This also allows PCs to capitalize on lack of certain player needs being met, and can make their own businesses. A player sees something that other players need, that player charges for the service. Get that gold moving around.

5.) One persistent and changeable world. All players are in the same world. Trees can grow back over time, but if I have the manpower and saws, that forest is SOL if I don't want it there. If I want to dig out an underground fortress or mine, I can.

6.) Gritty micromanaging realism. NPCs and PCs must eat and drink to survive. They must sleep. The day should go by at real time. If I put an object in a flowing river, it should be carried by the current. Everything I can carry has a weight (and volume, please don't have inventories of infinite space).

7.) A first person version of Dwarf Fortress crossed with EVE.

8.) Permadeath, or something close to it. Of course, if I cast raise dead on a corpse, it's back to life. If that player gives up that character anyways, it's now an NPC.

9.)Creatable and semi-controllable NPCs. I want to be able to get the equivalent of the Leadership feat, and make a group of NPCs. I want to be able to assign these NPCs to tasks (like building, mining, hunting, patrols, assaults, etc).

10.) As large a world as possible.

EDIT: Also,

11.) Character face and body customization during creation, with as much control and variance as possible.


Is there any rule that MMORPG's have to be pc games? My wish list would have this game on a home console (i.e. Xbox). It would solve the problem about having to find a happy middle for graphic capabilities since all gamers would be running it on the same machine. Online console games shouldn't be limited to FPS!!!

Goblin Squad Member

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Sean Byram wrote:

1.) Don't rush production of the game.

3.) Open economy. Meaning I can make transactions with players easily. This allows players to create their own businesses, perhaps under the radar. Try to leave the business making out of the hands of NPCs.

5.) One persistent and changeable world. All players are in the same world. Trees can grow back over time, but if I have the manpower and saws, that forest is SOL if I don't want it there. If I want to dig out an underground fortress or mine, I can.

6.) Gritty micromanaging realism. NPCs and PCs must eat and drink to survive. They must sleep. The day should go by at real time. If I put an object in a flowing river, it should be carried by the current. Everything I can carry has a weight (and volume, please don't have inventories of infinite space).

10.) As large a world as possible.

+1 I like all of your points, but these especially.


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Sean Byram wrote:

1.) Don't rush production of the game.

2.) Use the PFRPG rules, verbatim. If you don't, use something as close as possible. Every action my character has should not be a power with a cooldown, and cooldown abilities for all characters should be kept to a bare minimum.

3.) Open economy. Meaning I can make transactions with players easily. This allows players to create their own businesses, perhaps under the radar. Try to leave the business making out of the hands of NPCs.

4.) Few NPCs. Have one outpost where there are NPCs. It's up to PCs to create civilization. This also allows PCs to capitalize on lack of certain player needs being met, and can make their own businesses. A player sees something that other players need, that player charges for the service. Get that gold moving around.

5.) One persistent and changeable world. All players are in the same world. Trees can grow back over time, but if I have the manpower and saws, that forest is SOL if I don't want it there. If I want to dig out an underground fortress or mine, I can.

6.) Gritty micromanaging realism. NPCs and PCs must eat and drink to survive. They must sleep. The day should go by at real time. If I put an object in a flowing river, it should be carried by the current. Everything I can carry has a weight (and volume, please don't have inventories of infinite space).

7.) A first person version of Dwarf Fortress crossed with EVE.

8.) Permadeath, or something close to it. Of course, if I cast raise dead on a corpse, it's back to life. If that player gives up that character anyways, it's now an NPC.

9.)Creatable and semi-controllable NPCs. I want to be able to get the equivalent of the Leadership feat, and make a group of NPCs. I want to be able to assign these NPCs to tasks (like building, mining, hunting, patrols, assaults, etc).

10.) As large a world as possible.

I don't think anyone was looking for a list of things that shouldn't be included in any MMO ever.


NoSleep... wrote:
Is there any rule that MMORPG's have to be pc games? ... Online console games shouldn't be limited to FPS!!!

There is a rule. Section 127, Subsection A, Paragraph ix of the XBox console license prohibits developers from designing online multiplayer games that are not first person shooters, though a subclause allows "shooter" to be loosely interpreted so they can have melee and thrown weapons. There are similar restrictions in Playstation 3's contract. The Wii allows other games, but they have to use Mii avatars.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Monster resources.

Far too often in D&D/Pathfinder I see useful monsters going to waste and it bothers me. Bone, flesh, hide, so much of that stuff is usable.

Sure it will require specific skills that the people who make the kill may or may not have, but those resources are valuable to somebody, let people make use of them.

Mmmmm, Minotaur burgers.

I don't think it's cannibalism to eat the horse bits of a centaur.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:
NoSleep... wrote:
Is there any rule that MMORPG's have to be pc games? ... Online console games shouldn't be limited to FPS!!!
There is a rule. Section 127, Subsection A, Paragraph ix of the XBox console license prohibits developers from designing online multiplayer games that are not first person shooters, though a subclause allows "shooter" to be loosely interpreted so they can have melee and thrown weapons. There are similar restrictions in Playstation 3's contract. The Wii allows other games, but they have to use Mii avatars.

That or consoles are horribly unsuited to MMOs as a general rule.

Liberty's Edge

Final Fantasy 11 was an MMO on the 360.

Darwinism, more constructive criticism would be appreciated. What about the things I suggested did you not agree with?


My wishlist? One item.

Make everything that is possible in tabletop Pathfinder possible in PFO.

Done.

Hopefully this would include the ability to create player-run dungeons so you can still have an unpredictable, original, mastercrafted DM experience.


caith wrote:

My wishlist? One item.

Make everything that is possible in tabletop Pathfinder possible in PFO.

Done.

Hopefully this would include the ability to create player-run dungeons so you can still have an unpredictable, original, mastercrafted DM experience.

So... you want to play a Pathfinder campaign in Maptools?


My wishlist is basicly take a look at Neverwinter Nights and then replicate something akin to that with Pathfinder online. Ie my wishes are:

1.) the ablity to host our own servers, like NWN can.
2.) the tool-set similar to what NWN has, this will allow for custom player made content for the players servers.

of course if this is going to be like all the other MMOs and not something akin to NWN, perhaps this is not the game for me; even though I do think doing something in the vein of NWN would be a good thing to do and I doubt I am the only one.

Goblin Squad Member

KitNyx wrote:
Mounts, Vehicles, and Structures :: These things should exist in the world. As such they do not despawn (at least while their owner is logged on, but preferably ever). There is nothing worse for RP than pocket-able horses or houses.

I'm pretty sure that a guy wandering down the road with a national zoo's worth of vanity mounts trailing behind him because he can't despawn them is actually much, much worse for roleplaying.

Goblin Squad Member

Scott Betts wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
Mounts, Vehicles, and Structures :: These things should exist in the world. As such they do not despawn (at least while their owner is logged on, but preferably ever). There is nothing worse for RP than pocket-able horses or houses.
I'm pretty sure that a guy wandering down the road with a national zoo's worth of vanity mounts trailing behind him because he can't despawn them is actually much, much worse for roleplaying.

Then pay a stable owner to hold your animals if you insist on buying so many. Otherwise there is no reason to have more than one. I am not saying anyone cannot have more than one... if so you have to feed them, clean them, shelter them, etc...and you have just become the stable hand. If you cannot care for your mounts they should die or run away (depending upon whether you have them caged or not).

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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The attraction of an MMO (to me) is inversely proportional to the amount of time I must spend adventuring in a group. Not that I don't want to adventure in groups, but I loathe being required to do it. Typically, as a player reaches the top tiers of the game, he is required to team up to accomplish anything. Thus, in my experience, the end game always consists of sitting around spamming the message "Two for Quest X. Need 4 more".

So I'd really like to see support for solo play at all levels.

Second, I have no interest in having to be faster than some twitchy 13-year-old in order to play the game. Combat should be based on my character's abilities, not mine.

Third, being ambushed by other players is a non-starter for me. Uncontrolled and unrestricted PVP is no doubt fascinating to some, but I'll just go play something else.

Fourth, I'd really like to be able to move around in a very large urban environment like Absolam. It should feel huge, not have four streets and a tavern.

Goblin Squad Member

KitNyx wrote:
Then pay a stable owner to hold your animals if you insist on buying so many.

You have thousands of players on each server. Let's say, 10,000 as a conservative figure. If each player has, on average, five mounts, you now need 50,000 stables to hold those mounts. Or are you saying that when you store those mounts in a stable, then they can despawn? Because otherwise, you're going to have a Golarion that is nothing but stables. Enjoy your Horsefinder Online. I promise you'll find horses in it.

Quote:
Otherwise there is no reason to have more than one.

Sure there is. I want ten horses, one of each color/pattern, ten rams, ten chocobo-ish birds, ten large cats, ten dragons, etc.

Quote:
I am not saying anyone cannot have more than one... if so you have to feed them, clean them, shelter them, etc...and you have just become the stable hand. If you cannot care for your mounts they should die or run away (depending upon whether you have them caged or not).

How does this possibly sound like a good idea to you?

Goblin Squad Member

Scott Betts wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
Then pay a stable owner to hold your animals if you insist on buying so many.

You have thousands of players on each server. Let's say, 10,000 as a conservative figure. If each player has, on average, five mounts, you now need 50,000 stables to hold those mounts. Or are you saying that when you store those mounts in a stable, then they can despawn? Because otherwise, you're going to have a Golarion that is nothing but stables. Enjoy your Horsefinder Online. I promise you'll find horses in it.

Quote:
Otherwise there is no reason to have more than one.

Sure there is. I want ten horses, one of each color/pattern, ten rams, ten chocobo-ish birds, ten large cats, ten dragons, etc.

Quote:
I am not saying anyone cannot have more than one... if so you have to feed them, clean them, shelter them, etc...and you have just become the stable hand. If you cannot care for your mounts they should die or run away (depending upon whether you have them caged or not).
How does this possibly sound like a good idea to you?

Sorry, how does your DM let you hold all these mounts? Or as a DM, how do your players hold them?


Video games designed to take into account all that stuff and that try to be like a TTRPG in a different form don't usually hold up too well.

Goblin Squad Member

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KitNyx wrote:
Sorry, how does your DM let you hold all these mounts? Or as a DM, how do your players hold them?

My DM doesn't.

And you'd have a great argument, if Goblinworks were designing a tabletop RPG in MMO form.

But they're not. They're designing an MMO based on the Pathfinder campaign setting.

It's an MMO. People will want to have multiple mounts, because mounts are cool.

Goblin Squad Member

Scott Betts wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
Sorry, how does your DM let you hold all these mounts? Or as a DM, how do your players hold them?

My DM doesn't.

And you'd have a great argument, if Goblinworks were designing a tabletop RPG in MMO form.

But they're not. They're designing an MMO based on the Pathfinder campaign setting.

It's an MMO. People will want to have multiple mounts, because mounts are cool.

Okay...and someone is free to list the ability to have multiple magic mounts, this is the thread for it.

I in turn am going to list what I would like to see, staying as close to the RPG in "realism" as they can...which includes having to account for the things you own. Just so you know how evil my suggestion really is...I also believe in bag-size and encumbrance limits, oh and arrow/ammo counts and limits.


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Sean Byram wrote:

1.) Don't rush production of the game.

No game ever gets enough dev time. This is a rule that only immense, popular studios like Bethesda or Bioware can break. Production will always be done as fast as possible; it's a money sink until release, and devs don't set their own deadlines for release.

Sean Byram wrote:


2.) Use the PFRPG rules, verbatim. If you don't, use something as close as possible. Every action my character has should not be a power with a cooldown, and cooldown abilities for all characters should be kept to a bare minimum.

Impossible by the OGL and a terrible idea besides; D&D is a turn-based game at its heart. Turn-based games do not translate very well to real-time. Nor are many of PF's mechanics friendly at all to a real-time environment. There will be a great many compromises and the system will look like Golarion, but it will not, can not, and should not use 3.5 rules.

Sean Byram wrote:


3.) Open economy. Meaning I can make transactions with players easily. This allows players to create their own businesses, perhaps under the radar. Try to leave the business making out of the hands of NPCs.

To a degree this is good, but there have to be NPC vendors.

Sean Byram wrote:


4.) Few NPCs. Have one outpost where there are NPCs. It's up to PCs to create civilization. This also allows PCs to capitalize on lack of certain player needs being met, and can make their own businesses. A player sees something that other players need, that player charges for the service. Get that gold moving around.

This is an absolutely terrible idea that would lead to very, very spotty coverage in any market and a top-heavy economy because that's where the actual money will be.

Sean Byram wrote:


5.) One persistent and changeable world. All players are in the same world. Trees can grow back over time, but if I have the manpower and saws, that forest is SOL if I don't want it there. If I want to dig out an underground fortress or mine, I can.

Look at Wurm Online for why this is a bad idea; it's easy for a vindictive group of players to ruin an area permanently. A lot of people, given the chance, will act like complete dicks in games like this. And before you trot out, "But then people will band together to stop them," you should remember that this is going to be a 24-hour-game. There is no stopping organized griefing if your system allows it.

Sean Byram wrote:


6.) Gritty micromanaging realism. NPCs and PCs must eat and drink to survive. They must sleep. The day should go by at real time. If I put an object in a flowing river, it should be carried by the current. Everything I can carry has a weight (and volume, please don't have inventories of infinite space).

God, no. I deal with having to sleep and eat and crap in real life. I don't play games so I can repeat the trivial steps of real life. This is not Real Life: The Game. This is elf wizards flying around shooting dragons with lightning.

Sean Byram wrote:


7.) A first person version of Dwarf Fortress crossed with EVE.

No. Reality simulation is a horrible goal because it will always be spotty and incomplete. Not to mention horribly hard to code; what kind of dream team of programmers do you expect Paizo to have to code reality in a 3D medium and not go over their deadlines?

Sean Byram wrote:


8.) Permadeath, or something close to it. Of course, if I cast raise dead on a corpse, it's back to life. If that player gives up that character anyways, it's now an NPC.

God, no. Again, this is a MMO. Death will happen. Don't play punitive games with people about something that can happen from something as silly as losing connection for 30 seconds. It works, somewhat, in 3.5 because of the expectation that it should work the way it does, but 3.5 is not built as an MMO and certain conventions must be left at the door.

Sean Byram wrote:


9.)Creatable and semi-controllable NPCs. I want to be able to get the equivalent of the Leadership feat, and make a group of NPCs. I want to be able to assign these NPCs to tasks (like building, mining, hunting, patrols, assaults, etc).

This could be fun, if done properly.

Sean Byram wrote:


10.) As large a world as possible.

No, no, no. As large a world as you have content for. It's incredibly possible to make it like Oblivion and have a hundred square miles of wolves and bears running at you, but no area should be made unless content to make it interesting is made as well, or it's entirely pointless padding.

Sean Byram wrote:
11.) Character face and body customization during creation, with as much control and variance as possible.

This can easily lead to problems; it's infinitely harder to make a model and texture that looks good on Beef McLargeHuge and Chubbs the Lardo.

To state my point clearly, laying even more difficult tasks on top of the hugely insane already MMO development sounds good if you're not in any way aware of the trials that developers go through to get a game released on schedule. You have to have realistic expectations of what can and cannot be done.


No need to get personal, Kit. The sad fact that is that not everyone shares your view on this, and I honestly think the game wouldn't work too well that way, judging merely from experience.

Goblin Squad Member

Icyshadow wrote:
No need to get personal, Kit. The sad fact that is that not everyone shares your view on this, and I honestly think the game wouldn't work too well that way, judging merely from experience.

I did not realize I got personal, I thought I was being logical. That said, this is two threads I am evidently pissing people off in...sorry guys, have fun...


I only got the impression from the "show how evil I am" part of your earlier post. Don't take it the wrong way, it's just that nobody's getting into a real agreement here. Actually, I am sort of starting to wonder why anyone bothers arguing over this since we can't directly change the stuff we don't like until the actual game is running.

Goblin Squad Member

KitNyx wrote:
Okay...and someone is free to list the ability to have multiple magic mounts, this is the thread for it.

I don't think anyone needs to suggest it. I'd be flabbergasted if it weren't eventually part of the game.

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I in turn am going to list what I would like to see, staying as close to the RPG in "realism" as they can...which includes having to account for the things you own. Just so you know how evil my suggestion really is...I also believe in bag-size and encumbrance limits, oh and arrow/ammo counts and limits.

This sort of realism is barely tolerated in tabletop roleplaying games.

But I'm almost positive you will see bag-size limitations (given the F2P+MTX nature of the game, they'd be stupid not to limit bag size and then offer upgrades for a price), I'd say there's a 50/50 chance of you needing to buy ammunition regularly, and I'd wager a 15-20% chance that weight limits make it into the game.

Goblin Squad Member

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Darwinism wrote:
No game ever gets enough dev time. This is a rule that only immense, popular studios like Bethesda or Bioware can break. Production will always be done as fast as possible; it's a money sink until release, and devs don't set their own deadlines for release.

I don't want to dig into an otherwise spot-on post, but it's worth noting that indie devs do set their own deadlines for release. I haven't heard anything about Goblinworks seeking a publisher. They might be mimicking EVE in this respect, as well.

Granted, they still need to have realistic goals and a schedule that gets the project done before the development capital runs dry, but they won't have an outside organization imposing deadlines based on a publisher's release schedule.


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1) Meaningful high charisma playable characters - City founders, lords

2) Non quest advancements for who wants to be but a Hero

3) Players created content/NPC - you can be a city builder, or a dungeon builder

These are for who can't play huge amounts of time and still be able to play in a significant way


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Planar Quest spell/ritual that requires gathering rare components, multiple highly skilled characters to complete and can be used once per period of time (maybe week, maybe month). Upon casting transports the party to a randomly-created pocket plane where they fight their way through throngs of outsiders and gather extraplanar components and rare planar items.

Goblin Squad Member

Darwinism wrote:


6.) Gritty micromanaging realism. NPCs and PCs must eat and drink to survive. They must sleep. The day should go by at real time. If I put an object in a flowing river, it should be carried by the current. Everything I can carry has a weight (and volume, please don't have inventories of infinite space).

10.) As large a world as possible.

I'm going to "escape" to this game, so I don't want my chars to have to do all the mundane things of real life.

Large worlds are fantastic to explore - but give me swift travel. I don't play but a few hours per week - I don't have the time to run or even ride long distances.

The Exchange

Immersive World
Would like to see a realistic world where you can act freely without restrictions. Free in the sense of innovative forms of interaction with the world. Thievery anyone (skill challenge: target versus thief), climb anything, improved and complex crafting, pet, Eating, Sleeping, Farming, Breeding animals, fishing, hunting...

Government Structure
With a government structure interpreted by the players (judges, politicians and army). That would make a wonderful immersion. Imagine if a character kills another (PvP) and there were witnesses to the crime, would have to open an investigation into the crime and circumstances.

Death Persistent
It would be fun to see the monster rotting day by day ... I know there may be server overload and spoil the fun, but there was one more reason to work on character evolution. To protect low-level characters would PvP cities guarded by soldiers.


So I see that people from Goblinworks are actually listening to the things being said in this topic.

That is an automatic +5 modifier to my "Respect" stat.

Since this is the case, I will say some more things than just my last post (though I stand by it!)

So, aside from the roleplay server, here's what I suggest to Goblinworks.

Forget everything every other MMO has ever done. Treat this game like it's the first ever MMO and not for a single moment look to any of the others. I have grown incredibly sick of all those clones out there that bring absolutely NOTHING new to the table bar a different skin. And while I am at it... Honestly, how those people have the audacity to label their games as MMORPGs is beyond me. There is zero role playing going on in most of them.

If you want this game to feel like Pathfinder, make it so that you can do pretty much the same things a player can do in the tabletop version of Pathfinder... which is quite a lot. Give players the opportunity to do anything they like, and not just grinding Dire Wolves for EXP.

Honestly, the only MMORPG I ever truly enjoyed was a pure RP server for Ultima Online. One of my most memorable scenes was when I was playing a young orphaned drunk that was disturbing the peace during an important ceremony by bathing in the fountain naked, after which he was thrown into jail. When later I was abducted by a cult of Blood Mages who suspected I knew something about an enemy of theirs, my character went insane and nobody believed him because he was usually drunk. A friendly passerby even gave me some money for some new clothes. Not a single monster was slain. All of this was player and moderator interaction. None of this was scripted.

Not suggesting you copy that, it's quite a niche audience that enjoys it but I suspect you didn't choose the Pathfinder license to make "WoW Golarion Edition".

It is my understanding there will be kingdom building involved. Good tidings indeed! But take that to the next level. Give people the opportunity to make it to the top of the ladder and become king. Perhaps introduce a system where whoever makes it to become a king also has NPC guards under his command so that people who won't accept other players as their king can actually be apprehended or something.

Give other people the opportunity to be a vital part of the kingdom. Give other players who want to make it as guard captains privileges as well. Give people who want to be entrepeneurs buildings and blacksmith/baker/item shop owner/etc. NPCs, because I am pretty sure they don't want to be doing all the selling themselves.

In fact, let those be the only NPCs present in the game world. Let the players create the story. In most MMOs players aren't really a part of the world. They are merely spectators, puppets doing whatever NPCs tell them to do, without anything ever having any impact on the gameworld whatsoever. Hey, defeat this evil wizard you killed 10 times already because this group wants you to tank for them... Guhh... And slaying a million Dire Wolves does NOTHING to their population. You would think they'd be extinct after a while.

I still stand by my previous comment of a forced name generator. We didn't get to pick our own names, so why should our characters? And that nonsense about unique names... Come on! I went to school with two other Daniels. I didn't get an error message saying the name was taken already. Usernames can be unique, but let player names be available at all times. Just prohibit names like Sephiroth or Squall, and we'll be fine. And if you happen to have the same last name as another player, let those characters be family. And if you hate the other guy, there is some good grounds for some hefty RPing!

I hope my suggestions bring you some food for thought.

Goblin Squad Member

Daniel36 wrote:
Forget everything every other MMO has ever done.

No, please don't.

Quote:
Treat this game like it's the first ever MMO and not for a single moment look to any of the others.

Yes, let's make the mistakes of fifteen years ago because we slapped blinders on our heads, shall we?

Quote:
I have grown incredibly sick of all those clones out there that bring absolutely NOTHING new to the table bar a different skin.

Then you aren't paying attention to the current MMO market.

Quote:
And while I am at it... Honestly, how those people have the audacity to label their games as MMORPGs is beyond me. There is zero role playing going on in most of them.

You don't get to define what is and isn't roleplaying. The real audacity, here, is that you believe you do.

Quote:
If you want this game to feel like Pathfinder, make it so that you can do pretty much the same things a player can do in the tabletop version of Pathfinder... which is quite a lot.

The game is supposed to feel like the Pathfinder campaign setting. Not the tabletop game on a computer screen.

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I still stand by my previous comment of a forced name generator. We didn't get to pick our own names, so why should our characters?

Because it's fun to pick your own character's name.

Please don't go into game design.

Quote:
And that nonsense about unique names... Come on! I went to school with two other Daniels. I didn't get an error message saying the name was taken already. Usernames can be unique, but let player names be available at all times.

Nope. This would make in-game communication (via things like /whisper) either impossible or needlessly complex.

Quote:
Just prohibit names like Sephiroth or Squall, and we'll be fine.

Why? Because you have a deep-seated animosity towards certain games, or feel that anything inspired by those games has no place in the game you're playing?

Elitist drivel.


I wish MMO's would die a quick death.

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