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Goblin Squad Member

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SuperSlayer wrote:
I wish MMO's would die a quick death.

Yay! Let's all wish for the death of something millions of people enjoy just because we personally don't find them enjoyable! It'll be fun!

Oooh, I wish all soap operas would die a quick death! Do I get to be edgy and non-mainstream now, too?


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Hey Scott, just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you have to call me an elitist driveler, especially when you reply to everything I say like an elitist yourself. You're being unnecesarily unfriendly.

I don't have a deep seated hatred towards FF, I love those games. I just don't like to run into Sephiroth666 because people are too lazy to come up with something more interesting. Just my opinion. But that's the only point I am going to reply to, because honestly it isn't worth entering a discussion with you.

Instead I am going to add a bit to my personal wishlist that perhaps Goblinworks will get some inspiration from.

I was thinking some more about things, and with combat, the thing that bugs me about many games is how they think excitement comes from large numbers. A giant spider is awesome if you run into one in the wild and have to fight for your life if it spots you. Not so awesome when there are 50 running around and you just go about hopping from one to the next, every now and then seeing another one spawn just for you to repeat the process.

And with things like dragons, it's way cooler when they appear somewhere in the sky all of a sudden, not some pre-determined spawn place.

Goblin Squad Member

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Daniel36 wrote:
Hey Scott, just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you have to call me an elitist driveler,

No, it doesn't.

And I didn't call you an "elitist driveler." I called what you said elitist drivel.

Because it was.

Next time, don't post elitist drivel. You won't run into this issue.

Quote:
especially when you reply to everything I say like an elitist yourself.

I'm sorry you choose to see it that way.

Quote:
You're being unnecesarily unfriendly.

I'm certainly not falling over myself to be civil towards you.

Quote:
I don't have a deep seated hatred towards FF, I love those games. I just don't like to run into Sephiroth666 because people are too lazy to come up with something more interesting.

Ahh, okay, so you hate people who want to enjoy their game as a relaxing, casual experience where they don't have to worry about being called "lazy," then.

To illustrate my point: you have singled out the names "Sephiroth" and "Squall."

Those two names come from Final Fantasy video games. Video games are, of course, a source of creative inspiration (some less so, some more so). It stands to reason that an individual might like a name from a video game, and may want to style a character after that name (or even the character is belongs to).

In your ideal game, they can't do that, because you've said they can't, because you don't like those names in your game. Imagine, however, if someone liked the name "Varian." That's a fantasy name, shared by both King Varian Wrynn of Stormwind (from the Warcraft universe), and Count Varian Jeggare of the Pathfinder novel line. Would that name be allowed? You'd have to say no, in order to be consistent - otherwise you are arbitrarily disallowing names based on personal preference, and that's no way to moderate a game. But what if someone wasn't familiar with either of those characters, and just thought "Varian" sounded like a cool name? Now they can't use it. What if someone thought "Squall" would be a cool name for her Air-domain wizard? Nope, disallowed.

In trying to curb what you consider silly names that have no place in your game, you have also prevented players from using their favored name for their own characters - players who are every bit as important as you.

Is this clear enough?

Quote:
Just my opinion. But that's the only point I am going to reply to, because honestly it isn't worth entering a discussion with you.

Too late.


Scott Betts wrote:
Daniel36 wrote:
Just prohibit names like Sephiroth or Squall, and we'll be fine.

Why? Because you have a deep-seated animosity towards certain games, or feel that anything inspired by those games has no place in the game you're playing?

Elitist drivel.

Clearly he doesn't like names that start with an S. There are a lot of characters in that series more prominent than Squall :P


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Daniel36 wrote:
Hey Scott, just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you have to call me an elitist driveler, especially when you reply to everything I say like an elitist yourself. You're being unnecesarily unfriendly.

You're not that thin-skinned, surely?

Also your ideas are really bad.

Goblin Squad Member

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No radar, no ingame auto map!

Really, this kills immersion more than anything else. I think a sandbox game needs a big world, so the small zones of themepark MMOs will hopefully not happen.

But radar+ingame map means I do not have to even look at the world, let alone familiarize with it. I simply run in the direction that the friggin arrow points on my map and spot the quest on the radar to be done with it asap...

Yeah, that might be retro, but the first games didn't have these features and played rather well without them.


Brutal honesty is brutal.


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While I agree that radar (complete with pointer arrow and red/blue blips for other creatures) would be problematic, I'm having a hard time not seeing the benefit of a map that lets you get a general vibe of the terrain beyond your immediate line of sight and figure out where you want to explore without constantly walking into dead ends.

Goblin Squad Member

ulgulanoth wrote:
crafting wise what would be awsome would be to be able to make custome things by using different ingredients and prossess, have sliders, so if you make a sword, you will know its your sword, it has that orange jewel in the middle and swirls, so not complicated per se, but more advanced than "you make sword +1"

Or you could have this based upon the type and quality of the materials used. For instance, if a recipe called for wood, each type of wood would have different characteristics. This would make different wood have different optimal uses. Additionally, your Profession: Woodcutter skill would determine the quality of pieces you would be able to gather from raw wood. Higher quality wood will have stats boosted compared to "normal" pieces.

Crafters would be able to test and develop different recipes for different uses and the best crafters would be known for their recipes which they would probably guard jealously.

(As an example, a bolt crafter might design a bolt that is heavy, great for damage, bad for range...another might prefer the opposite, a light long range bolt that does less damage. It will all be based upon their customers needs and desires.)

Goblin Squad Member

kyrt-ryder wrote:
While I agree that radar (complete with pointer arrow and red/blue blips for other creatures) would be problematic, I'm having a hard time not seeing the benefit of a map that lets you get a general vibe of the terrain beyond your immediate line of sight and figure out where you want to explore without constantly walking into dead ends.

How about a "sketch pad" to go with your info "cards" on other characters? This sketch pad will let you make a map of the land you have explored...you could even trade selected parts of it.

Oh, and not count ammo? Well there goes the demand for fletchers. Likewise, there goes demand for feathers, some demand for wood, and demand for arrow heads; all things that would have been craftable and contribute to a player economy. Why bother having consumables? Having to buy new potions takes away my "fun"...why not let me by one everlasting potion that actually represents me having as many as I need?

Goblin Squad Member

Local Chat Only :: I would like to see chat available for /around, /yell, and /emote. If you want to have some form of telepathy that would be /region, /universe, /trade, and even /guild, then introduce some form of telepathy magic item...how about a pretty tiara...

Difficult Mastery :: This reiterates a point someone made earlier about leaving the crafting to those who really WANT to craft. I hope all professions are left to those who really WANT to do them by making them difficult and time consuming. It should take a VERY long time to master a profession. I am not saying it should take a long time to become adequate in a profession, only to master it...which would be required to make the best items or harvest the best materials.


KitNyx wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
While I agree that radar (complete with pointer arrow and red/blue blips for other creatures) would be problematic, I'm having a hard time not seeing the benefit of a map that lets you get a general vibe of the terrain beyond your immediate line of sight and figure out where you want to explore without constantly walking into dead ends.
How about a "sketch pad" to go with your info "cards" on other characters? This sketch pad will let you make a map of the land you have explored...you could even trade selected parts of it.

I SUCK at drawing/sketching of any kind, as do many others, so I don't think that's a solution.

However, the idea of having a personal map that only fills out based on the Maps your character has purchased and the terrain he has directly explored sounds like an interesting idea.

To build on that, another skill within the explorer profession could be cartography, the character drawing maps for sale (along with notes on the flora, fauna, indigenous peoples/monsters, etc.)

Goblin Squad Member

I have no idea if this would be possible, or even make sense, but since the idea has sort of been brought up before, I'd thought I'd expand on it:

It would be frackin spectacular if somehow, some way, the things we did in the online world got reflected in the table top game.

Obviously, only the major things would be applicable, but I think this would be really awesome if possible.

However, I understand the need for a sort of "frozen" timeline, and thus this may not be realistic, but since this is a wish list thread, I thought I'd toss the idea out.

Goblin Squad Member

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MicMan wrote:

No radar, no ingame auto map!

Really, this kills immersion more than anything else. I think a sandbox game needs a big world, so the small zones of themepark MMOs will hopefully not happen.

But radar+ingame map means I do not have to even look at the world, let alone familiarize with it. I simply run in the direction that the friggin arrow points on my map and spot the quest on the radar to be done with it asap...

Yeah, that might be retro, but the first games didn't have these features and played rather well without them.

Can we please stop calling for the removal of features that are expected in MMOs for the sake of convenience? It's not going to happen. There will be an in-game map, and an in-game compass. And maybe even in-game quest arrows.

Goblin Squad Member

Monkeygod wrote:

I have no idea if this would be possible, or even make sense, but since the idea has sort of been brought up before, I'd thought I'd expand on it:

It would be frackin spectacular if somehow, some way, the things we did in the online world got reflected in the table top game.

Obviously, only the major things would be applicable, but I think this would be really awesome if possible.

However, I understand the need for a sort of "frozen" timeline, and thus this may not be realistic, but since this is a wish list thread, I thought I'd toss the idea out.

I believe the dev team (such as it is) have already stated their goal of keeping the PFO timeline and the Pathfinder tabletop timeline separate. The events in the game won't affect the tabletop world.


Scott Betts wrote:

Can we please stop calling for the removal of features that are expected in MMOs for the sake of convenience? It's not going to happen. There will be an in-game map, and an in-game compass. And maybe even in-game quest arrows.

This bears repeating and re-repeating; MMOs are not about verisimilitude and immersion. Hell, D&D isn't even about them; it's primarily a combat simulation engine that a very large number of people attach roleplay to, but roleplay is in no way integral to the system. The problem is that no MMO is going to match an imagination, because the limit's going to be what people can program. Much like how D&D rules only ape physics, because trying to actually put realistic physics into the game would be incredibly time consuming for little real gain over quick estimations.

If you expect PFO to be a TTRPG, you will be sorely disappointed, because it is not and can not be a TTRPG.


Scott Betts wrote:


Imagine, however, if someone liked the name "Varian." That's a fantasy name, shared by both King Varian Wrynn of Stormwind (from the Warcraft universe), and Count Varian Jeggare of the Pathfinder novel line. Would that name be allowed? You'd have to say no, in order to be consistent - otherwise you are arbitrarily disallowing names based on personal preference, and that's no way to moderate a game. But what if someone wasn't familiar with either of those characters, and just thought "Varian" sounded like a cool name? Now they can't use it. What if someone thought...

Well, fine, you have a point. But let me then re-choose examples of names I would like singled out then. "Septhiroth666", "Squall94", "VariantehAwesome", stuff like that. But you already knew exactly what I meant, you just like to get on other people's cases. :) Which is fine by me too.

But hey, this is a wish-list thread, right? I can wish all I want, for things both realistic and unrealistic. But please, don't shoot down other people's wishes just because they don't fit in YOUR ideal MMO either, because you are doing pretty much the same I was doing.


Daniel36 wrote:


Well, fine, you have a point. But let me then re-choose examples of names I would like singled out then. "Septhiroth666", "Squall94", "VariantehAwesome", stuff like that. But you already knew exactly what I meant, you just like to get on other people's cases. :) Which is fine by me too.

But hey, this is a wish-list thread, right? I can wish all I want, for things both realistic and unrealistic. But please, don't shoot down other people's wishes just because they don't fit in YOUR ideal MMO either, because you are doing pretty much the same I was doing.

The criticism is apt, though, and restricting naming conventions broadly is just a bad idea. On RP servers, to be sure, you have guidelines and rules, but in general play there shouldn't be restrictions on names simply because you or I think they look silly. Don't tell people they're having fun wrong unless they've already agreed to have fun in a certain way; IE by creating a character on a RP server and being told that there are rules regarding names.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I want to restate some ideas that others have had that I agree with first.

Purplefixer wrote:

Wishlist:

Make them stored client side, they don't have any game effects, and let the bards play them on demand and be able to trade them... These things would make this game INCREDIBLY long lived.
Delzoon wrote:

My Wish List:

3 - Solo content - at times I don't want to deal with real people - let me get experience without grouping up.

5 - Shipbuilding / sea travel: Can you imagine how cool it would be to spend time gathering materials to build a ship and eventually sail it across a river or bay? Even better - let a char call the ship his / her home and place housing objects in it. Harbors, paying for slips, hauling goods, etc...

6 - Let us place crafting faclities in our housing - or place a certain type of crafting shed behind our main house in the yard. Very cool.

Gio wrote:


2. LANGUAGES
Make the Angel talk in abyssal, the Darkfolk in Undercommon, etc... Each player should know a certain amount of languages just like one would in the PnP version, he should have the ability to trigger a translator for when he writes (so whatever he writes is automatically translated to say elven when he presses enter). The reverse method should also be available, whenever, someone else talks in another language a character knows, or maybe a book written in said language, the trigger buttom should inform the character the message i written in said language, and that he can translate it.

3. Character Customization to the max
Every player should have the ability to make unique characters, looks, skills, spells, feats, abilities, ability scores, even elemental specialization,...

4. Many Skills, Many Spells, Many Feats, Many Special Abilities
Do not reduce the amount of option available, the stuff from the PnP is great for character customization, and classification within ability types

Personally I have always liked games where your have more character creation options. There can never be enough character creation options.

If the game is going to be called Pathfinder Online it should be as close to not only the game mechanics of Pathfinder but the setting of Golarion as well. Also updates as new Pathfinder materials become available.

I want familiars!

I would like to be able to make unique items - big or small.

The ability to customize our views and turn features on and off.

Keyboard shortcuts over a lot of mouse work.

Being able to steal like in fable, it was my faverite part of the game.

Quick travel for those who want it with the option of slower travel for those that don't.

As a final note - I am not fond of Player vs Player but I understand that there are some people who do.

Andoran

I have no expectations for this game, other than it being an MMO based on Pathfinder. Projects can change direction very easily. I'm also aware of the difficulties facing a development team and I sympathize. The list I gave was a wish list. There are two MMOs that I play, and I wouldn't say I'm very "into" them. They're just my favorites among many others that I care absolutely nothing for. EVE and Shores of Hazeron.

Mainly, I hope to see a truly sandbox experience of an MMO, done with Pathfinder flavor. That would make me happy, though there are additions that could obviously make me happier.

A blank slate is what I'm looking for. I do not believe NPCs are incredibly necessary, as is perhaps evidenced by my MMO choice. Empty wilderness suits me fine. "Content" is replaced with a canvas and a toolset that allows me to paint a small part of a larger picture. I'll fill in what gaps I think need to be filled in myself. Others can do the same.

As far as game mechanics, I'm aware that turn-based is not the way to go. I think Pathfinder's mechanics can be converted to real-time. And if not, that's fine. I simply don't want a "power-based" mechanic, where I have cooldown abilities. I want spell slots, prepared spells (for appropriate caster classes), spells known, spell research, skills, an option for first person, and as few invisible walls as humanly possible.

There are things that I want for this game that I'm almost certain NO ONE else wants, and I did not list those things for sake of manners. I think that what I posted has flaws and you made some good points, but I also believe that I'd like the game more with those things and that they are within the capabilities of the developers.

Goblin Squad Member

Daniel36 wrote:
Well, fine, you have a point. But let me then re-choose examples of names I would like singled out then. "Septhiroth666", "Squall94", "VariantehAwesome", stuff like that. But you already knew exactly what I meant, you just like to get on other people's cases. :)

How would I know exactly what you meant when you're in the process of moving your own goalposts?

Look, restricting names based on a "These names are dumb!" policy is not a good tack to take. If you have RP-enforced servers, fine, the GMs will have to make judgment calls on a case-by-case basis. But for the rest of the servers, you should have a non-arbitrary naming convention policy similar to those used by other MMOs.

Quote:
But hey, this is a wish-list thread, right? I can wish all I want, for things both realistic and unrealistic. But please, don't shoot down other people's wishes just because they don't fit in YOUR ideal MMO either, because you are doing pretty much the same I was doing.

I'm not shooting down other people's wishes just because they don't fit in my ideal MMO. I'm shooting them down because they're poorly-conceived ideas. I know it's tempting to accuse me of some self-interested motivation in this criticism, because it would undermine the legitimacy of that criticism if it were true, but I'm coming from a position of supporting features that would make the game successful. I mean, after all, forcing everyone to have good names would make the overall play experience better for me.

Goblin Squad Member

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Darwinism wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:

Can we please stop calling for the removal of features that are expected in MMOs for the sake of convenience? It's not going to happen. There will be an in-game map, and an in-game compass. And maybe even in-game quest arrows.
This bears repeating and re-repeating; MMOs are not about verisimilitude and immersion.

MMOs are about whatever the devs want to make them about. They are designing the world and the mechanics to focus on whatever they wish the focus to be. This goes for "features" that are expected in games...which is why those of use who do not want the "features" are asking for them to not be present. We are just offering our wishlist, the devs can take or leave what they want.

And yes SB, I know you think the devs will not do as we/I ask because "it will not work that way" and it is "bad", but if you feel the need to tell us/me again, go for it.

Goblin Squad Member

KitNyx wrote:
And yes SB, I know you think the devs will not do as we/I ask because "it will not work that way" and it is "bad", but if you feel the need to tell us/me again, go for it.

I'm simply suggesting that maybe you could focus your efforts of pushing ideas that the devs might actually take something away from rather than ideas that are the practical equivalent of "Oh, and can you make it so that every player is Supreme Emperor of the Galaxy?"

This is going to be a Pathfinder MMO. That's huge. Why aren't we discussing what aspects of the Pathfinder universe we want to see in the game?

Goblin Squad Member

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Scott Betts wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
And yes SB, I know you think the devs will not do as we/I ask because "it will not work that way" and it is "bad", but if you feel the need to tell us/me again, go for it.

I'm simply suggesting that maybe you could focus your efforts of pushing ideas that the devs might actually take something away from rather than ideas that are the practical equivalent of "Oh, and can you make it so that every player is Supreme Emperor of the Galaxy?"

This is going to be a Pathfinder MMO. That's huge. Why aren't we discussing what aspects of the Pathfinder universe we want to see in the game?

Because I am more interested in discussing mechanics that I feel would make the game better* than what is available now AND contribute more to the RPG origins of the game. You are welcome to start a thread about whatever you like and I will contribute if I have something constructive to say. I am sure the discussion will move to higher level content once the game design progresses beyond mechanics.

better* = better in my opinion, which as you have pointed out many times is less than your opinion, but it is all I have.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. We're reading through everything right now. To be honest, we won't be able to give full attention to these ideas until we are getting started with production. But we're going to hold a pointer to this thread, and make sure all the designers read it.

What would be really useful for us is if we keep the thread focused on specific requests and justifications for those. Back and forth arguments are definitely good too, because we can see that other players have a different opinion. But if they drag on for a bit, please consider moving them to their own thread and we can keep this one clear as a good master list.

Thanks!


ulgulanoth wrote:

...Well that’s my wish list, what are yours?

I think that alignments don't work very well in an MMO setting. It might be better to tie alignment-related stuff to factions/reputation instead, but even if you do go with the classic D&D alignment system for Pathfinder Online, you can't control PCs' behavior. Some people will act Chaotic Evil even when their character sheet says they're Lawful Good. Without a tabletop-style GM to referee, there's nothing to prevent it.

My own personal wish list:

A game that allows Enchantment specialist wizards (the Manipulator and Controller archetypes as well) and actually handles mind-control well. Less World of Warcraft's priest ability Mind Control and more EverQuest enchanters' Charm. A Confusion effect less like RIFT's confusion effects and more like PnP's confusion, where affected creatures will attack their own allies or even themselves on occasion.

A way to effectively not participate in nonconsensual PvP--whether you segregate things into PvE and PvP servers or only have one server in the style of Eve Online.

Assuming you DO have multiple servers, RP servers. Please. And actively enforced naming conventions for them. There is nothing more immersion-breaking than walking past someone named Wheresthebeef. If you do make an RP-PvP server ruleset, please enforce the RP aspect of it as well--I've played for 7 years on RPPvP servers in WoW and was on a PvE-RP server in RIFT. The longer those servers are open, the less "RP" they are and the more "PvP."

Enough of the "theme park" aspect to this "hybrid sandbox/theme park" MMO to avoid the immense boredom that was Ultima Online's sandbox gameplay. That means quests and storylines. (World of Warcraft and UO are the only two MMOs I've played for more than a month at a stretch, and in UO's case it was entirely because of the guild I had migrated from the old AOL Neverwinter Nights MMO with--NOT because UO is a good game.)

No serious penalty for "dying." If you think that WoW-style death systems break the immersion of the world, follow LotRO's lead and have characters automatically retreat--do not make it permadeath.

On a visual note, import the art style of PFRPG products (Wayne Reynolds, Carolina Eade, etc.) into the game. WoW's graphics take liberties with reality and come across as slightly cartoony--this is a strength. When you compare EQ2's "realistic" 3d graphics and WoW's "cartoony" 3d graphics, WoW has aged significantly better (despite coming out at roughly the same time) because it has not tried to be too realistic. The ability of computers to render increases significantly over time, and if you try to go for too much 'realism' in your graphics, it makes the graphics' age much more obvious, since it looks less 'real' than the newest renders.

CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION. Multiple hairstyles, dances, animated/voiced emotes, hair colors, eye colors, piercings, tattoos, etc. per race and sex. In a similar vein, I do not want to have to worry about losing my clothing or gear when I die. And it would be nice to be able to strip my character down to his or her underwear. I can't imagine you guys would willingly make PFO a Mature rated game for the sake of nudity like Age of Conan, but at least give the characters a bit more sex appeal than DDO or NWN2's models (my personal preference would be a bit more like WoW). If, for whatever reason, my character is undressed--it should look like it.

Also, a third-person floating camera. I like to be able to look around and feel immersed in the world, while still being able to see what's going on around me--I also like taking screenshots of my own characters from various angles. It's hard to do this with a first-person view OR an isometric point of view.

Instanced content is a good thing. I do not recall Ultima Online's uninstanced dungeons fondly, even post-Trammel/Felucca split. There were always too much of a concentration of people there competing for the kills and resources found within. "Tagging" mobs is a good thing--it means that I do not have to run up from range to avoid having someone steal whatever is on the corpse of what I just killed. Likewise, Public Quests (as in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning and RIFT) are a good way to reward participation without forcing artificial grouping or limiting the reward to one or two lucky individuals who roll well on whatever drops when the critter dies.


Also! Let characters have surnames or names that include apostrophes or spaces. If you're going to restrict a server so that only one character can have a given name, make it work off of the character's first AND last names.

Andoran

On the topic of alignments, I think it's a possible way to control PvP. As a very general and brief description of what I mean, if you're chaotic evil, you have the freedom to attack anybody. Guards at town gates might have detect alignment items and will keep out evil characters. If you're good, you can only attack someone who's attacked you first. If you're a paladin, maybe you can attack evil characters without provocation.

It might take some work balancing out the various options, and I don't even know if I think it's a good idea. But it's definitely worth thinking about, however briefly.

Goblin Squad Member

tech: game that doesn't crash when alt-tabbing, when anti-virus programs spam an alert, when someone calls you on skype etc.

content: alignments, changeable through actions and with effects far beyond the cosmetic.


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More reactive mobs.

I can't stand that the orc on the other side of the road will just stand there and watch while I slaughter his cousin Bob because I'm just outside his aggro range.

Yes, this means safely pulling will pretty much be a thing of the past. And before everyone chimes in about this killing soloing, I'm someone who generally soloed in MMOs. It just means treating every Line of Sight aggro mob as a single encounter (unless you can do crowd control). It means you're not soloing those 5 level 7 orcs at 7th level, and maybe just barely at 12th.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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First, let me say, that even though this thread has deviated from the topic at times, I greatly appreciate the spirit of its aims.

I myself, have never truly been a fan of the MMORPG genre, and while I'd prefer a Pathfinder game (be it on or offline) more akin to Diablo or Dragon Age, it's great that we can focus on contributing opinions (which we can hope will be thoughtfully considered) to help the designers and developers make a game that may end up attracting gamers, like myself, whose own experiences with MMOs have been tedious at best.

I like to believe that the Pathfinder RPG's considerable success is due in some part to the feedback of its players and that the gaming community has helped to direct the course of the game's content by the expression of our wishes, concerns, and experiences. So, should Goblinworks adopt the same philosophy of dutiful attention to its gamers as Paizo has, then I think we can feel optimistic about the future of Pathfinder Online.

So, on to my wish list then:

1) Though the game has been described/discussed as being strongly sandbox with elements of theme park, I'd like to see adventuring as a profession. Let the players who decide to go on quests explore regions outside of the River Kingdoms and have experiences that are unique to being a professional adventurer. By acquiring gold, artifacts, or rare crafting materials that can only be obtained through journeys ("instances") to Osirion, Cheliax, or the Ustalav, they can come back to the main settlements, sell their spoils and let the PvPers and sandbox players worry about the economy and rival guilds. Me? I'd like to explore Golarion with the River Kingdoms as my home base.

I know it may seem like a lot, but if journeys beyond the River Kingdoms are done as instances, it shouldn't be too much strain on the servers and would provide a play experiences for those who want to PvE and play, I dunno, an adventurer. ;)

2) Let's face it: most gamers don't want to play a character who is, to be colloquial, totes fuggers. There's a bevy of games out there already where your character creation options for appearance are 1) hideous and 2) even more hideous (unless you're playing a female and your choices are hot chick or hotter chick). And that's after every conceivable combination of features. Attractive character appearances would be greatly appreciated. It may be vain, but it's a courtesy to other players when looking at your character isn't like beholding the Ark of the Covenant. I'm not alone in this, right. RIGHT?!

3) I'm also very interested in seeing a more action-oriented combat system. I know that while it may not be for everyone and would certainly break the mold of current MMOs (hmm, that sounds vaguely familiar to a certain design statement...), I'm personally tired of boring MMO combat where success in the one-click-auto-attack encounter is predicated on the timely use of healing potions and superior weaponry as opposed to player skill and coordination.

Yes, better spells, better skills, better gear, more health, tactical knowledge, etc. are all contributing factors to ensure victory, but it's hardly engaging when I can't expertly tumble to avoid a blow or place a sneak attack, execute a fast-paced combo of strikes, or wield bolts of lightning with the same swiftness as a warrior's blade. Combat systems the likes of Fable or Prince of Persia may not be possible, but it's an admirable thing to aspire to nonetheless.

4) Mini-games. Mini-games could really breathe new life into an otherwise somewhat tired genre. Mini-games for crafting might make me want to craft something for the first time in my life. Maybe even word-based mini-games for social-interactions haggling/diplomacy?

5) At this point, having already discussed the desire for mini-games and an action-oriented combat system, it seems to me that what I really want is a game that challenges my skills as a player, not my ability to invest time. Investiture of time will always be rewarded in these kinds of games (hello, grinding?) as it often times is in real life. But, just as often in real life, someone who hasn't necessarily invested much time can also discover that they have a natural talent in a given skill or field, and are commensurately successful. There are many skill based games that I suck at (FPS, RTS, most other acronyms ending in "S"), but I respect that players of those games improve because the time they spend in-game is, in effective, spent practicing the skills that allow them (as players) to take on greater challenges. Character improvement thus, in a many ways, becomes a by-product of player improvement.

In short: A rewarding game experience for me (and for many, I like to believe) comes not just from knowing that my is character improving, but from the knowledge that I too am also improving right along with him.

6) I said this before in some other threads, but player membership in existing Golarion factions (Red Mantis Assassins, Eagle Knights, Arcanamirium, Church of Serenrae, Pathfinder Society, Hellknights, etc.) would be a HUGE draw for me.

^_^

PS. Since a skill-based character advancement system has already been mentioned, might I suggest taking a look at Skyrim's skill system? It may not work necessarily for MMO play, but it's wonderfully structured and surprisingly elegant, given its relative complexity.

Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I have a 101 ideas I'd love to share for Pathfinder Online and will refine a few of my better ideas and put them up for you to look at once I flesh them out.

One aspect which I do feel very strongly over is the art direction. One thing I wish for above all is for the high quality of art and the persona of Paizo's published products to come to life in Pathfinder Online.

There has already been a great deal of discussion on how a cartoon-esque or stylized graphics engine is largely beneficial to an MMORPG game. Nothing would lend itself more to bringing Pathfinder to life than an engine in tune with that of Borderlands; a visual style to which such massive wealth of Pathfinder artistry could truly be brought to life in truly stylized, yet accurate way.

Just picturing Paizo goblins running around in cel shading as if they just popped out of We Be Goblins...makes me feel all warm inside.

Do it.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Coldman wrote:

There has already been a great deal of discussion on how a cartoon-esque or stylized graphics engine is largely beneficial to an MMORPG game. Nothing would lend itself more to bringing Pathfinder to life than an engine in tune with that of Borderlands; a visual style to which such massive wealth of Pathfinder artistry could truly be brought to life in truly stylized, yet accurate way.

Just picturing Paizo goblins running around in cell shading as if they just popped out of my book...makes me feel all warm inside.

Do it.

See, Coldman, this? This I can support 100%. A popping visual art-style, whether in the semi-cel-shaded style of Borderlands or otherwise, would be huge.


Coldman wrote:

I have a 101 ideas I'd love to share for Pathfinder Online and will refine a few of my better ideas and put them up for you to look at once I flesh them out.

One aspect which I do feel very strongly over is the art direction. One thing I wish for above all is for the high quality of art and the persona of Paizo's published products to come to life in Pathfinder Online.

There has already been a great deal of discussion on how a cartoon-esque or stylized graphics engine is largely beneficial to an MMORPG game. Nothing would lend itself more to bringing Pathfinder to life than an engine in tune with that of Borderlands; a visual style to which such massive wealth of Pathfinder artistry could truly be brought to life in truly stylized, yet accurate way.

Just picturing Paizo goblins running around in cell shading as if they just popped out of my book...makes me feel all warm inside.

Do it.

Hell yes until my kid sees it and takes over. He finds those goblins way to cute.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A few things on my MMO's wishlist...

Interactive Environment
Including (but not limited to) environmental dangers like natural traps, slippery grounds and cold/heat effects. I like when environment can allow a better strategy than walk to the bad guy and pound it with your sword.

Handicap
I enjoy games that have effects that handicap your abilities, such as narrowed down vision from wounds/fatigue, blows that pushes or unbalance you, wolves that can trip you etc.

Alignment
Because whether we like it or not, alignment is one of the part of D&D/Pathfinder that makes it D&D/Pathfinder rather than *other RPG*. To tie-in with interactive environment, that can include traps and other effects triggered (or affected) by alignment, just as in Pathfinder.

WE BE GOBLINS
I like the idea suggested by Matias Torinos on page 2 where players can just beat the crap of each other as a separate part of the game.

Personally, I prefer simplified and stylized or abstracted graphics (which doesn't have to be cartoonish)that my computer can run over super-realistic graphics that I can enjoy when I watch my friend play on his mega-computer, or that I will be able to run in three year from now.

'findel


I would love customizable looks for armor and weapons to a degree.

Also maybe someway to let a retired PFS character make it into the game as an NPC or PC with a boost starting out.


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Do away with servers as separate worlds.

When I want to play an MMO I want to play with *everyone* not just the people who happened to pick that particular server.

Why couldn't a server govern a particular area in a world rather than an entire world with only a small chunk of the player base? I understand that some areas will have higher populations than other and would be very overpopulated, which would cause a lot of problems, but there *has* to be an way to remedy this.

I'm tired of joining a game and having to build a bunch of different characters on different servers because I have friends all over and no one wants to start over just to join me or pay for a server transfer.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Doomed Hero wrote:

Do away with servers as separate worlds.

When I want to play an MMO I want to play with *everyone* not just the people who happened to pick that particular server.

Why couldn't a server govern a particular area in a world rather than an entire world with only a small chunk of the player base? I understand that some areas will have higher populations than other and would be very overpopulated, which would cause a lot of problems, but there *has* to be an way to remedy this.

I'm tired of joining a game and having to build a bunch of different characters on different servers because I have friends all over and no one wants to start over just to join me or pay for a server transfer.

The issue here is playstyles. Heavy RPers tend to hate playing with guys who are PVP heavy and have names with fifteen x's in them and speak all the time in leet speak.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Doomed Hero wrote:

Do away with servers as separate worlds.

When I want to play an MMO I want to play with *everyone* not just the people who happened to pick that particular server.

Why couldn't a server govern a particular area in a world rather than an entire world with only a small chunk of the player base? I understand that some areas will have higher populations than other and would be very overpopulated, which would cause a lot of problems, but there *has* to be an way to remedy this.

I'm tired of joining a game and having to build a bunch of different characters on different servers because I have friends all over and no one wants to start over just to join me or pay for a server transfer.

Unfortunately, demand has surpassed technology in this regard. A modern game server for a MMORPG game could probably only handle between 4,000-6,000 players concurrently; Eve Online (the exception) I think can and has handled around 10,000 or a little more. Ryan or Mark could definitely give you more precise stats but it is definitely a figure in this region.

Sadly I cannot see very much room for manoeuvre in this regard. Darkfall Online attempted to deploy some form of 'server cluster technology' in accommodating 10,000 concurrent and succeeded I believe despite everything else going wrong. Any hope however of a single server is problematic and ultimately dependent on how many we are at release.

Goblin Squad Member

Doomed Hero wrote:

Do away with servers as separate worlds.

When I want to play an MMO I want to play with *everyone* not just the people who happened to pick that particular server.

Why couldn't a server govern a particular area in a world rather than an entire world with only a small chunk of the player base? I understand that some areas will have higher populations than other and would be very overpopulated, which would cause a lot of problems, but there *has* to be an way to remedy this.

I'm tired of joining a game and having to build a bunch of different characters on different servers because I have friends all over and no one wants to start over just to join me or pay for a server transfer.

EVE has been doing this for years. And it's just as much of a nightmare as you suspect. I'm sure Ryan Dancey can provide some added insight, but the everyone-on-the-same-"server" nature of EVE ensured that there was an effective cap to how many ships could be in the same area at the same time. This made large fleet engagements dreadfully lag-ridden. It's a nice idea, and certainly builds community (the idea that if something is happening anywhere in game, you can theoretically go be a part of it is a compelling one), but the technological hurdles are substantial.

Goblin Squad Member

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Coldman wrote:
Eve Online (the exception) I think can and has handled around 10,000 or a little more.

Actually, EVE's record as of this year is 63,170 concurrent players.


Talonhawke wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

Do away with servers as separate worlds.

When I want to play an MMO I want to play with *everyone* not just the people who happened to pick that particular server.

Why couldn't a server govern a particular area in a world rather than an entire world with only a small chunk of the player base? I understand that some areas will have higher populations than other and would be very overpopulated, which would cause a lot of problems, but there *has* to be an way to remedy this.

I'm tired of joining a game and having to build a bunch of different characters on different servers because I have friends all over and no one wants to start over just to join me or pay for a server transfer.

The issue here is playstyles. Heavy RPers tend to hate playing with guys who are PVP heavy

*Raises hand as a Heavy RPer who is PVP heavy*

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Scott Betts wrote:
Coldman wrote:
Eve Online (the exception) I think can and has handled around 10,000 or a little more.
Actually, EVE's record as of this year is 63,170 concurrent players.

Good lord.

Taldor Goblin Squad Member

I wish that if/when I play this, it feels like I'm playing Pathfinder, not *enter MMO name here*.

I also wish everyone wishing this game is *enter MMO name here* taking place on Golarion doesn't get their wish.

Goblin Squad Member

Runnetib wrote:
I wish that if/when I play this, it feels like I'm playing Pathfinder, not *enter MMO name here*.

This will depend entirely upon what your standard of "playing Pathfinder" is.

Goblinworks Founder

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Ansha wrote:
On a visual note, import the art style of PFRPG products (Wayne Reynolds, Carolina Eade, etc.) into the game. WoW's graphics take liberties with reality and come across as slightly cartoony--this is a strength. When you compare EQ2's "realistic" 3d graphics and WoW's "cartoony" 3d graphics, WoW has aged significantly better (despite coming out at roughly the same time) because it has not tried to be too realistic. The ability of computers to render increases significantly over time, and if you try to go for too much 'realism' in your graphics, it makes the graphics' age much more obvious, since it looks less 'real' than the newest renders.

I am definitely a huge supporter of this. Realistic graphics never age well, 18months - 2 years and they look terrible. Cartoon graphics have a much better longevity and can be played on much older machines.

Personally I would love to see an art style based on the Pathfinder art. It has a graphic novel feel to it and could easily work with blood splatters. They also work better with newer lighting and shading effects. If you compare a "realistic" and a "Cartoon" game from 2008 using Dx9 and a "realistic" and "cartoon" game from 2011 using Dx11 lighting and shading, the cartoon will still look very good, while the realistic will still have the dodgy textures.

Goblin Squad Member

Elth wrote:
Ansha wrote:
On a visual note, import the art style of PFRPG products (Wayne Reynolds, Carolina Eade, etc.) into the game. WoW's graphics take liberties with reality and come across as slightly cartoony--this is a strength. When you compare EQ2's "realistic" 3d graphics and WoW's "cartoony" 3d graphics, WoW has aged significantly better (despite coming out at roughly the same time) because it has not tried to be too realistic. The ability of computers to render increases significantly over time, and if you try to go for too much 'realism' in your graphics, it makes the graphics' age much more obvious, since it looks less 'real' than the newest renders.

I am definitely a huge supporter of this. Realistic graphics never age well, 18months - 2 years and they look terrible. Cartoon graphics have a much better longevity and can be played on much older machines.

Personally I would love to see an art style based on the Pathfinder art. It has a graphic novel feel to it and could easily work with blood splatters. They also work better with newer lighting and shading effects. If you compare a "realistic" and a "Cartoon" game from 2008 using Dx9 and a "realistic" and "cartoon" game from 2011 using Dx11 lighting and shading, the cartoon will still look very good, while the realistic will still have the dodgy textures.

Agreed and favorited. PFO needs its own style.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Among other things I would like to have a wide variety of options. I would like the option to play a Hellknight and form an order of the aggressive lawbringers to the River Kingdomes. I could start it up and begin building my ranks with fellow players or NPCs.

I also would like to play an explorer have have a good time just seeing what exists in the online world as far as dungeons, towns, mountains, and such with the hope that by the time I've made it through everything, something somewhere has changed enough to merit me revisting it.

I would like to create dungeons or adventures to be shared with my friends and the community either as using tools outside the power of a character or as I would in Minecraft where I collect collect resources from around to create whatever I want to build as the character. Effectively it shouldn't need to need to be restocked with creatures by me every time a group passes through, nor should I be fighting to keep repairing broken down doors.


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Scott Betts wrote:
I know it's tempting to accuse me of some self-interested motivation in this criticism, because it would undermine the legitimacy of that criticism if it were true, but I'm coming from a position of supporting features that would make the game successful. I mean, after all, forcing everyone to have good names would make the overall play experience better for me.

It's because your posts kind of give off that vibe. I wouldn't have been accusing you of something if your posts hadn't given me the feeling you were doing that to me as well. Your posts are a bit too fiery. I appreciate passion, but not if it burns down the house.

You see, I am merely throwing around poorly conceived ideas simply to give the developers some food for thought. I will be the first to admit I am not in any way versed in the language of programming, so I have no idea which of my ideas are possible or not, but that's not even the reason I am throwing them around. I am merely giving the developers something to think about.

And honestly, my experiences with Ultima Online show me that there is a lot more possible than whatever has been the norm for years in MMOs, because for its age, it has some features that I haven't seen in other MMOs afterwards which are all really cool.

For one, and I think they want to implement a comparable feature, is the ability to build whatever you want, and to hire NPC vendors to sell stuff you make. The latter may be implemented in one way or another in some MMOs, but player built houses (cities even) isn't something high on the list of most MMOs these days.

And hey, maybe you're right, maybe some of the things are bad ideas, but at least they give the developers something to think about, because if many people think all those "standard" features detract from their experiences, maybe there should be something done about them, even though they are standard. But I am deviating again.

Player built cities would be great!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Daniel36 wrote:
You see, I am merely throwing around poorly conceived ideas simply to give the developers some food for thought. I will be the first to admit I am not in any way versed in the language of programming, so I have no idea which of my ideas are possible or not, but that's not even the reason I am throwing them around. I am merely giving the developers something to think about.

Speaking as a developer this is exactly what we need, and on what we truly thrive on. We can get very caught up in the mechanics of various functions and not see other possibilities. It's fun to get a lightning bolt out of the blue and suddenly think - hey, why didn't I see that!?

Don't put yourself down, good ideas are good ideas regardless of source or experience. :)

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