TWF and Cleave

[Zazael]

Hi,
i know there are different discussions about Cleave and TWF and the penalltys resulting. But my questions is more fundamental. I play a twf Ranger and i want to get the Cleave feat. Does the extra attacks stack with both or would cleave OR TWF apply?

In which order would i attack?

Full Attack: first hand + cleave and then secound hand + cleave or what?

Thank for the help.

[Midnight_Angel]

Neither. In PF, Cleave requires a standard action. Which precludes you from doing full attacks.

Cleave (PRD) wrote:

You can strike two adjacent foes with a single swing.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.

[Zazael]

So it's not possible to combine TWF and cleave?

[Midnight_Angel]

Zazael wrote:

So it's not possible to combine TWF and cleave?

TWF, as in wielding two weapons: Of course you can.

TWF, as in dishing out several attacks and still get a cleaving attack: Nope.

[Lincoln Hills]

Right. You'd essentially choose either round whether to take the two-weapon full attack action (best if you're not moving more than 5') or the Cleave standard action (best if you've already moved that round, although that -2 AC means you probably shouldn't use it if you'll be the only PC adjacent to the two enemies you're targeting.)

[Zazael]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Zazael wrote:

So it's not possible to combine TWF and cleave?

TWF, as in wielding two weapons: Of course you can.

TWF, as in dishing out several attacks and still get a cleaving attack: Nope.

How would an attack look like in the first case? And what penallties do i get?

[ShadowcatX]

Zazael wrote:

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Zazael wrote:

So it's not possible to combine TWF and cleave?

TWF, as in wielding two weapons: Of course you can.

TWF, as in dishing out several attacks and still get a cleaving attack: Nope.

How would an attack look like in the first case? And what penallties do i get?

You take your first attack with your first weapon and your second attack with your second weapon. No penalties, but no bonuses either (other than using a different weapon.)

[Grick]

Zazael wrote:

How would an attack look like in the first case? And what penallties do i get?

"Two-Weapon Fighting" is a special fighting style that requires a full-attack and grants you one extra attack with your off-hand weapon. There are feats (Improved and Greater TWF) that grant more attacks. Fighting this way has penalties and limitations on your weapons and attacks.

If you're not fighting that way, there are no TWF penalties.

If your BAB is 6, and you have an axe and a sword, you can make your first attack with the axe at +6, then your second attack with your sword at +1. Or the other way around. Or both with the axe at +6 then +1. Or both with the sword.

If you cleave, you use a standard action to make one attack with one weapon. If you hit, you can make one attack on a foe adjacent to the first that is also in reach. (That adjacent part is important, you can't cleave two guys that are flanking you)

[Midnight_Angel]

Zazael wrote:

How would an attack look like in the first case? And what penallties do i get?

Huh? I don't understand the question. You can do a single attack with either weapon, as a standard action, then have your Cleave kick in, at the same modifier(s) you'd use when wielding just a single weapon.

The other weapon is just... prety much decoration, save for the fact you may use either one for any AoO you might be entitled to.

[OilHorse]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Zazael wrote:

How would an attack look like in the first case? And what penallties do i get?

Huh? I don't understand the question. You can do a single attack with either weapon, as a standard action, then have your Cleave kick in, at the same modifier(s) you'd use when wielding just a single weapon.

The other weapon is just... prety much decoration, save for the fact you may use either one for any AoO you might be entitled to.

*Casts Raise Dead Thread*

Looking to make sure I am clear on how this may work...

Weilding 2 Dorn Dergar via Dorn Dergar Master.

2 enemies are adjacent to each other, one is adjacent to me, the other in 10' away.

I take a single attack with Cleave attached and hit the adjacent one. I am now able to use the cleave attack to attack the one 10' away...correct?

[Abrir]

if you can take the 5ft step to get with reach of the same weapon perhaps.
or if you used a reach weapon.(dm pending if you can hit an enemy with your poleaxe as a unusual weapon, and then cleave with it using same atk[possible?]).

[DarkKnight27]

There's a feat from Ultimate Combat called Cleaving Finish that you would want.

It's basically the old version (D&D 3.5) of Cleave, here's the text;

Cleaving Finish:

When you strike down an opponent, you can continue your swing into another target.

Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Power Attack.

Benefit: If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat.

This would allow you to use TWF on a full-round attack and still cleave if you drop the opponent to zero or less.

I think there may be a "Greater" or "Improved" version of Cleaving Finish, but I'm not 100% sure.