Do you play with Words of Power?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I recently purchased the Ultimate Magic book and I read over the Words of Power section. My gut reaction was "heck no", however after reading it over I really like the flavor it could provide. I think this might be especially true to sorcerers or other spontaneous casters (bards). Does it fit a certain class or archetype better than others?
Anyway, I was wondering:
Who uses the words of power casting system?
Why you use it?
What you think about it?


I don't have much experience, but I believe the general consensus is that Sorcerers and Oracles are your best bet, and make the most sense, since the supposedly use magic at its most basic.

Bards and Summoners, however, have specialized spell lists that give them spells earlier than other casters (in terms of spell level, anyway) so it actually hurts them a bit to use WoP.

Generally, I'd let the players decide if they wanted to use the system


you know I hadn't thought about the fact that bards get access to spells a bit early. I suppose from a flavor standpoint I just imagined them shouting out actual words to enact a spell. I particularly like the idea of a sorcerer who gains her magic through blood and lineage using the words to tap into that potential.

Do you feel that it can be unbalanced or unwieldy in combat?


Mage Evolving wrote:

I recently purchased the Ultimate Magic book and I read over the Words of Power section. My gut reaction was "heck no", however after reading it over I really like the flavor it could provide. I think this might be especially true to sorcerers or other spontaneous casters (bards). Does it fit a certain class or archetype better than others?

Anyway, I was wondering:
Who uses the words of power casting system?
Why you use it?
What you think about it?

I play a 4th level sorcerer using the Words of Power, and as far as I can tell, it works well so far. I've just gained the ability to mix two 0th level effect words into one spell, which isn't great, but once I get to higher levels the opportunities for funky spells will multiply.

Personally I use it because I hate the 'default' magic system of PF/D&D; it's too structured and rigid, despite the enormous number of spells out there. Words of Power is a step in the right direction for me, whilst magic systems like those featured in Ars Magica and the d20 supplement 'Elements of Magic' are my true ideal systems; complete (or near-complete) customisability of spells, shaping it at your will, just like it should be.

Words of Power manages to convey this in the most part, but there are obviously still restrictions since it has to work within PF's 'spell level' system, for example, there are something like 4 different Fire words for different levels, and all they really do differently is increase the damage dice cap from, say, 5d6 to 10d6. What I'd prefer to say is something along the lines of 'I'm about to use a lot of magic on evoking fire' or 'a little magic on evoking fire' and have it more granular, but that's beyond the scope of WoP. So, it's good for those who want some more freedom compared to the stifling normal PF magic system, but not quite the ultimate custom magic system that I've wanted.


Great podcast on Words of Power here.

I am going to introduce them into my next campaign which I am writing now ...


Kyremi wrote:


I play a 4th level sorcerer using the Words of Power, and as far as I can tell, it works well so far. I've just gained the ability to mix two 0th level effect words into one spell, which isn't great, but once I get to higher levels the opportunities for funky spells will multiply.

Personally I use it because I hate the 'default' magic system of PF/D&D; it's too structured and rigid, despite the enormous number of spells out there. Words of Power is a step in the right direction for me, whilst magic systems like those featured in Ars Magica and the d20 supplement 'Elements of Magic' are my true ideal systems; complete (or near-complete) customisability of spells, shaping it at your will, just like it should be.

Words of Power manages to convey this in the most part, but there are obviously still restrictions since it has to work within PF's 'spell level' system, for example, there are something like 4 different Fire words for different levels, and all they really do differently is increase the damage dice cap from, say, 5d6 to 10d6. What I'd prefer to say is something along the lines of 'I'm about to use a lot of magic on evoking fire' or 'a little magic on evoking fire' and have it more granular, but that's beyond the scope of WoP. So, it's good for those who want some more freedom compared to the stifling normal PF magic system, but not quite the ultimate custom magic system that I've wanted.

I think it is the flexibility that I really would enjoy. Do you think that the words of power are more powerful or broken in anyway. From what I can tell there are many spells which are in fact weaker than the core spells. Am I mistaken?


Denim N Leather wrote:

Great podcast on Words of Power here.

I am going to introduce them into my next campaign which I am writing now ...

I just started listening to the podcast. Thanks for the recommendation. I love the Intro.


In terms of weaker spells, yes, there are some examples. The level 1 word Force Shield gives a +4 bonus to AC, just like Mage Armor does, except Force Shield lasts 1 minute/level, whereas I've been told Mage Armor lasts 10 minutes/level. In general there are less options for any sort of illusion spells or such... but my build is mostly a blaster anyway so I don't notice it as much.

One massive bonus, however, is the amount of words you get. I calculated that if you build a human sorcerer from the ground up to have as many words of power as possible, by 7th level he'd have 30 Effect and Meta words; that's not even counting the Target words. That's a helluva lot of options in a fight.


Mage Evolving wrote:

you know I hadn't thought about the fact that bards get access to spells a bit early. I suppose from a flavor standpoint I just imagined them shouting out actual words to enact a spell. I particularly like the idea of a sorcerer who gains her magic through blood and lineage using the words to tap into that potential.

Do you feel that it can be unbalanced or unwieldy in combat?

It can be a bit unwieldy, but only I'd the person using it doesn't know the system. It's not really for people new to pathfinder either. I'd suggest sit down before a game and come up with a few prepared "spells", so you don't slow anything down, then just play with the system from there


Denim N Leather wrote:

Great podcast on Words of Power here.

I am going to introduce them into my next campaign which I am writing now ...

I'm listening to the podcast right now. I've noted one error in it already, but it led me to realize a new option in casting some things. I'm very intrigued.


The podcast was seriously helpful and a bit scarey in that they had many of the same ideas that I had. If anyone else has any experiences that they want to share with the words of power I'd really appreciate it.


Serisan wrote:
I'm listening to the podcast right now. I've noted one error in it already, but it led me to realize a new option in casting some things. I'm very intrigued.

I can't claim I can ever be 100% error free, but it certainly is a goal to be as correct as possible. Either way, thanks for listening!

Out of curiosity (and so I can put a correction in a later podcast), what was the error?

Sean Mahoney

(And thank you DNL for the shout out!!! As always, you rock!)


Sean Mahoney wrote:
Serisan wrote:
I'm listening to the podcast right now. I've noted one error in it already, but it led me to realize a new option in casting some things. I'm very intrigued.

I can't claim I can ever be 100% error free, but it certainly is a goal to be as correct as possible. Either way, thanks for listening!

Out of curiosity (and so I can put a correction in a later podcast), what was the error?

Sean Mahoney

(And thank you DNL for the shout out!!! As always, you rock!)

I actually found another one while listening.

First error: there was mention of Selected requiring a ranged touch for all spells that are being used at range. It only impacts energy damage spells (so yes on Cure, but no on Charm). This screws up your Spellslinger wish. (10:15-11:40 in the playback)

Second error: Acid Burn was indicated as single target only. It does not have a target word limitation. (36:40 in the playback)


Serisan wrote:
First error: there was mention of Selected requiring a ranged touch for all spells that are being used at range. It only impacts energy damage spells (so yes on Cure, but no on Charm). This screws up your Spellslinger wish. (10:15-11:40 in the playback)

Look at that, right you are. I apparently missed that on the several readings through it. Sad, sad day for the poor spellslinger... we keep building up his hopes and dreams only to see them dashed again.

Serisan wrote:
Second error: Acid Burn was indicated as single target only. It does not have a target word limitation. (36:40 in the playback)

Right you are again... apparently that word "if" has meaning. Oh well, I was looking for a quick example and glanced at it.

Anyway... keep em coming if you find em!

Sean


Sean Mahoney wrote:
Serisan wrote:
First error: there was mention of Selected requiring a ranged touch for all spells that are being used at range. It only impacts energy damage spells (so yes on Cure, but no on Charm). This screws up your Spellslinger wish. (10:15-11:40 in the playback)

Look at that, right you are. I apparently missed that on the several readings through it. Sad, sad day for the poor spellslinger... we keep building up his hopes and dreams only to see them dashed again.

Serisan wrote:
Second error: Acid Burn was indicated as single target only. It does not have a target word limitation. (36:40 in the playback)

Right you are again... apparently that word "if" has meaning. Oh well, I was looking for a quick example and glanced at it.

Anyway... keep em coming if you find em!

Sean

Happy to help. I'm kind of a WoP fan, and despite my repeated readings, I missed out on some of the things that you pointed out in the podcast. It was all very interesting to me. Unfortunately, I was listening to it while reading books with my 2 year old daughter, so I was distracted through some parts. I may listen to it again to catch the whole thing.


DSRMT wrote:
I don't have much experience, but I believe the general consensus is that Sorcerers and Oracles are your best bet, and make the most sense, since the supposedly use magic at its most basic.

I'm playing a level 1 (soon to be level 2) Words of Power oracle currently, and I have mixed feelings about it.

On the bright side, I can do some neat things that aren't easily possible for a normal oracle. For instance, WoP cure spells are usable at range, the WoP protection-from-evil-equivalent allows you to reroll a save vs. any spell you want, etc. And I like the different target keywords that let you reshape your spells into cones, circular bursts, lines, etc.

On the down side, some levels have pretty slim pickings in terms of spell choices. For instance (as I've noted in some other threads), there are only two level 7 cleric/oracle effect words! And many effect words have been nerfed from their non-WoP equivalents, some with good reason, but some are head-scratchers. Is it really that bad to have Bull's Strength last 1 minute per level, for instance? And the number of meta word uses you get at low levels is pitifully small unless you take Meta Word Mastery.

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