I don't disagree with you. In fact I'm in favor of teacher unions. I don't think that necessarily applies to the topic of this discussion though.
But you're wrong. A halfway decent shop steward would've laughed management out of the office!
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But you're wrong. A halfway decent shop steward would've laughed management out of the office!
I'm not disagreeing your assessment of labor relations.
What I'm pointing out is that this is a broadening of the topic that will lead to us arguing with DD over what is and isn't "work" and how that's different from "labor".
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Hee hee! Citizen Duck once tried explaining the meaning of the word "if" to me.
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My lessons from those 2 articles:
Lesson 1: Don't sign contracts with vague "morality" clauses.
Lesson 2: Christian schools see punishment as more Christian than forgiveness.
You'd think that Christians of all people would have more sympathy for an unwed mother, considering...
I think this is a result of the general conservatism to which Christianity is bound. Its less biblicaly based and more how things were in a mythical 1950's America.
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Hee hee! Citizen Duck once tried explaining the meaning of the word "if" to me.
DD is ....Telly Savalas?
Who'd have thought?
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Hee hee! Citizen Duck once tried explaining the meaning of the word "if" to me.DD is ....Telly Savalas?
Who'd have thought?
AHHHHHHH!!! Run for your lives! Amon-Ra in polyester!!!!
Darkwing Duck, people like you are one of the reasons I'm no longer a Christian. If you want to give religion a good name, you may wish to change your behaviour.
Since it's likely that some are wondering, no, it was not solely bad Christians that made me turn. It was bad Christians that made me investigate Christianity more deeply. It was that investigation that made me turn.
Hey moderators. I'm suprised this thread is not locked due to the insulting and offensive comments like this one above.
Is Christianity fair game. Many people find a lot of these posts offensive."DON"T BE A JERK" rule right?
I recently posted a definition of Statesman & Politician and asked which one best describes President Obama.
The last post by the moderator said that the thread will be closed due to the high risk of its derailment.
So if that was such a high risk topic why is this thread about Christianity lingering?
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Flag and move on, Aretas.
Bad Christians made him investigate and by that investigation he turned away from Chritianity? In other words once he really looked into Christianity it was so appaling that he turned away from it.
I just want fairness here.
Considering his opinion is directed at an entire faith & its adherants I find it insulting.
Just b/c its an opinion of yours does not mean you have a right to disregard the message board rules on coduct.
So why is ths thread allowed to linger? Most of the opinions expressed on the boards about Christianity are always filled with derogatory & slandering opinions.
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Bad Christians made him investigate and by that investigation he turned away from Chritianity? In other words once he really looked into Christianity it was so appaling that he turned away from it.
I just want fairness here.Are you for real?
I don't doubt that he is.
@Triomegazero.
Here is what the moderator posted before he locked the "Where is President Obama" thread.
Lambertz(Digital Products Assistant)Thursday, 10:27 AM
While we are totally okay with political discussions, it seems like this is quickly derailing. Please do not insult each other. That generally hinders fruitful discussion. I've removed most of this thread for that reason. This thread is now locked.
All the insults were directed at me for expressing my disappointment
on economic/political issues and saying we need a statesman not a politician.
I like this community & I really appreciate everyone but its shamefully obvious how the moderators turn a blind eye to the hateful anti Christian rhetoric while lockin down a thread critical of President Obama.
Bad Christians made him investigate and by that investigation he turned away from Chritianity? In other words once he really looked into Christianity it was so appaling that he turned away from it.
I just want fairness here.Are you for real?
I'm incorporeal.
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I like this community & I really appreciate everyone but its shamefully obvious how the moderators turn a blind eye to the hateful anti Christian rhetoric while lockin down a thread critical of President Obama.
It's hateful anti-Christian rhetoric for someone to say that on close examination they found Christianity appalling and thus opted not to be a Christian?
Clearly I'm jaded, because my threshold for calling something hatred is a bit higher than that.
Considering his opinion is directed at an entire faith & its adherants I find it insulting.
Just b/c its an opinion of yours does not mean you have a right to disregard the message board rules on coduct.
So why is ths thread allowed to linger? Most of the opinions expressed on the boards about Christianity are always filled with derogatory & slandering opinions.
In another thread, you questioned my devotion to the United States, even after I pointed out that I served 7 years in the military. In fact, you repeatedly questioned it.
So far, I've responded to your posts in this thread with pretty well documented facts and have even tried to prod the direction into a more productive discussion. You've not engaged me at all, but insist in only looking for ways to be insulted.
Would you rather discuss about how insulted you feel? Or would you like to discuss how Christianity could change and be more of a purely positive force in the world?
If you say something how historically Christianity has been more of a force for good than evil, I will list 5 more events where Christians killed hundreds of Jews and finish by asking how many good works balance out the murder of a single human being.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I am insulted by you. Currently Protestant Christians and Catholics are fighting efforts to allow women access to medical care on the grounds that they morally object. Their stance is being used to demean and degrade women by others. I find it offensive that you think this "balances out" the killing of Jews over 1,800 years.
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Thinking about this a bit more, I had an idea.
Aretas, maybe instead of taking offense and demanding the post be purged and the thread locked you could ask the poster what in particular he found appalling about Christianity. Said poster might be laboring under a misunderstanding you could correct, even. That might lead to a constructive conversation. Probably not, but it might.
I could of course give my own list (at least one bit of the case has been posted in this very thread, though I can only assume you didn't find it offensive) but I'm not the guy you've got the beef with.
The opening post of this thread is a link to a Christian father calling for tolerance and keeping what he sees as Jesus' primary message in mind, something that I think reflects positively on Christianity. People are always going to have strong reactions to strong beliefs, no matter what they are but in general if they they are being discussed fairly constructively I think it should be allowed.
I think the moderators closed the other thread because it didn't seem to be going anywhere nice. Fairly or not people had a strong reaction to your OP and then you got both seriously offended by it and were unable to convey what the points you were trying to get across in a way that was widely understood so it just seemed like it was going to devolve into a screaming match.
This thread however has been a pretty responsible discussion and I think should be allowed to stay.
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@Triomegazero.
Here is what the moderator posted before he locked the "Where is President Obama" thread.
Lambertz(Digital Products Assistant)Thursday, 10:27 AM
While we are totally okay with political discussions, it seems like this is quickly derailing. Please do not insult each other. That generally hinders fruitful discussion. I've removed most of this thread for that reason. This thread is now locked.All the insults were directed at me for expressing my disappointment
on economic/political issues and saying we need a statesman not a politician.I like this community & I really appreciate everyone but its shamefully obvious how the moderators turn a blind eye to the hateful anti Christian rhetoric while lockin down a thread critical of President Obama.
I don't think that other thread should have been locked, but my not believing in your "God" isn't offensive.
I like this community & I really appreciate everyone but its shamefully obvious how the moderators turn a blind eye to the hateful anti Christian rhetoric while lockin down a thread critical of President Obama.It's hateful anti-Christian rhetoric for someone to say that on close examination they found Christianity appalling and thus opted not to be a Christian?
Clearly I'm jaded, because my threshold for calling something hatred is a bit higher than that.
Yeah its inflammatory for this venue. He did not break down what he "discovered" and his catalyst for his awakening was a bad Christian.
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Aretas, you're not making any sense.
Would be as understanding if an atheist began to rave becasue a former atheist became a Christian? Is that hateful?
Let it go, brother. There was no insult there to be had.
Considering his opinion is directed at an entire faith & its adherants I find it insulting.
Just b/c its an opinion of yours does not mean you have a right to disregard the message board rules on coduct.
So why is ths thread allowed to linger? Most of the opinions expressed on the boards about Christianity are always filled with derogatory & slandering opinions.In another thread, you questioned my devotion to the United States, even after I pointed out that I served 7 years in the military. In fact, you repeatedly questioned it.
So far, I've responded to your posts in this thread with pretty well documented facts and have even tried to prod the direction into a more productive discussion. You've not engaged me at all, but insist in only looking for ways to be insulted.
Would you rather discuss about how insulted you feel? Or would you like to discuss how Christianity could change and be more of a purely positive force in the world?
If you say something how historically Christianity has been more of a force for good than evil, I will list 5 more events where Christians killed hundreds of Jews and finish by asking how many good works balance out the murder of a single human being.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I am insulted by you. Currently Protestant Christians and Catholics are fighting efforts to allow women access to medical care on the grounds that they morally object. Their stance is being used to demean and degrade women by others. I find it offensive that you think this "balances out" the killing of Jews over 1,800 years.
I find it offensive that you think this "balances out" the killing of Jews over 1,800 years.
Hold on there cowboy! I never said or implied the above statement. I find it crazy to assert that Christianity oppresses woman. Didn't you & Vice President Biden get the memo fromo the White house? The so called fake "war on woman" is a over.
You speak about how Christianity killed thousands since its founding in 33 AD. Yes I do believe Christianity was more of a force for good than evil. I do not throw to the garbage the contributions to humanity the ancient Greeks gave us b/c they had a slave holding society.
This is just a simple analogy I believe can sum up my point for your assertion that Christianity is horrible b/c its worshippers killed people in the midevil ages.
I look at the historical context of the times. That is how I see it. Look at the religion today. Is the world more or less savage today? It is less savage in Christian societies b/c of Christian worship. Just my observation.
I have learned a lesson on how to conduct myself with tact and respect on these boards. At times a I fallen to "trolls".
I surely hope you accept my apology and wish not to further stale our relationship. Again I am sorry.
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If you say a single negative thing about certain groups it is almost certainly a ban around here. Christians do not have that kind of protection afforded them, not on these boards, nor in society at large.
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Hold on there cowboy! I never said or implied the above statement. I find it crazy to assert that Christianity oppresses woman.
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)
Aretas, you're not making any sense.
Would be as understanding if an atheist began to rave becasue a former atheist became a Christian? Is that hateful?Let it go, brother. There was no insult there to be had.
Not true. His original post was in response to this:
"Darkwing Duck, people like you are one of the reasons I'm no longer a Christian. "
That is an insult directed at Darkwing Duck. And it would also apply to any who may hold to the same beliefs as DD.
I've ignored the general bull in this thread but the above by umbral reaver was an explicit insult and saying otherwise (or that it is not those who may hold similar views) is nonsense.
So, yes it was a insult at another poster, Darkwing Duck, and it naturally applies to any who may be in agreement with said poster within this thread or without.
But, to go further, the post generalized about "bad Christians" in a manner that says "disagreeing with me" means that you should be looked down upon. That's what "people like you" means in that context.
So, yes, there is every reason for such individuals to be insulted.
If one wishes to say, "I am insulting those jack asses because they deserve it for their actions, then fine. But, don't pretend that one isn't being insulted or that they are just reading into things that aren't there and don't complain if others respond in a manner that eventually leads to the thread being closed.
Darkwing Duck, people like you are one of the reasons I'm no longer a Christian. If you want to give religion a good name, you may wish to change your behaviour.
Since it's likely that some are wondering, no, it was not solely bad Christians that made me turn. It was bad Christians that made me investigate Christianity more deeply. It was that investigation that made me turn.
Hey moderators. I'm suprised this thread is not locked due to the insulting and offensive comments like this one above.
Is Christianity fair game. Many people find a lot of these posts offensive.
"DON"T BE A JERK" rule right?I recently posted a definition of Statesman & Politician and asked which one best describes President Obama.
The last post by the moderator said that the thread will be closed due to the high risk of its derailment.
So if that was such a high risk topic why is this thread about Christianity lingering?Seriously? Are you THAT butthurt? Because quite, honestly, Umbral Reaver and I are in the same boat. There's nothing in his post that is at all insulting or unfair to christianity. If you really READ the Bible, you begin to see how it can't even reach an agreement on major plot points (i.e. two different versions of creation, two different versions of the 10 commandments, the four gospels don't even agree about the life of Jesus).
As for you, the President Obama thread was simply trolling on your part.
It was not "Trolling". I would much appreciate that you cease accusing me of that. I was expressing my opinion and was looking for some constructive dialogue. Instead I got bashed.
The interesting thing about this whole part of the discussion is that Umbral Reaver (who is female, btw, guys) was making comments directed towards Darkwing Duck who is pretty open about being a pro-gay Christian and denies that The Bible is anti-homosexual.
Anyway, as a communist and a Teamster, two groups who don't get much love, I find all the outrage from some Christians that people don't like their ideas amusing. I'm going to start flagging the posts of anti-communists because they're insulting my beliefs. I wonder how far that will get me.
The interesting thing about this whole part of the discussion is that Umbral Reaver (who is female, btw, guys) was making comments directed towards Darkwing Duck who is pretty open about being a pro-gay Christian and denies that The Bible is anti-homosexual.
Anyway, as a communist and a Teamster, two groups who don't get much love, I find all the outrage from some Christians that people don't like their ideas amusing. I'm going to start flagging the posts of anti-communists because they're insulting my beliefs. I wonder how far that will get me.
This is why I love the boards. Variety! Its like a box of chocholates. You never know what you're going to get, but chances are its chock full o nuts...
This is why I love the boards. Variety! Its like a box of chocholates. You never know what you're going to get, but chances are its chock full o nuts...The interesting thing about this whole part of the discussion is that Umbral Reaver (who is female, btw, guys) was making comments directed towards Darkwing Duck who is pretty open about being a pro-gay Christian and denies that The Bible is anti-homosexual.
Anyway, as a communist and a Teamster, two groups who don't get much love, I find all the outrage from some Christians that people don't like their ideas amusing. I'm going to start flagging the posts of anti-communists because they're insulting my beliefs. I wonder how far that will get me.
I'm flagging that, BNW!
Hold on there cowboy! I never said or implied the above statement. I find it crazy to assert that Christianity oppresses woman.
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)
I do not want to post in this manner but I would like to say only one thing in regards to this. Then I'll move on.
Galatians 3:28
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Looking at one sentence, or even an entire passage in any text, disconnected from the whole document and hence out of context, inevitably distorts the overall truth and total or comprehensive meaning of that text. Consequently, the sweeping conclusions and myriad implications you draw from this isolated example out of context have limited, if any, validity.
The Bible is a collection of writings from varied sources, some secondary (Timothy) and some primary (Jesus), each of which one needs to evaluate separately on the basis of its own merits. Jesus, if you know anything at all about Christianity, is obviously the most authoritative primary source. Look to His actions and words concerning women if you want to understand the Christian beliefs on this subject. Jesus, of course, always treated women with the greatest of respect and understanding, even defending the so-called fallen woman taken in adultery, saying "Let he among you who has NOT sinned cast the first stone." In this context, all your "spewings" about Christianity and women are basically nonsense.
Not all sources, whether of Christian beliefs and/or theology or of anything else, have equal standing and/or credibility. Since you seem to be applying "rigorous" tests to these writings and coming up with all sorts of conclusions, you need to do so in conformance with scholarly standards and principles of logic if you want anyone to take your ideas as credible and serious.
Peace!
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Stuff
If I say "The rain is why I no longer leave the windows in my car down while im at work", is that an insult to the rain?
I can understand how that can be perceived as an insult, but it was only a comment born of truth. Someone who exhibited similar behavior caused a person to seek more answers elsewhere, and he believes Christanity is no longer for him.
It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
I'd be more concerned about the un-Christian behavior that drove a brother from Christ than the insult.
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It was not "Trolling". I would much appreciate that you cease accusing me of that. I was expressing my opinion and was looking for some constructive dialogue. Instead I got bashed.
This may be your problem.
Someone disagreeing with you isn't bashing you.
Posting something specifically inflammatory is trolling. People responding to it, not inflammatory.
And then there is just making poor choices about what they say, for example, when Reagan said this to a live mic before a press conference in 1984.
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Looking at one sentence, or even an entire passage in any text, disconnected from the whole document and hence out of context, inevitably distorts the overall truth and total or comprehensive meaning of that text. Consequently, the sweeping conclusions and myriad implications you draw from this isolated example out of context have limited, if any, validity.
Feel free to provide the context.
But when you say "I find it crazy to assert that Christianity oppresses woman." I find the texts above support the argument pretty well, meaning that it is far from "crazy" to assert Christianity oppressed women.
StuffIf I say "The rain is why I no longer leave the windows in my car down while im at work", is that an insult to the rain?
I can understand how that can be perceived as an insult, but it was only a comment born of truth. Someone who exhibited similar behavior caused a person to seek more answers elsewhere, and he believes Christanity is no longer for him.
It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
I'd be more concerned about the un-Christian behavior that drove a brother from Christ than the insult.
Complete Nonsense.
People are not objects and have choices in their actions.
It was specifically referencing DD in a negative manner regarding the positions he holds and the way he acts.
That is an insult. Trying to argue otherwise is complete nonsense.
In fact, the very end of the above post continues to make the point. It is saying that umbral reaver was driven away from Christianity by people who claimed Christianity but acted otherwise. Saying those were people like DD is insulting DD.
Not an insult is more nonsense.
I think most people have mislayed their unhappiness with Jews,onto the Christians. It is they who conform to the first 5 books of the Old Testament most rigorously,that seems to be the source for everybodys out of context snippets they like to use against Christians. Just an observation.
It was not "Trolling". I would much appreciate that you cease accusing me of that. I was expressing my opinion and was looking for some constructive dialogue. Instead I got bashed.
This may be your problem.
Someone disagreeing with you isn't bashing you.
Posting something specifically inflammatory is trolling. People responding to it, not inflammatory.
And then there is just making poor choices about what they say, for example, when Reagan said this to a live mic before a press conference in 1984.
No, that is not the problem. Disagreeing is never a problem. I believe one person actually asked me to tell him/her why I believed what I posted. The rest of the posters simply made uncontructive, absurd comments about what I thought of Obama. Like he is Muslim, Hawaii is a actually Kenya, FEMA will imprison Christians, to name a few.
Posting that we need a Statesman first or a Politician is not inflammatory. One person attempted to answer that question. Instead of talking about that I had to spend my time responding to accusations about my intent.
If you consider my question specifically inflammatory then thats your prerogative. You might hold President Obama as your dear leader. I on the other hand am as critical of Obama as I was of Bush 1 & 2.
Take care.
Looking at one sentence, or even an entire passage in any text, disconnected from the whole document and hence out of context, inevitably distorts the overall truth and total or comprehensive meaning of that text. Consequently, the sweeping conclusions and myriad implications you draw from this isolated example out of context have limited, if any, validity.
Feel free to provide the context.
But when you say "I find it crazy to assert that Christianity oppresses woman." I find the texts above support the argument pretty well, meaning that it is far from "crazy" to assert Christianity oppressed women.
I'm not the one providing the text or making the assertion that Christianity is evil, or against woman. Ask the other poster.
Later!
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I think most people have mislayed their unhappiness with Jews,onto the Christians. It is they who conform to the first 5 books of the Old Testament most rigorously,that seems to be the source for everybodys out of context snippets they like to use against Christians. Just an observation.
Timothy, Corinthians, and Ephesians are in the New Testament. Genesis was the only old testament quote I used.