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Make a stand for Orcish rights in Golarion!


Off-Topic Discussions

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Dark Archive

Pathfinder Cards Subscriber
AM CONFUSED wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:


By making them arch-enemies? Good plan! :P

"AM THOUGHT ARCH WAS DOOR? WHY U BE DOOR ENEMY? WHAT DOOR DO TO U? U RAISED IN BARN? THAT BARN NO HAVE DOOR? AM IS SAD U BARN HOME NO HAVE DOOR BUT AM NOT UNDERSTAND WHY U MAKE DOOR WAR."

[Hellknight Paladin]

Okay ... deep breaths. Remember your oaths. The orc asks because it is confused. You are not annoyed. You cannot be annoyed.

*sigh*

I said back to work, orc! Speak you three praises to Asmodeus and two to Abadar when you have completed your labors! Just like I told you.

I cannot even imagine how I am going to make that one learn his letters.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
You realize elves are chaotic, right?

Unfortunate that. But the elves are eager to make alliances in common good. Their nature makes them ill suited to civilization, but by and large they understand common decency. I have far greater troubles to concern myself with than pacifying them in their forest homes. Should one cross my path and disrupt the public order, they receive Discipline like anyone else.

And please tell the Chaos-One that I will not acknowledge him further. He was warned. Mockery of Asmodeus is prohibited by Chelaxian law, but mockery of Abadar belies ignorance of Truth.

[/Hellknightin']

Now, on the subject of bugbears, I had precisely zero interest or love for bugbears until they were transformed into solitary, sadistic, hulking goblins. So the redesign not only works for me, it is the only sort of bugbear that I use. YMMV.

Hobgoblins have ... no special place in my heart, strangely enough. Roman hobs are good. Paizo hobs are also good.


Kegluneq wrote:


[Hellknight Paladin]

Okay ... deep breaths. Remember your oaths. The orc asks because it is confused. You are not annoyed. You cannot be annoyed.

*sigh*

I said back to work, orc! Speak you three praises to Asmodeus and two to Abadar when you have completed your labors! Just like I told you.

I cannot even imagine how I am going to make that one learn his letters.

"AM ORC? U HATE DOORS? NO, U ONE WHO HATE PIE? DID AS-MOO DIE- US EAT UR PIE? THAT WHY U HATE PIE? AM VERY SAD FOR U AS UR BARN HOME HAVE NO DOOR AND THE COW MAN EATTED UR PIE"


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Those are neat, I just hate the paizo hob pic..just hate , hate hate it.

I agree. The Paizo drawings of Hobgoblins just look so...unimpressive. I love how they look in 3.5e though, and I have been fine with the fluff of the race no matter which setting I'm going with.

Scarab Sages

Icyshadow wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Those are neat, I just hate the paizo hob pic..just hate , hate hate it.
I agree. The Paizo drawings of Hobgoblins just look so...unimpressive. I love how they look in 3.5e though, and I have been fine with the fluff of the race no matter which setting I'm going with.

No, they look downright goofy. The 3.5 pic however is most excellent.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Hey, Mikaze and Icyshadow. I have an idea. Lets collaborate on a non-orc PDF and offer it up for people to download.

If you guys do this, please let me know.


Kegluneq wrote:
And please tell the Chaos-One that I will not acknowledge him further.

Awesome plan. Render yourself flat-footed to your enemies.

That's why order will, sooner or later, crumble. They have "principles" and will give up advantages, or accept disadvantages, to stick to them.

Kegluneq wrote:


He was warned. Mockery of Asmodeus is prohibited by Chelaxian law, but mockery of Abadar belies ignorance of Truth.

Law, I ignore, and truth is only true within your reality. Which has its days numbered (and I'm not talking of a calendar here).

Your golden boy has a perfect copy of everything. How stupid. Best way to have outdated concepts. Evolutionary dead ends.

Plus, it's fun to have a country where a woman rules, but the state religion's deity is sexist, discriminating against chicks.


Mikaze wrote:
But why is it suddenly wrong to want quality material for those things? Why are we not allowed to want them?

Why are you saying other people shouldn't have what they want?

If orcs were changed from a chaotic evil monster race into a primitive warrior race, we don't have more niches filled, we just have orcs moved from one niche to another. There's now an unfilled chaotic evil monster race niche for which there is obvious demand from the playerbase. So Paizo creates a new one for that niche, the "bep". Then we'll hear all the same "genocide!" and "always chaotic evil is stupid!" declarations that people should not be allowed to want a chaotic evil monster race.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mikaze wrote:
Steven Tindall wrote:

I blame a certain forgotten realms ranger for this entire mess of bad guys being looked at as something other than cannon fodder or exp givers.

Certain races are evil by their make up and culture other wise where do the HEROES!! come in at. If all the green skins are singing com-by-ya and all the vampires are sparkly when they walk into the sunlight and all the dragons are wise sages of benevolence and salt water taffy where can heroes be heroes?

Oh boy, a Drizzt and Twilight reference.

Instead of assigning motives to other gamers for their preferences, why not simply ask them why they prefer certain things instead of taking potshots at them?

Personally, I've always hated the notion of inherently evil mortal races. It's always made me uncomfortable. I hate genocide. I hate the notion of entire races of sapient beings being tagged as alright to murder. But I sure as hell don't go around insulting gamers that do prefer their monster races as black hats. I just want some support for my game too, like they've gotten for decades.

And heroes can certainly be heroes in a world where you don't have entire races as evil just because they're members of that race. You can even have black-and-white morality in a setting where goblins, orcs, gnolls, medusas, etc. can be of any alignmnet, because such a setting still has ample room for truly evil villains, and Always Evil organizations.

You don't need to have genocide in order for heroes to be heroes.

I didn't mean to insult anyone and I'm sorry if you thought I was. I was trying to be humorous but after rereading my post I can see that it didn't translate as well as it sounded in my head.

To me as a player I have just always played as orcs and other monster races being evil and thus being cannon fodder.
I have no problem with a --->MYTHIC<--- race being the target of genocide. Just like it's part of the mythos that some races are always good or short or have annoying sigals swirling around their heads I just took it as a matter of course that orcs are ALWAYS evil, thus genocide for them is kindda like culling a over population of deer.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Icyshadow wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Those are neat, I just hate the paizo hob pic..just hate , hate hate it.
I agree. The Paizo drawings of Hobgoblins just look so...unimpressive. I love how they look in 3.5e though, and I have been fine with the fluff of the race no matter which setting I'm going with.
No, they look downright goofy. The 3.5 pic however is most excellent.

You would probably like the Look of the ones from Jade regents forest of spirits.

Scarab Sages

I have not seen those.


ANebulousMistress wrote:

Friends, outsiders, humanoids, lend me your ears.

The problem here is not that orcs are always evil, not that goblins are always evil, not even that hobgoblins are always evil. Yes, they say you're evil. They say I'm evil, too. It's an excuse to dismiss us as villains, obstacles, monsters.

But who is the monster? The colonists who invade native lands, slaying all who oppose and enslaving all who surrender? Or the hoard who takes back what was stolen from them, frees the slaves, and exacts vengeance against the colonists in a show of strength to ensure such invasions are never again carried out? Is it the lone predator who stalks the weak and infirm to strengthen the herd? Or is it the tall human woman with the crimson cloak, with shiny armor and longsword who slays the parents in front of their children for crimes real and imagined?

'Good' is nothing more than an excuse. It's a word that the monster hides behind when raising her hallowed longsword to smite the hoard that swarms to protect their children, their futures. 'Evil' is what they call us. 'Monster' is what they call us. Well, I say they will hide behind their words no longer. I say they are monsters as surely as us! And I call upon any of their number to dispute that. Not with blades or spears, not with excuses, but with real words. Words with meaning. Actual dialogue between monsters for they are no less monstrous than any of us.

I say they are the greater evil here. Even greater than me.

This is the story of Keldor/Skeletor.

He-Man and the "Masters" were totally the villains of the series.

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